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'Captain Crozier! Captain Crozier!': Videos show sailors sending off ousted USS Roosevelt commander with cheers
Stars and Stripes ^ | 3 April 2020 | Chad Garland

Posted on 04/06/2020 12:46:41 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo

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To: Chainmail

Zero Navy time, but 24 or so in the Army. I did sail the Panama canal once, USArmy vessel Runnymede, LSU2000.
Enlisted through field grade if that matters.
11 overseas tours, 7 has duty. Command from platoon to battalion and combined task force, and even in the army, unit manning is fouo in conus, class or higher when deployed.

Not sure why component matters to you, but hey, go army sink navy, brother.

From today’s headlines, the acting secnav foundered too.


81 posted on 04/07/2020 7:37:38 PM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: Mark17
I'd do a fly over for you! Glad your Group Commander 0-6 was a good guy, and C-141 pilot. I flew the C-141 (among other things). Loved it - the C-47 of our age. A classic workhorse.

When Brig Gen Chuck Yeager retired, he actually cried at the end of it because no one arranged a flyover for him. He said there wasn't even a sparrow in the air.

God bless you.

82 posted on 04/08/2020 2:54:07 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot
I went to Mountain Home as a 3 level in 68. We had F-4s, with 2 C-47s and two T-33s. After I went to Vietnam, the F-4s left, and were replaced by F-111s. I think they have all different kinds of aircraft now. After Vietnam, I went to Laughlin.

https://youtu.be/oloJfVWPlfI

They obviously built a new tower since I was there. We did not have the SOF in the tower. But, here are the T-6s flying around. My son just finished T-6 training about 2 weeks ago. 👍

83 posted on 04/08/2020 3:23:26 AM PDT by Mark17 (Father of US Air Force Officer in pilot training. Flew the DA-20 and T-6. One more aircraft to go.)
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To: Manly Warrior
OK, Manly - impressive resume, no question.

Mine is similar: Marine enlisted until commissioned, retiring as LtCol. Served in combat in RVN, commanded battery to battalion, including time as CCO and CO Troops aboard USS Mobile, USS Dubuque, USS Frederick (generally a month or two at sea). Was also on navy staff as Naval Gunfire Officer, serving for short periods on LantFleet cruisers and destroyers during qualifications. Also spent lots of time overseas as you did.

So - we're at an impasse: you think Capt Crozier is bad guy and did the wrong thing and I think he's a great guy and a rare navy leader who did the right thing against a stubborn and slow-moving chain of command.

Shall we agree to disagree? Thank you for being that one-in-a-million who served his country with great distinction.

84 posted on 04/08/2020 4:37:52 AM PDT by Chainmail (Remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence)
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To: Chainmail

Chainmail,

Never said he was a bad guy. He chose poorly and for reasons I cannot understand.

I see a carrier and carrier group as about the size of a division, maybe a corps, 12 to 30k personnel, floating city, mobile and fully equipped. And he was in port.

I’m thinking about a grunt platoon in the jungle or desert or mountains, with a combat medic, maybe few. No organic mobility or med, soldiers and Marines get sick, need surgery, etc. They await the next resupply or get a ride on a medevac, if mission/situation allows.

Even then, that doesn’t get sent to the platoon cdrs buddies or support staff in the clear if at all. Ops makes the call.

It seems that the captain cried foul, and that’s why he got fired. The big navy wasn’t moving fast enough?

He was on a floating city. No options? Okay.

Thanks for your service as well.

As a former trooper and NCO, I too had issue with the mentality of some officers regarding the troops. But having been both, in peace and combat, mission is first, troops always. Iow, an impossibility to achieve perfection without risking one, the other or both....

The burden of command. Lived for it, died a bit over it too.

As we both know, one aww shit costs at least 100 attaboys.


85 posted on 04/08/2020 4:53:49 AM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: Manly Warrior
I think that things would become clearer if you saw how navy staffs operate sometimes. Too many bosses, too many egos - and if just one is an obstacle, the whole logjam creates more delay.

As I understand it, Crozier's main obstacle was the Battle Group Commander on his own ship - meanwhile he's watching the rapid spread aboard a large box with a single air handling system.

Navy ships are unique in another way: everybody is a specialist. Most sailors undergo rigorous training in their specialties before they're assigned to a carrier and both the nuclear-powered ship and the complex air group needs each one of them to perform or the consequences will be grave.

I used to evaluate ship's COs as "liking Marines or hating Marines" (about a 1:3 ratio in practice) but the real difference was Imperial Commander vs leader of men and from what I have seen and read, Crozier was of the latter group.

86 posted on 04/08/2020 5:04:49 AM PDT by Chainmail (Remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence)
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To: Mark17
I remember the F-111 well. I wanted to fly one out of pilot training. Back then, we all flew the T-37 and then the T-38.

Congrats to your son. You should be very, very proud. And a special thanks to a Vietnam vet.

87 posted on 04/08/2020 5:25:53 AM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: Manly Warrior

Yes it was in port but that does not mean they could not have told him to stay off it.


88 posted on 04/08/2020 5:43:58 AM PDT by Stingray51
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To: Chainmail

Still, I don’t have specific knowledge of the usn, but joint or army likely is similar.

All suffer from intent/execution lag and inexact coms/understanding.

That doesn’t give a subordinate CDR cause to go nearly public, but rather use the chain of command and IG channels.

The chief of naval ops, cheif of staff, secnav and secdef apparently think so too.

Regards.


89 posted on 04/08/2020 7:18:16 AM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: SkyPilot
My son likes the Army. That’s why he joined the Air Force. 😁🤪 Actually, he would like to provide close air support to the Army. He doesn’t know yet, how the operation goes. Will he fly a close air support mission one day, and Reconnaissance the next? He doesn’t know yet, but he should know soon enough. 👍
90 posted on 04/08/2020 7:28:07 AM PDT by Mark17 (Father of US Air Force Officer in pilot training. Flew the DA-20 and T-6. One more aircraft to go.)
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To: Manly Warrior
You have more faith in the Chain than I do..And Capt Crozier tried doing it the right way first, via that Chain. But as he saw it, things weren't moving fast enough and so far all of his directions were "continue the mission and carry on".

I have gone around the Chain a couple of times and survived: that only works if you're absolutely sure that you're right and willing to suffer for it.

91 posted on 04/08/2020 7:39:40 AM PDT by Chainmail (Remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence)
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To: Chainmail

I hear you.

The chain as a whole works, but it’s cumbersome and subject to”the doesn’t stop with me, as I take no risk” mentality.

One of the reasons I retired.


92 posted on 04/08/2020 8:28:51 AM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: Manly Warrior

Just about the same reason that I retired - a lot of stupidity and backdoor crap. I discovered that the foundation document for the acquisition of all types of ammunition was drastically (70%) reduced thanks to a cooked “study” by an outside contractor. When I voiced my concern, I was told that “I was a loose cannon that needs to be lashed down” and told to butt out. We paid for it in Afghanistan and Iraq.


93 posted on 04/08/2020 1:16:08 PM PDT by Chainmail (Remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence)
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To: Chainmail

Been retired since 07, worked contact for a bit, I f you ever watched Benghazi, that seemed to be spot on as to treatment by the official types.

Not sure how it works in the corps, but my engineer manager seemed to like to send me oconus every other year, while REMFs sat in the same desk chair indefinitely, then told me I’d not be selected for outright bn command, as I was too old....

But otherwise I lived in he troops and my wife finally reminded about who I slept with and who’s children the kids upstairs were.

My first 1SG told me in 1984 that I’d know when it was time.... James E Hudson, great NCO. He was right.

I’m only 58.5 yo, so living life for my family and my savior. Still healthy, other than a few boo-boos and osteoarthritis courtesy of life.

I hope you are well.
Semper Fidelis, Semper Paratus.


94 posted on 04/08/2020 7:46:06 PM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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To: Manly Warrior
Sounds like they wasted a great asset - and it sounds like Top Hudson (and your wife) had it right. Oddly, my idiot regiment commander also torpedoed my career and then said that I was "too old to be a colonel" (49)!

We served our country with energy, imagination, selflessness, and love.

Congratulations on a fine career!

Hope you and your family weather the virus well and thrive.

Semper Fi!

95 posted on 04/09/2020 4:19:01 AM PDT by Chainmail (Remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence)
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To: Delta 21

BINGO!

The Captain, one of the good old boys, sent a five page letter to 20 plus people.

How can that be a good thing?


96 posted on 04/09/2020 4:24:14 AM PDT by Maris Crane
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To: Chainmail

Well, Sr said I was a pain in the arse, and they were correct.

Same to you and yours.


97 posted on 04/10/2020 6:55:43 AM PDT by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War")
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