Posted on 06/28/2018 7:29:59 AM PDT by Theo
Hillsong Church has, over the years, hardly avoided the limelight, often finding itself at the center of hotly-contested debates. Now one of its biggest leaders is running headlong into the creation debate.
Joel Houston, eldest son of the Sydney-based church’s founders, lead musician in the worship band Hillsong United, and co-pastor of Hillsong Church in New York City, tweeted Monday that “evolution is undeniable.”
(Excerpt) Read more at faithwire.com ...
sigh! They get their knowledge of God from where?
That God is Creator isn’t at issue. That’s settled. If you know God that is not in question.
So the argument is about tools and methods. “How” God did it.
When you watch something unfold toward a purpose, call it what you want, but God is there all the way through.
As a developer myself, your statement runs the risk of saying God leaves bugs in the code :) I doubt he needs a QA team.
Context—things evolve, they change and adapt, I DON’T believe in evolution as a theory of SOURCE, I believe it’s merely a pattern of nature—created by God, reflecting Nature’s desire for renewal, survival, new life—from, through and ultimately to—God.
He seems to be saying that living things evolve within its own animal group which is absolutely true (ex. wolves, dogs, etc.). And becsue he acknowledges that evolution is NOT "The Origin of the Species" he seems to be denying Darwinism which requires "evolution" from one animal group to another which is a scientific fiction.
Brutha Houston should take a shy at reading Genesis sometime. It tells exactly how Creation was completed in six 24 hour length days. And Houston needs to be cautioned that God MEANS every word, just as He MEANS every word of Revelation chapter 20 thru 22.
https://twitter.com/joelhouston/status/1011309427192942592
In this later tweet he seems to be explaining himself seemingly saying that living things evolve within its own animal group which is absolutely true (ex. wolves, dogs, etc.).
And becsue he acknowledges that evolution is NOT “The Origin of the Species” he seems to be denying Darwinism which requires “evolution” from one animal group to another which is a scientific fiction.
It is really quite simple. One can prove that without an external creator who is actively involved with our universe, the universe literally falls apart. It can be shown that every theory of equations that we can derive from observations will be a differential theory, i.e. given a current state, future states can be predicted.
So the only way for us to understand what is going on in the Universe is for the Creator to tell us His plan, or at least as much of his plan as we need to know. He has done this in the Hebrew Bible written in Hebrew and Aramaic. It focuses on the 7000 year “Salvation Plan” which appears to involve replacing the 1/3 of the Angelic beings who have “fallen” with decedents of Adam and Eve who are “chosen” and believe in the Salvation Plan and keep Elohim’s commandments.
In The Book of Daniel, we are told that “knowledge shall increase” near the end to the first 6000 years. That is now. In the past 70 years, Gordon Spencer-Brown discovered the “Laws of Form” and Burkhard Heim formulated a 12 dimensional quantized theory of everything.
The “Laws of Form” tells us that a Universe can be created by drawing a boundary in a space to distinguish inside from outside. From this, one can derive algebras consisting of three discrete kinds of numbers: real, imaginary, and complementary. The concept of a discrete but possibly endless, series of “steps” and the concept of “memory” fall out naturally. This provides everything that one needs to construct computational “machines” such as Turing Machines. In the past 70 years it has been proven that a Turning Machine can compute anything that is computable.
This would all be abstract theory, except that we can now see what the Creator meant when He wrote: “GEN1:02 And the earth was without form, and void;” He literally meant before he created the first “Form” as in the first step in the “Laws of Form”. The second witness to this is when Wisdom in recorded saying: “PRO8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:”
So we can conclude that the Universe is a like computing machine, and that it uses object-oriented constructs, “each one after its kind”. So we can roughly say that our “bodies” are the finite-state machine, our “souls” are the Turing Tape upon which are lives are recorded, and out “spirit” is our connection to the Creator and His Plan.
Now we get to the Heim Extended Quantum Field Theory to describe the physical universe. It is based on four axioms, each of which can be derived from the Laws of Form. The most obvious one is quantization of area, that comes from drawing a circle on the deep. The Biblical confirmation of Heim’s Theory comes from the fact that his 12 dimensions are organized in groups which match the 12 Tribes of Israel grouped by their birth mothers in their birth order. As an added confirmation, the Tribe of Judah is associated with the Time dimension.
In addition, the cosmology of the Universe derived from Heim’s Theory matches the cosmology the Hebrew mystics derived from the Written and Oral Torah. They said that the Ein Sof created the universe as three books: number, letters, and communication. Heim says the universe was created as three concentric spheres that grew and they were marked up into smaller and smaller areas (metrons). Heim’s Theory says that about 15 billion years ago, the universe got big enough, and the metrons small enough so that “let there be light” happened. The Rabbis say that 15 billion years ago the universe entered its current grand cycle.
So now we have established that the Hebrew Bible is a revelation of the boundary conditions for the Universe we live in. Thar revelation appears to be recorded in the form of an incredible hologram. So that depending on how one “looks” at it, one gets different revelations of what is going on.
In the plain text, we have “prophecies” that we know have happened. Isaiah recorded the name of Cyrus the Great 150 years before Cyrus was born, and said that he would conquer Babylon, how he would do it, what would be going on in the Palace when he did it, and the fact that he would authorize the rebuilding of the Temple at Jerusalem, and when he would do it.
The association of Cyrus the Great and Donald J. Trump comes with the fact that all of this is described in Isaiah 45, and Trump is the 45th President. When you add in the gematria and numerology associated with Donald Trump, for example, he was inaugurated when he was 70 years, 7 months, and 7 days old in the Hebrew year 5777. Hours of YouTube videos have been devoted to this.
When one adds in the additional coding in the Bible it really gets good! Take all the letters of the Hebrew Bible in a line and wrap them around a cylinder of various dimensions and one can see “tables” that contain related words that are conceptually connected. In the last 70 years, we have developed computer programs that can do this in a virtual manner. There are books that have been written about the Equal Letter Skip (ELS) codes in Isaiah 53 which describes the Messiah’s appearances on Earth.
Several years ago, before the 2016 election, TheCodeSearcher.com translated the phrase “Hillary Is Corrupt” into Hebrew and searched for it. He got a hit in the Book of Deuteronomy! IIRC, “email interview” had the same skip and was next to the key phrase. The year 2016 was in the table. “D Trump Wins”, “Hillary Steals” and “Seth Rich Murder” were also in the table. There is more, but if the hairs on you neck are not standing up by now, there is no hope.
So the Bible tells us what is really going on and that is why scripture is relevant to dismantling the criminal government cabals. We are not contending with flesh and blood, but with powers and principalities.
The Tanakh and particularly the Torah is a holographic record of the boundary conditions the Ein Sof established for all the events in the Universe focusing on the 7000 year salvation plan. The Gematria and Equal Letter Skip (ELS) coding tell us of the importance of the ending of Hebrew year 5777 and the start of Hebrew year 5778.
For me, the key verse is not in the Torah, but in the “Tweets” of King Solomon. Wisdom is explaining the creation of the world, and she says:
PRO8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
God. KING JAMES BIBLE TOUCH - KJV (Kindle Locations 26322-26323). Kindle Edition.
This verse tells us that the Ein Sof used the “Laws of Form” revealed to George Spencer-Brown around 1957 to create the Universe by making the first distinction between inside and outside, i.e., drawing a circle on the face of the deep. This is why Genesis starts with Bet.
The Law of Forms provide the foundation for the Universe as an accounting system based on complex whole numbers. It explains why naming is important to the Ein Sof. Introduces the concept of the cross, as in crossing a boundary. It explains memory (and Elohim remembered Noah), oscillation (there was evening and there was morning), and mapping. Everything needed to support the Salvation Plan: “And Abraham believed Elohim and it was accounted to him as righteousness.”
The amazing thing is that The Laws of Form naturally result in three types of numbers: real integers, imaginary integers, and complementary integers. So the Trinity manifests very early in the process of creation.
Since it takes at least two dimension to form a boundary, the Law of Forms explains why Burkhard Heim, in 1948, assumed quantization of area, he was able to drive a seventh degree equation which describe the Universe as starting as three spheres, or as the Sages say, three books: Number, Text, and Communications.
So we stand at the point in history when knowledge has increased so that we can understand how the Ein Sof made the world, and that it is quite literal to say that He did it by writing the Torah and that the Tanakh records the final vessel that the Potter crafted.
DAN12:04 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
God. KING JAMES BIBLE TOUCH - KJV (Kindle Locations 35487-35488). Kindle Edition.
The Book of Daniel has been unsealed. The wise would do well to heed its prophetic warnings.
You are, in essence, demanding a snapshot of change. That isn't possible.
The only "snapshots" we have are fossils. Fossils of individuals. And no fossil of an individual can show that individual "morphing" into something else.
However, the fossil record clearly indicates the presence of a multitude of transitory forms down through time.
Regards,
The account in Genesis is actually a pretty good description of the creation of the universe as understood by current science, as someone might explain it to a bronze age goat herder. The fun part is, what we know now of the universe is probably a lot closer to the understanding of the bronze age goat herders than it is to God's actual of his universe. We have a lot to learn.
40 years in IT.
NEVER seen software that improves and develops itself to any major degree.....always takes outside force from programmer/developer for major changes......
Of course, God could write such software, and I know developers are working on it.......
But it ain’t here yet........
But did they evolve into something else or go extinct?
The Bible says that death entered this world through Adam’s sin.
How again, does the ‘theory’ of evolution work unless this is a lie?
And if it is a lie, you might as well toss the whole Bible...
The answer to that queston is: Yes!
Regards,
So Will I (100 Billion X)
Words and Music by Joel Houston Benjamin Hastings & Michael Fatkin
© 2017 Hillsong Music Publishing CCLI: 7084123
VERSE 1
God of creation
There at the start
Before the beginning of time
With no point of reference
You spoke to the dark
And fleshed out the wonder of light
CHORUS 1
And as You speak
A hundred billion galaxies are born
In the vapour of Your breath the planets form
If the stars were made to worship so will I
I can see Your heart in everything You’ve made
Every burning star
A signal fire of grace
If creation sings Your praises so will I
VERSE 2
God of Your promise
You don’t speak in vain
No syllable empty or void
For once You have spoken
All nature and science
Follow the sound of Your voice
CHORUS 2
And as You speak
A hundred billion creatures catch Your breath
Evolving in pursuit of what You said
If it all reveals Your nature so will I
I can see Your heart in everything You say
Every painted sky
A canvas of Your grace
If creation still obeys You so will I
BRIDGE
If the stars were made to worship so will I
If the mountains bow in reverence so will I
If the oceans roar Your greatness so will I
For if everything exists to lift You high so will I
If the wind goes where You send it so will I
If the rocks cry out in silence so will I
If the sum of all our praises still falls shy
Then we’ll sing again a hundred billion times
VERSE 3
God of salvation
You chased down my heart
Through all of my failure and pride
On a hill You created
The light of the world
Abandoned in darkness to die
CHORUS 3
And as You speak
A hundred billion failures disappear
Where You lost Your life so I could find it here
If You left the grave behind You so will I
I can see Your heart in everything You’ve done
Every part designed in a work of art called love
If You gladly chose surrender so will I
I can see Your heart
Eight billion different ways
Every precious one
A child You died to save
If You gave Your life to love them so will I
TAG
Like You would again a hundred billion times
But what measure could amount to Your desire
You’re the One who never leaves the one behind
-theistic evolution is inefficient, ineffective, and cruel
-theistic evolution undermines the significance of Christ's sinless life and sacrificial death on the cross, because if death preceded man, and was not the result of Adam's sin, then Adam's sin is a fiction. And if Adam's sin is a fiction, then we have no need of a savior.
-Jesus said "but from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female" Mark 10:6.
Ping to interesting discussion.
bump for later
Well said!
I don’t know his thinking, of course, but it seems he’s trying to justify - to those who don’t believe in creation - why he believes God created everything. And maybe trying to convince them that they don’t have to give up their belief in science.
I have no problem believing there was a collision - or many - but I don’t believe science will ever be able to explain it because creation was brought on by the mighty hand of God - all having to do with His power alone. It will remain a mystery, no matter how many theories evolve.
Who knows how long it took? I know we’re told 6 days, but we are also told that a thousand years is as a day for Him. So scientists won’t convince me they have those ‘facts’, either. The measurement of time was given for man’s understanding - 6 days of work - worship and rest on the 7th day. We’re created to need this structure.
I look at it like this -
On the one hand, we have scientists — who are highly-educated by other men - who teach them what they admit are theories. They have their ‘facts’ - until they have their different ‘facts’....
On the other hand .. God never changes His facts - which is also known as Truth - although creation is ongoing because He’s still at work (which is scripturally sound). Yes, this requires faith that what He has told us simply is.
For myself, I don’t have to know the how’s and why’s — but human nature makes us curious and we try to figure things out. Understood.
Otherwise, I’m content in holding to what I believe to be the truth, by faith. And I am in complete amazement whenever I look up to the heavens and truly understand His hands ARE still at work - and it’s all in control - as He has said.
- and the theories of man are just that, theories - which in my opinion are a distraction from the Truth.
One day I will know. For now, I’m only getting a glimpse as if ‘looking through a dark glass’.
I agree. In fact, the word translated “days” In Exodus 20:11 (yom) actually is translated many different ways in the bible. In fact, here is the list of different translations in the NASV:
This word Yom, is also the Hebrew word used in the creation account. And, as your reference to Bible Hub shows, the definition in Strong’s Concordance is #3117. (No matter which version of the Bible is used).
So that it is ambiguous exactly what the Bible means in the Genesis creation account. To me, only God knows what exactly He means, and you do NOT have to believe in evolution, in order to believe that a “day” in Genesis may be longer than 24 hours. As long as you don’t try to throw evolution, and humans being descended from apes into the mix, I don’t care which meaning He meant. When we get to Heaven, all these answers will come.
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