I am a conservative - Long (Double secret vanity)

Rice08

[rice08]

I am a conservative, I think there is no more fitting place to post this than here at FR, the only caveat I will say is that this post has nothing to do with my handle (rice08)

 

To quote Charles foster Kane, I have a statement of principles on our country and the world as a whole, here is what I believe in no particular order:

 

 

-          Cut taxes whenever possible for any reasonable cause

-          Limit government spending, privatize when possible… You want Medicare? Here is a voucher for blue cross/blue shield, go nuts

-          Ronald Reagan was a great president and had a great deal to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union

-          Commies aren’t cool

-          The Chicoms are a real and strategic threat to the security of the United States and the world, I avoid “made in china” whenever humanly possible

-          Always lukewarm on “free trade” because you can call something free trade and it can be something else entirely (see “De-Regulation”)

-          I am strong supporter and believe in the *entire* constitution of the United States, not just certain amendments. that includes the 2^nd.

-          Judges should not legislate

-          Treason is real and exists today

-          Democrats have lost their way from the days of Truman

-          Education is a silver bullet for many of society’s problems ; that includes generous vouchers for all takers from any background (From home schooling to the church of frank) I don’t care

-          The MSM is liberal and so are our college campi

-          Freedom of religion is not freedom FROM religion and our great history of religious tolerance proves it

-          The UN and the EU have become corrupt and should be marginalized as institutions

-          The ACLU is a serious threat to this country

-          Lynn Stewart deserves to rot

-          The US Armed forces have been the greatest force for human freedom in the history of mankind.

-          Impeachment of Billary was a vindictive and political act but he was and is a dirtbag.

-          John McCain is a hero to this country but for McCain-Finegold alone deserves great scorn (not to mention his other RINO tendencies)

-          Hillary Clinton is a great political threat to this country

-          Saudi Arabia is not our friend

-          Drill everywhere

- Michael Moore isn’t a patriot

-          Invest in every kind of alternative fuel possible (that includes government investment as well)

-          At the very least have a cold hard look at the drug war

-          None of this 3-5 years for murder 2 crap, lock ‘em away

-          I support the death penalty but I won’t man the barricades for it

-          The war on terror is the most important issue of our time

-          Free peoples and free markets work better than any other form of human civilization, government must exist to protect the rights of the individual first and foremost against the sometimes evil nature of individuals

-          I think corporations should be good US citizens not members of some undefined and unequal global community (see free trade)

-          Iron clad and armed borders with a organized flow of honest immigrants from all corners of the earth are welcome. (I say this as a proud immigrant to this country)

-          The current Republican order in Washington is a virtual disgrace when it comes to the issues of spending and immigration

-          Wal-Mart is not evil except for their enabling of the PRC

-          Unions work when they understand and believe in the capitalist system of supply and demand

 

 

You will of course note that some hot button issues are missing. Well guess what, I am by most standards pro-choice, save your arguments. On top of that I couldn’t give two bottles of jack if two or 3 or 5 of anybody or anything got married while being officiated by their pet poodle. I am also a militant atheist who doesn’t give THREE bottles of jack what you believe in and would never dream of telling you what to believe about anything, that said, keep ID out of my face, thanks. I am not going to change in this regard and that isn’t the reason why I posted this.

 

My point is that all of my conservative friends and family believe in virtually this same platform and we all vote republican. The problem is that if a pro choice republican tried to run for national office with this long list of deeply held beliefs they are DOA due to the passionate and sincere beliefs of the conservative “base” . I am not telling anybody to abandon their faith or their beliefs, quite the opposite.

 

I am wondering if those reading this understand that the conservative revolution that has been brewing for 40 years is threatened because of this make or break issue. Not because moderating the party’s pro-life stance will attract a larger pool of voters but because it keeps good conservatives out of power, plain and simple.

 

Discuss

 

BT

 

 

 

 

[Casloy]

I don't want any abortions to happen, I have also come to terms with the incredibly personal nature of the act that I don't want any state entity getting involved.

So, let me see if I have this right. You'd rather see millions of babies die, than intrude on a personal decision. I believe that is called anarchy.

[rice08]

I don't want to view as me winning and you somehow losing, my point I think is that a nation on a good economic footing over the long term (with better education and so forth) leads to fewer abortions vs. whatever kind of insane nanny state hillary envisions.

[rice08]

No I would see otherwise conservative people with a conservative vison home and abroad win.

Let's put it another way, this is an argument I use against liberals when it comes to defending the republican "pro-life" position since say 1981 we had 8 years of the gipper, bush 1 and bush 2, 11 years of a republican house and a total of what, 8 years republican senate. Countless progress on the state level on governors and legislators.


what precisely has been done to reduce the number of abortions?

this is a hearts and minds issue, a MORAL issue if you will, not a legal one. Did Prohibition stop people from drinking?

an well educated person with a good job and a steady life is far far far far far less likely to not only get pregnant or get someone pregnant out of wedlock, they are far less likely to have an abortion.

to put it another way, what good is a RINO if all he manages to do is get the faithful out to vote on election day by promising something that he has no intention of delivering on.

[rice08]

I do like a drink now and again this is true (but I like to share) exactly what part of my "bilge" do you oppose? you UN Lovin' hillarycare pushin' something something

[Casloy]

this is a hearts and minds issue, a MORAL issue if you will, not a legal one

It's not a hearts and minds issue, it is a legal issue. You can pass a million laws and people will still do evil, but that doesn't mean you simply change the law. Kids will always be victims of sexual abuse, but that doesn't mean you rid yourself of the problem be eliminating the penalty for doing it. Using your logic one could even argue that if you legalized sex with children, there is less likelyhood the attacker won't kill his victim to cover his crime. That is the argument made by pro-abortionists, that somehow keeping it legal keeps it out of back alleys.

[rice08]

well keeping it legal does keep it out of back alleys but the argument about abortion isn't about order vs. anarchy.

my goal and your goal is for zero abortions to occure, so the question is do we create the kind of country where nobody wants one or keep marginalizing otherwise good conservatives over this issue and just stumble along hoping for something to happen?

Heck if Roe V. Wade is gone TOMORROW it's another 20 year of state by state legal battles, probably ending with a 50/50 split of states that do and don't allow abortions, so basically forcing people to take a grayhound who would otherwise not get one locally.

that's some great victory and in the mean time how many conservatives have gone down to defeat (or MUCH more likely gotten nowhere near power to begin with) because of this all or nothing view.

I want to state again that I don't want anyone to "give up" on this issue and that I also want no abortions to occure but I think the conservative movement as a whole and the republican party as a part of that movement will forever hurt it's objectives by dealing with it the way we have.

[Casloy]

how many conservatives have gone down to defeat

Historically, every good conservative candidate who has stood firm on abortion has done well. The last thing I want is a candidate who gives in on a fundamental core issue just so he can win. I don't want abortions minimized, I want them made illegal. I'd also like to make my case in the court of public opinion and the state legislatures, rather then have the Supreme Court shove it down my throat with one of the dumbest rulings this side of Dred Scott.

[rice08]

The point I am making is that there are many good conservatives who are non starters because they aren't pro life. and I don't want you to change your position. I also agree with the points made about the legal aspects of roe vs. wade. but again there is no possible combination of voters that you can come up with that can make abortion illegal everywhere in this country. it simple isn't possible. If roe vs. wade is overturned the most you can ever hope to win is forcing people to take a grayhound. In the 20 year politically bloody battle to achieve this dubious victory I can assure you many conservatives will lose and we know what fills that vacume.