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Study: Neanderthals, Modern Humans Same Species
USA Today ^ | 12-26-2001 | Michael A. Stowe

Posted on 01/10/2002 5:42:43 AM PST by blam

Edited on 04/13/2004 1:38:56 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Humanity's first steps out of Africa along a path that led ultimately to dominion over the earth are subject to intense scientific debate. So is the role played by the Neandertals who roamed across Europe for 100,000 years before quietly disappearing. The two issues may well be related, and a University of Tennessee anthropologist reports statistical evidence that Neandertals and emerging modern humans likely interbred and evolved together.


(Excerpt) Read more at usatoday.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: americas; anthropology; archaeology; bering; clovis; crevolist; dillehay; economic; extinction; ggg; glaciation; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; history; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals; paleontology; pleistocene; preclovis; science; siberia
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To: HarryDunne
"Can anyone direct me to a good "Neanderthals for Dummies" or "Ancient Anthropology" site?"

See post #58.

61 posted on 01/11/2002 6:28:18 AM PST by blam
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To: exmarine
>If they breed together, then.....duh.

In pop science, nothing is that simple. For instance, there are usually said to be 13 species of finches in the Galapagos, with each species having a highly characteristic beak shape. But scientists have known for many years that these birds almost all inter-breed when circumstances require it. Usually they choose partners with similar beaks & eating habits, but it's not a physically driven, biochemical thing. They are still routinely described as separate species just because of the choices they make.

The world of evolution science is a wonderful world with quite a lot in common with, say, Apple Computer advertising...

Mark W.

62 posted on 01/11/2002 6:41:53 AM PST by MarkWar
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To: Varda
OOPS! I meant to say

follow "Neanderlinks" to the "talkorigins links page" to the link "Neanderthals and modern humans"

63 posted on 01/11/2002 11:31:40 AM PST by Varda
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To: glorgau
Neanderthals everywhere resent that. Apologize!
64 posted on 01/11/2002 12:54:34 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: MarkWar
The world of evolution science has alot in common with religion.

The finch beak example is a very poor one. The finch beak sizes are cyclical, they go back and forth from larger to smaller - it's all in their genome. That's something the evolutionists always fail to mention when they use finches as examples of speciation. It's not speciation - it's adaptation as proven by the cyclical nature of the change. They mate together because they are all finches.

Futhermore, a human cannot mate with a non-human and produce offspring. This is certain.

65 posted on 01/11/2002 2:42:35 PM PST by exmarine
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To: blam
Every now and then I encounter someone who I swear is a living Neanderthal -- they have the huge superorbital ridges above the eyes, one of the so-called traits of Neanderthals.

But, what I really find amusing is when people, especially women, use "Neanderthal!" as an epithet against men, perhaps forgetting, or perhaps not realizing in the first place, that half of all Neanderthals were women.

66 posted on 01/11/2002 2:46:39 PM PST by Jay W
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To: bimbo
As much as I understand the PC imperative of an Academic and his detestation of all things violent; and I know how wonderful is his theory that the ancients "likely interbred and evolved together" - "made love," as it were, it is more likely that the opposite occurred: They "made war" and the Cro-magnons wiped out the more dim-witted Neanderthals. Academics never quite give up their agenda, even as it is contradicted by their own research.

I got the very same impression reading this article. It sounded like Kramer was "backing-in" his theory to conform with PC notions that are still alive and well in academia these days. There was an interesting documentary on the Discovery Channel a few months ago about Neanderthals and early Man and the consensus was that Man starved and hunted the Neanderthals out of existence. No professional field is safe from PC.

67 posted on 01/11/2002 3:16:42 PM PST by WRhine
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To: medved
See reply #56, that's the image I was trying to post (blam fixed it for me).
68 posted on 01/11/2002 11:25:58 PM PST by Ultima Thule
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To: blam
Thanks a lot for fixing that image. I'm still HTML-impaired. BTW, I always read your archaeology posts with the greatest interest.
69 posted on 01/11/2002 11:30:52 PM PST by Ultima Thule
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To: medved
"Neanderthals are supposed to have died out 50,000 years ago; another one of these standard time frames based upon projecting present conditions and processes into the distant past. "

I think Neanderthal skeletons as recent a 26,000 years ago have been found.

70 posted on 01/12/2002 7:40:36 AM PST by blam
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To: blam
Bump
71 posted on 01/12/2002 7:42:57 AM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: MarkWar
Evolution On Fast Track: Finches Adapt To Climate
72 posted on 01/12/2002 7:47:40 AM PST by blam
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To: Orual; blam

73 posted on 01/12/2002 7:48:04 AM PST by dighton
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To: MarkWar
Evolution On Fast Track: Finches Adapt To Climate
74 posted on 01/12/2002 7:50:08 AM PST by blam
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To: dighton
#73: My son, at last I've found you.


75 posted on 01/12/2002 7:54:52 AM PST by Orual
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To: jlogajan
Typically any separation either by "choice" or geographical dislocation usually results in speciation. It's genetical isolation which tends to result in reproductive differences.
76 posted on 01/12/2002 7:55:35 AM PST by garbanzo
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To: blam; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs
bumpin' the topic, with a reprise from another.
Neanderthals matured faster than humans
Associated Press
April 28, 2004
A new study suggests that Neanderthal children blazed through adolescence and on average reached adulthood at age 15... [P]aleontologist Fernando V. Ramirez Rozzi... with the National Center for Scientific Research in Paris, based his study on analysis of Neanderthal teeth... "It's a very exciting paper," said anthropologist Katerina Harvati of New York University. "Our current understanding of Neanderthals is that they're brutish and stupid, even though it turns out they have larger brains on average than ourselves"... For more than 100,000 years, Neanderthals roamed across a vast region from Spain to southern Russia and western Asia, overlapping with anatomically modern man for several thousand years... Harvati said their quick maturation rate may have been an adaptation to a harsh environment that decreased their life span and made it important for youngsters to reach sexual maturity quickly... Erik Trinkaus of Washington University in St. Louis said he's skeptical of the research. Human growth varies widely within a population, he said. In fact, Rozzi's study includes some Neanderthal teeth that took as long to develop as modern human teeth. University of Illinois at Chicago anatomy professor Jay Kelley said he's also concerned about making conclusions based on what are essentially assumptions about Neanderthal tooth growth.
Just kidding about the dentistry. What Rozzi is trying to prove is the *blind belief* that Neandertal was inferior and driven to extinction by our ancestors. IOW, it's more GIGO. If Rozzi were a dentist -- or for that matter, hadn't received his paleontology degree from the University of Disneyland -- he'd be aware of this:
The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve
Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]

77 posted on 07/24/2004 3:23:51 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

78 posted on 09/14/2005 11:16:58 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

79 posted on 09/14/2005 11:18:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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search Discover for Neanderthal

80 posted on 09/15/2005 7:50:34 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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