Posted on 10/03/2022 8:02:44 AM PDT by JonPreston
Your personal guesses of how Trump would have reacted to Russia invading Ukraine and starting a major European war are not very important, it is OK to mention your opinion, but it is only your personal speculations on complicated Presidential war decisions that never happened.
Why TF do you care so much about a corrupt country 5000 miles away that you probably couldn’t find on a map in 2021? You took the time to pour through this thread to copy posts from a freeper who happens to disagree with you about Ukraine. Do you not have a life? It’s just f’ing sad to see FR devolve into such petty squabbling. We should be uniting as we stand on the precipice to WWIII.
Who are “the Russians posting on these threads?” Or is that just a euphemism for “ppl who don’t agree with you about supporting a war in a corrupt country 5000 miles away?”
Are you drinking? Look at what you posted. It’s 🤡 clownish.
There literally are people here who admit it. Try NorseViking, for starters.
Straw man. Obnoxious straw man.
All the world’s scientists say we have man made global warming.
That’s probably good enough for you.
“Why TF do you care so much about a corrupt country 5000 miles away that you probably couldn’t find on a map in 2021?”
Oh, I know where Ukraine is. I was just across the water from it. We spied on Ukraine, among other locations.
And my concern is not for Ukraine, per se; but for its people who are fighting to repel an existential threat to their homes and families.
This was an unwarranted and unjustifiedd attack by Russia.
I’ve said before here on FR, that if China attacked Russia under the same flimsy pretext I’d be supporting the Russian people in THEIR defense of their homes and families.
As for my asking for proof for a comment made by another FReeper, maybe you should read some more of these threads, because the pro-Russia side asks for links and proof all the time.
Ok just for the sake of argument what do you believe is the reason for Russia’s invasion?
“All the world’s scientists say we have man made global warming.
That’s probably good enough for you.”
You’re joking, right? I mean, how does that even equate?
BTW: I do not subscribe to the Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) scam. Mother nature does just fine all by herself.
“Ok just for the sake of argument what do you believe is the reason for Russia’s invasion?”
The oldest reason in the book: Acquisition.
Pointing out that your opinion is just an opinion, that it is speculation about how events would have happened, but that never happened, but how they could have happened, is not a straw man.
I’m sure that may play a part. Is it worth risking a nuclear war over? Perhaps the death of hundreds of millions of people?
You are now officially arguing with yourself. Please, by all means, continue. Have fun.
America and NATO are not doing anything wrong, so there is no reason for us to surrender to Russia’s demands, and we sure can’t submit under the threat of Russia nuking us.
“I’m sure that may play a part. Is it worth risking a nuclear war over? Perhaps the death of hundreds of millions of people?”
So, it will never stop. Country A, which has nukes, says it will nuke Country B unless Country B gives Country A what it wants, justified or not. All it has to do is wax indignant and wave the nuclear threat, and Country B gives up. Then, there will be another country who is threatened, and another; until there are no countries left, but Country A.
It’s simplistic, but the point is valid.
For a hungry bully forever needs feeding; and will continue to prey on others until it is stopped; because it is never sated, and will continue to feed unless it IS stopped.
There was a saying way back in the day — perhaps before your time; but I remember it quite well — that it was “Better (to be) Red, than Dead.” I never subscribed to such a sentiment. The history of Red (communism) has shown us the folly of that sentiment. Just as those who appeased Nazi Germany, convincing themselves that, “It can’t happen here; it can’t happen to us. Man has progressed beyond that.”
Well, sad to say, Man has NOT progressed beyond that, because peace is the aberration, and war and conflict and conquest is the norm. Civilization is but a thin and fragile scab atop the festering sore of barbarism that is present in ALL people, though institutions and rules of law seek to keep that barbarism in check.
Throughout history there have been Reds and Nazis and Mongols and Huns and countless other dogmas and tribes that have slaughtered and oppressed their way across the vastness of the globe...UNTIL THEY WERE STOPPED.
So, you would be willing to have a nuclear war to stop Russia from taking all or part of Ukraine. Really? I seem to remember an old saying, “pick your battles”. In investing there is a similar notion called risk/reward ratio. When risking a lot there should be a lot to gain or lose whatever the case may be. Losing some or part of Ukraine does not justify the risk of global annihilation for most thinking people. Now if Russia started to take more at some point they would have to be stopped by any means necessary. There is no evidence that that will happen. I understand what you are saying but I would rather in this instance contain Russia. Make it hurt. Make them pay a heavy price for what they have done and by all reports we have already done that. Now we need to move toward peace and de-escalation.
“So, you would be willing to have a nuclear war to stop Russia from taking all or part of Ukraine. Really?”
It’s not about Ukraine; it could be about almost anyone. But, you don’t understand that.
As for nukes, I am not a “First Strike” guy, unless we have no alternative. In other words, I do not advocate a first strike unless the threat against us is truly existential, and not just existential on a theoretical level.
BTW: It’s Putin that that has been ranting and raving about nukes. Hell, within the first week or so of this war he placed the Russian nuclear forces on high alert, and that was BEFORE we did anything other than verbally condemn the invasion.
“In investing there is a similar notion called risk/reward ratio. When risking a lot there should be a lot to gain or lose whatever the case may be.”
I know about risk/reward in investing. That’s one of the reasons I retired comfortably.
“Now if Russia started to take more at some point they would have to be stopped by any means necessary. There is no evidence that that will happen.”
No evidence? Have you not followed Russian history since 1945? It de facto annexed Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, East Germany, and Romania, all under the Soviet hegemon. Hell, just within the last 30 years Russia has invaded Chechnya (twice), Georgia, and Ukraine (twice). The excuse in all of them? To protect “Russians” in those areas. In 2014 Russia grabbed Crimea. In 2022 it grabbed eastern Ukraine. It has designs on taking Transnistria. It has made threatening remarks against the Baltic states.
“I understand what you are saying but I would rather in this instance contain Russia. Make it hurt. Make them pay a heavy price for what they have done and by all reports we have already done that.”
Yes, and we’ve done all that without waving the nuclear saber. So, you see, Russia CAN be stopped without the use of nukes. But if Russia starts the nuclear game, then that’s a different story.
You see, it is YOU who is fixated on nukes. It is YOU who premises your comments on “risk of nuclear war.” I personally do not think Putin is going to use nukes — oh, he’ll bluster and bluff; but at the end of the day I doubt he will go nuclear, because he knows Russia will cease to exist if he does. And even if he gave the order to go nuclear, I think his order would be disobeyed, and he would be deposed. Why? Because there is no existential threat to Russia, and cooler heads in Russia know that.
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