Posted on 06/25/2009 11:16:21 PM PDT by Osnome
Six Most Important Factors that destroyed Roman Civilization:
1)Overtaxation
2)Opression of the Provences by the Central Government
3)Government topheavy with bureaucracy
4)Military power overextended across the world(their world at the time)
5)The Populace diverted by degenerate mass entertainment
6) The Borders poorly defended against increasing foreign migration(in their case, Barbarians)
I agree that they were authoritarian from the git go, but they (Rome) ruled with an iron fist from the time of Augustus.
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Yes and no, again.
The Senate held some real power all the way until the rule of Aurelian The Reformer in the 3rd century(and we need not digress why he did so).
Then Diocletian dissolved the Senate permanently.
Not just to our democracy, but China and everyone else that relies on it.
While we invaded Iraq over WMD and we liberated their people, the flow of oil is of great consequence. It is fungible, but a steady supply is still required.
Yes, we didn’t invade for their oil, but we will forever remain in the middle east because of it.
The power of their Tribunes like the power of the Senate became gradually(for the most part) whittled down to nothing more than a ceremonial role.
All important decisions were made from the Imperial Office downward.
The last vestiges of self government were only at the local level.
>>the flow of oil is of great consequence. It is fungible, but a steady supply is still required.
Yes, we didn’t invade for their oil, but we will forever remain in the middle east because of it.
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Very well
There is one theory that the ‘Dark Ages’ were precipitated by some global natural catastrophe in 536 A.D. which darkened the skies of Europe literally and brought about many plights.
This is alluded to in the Legends of King Arthur with the fall of Camelot and stories of famine in the land.
But this becomes a digression.
The Senate held power at the whims of the emperor. While it wasn’t dissolved until Diocletian, it was held at bay by any given emperor.
Aurelian was the last to let the Senate have any kind of voice at all, although how much can be debated. Most emperors ignored them except on trivial matters - usually internal affairs.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
But, your overall view is clear. Our country may well dissolve into dictatorial rule. It may only survive by plundering the resources of others. I don’t think we are going anywhere, but the game has changed.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
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Hah hah hah hah!
Would you believe that he may have dissolved away the Senate because they submitted to the petition of a women's protest(the first organized female protest in history).
The emperor had banned importing silks from the east.
He thought the empire could not afford such a trivial flimsy luxury.
The women of Rome could not stand to do without their silks.
LOL! Okay. You seem to have the better memory. Even after reading Edward Gibbon’s “The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire,” and Philip Schaff’s multi-volumed “History of the Church” ... I’m now running back to brush up on my history.
Run Away! Run Away!
>>Of course, there have been some historiographical developments since Gibbon’s day. One thing he failed to consider was the agriculutural revolution that happened in the East, which lead to an explosion in wealth and population in the barbarian East, which could perhaps be likened to the economic rise of China....<<
Maybe.
The Huns were from the East and were certinaly not dependent nor involved in agriculture(farmimg).
They were barbarian raiders and expert horsemen.
The Chinese are not barbarian invaders, but I get the last point and would say at this time it is a bit of a stretch.
Run away and good night - - again:-)
the rise of Christianity was one of the main reasons.
you also left out the other major reason: meddling by the military in politics. When the army started picking emperorers, it was over. There were emperors who tried to give some power back to the Senate but the Senate refuse.
All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?
Always bringing things back to a proper perspective, eh?
>We are not an empire ruled by an emperor. Such a comparison was more apt for the British. We are a republic. As such, comparisons to the Roman Republic are more apt. Why did the Roman Republic fall?<
The comparison with Britain would not be accurate either. Britain has for its entire history as a nation state been a defacto Republic, which England had been since 1689.
Ironically, she was probably more like the Empire when Cromwell was in charge during our ill-fated ‘republican’ experiment. He was a military dictator in power at the behest of the army, like pretty much every Roman Emperor, and his son Richard was overthrown by a change in the favour on the part of the military, again like a lot of Roman Emperors....
The raiding Nomads displaced the vast populations of the East over the border into the Roman Empire and caused the Romans huge problems as a result.
My point about the Chinese is that they are on the rise as a result in changing economic circumstances. American power, like Roman power, is undergoing a period of relative decline compared to new rising superpowers. China probably won’t be ready to challenge American pre-eminance directly for decades I should not think, but the trend is still moving that way gradually....
>>the rise of Christianity was one of the main reasons.
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That was a reason argued by Gibbon I believe.
I disagree.
The old faiths were already in decline.
I would agree with first part of your posting but not the last.
Indeed, the beginning of the end was when the Army(or was it the Praetorian Guard?) over threw and murdered Emperor Pertinax after the assassination of Commodus and sold the office to the highest bidder.
Then the army of Septimus Severus came in and established his reign. His cynical reminder to his son, “make the soldiers rich, care little else about the rest". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As for emperors who tried to give power back to the Senate, I cannot think of any. Not Augustus, not Aurelius........?
Life Of Brian 1978
>>My point about the Chinese is that they are on the rise as a result in changing economic circumstances. American power, like Roman power, is undergoing a period of relative decline compared to new rising superpowers. China probably won’t be ready to challenge American pre-eminance directly for decades I should not think, but the trend is still moving that way gradually....<<
If you say so.
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