FReeper Canteen ~ Part XI of War in Ancient India ~ September 21, 2004

A Tribute to Hinduism ^ | LaDivaLoca

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

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ANCIENT WARFARE





Part XI: War in Ancient India

Accounts of Foreign Travelers to India

Coming to later times we have the account of Hiuen Tsang who notices a fleet of 3,000 sail belonging to the King os Assam. There is inscriptional evidence of the possession of a fleet under the Kakatiyas and the Cholas in South india. Marco Polo testifies to the huge size and efficient construction of Indian vessels while Yule in his Cathey refers to Rajput ships en route to China. Marco Polo, a famous Venetian traveler who visited India in 13th Century also visited Thane Port. The first chapter of his book which deals with India is almost devoted to shipbuilding industry in India. Friar Odoric of Pordenone, an Italian Monk who visited India in 14th Century, in his account of his voyage across the Indian Ocean, a mention is made of ships which can carry 700 people.

"Ships of size that carried Fahien from India to China (through stormy China water) were certainly capable of proceeding all the way to Mexico and Peru by crossing the Pacific. One thousand years before the birth of Columbus Indian ships were far superior to any made in Europe upto the 18th century."

(source: The Civilizations of Ancient America: The Selected Papers of the XXIXth International Congress of Americanists  - edited Sol Tax 1951).

Ludovico di Varthema (1503 A. D) saw vessels of 1,000 tons burden built at Masulipatnam. According to Dr. Vincent, India built great sized vessels from the time of Agathareids (171 B.C.) to the 16th century. And no wonder the Portuguese, when they first landed at the west coast, were carried away by the excellent Indian vessels. Later still, the Vijayanagar Empire, which had as many as 300 ports, had a powerful fleet. The naval commander was styled Naviyadaprabhu.

India has a coastline of about 6300 kms. Extensive new archaeological, epigraphical, sculptural and literary material has been added to our knowledge since the early decades of this century. Dr. Radha Kumud Mookerji's Book Indian Shipping - A History of the Sea-Borne Trade and Marine Activity of The Indians From The Earliest Times published in 1912 Orient Longmans ISBN 8121509165) is the most comprehensive study of Indian Navigation up to that period. We now know that many ports on both Eastern and Western Coast had navigational and trade links with almost all Continents of the world. There are many natural and technological reasons for this. Apart from Mathematics and Astronomy, India had excellent manufacturing skills in textile, metal works and paints. India had abundant supply of Timber. Indian - built ships were superior as they were built of Teak which resists the effect of salt water and weather for a very long time. 

"The art of Navigation was born in river Sindhu 6000 years ago. The very word navigation is derived from Sanskrit word Nav (or Nav-ship) Gatih."

Lieut. Col. A Walker's paper: "Considerations of the affairs of India" written in 1811 had excellent remarks on Bombay-built ships. He notes, "situated as she is between the forests of Malabar and Gujarat, she receives supplies of timber with every wind that blows." Further he says, "it is calculated that every ship in the Navy of Great Britain is renewed every twelve years. It is well known that teakwood built ships last fifty years and upwards. Many ships Bombay-built after running fourteen or fifteen years have been brought into the Navy and were considered as stronger as ever. The Sir Edward Hughes performed, I believe, eight voyages as an Indiaman before she was purchased for the Navy. No Europe-built Indiaman is capable of going more than six voyages with safety."

He has also further noted that Bombay-built ships are at least one-fourth cheaper than those built in the docks of England. Francois Balazar Solvyns, a Belgian/Flemish maritime painter, wrote a book titled Les Hindous in 1811. 

His remarks are, "In ancient times, the Indians excelled in the art of constructing vessels, and the present Hindus can in this respect still offer models to Europe-so much so that the English, attentive to everything which relates to naval architecture, have borrowed from the Hindus many improvement which they have adopted with success to their own shipping.... The Indian vessels unite elegance and utility and are models of patience and fine workmanship." 

(source: http://www.orientalthane.com/speeches/speech_2.htm).

Surprisingly, many earlier western traders and travelers have expressed the same views. Madapollum was a flourishing shipping centre. Thomas Bowrey, an English traveler who visited India during 1669-79, observes, " many English merchants and others have their ships and vessels yearly built (at Madapollum). Here is the best and well grown timber in sufficient plenty, the best iron upon the coast, any sort of ironwork is ingeniously performed by the natives, as spikes, bolts, anchors, and the like. Very expert master-builders there are several here, they build very well, and launch with as much discretion as I have seen in any part of the world. They have an excellent way of making shrouds, stays, or any other rigging for ships".

A Venetian traveler of 16th Century Cesare de Fedrici, while commenting on the East Coast of India has noted that there is an abundance of material for ship building in this area and many Sultans of Constantinople found it cheaper to have their vessels built in India than at Alexandria. 

Nicol Conti who visited India in 15th century was impressed by the quality Indians had achieved in ship building. He observes:

"The nations of India build some ships larger than ours, capable of containing 2,000 butts, and with five sails and as many masts. The lower part is constructed with triple planks, in order to withstand the force of the tempests to which they are much exposed. But some ships are so built in compartments that should one part be shattered, the other portion remaining entire may accomplish the voyage."

J. Ovington, Chaplain to the British King, the seventeenth-century English traveler, who visited Surat, wrote a book  A Voyage to Surat in the Year 1689. He was impressed by the skill of the Indians in ship-building and found that they even outshone Europeans. The timber used by the Indians was so strong that it would not ‘crack’ even by the force of a bullet so he urged the English to use that timber ‘to help them in war’. Indian Teak stood firmer than the English Oak, remarked Ovington. 

Thomas Herbert, a traveler who visited Surat in 1627, has given an interesting account of the arrival, loading and unloading of ships through small boats at Swally marine (Sohaly), a few kilometres away from Surat. He remarked that between September and March every year, the port of Sohaly presented a very busy and noisy scene for there came many ships from foreign lands. The merchants (baniyas) erected their straw huts in large numbers all along the sea coast, making the whole place thus look like a country fair. The merchants sold various commodities like calicoes, ivory, agates, etc. Many small boys engaged by the merchants were seen running about doing odd jobs. The English found that the small boats used and constructed by the natives could be of immense use. This was a definite gain for both nations. Boats and rafts were used as a means of conveyance for loading and unloading ships. There were about 4200 big and 4400 small boats. There were large-sized boats that could carry even elephants. The boats used by kings and nobles were designed to look artistic. Abul Fazl writes about the "wonderfully fashioned boats with delightful quarters and decks and gardens" 

 

Among the primitive Indian boats, the cattarmaran comes first. It consisted of three logs and three spreaders and cross lashings. The centre log was the largest, and pointed towards one end. Mainly fishermen used the cattarmaran for fishing. A little more skillfully made is the musoola boat, which has no iron fastening. It was mostly used in the Coromandel coast. Dr John Fryer says, "It is possible that the name musoola may be connected with Masulipatarn where boats seem to have been in use".

Another boat made in an indigenous manner was known as dingy. It was hollowed out from a single trunk. Lower down the Ganga, the name was applied to boats half-decked, half wagon-roofed and built of planks.

Purqoo was another type of boat described by Thomas Bowery. It plied between the Hooghly and Balasore. These boats were made very strong to carry ‘sufficient load’. They were also used for loading ships. they could remain in water for a long time without getting damaged. As compared to the purqoo, boora was a ‘lighter boat’ which rowed with 29 or 30 oars. These boats were also used for carrying saltpeter and other commodities.

(source: Coastal trade flourished with Europeans - By Pramod Sangar).

Sir John Malcolm writes"

"Indian vessels are so admirably adapted to the purpose for which they are required that, notwithstanding their superior science, Europeans were unable, during an intercourse with India for two centuries, to suggest or to bring into successful practice one improvement."

(source: Journal of Royal Asiatic Society, Vol. I). 

In the middle of the 18^th century, John Grose noted that at Surat the Indian ship-building industry was very well established, indeed, “They built incomparably the best ships in the world for duration”, and of all sizes with a capacity of over a thousand tons. Their design appeared to him to be a “a bit clumsy” but their durability soundly impressed him. They lasted “for a century”. 

Lord Grenville mentions, in this connection, a ship built in Surat which continued to navigate up the Red Sea from 1702 when it was first mentioned in Dutch letters as “the old ships” up to the year 1700.” Grenville also noted that ships of war and merchandise “not exceeding 500 tons” were being built” with facility, convenience and cheapness” at the ports of Coringa and Narsapore.  

Dr. H. Scott sent samples of dammer to London, as this vegetable substance was used by the Indians to line the bottom of their ships; he thought it would be a good substitute “in this country for the materials which are brought from the northern nations for our navy…There can be no doubt that you would find dammer in this way an excellent substitute for pitch and tar and for many purposes much superior to them.”

source: Decolonizing History: Technology and Culture in India, China and the West 1492 to the Present Day - By Claude Alvares  p. 68-69).

Alain Danielou (1907- 1994) son of French aristocracy, author of numerous books on philosophy, religion, history and arts of India has written:

"India's naval dockyards, which belonged to the state, were famous throughout history. The sailors were paid by the state, and the admiral of the fleet hired the ships and crew to tradesmen for transporting goods and passengers. When the British annexed the country much later on, they utilized the Indian dockyards - which were much better organized then those in the West - to build most of the ships for the British navy, for as long as ships were made of wood."

(source: A Brief History of India - By Alain Danielou  p. 106).

***

India became the first power to defeat a European power in a naval battle - The Battle of Colachel in 1742 CE.

A dramatic and virtually unknown past, in an area of bucolic calm surrounded by spectacular hills: that is Colachel, a name that should be better known to us. For this is where, in 1741, an extraordinary event took place -- the Battle of Colachel. For the first, and perhaps the only time in Indian history, an Indian kingdom defeated a European naval force. The ruler of Travancore, Marthanda Varma, routed an invading Dutch fleet; the Dutch commander, Delannoy, joined the Travancore army and served for decades; the Dutch never recovered from this debacle and were never again a colonial threat to India. 

 

   

The ruler of Travancore, Marthanda Varma, routed an invading Dutch fleet; the Dutch commander, Delannoy, joined the Travancore army and served for decades; the Dutch never recovered from this debacle and were never again a colonial threat to India. 

***

The Battle of Colachel in 1742 CE,  where Marthanda Varma of Travancore crushed a Dutch expeditionary fleet near Kanyakumari. The defeat was so total that the Dutch captain, Delannoy, joined the Travancore forces and served loyally for 35 years--and his tomb is still in a coastal fort there. So it wasn't the Japanese in the Yellow Sea in 1905 under Admiral Tojo who were the first Asian power to defeat a European power in a naval battle--it was little Travancore. The Portuguese and the Dutch were trying to gain political power in India at that time. Marthanda Varma defeated the Dutch in 1741. He was an able ruler. He established peace in his country - Travancore. It was a remarkable achievement for a small princely state.

(source: The Battle of Colachel: In remembrance of things past - By Rajeev Srinivasan - rediff.com and  http://www.kerala.com/kera/culture1.htm). For more refer to chapter on ).

For more information on Navy refer to chapters on Pacific,  Suvarnabhumi and Seafaring in Ancient India). 

Next Tuesday, Part XII of War in Ancient India

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

 

 

 

 

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[HopeandGlory]

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[Soaring Feather]

[MoJo2001]

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[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

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From the men in the Military and the Canteen

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

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[StarCMC]

	HAYASHI, SHIZUYA Private Shizuya Hayashi distinguished himself by extraordinary heroism in action on 29 November 1943, near Cerasuolo, Italy. During a flank assault on high ground held by the enemy, Private Hayashi rose alone in the face of grenade, rifle, and machine gun fire. Firing his automatic rifle from the hip, he charged and overtook an enemy machine gun position, killing seven men in the nest and two more as they fled. After his platoon advanced 200 yards from this point, an enemy antiaircraft gun opened fire on the men. Private Hayashi returned fire at the hostile position, killing nine of the enemy, taking four prisoners, and forcing the remainder of the force to withdraw from the hill. Private Hayashi’s extraordinary heroism and devotion to duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflect great credit on him, his unit, and the United States Army.   *HEDRICK, CLINTON M. Rank and organization: Technical Sergeant, U.S. Army, Company I, 194th Glider Infantry, 17th Airborne Division. Place and date: Near Lembeck, Germany, 27-28 March 1945. Entered service at: Riverton, W. Va. Birth: Cherrygrove, W. Va. G.O. No.: 89, 19 October 1945. Citation: He displayed extraordinary heroism and gallantry in action on 2728 March 1945, in Germany. Following an airborne landing near Wesel, his unit was assigned as the assault platoon for the assault on Lembeck. Three times the landing elements were pinned down by intense automatic weapons fire from strongly defended positions. Each time, T/Sgt. Hedrick fearlessly charged through heavy fire, shooting his automatic rifle from his hip. His courageous action so inspired his men that they reduced the enemy positions in rapid succession. When 6 of the enemy attempted a surprise, flanking movement, he quickly turned and killed the entire party with a burst of fire. Later, the enemy withdrew across a moat into Lembeck Castle. T/Sgt. Hedrick, with utter disregard for his own safety, plunged across the drawbridge alone in pursuit. When a German soldier, with hands upraised, declared the garrison wished to surrender, he entered the castle yard with 4 of his men to accept the capitulation. The group moved through a sally port, and was met by fire from a German self-propelled gun. Although mortally wounded, T/Sgt. Hedrick fired at the enemy gun and covered the withdrawal of his comrades. He died while being evacuated after the castle was taken. His great personal courage and heroic leadership contributed in large measure to the speedy capture of Lembeck and provided an inspiring example to his comrades. "If there be any glory in war, let it rest on the shoulders of men like these."   -- Audie Murphy   Thank you to every soldier, sailor, airman, marine and coast guardsman who has ensured that I have the freedoms I have today.  You are my heroes. You will not be forgotten.

Graphics and information  from the MOH website.

[4CJ]

Dang, chills run up by back - we will NEVER forget!

[StarCMC]

No, we won't.

[MeekOneGOP]

Mornin', everybody ! Happy [almost] Tuesday!

Have a cup while you Freep !

For those who prefer hot chocolate.....

[laurenmarlowe]

Good evening Tonk, thanks for the beautiful flowers. Thanks to the Men in the Military and the Canteen. Your valiant heroism keeps us safe.

[writer33]

Here is my thanks to the troops as well:


Greatest Generation
Self | 09/19/2004 | Chris Davis


Posted on 09/19/2004 6:42:44 PM PDT by writer33


On May 28, 2004, we dedicated a World War II Memorial in Washington, D.C. to the soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, and coasties. As Tom Brokaw wrote about the men and women serving during those years, he referred to them as the “Greatest Generation.” I often think about the fine soldiers that served during World War II and about my grandfather who served in the Army Air Corps. I often wonder about what it took to serve in such a historic time when so many people counted on the United States of America to help secure blessings of liberty to Europe and the world.

I think it took innumerable courage to fight in a conflict where so many lives were lost for liberty’s sake alone. I think it took strength, honor, and dignity to serve in the U.S. Armed Forces during that great five-year period. They branded America with the pride to say “Made in the USA.” Then, my thoughts drift to my father, serving during the Vietnam War. I think of how the war was described as a complete and utter failure during my school years, and I wonder how my father did it. How did he serve during such a scarred period in U.S. History? I know it was with honor, dignity, and courage. Just like the “Greatest Generation” served during World War II, and just like the men and women in Korea served with distinction.

On August 2, 1964, three North Vietnamese PT boats allegedly fired torpedoes at the USS Maddox, a destroyer located in the international waters of the Tonkin Gulf. This would begin the Vietnam War. It would begin President Lyndon Johnson’s mishandling of the war. In December of 1964, my father-along with the rest of the Fifth Special Forces-landed in Cam Rahn Bay as “advisors” to the South Vietnamese in the fight against communism. It was that simple. They were sent over there to train and help the Vietnamese resist the advancement of communism in Southeast Asia. It was the belief of the administration that by fighting this war we could stop the spread of communism, leaving it in China and Russia. The mistake of the Vietnam War fell into many parts. But the biggest mistake began in the White House under a liberal administration and President Johnson. This administration thought it was best to micromanage every little aspect of the war.

So, in 1965, the 1st Air Cavalry Division deployed to Vietnam and fought in the first conventional battle of the war in the Ia Drang Valley. These men and women, just like the “Greatest Generation,” went to serve their country and liberate an oppressed people under the communistic regime of Ho Chi Minh. These men fought off an enemy that was more than capable of handling themselves against intruders in their homeland. The Vietnamese had successfully defended their country against French invasion in the 1950’s and were confident. The battle of Ia Drang was an utter success despite the heavy casualties, despite the men that sacrificed their lives willingly to crush tyranny, and despite the negative media connotations about involvement in Vietnam. The 1st Air Cavalry Division made America proud. Americans just weren’t allowed to know it.

In 1966, America began bombing North Vietnam to cut off supplies coming in from Laos. That same year, the first protests began against the war. Some of these protestors were the men and women of the “Greatest Generation.” These “Greatest Generation” veterans, along with the media, began the cries that Vietnam wasn’t a real war. They tried to impugn the reasons for deploying American servicemen and women to Southeast Asia. And yet, the American soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines in Vietnam served with dignity, honor, and distinction. They still made America proud, whether the media would report it or not.

The Vietnam War was beginning to really heat up. In 1967, Operation Cedar Falls began. The U.S. Armed Forces uncovered a massive system of underground tunnels in the Iron Triangle. The outstanding men and women serving in this war were starting to break North Vietnam and communism. Of course, the old media still wouldn’t report the accomplishments that were occurring on a day to day basis in Vietnam. As far as Americans knew, this was the wrong war at the wrong time. The old media had been left unchallenged in their warped view of the world. That same year, Dow Chemical, makers of napalm, was banned from the University of Wisconsin campus. They weren’t allowed to recruit student to come and work for them. The root of liberalism was beginning to grow throughout the United States with the willing accomplices in the media.

In 1968, the Viet Cong launched the Tet Offensive. This was an absolute failure, even though there were heavy casualties to our American sons and daughters, fighting in an honorable war at an honorable time. The Viet Cong took massive amounts of casualties in their effort. It ended the Viet Cong’s reign in Vietnam and forced North Vietnam to seek aid from China and conduct the guerilla warfare that the Viet Cong had been so successful in doing in the past. Unfortunately-going unchallenged-CBS, NBC, and ABC didn’t see the battle that way. They reported the outcome of the battle as one of a failure, as a battle that showed the end of the war was no longer near. Nothing was further from the truth. But the protests continued and the media kept hammering away at the fine men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces.

Students across America began to form protests, women burned their bras, and liberalism had taken hold on campuses everywhere. Young liberals burned their draft cards, fled to Canada, and chanted, “Hell no. We won’t go!” With glee in their eyes, CBS, NBC, and ABC covered these warped individuals on a day to day basis. They reported the protestors vigorously as if to imply that the mainstream of America didn’t support the war in Vietnam. In their liberal fervor, they crammed liberalism down the throats of the Americans. And to make matters worse in 1969, news of the My Lai massacre reached America. There were silent celebrations in newsrooms everywhere as reason to pull out of the war in Vietnam. The media began to plant the seed that there was some kind of failed morality in Vietnam. They tried to paint our military as drug addicts and one without morals. The political winds began to blow against the men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces while they still served honorably in the fight against communism. The fine soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, and coasties fought more than just a war on communism. They fought an ideology as well. They returned home to chants of “baby killers.” They came back to an incensed media, a group of Americans that wished ill will on our servicemen and women, nevertheless, they served with honor, dignity, and courage in the right war at the right time.

In 1970, Henry Kissinger and Le Duc begin secret talks to end the war in Vietnam. In America, John Kerry and Jane Fonda begin to spew their communist hatred against America and the men and women of our Armed Forces, while appearing together in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. That same year the New York Times, going unchallenged, publishes the Pentagon Papers by Daniel Ellsburg, increasing the liberal hatred of the fine men and women of our military and the U.S. Government. Liberalism was steam rolling the traditional values accepted by a majority of Americans. It was creating the belief that this was the new truth in America. And it would get worse.

In 1971, John Kerry was part of the group, Vietnam Veterans Against the War, on which he testified to the Senate Committee of Foreign Relations against the very same men and women he served with in Vietnam. In part of his testimony, he states, “They wanted everything to do with the war, particularly with this foreign presence of the United States of America, to leave them alone in peace, and they practiced the art of survival by siding with whichever military force was present at a particular time, be it Viet Cong, North Vietnamese or American.” If that was true, then my question becomes: Why did so many Vietnamese wish to escape Vietnam during the withdrawal of our troops? They didn’t want to live under a tyrannical regime. It’s common knowledge that freedom is a God given right, and that people throughout the world wish to live in a free country. That’s why our men and women of the U.S. Military served in Vietnam. They were attempting to fee an oppressed people.

Liberals like John Kerry and Jane Fonda didn’t understand the basic concept of communism or freedom, because of their ignorance of human understanding. In their veined effort to end the war in Vietnam, they each made trips, meeting with the North Vietnamese and laughing at the soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, and coasties of America. In their traitorous efforts, they attempted to imply that Vietnam was a useless war that cost the lives of men and women in vein. With the help of the mainstream media, the unaware of America joined the bashing of our men and women. But they still served honorably in the right war at the right time. Men like John O’Neil’s testimony on Meet the Press went largely ignored by Americans with the help of the unchallenged mainstream media. Somehow, liberalism had managed to subvert a war that America was winning. And very few Americans knew it.

The slow withdrawal of our troops continued as the Vietnam War wound down. The men and women of the Vietnam War served honorably. Their cause was just. The fight against the spread of communism did work. If it weren’t for that war, communism would’ve continued to go unchallenged across Southeast Asia. The Vietnam War was a success until traitors like John Kerry and Jane Fonda came forward to keep communism alive. North Vietnam was ready to capitulate as testified by POW’s returning from the war years later. This became a lesson learned in later years as President Ronald Reagan broke the back of the Soviet Union in the destruction of communism. Only a small few communist nations remain: China, North Korea, Cuba, and Vietnam. In this failed ideology, they remain poverty sticken nations, nations that require aid from the United Nations to keep assure their survival in the world.

As I’ve learned, without help from my liberal educators, the Vietnam War was a pivotal point in history. It changed the way we fought communism. It embodied an American spirit to stand up for repressed people once again, and foiled communism in the years to come. The soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, and coast guard that served in that war served honorably. They served with dignity and courage like their predecessors in World War II and Korea. They lay a model for defeating communism in the world. They came home to spit on their faces and to chants of “murderers.” They didn’t come home to parades or salutations of congratulations. No one shook their hand, except maybe their loved ones, or invited them to speak in public. They were scorned because of liberalism and a partisan mainstream media. The media that are allowed their free speech by their service. This media forgot some and abandoned most. John Kerry and Jane Fonda stabbed them in the back, but they survived.

They came home and integrated into society. They became doctors and lawyers, carpenters, truck drivers, and business owners. Some suffered from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, but married and raised a new generation of American. A generation that grew up to history books that touted the failures of the Vietnam War, raised by Americans that fought communism, liberalism, and the mainstream media. They survived and were successful in their future endeavors. Their sons and daughters are proud of America. They believed in their cause and in Vietnam. They love their mothers and fathers, and our grateful for their service in the fight against communism. In their children’s eyes, they have become heroes to America. For waging a war against two ideologies and becoming successful, contributing Americans, they have become great Americans. And for standing up to a man-when their country needed them again-that should’ve been tried as a traitor and for sedition, they have become the “Greatest Generation.”

[docman57]

Hey Everyone,
I'm drinkin' a toast(coffee) to one and all, and to all who have gone before us, and most importantly, to those currently serving in harms way! Great posts everyone!

[AZamericonnie]

Thank you to every soldier, sailor, airman, marine and coast guardsman who has ensured that I have the freedoms I have today. You are my heroes. You will not be forgotten.

Ditto to say the least.

I have a question, the "War in India" thread is very intersting but what is the origin? Just curious. I am the hit and run Canteen poster I'd imagine! The thread starts so late my time, I post & go to bed. Goodnight all, God bless you, our troops, fellow FReepers and "God bless us every one" *L*

[SevenofNine]

OH S***

Drudge has developing item at this hour guys keep eye on Drudge tonight going be doozy
Bill Gertz reporting that Bin Laden glee club may start some terrorist attack on Day Dubya get reelect or possibty swearing in

This going be on Tuesday bulldog runs of Wash Times

BTW there is highspeed chase going down in SO CAL at this hour

Dude just got off 405 Freeway southbound going into Mission Viejo

[Spotsy]

Darkwing, I was so happy to see your cape and read your news that all is well with your wife. Yippee!!!!

[SevenofNine]

Whoa rack Israelis there is report off Hareetz wire that US gave 100 smart bombs to Israel

Rack itt

Breaking news off Kydto news wire report that US Oil prices going at this hour 46 to 50 dollar a barrel

DAMNNNN

[SevenofNine]

Whoa rack Israelis there is report off Hareetz wire that US gave 100 smart bombs to Israel

Rack itt

Breaking news off Kydto news wire report that US Oil prices going at this hour 46 to 50 dollar a barrel

DAMNNNN