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Saddam's WMD and terrorist connections all proven in one document!!!
Ray Robison Blog ^ | March 20, 2006 | Ray Robison

Posted on 03/21/2006 9:59:48 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach

Saddam's WMD and terrorist connections all proven in one document!!!

IZSP-2003-00003336

The Arabic original shows the Falcon emblem of the Iraq Intelligence Service. A translation is provided if you scroll down. I highlight the key wording but there is more:

March 11, 2003

The al-Quds liberation army division supplied us with information....as follows.

1. The Iraqi government will distribute the same leaflets that the American forces are distributing but it will contain anthrax.

2. Iraq imports uniforms resembling American forces uniforms for the purpose of killing Iraqi citizens....

3. Dig trenches around Baghdad...oil...burning...cause mayhem

Now this letter is from al-Quds, a Jihad organization that supports the Palestinians. Saddam was the patriarch and Iraq officers worked closely with them.

IZSP-2003-00000859  also talks about the al-Quds Basra division. This is a a letter from a paramilitary organization INSIDE Iraq and not from Palestinian territories. The al-Quds in Iraq are Palestinians who live in Iraq and also are involved in Palestinian activities.  They fought for Saddam because Saddam supported them in Palestine. The officers were Iraqi.

The al-Quds are covering their own butts by telling the IIS what they have been ordered to do or even trying to get them to stop Saddam since the war is immanent. If Saddam wanted to kill Iraqis with anthrax to make it look like the U.S. did it, it would be wise for him to use Palestinians instead of Iraqis. Therefor, it makes sense that he ordered the al-Quds to do it.

(Excerpt) Read more at rayrobison.typepad.com ...


TOPICS: Conspiracy; History; Military/Veterans; Politics
KEYWORDS: alquds; anthrax; iraq; iraqdocs; iraqiintelligence; izsp200300000859; onfreep; palestinians; prewardocs; saddam; sawa; wmd
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1 posted on 03/21/2006 9:59:49 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

If this is genuine, it blows up all the left's claims.


2 posted on 03/21/2006 10:05:19 AM PST by TBP
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Bump.


3 posted on 03/21/2006 10:07:03 AM PST by TBP
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To: TBP; bnelson44; NormsRevenge; Grampa Dave; SierraWasp; Marine_Uncle; eyespysomething; Dog; Coop; ...
What gets me excited is this ,....... it's the first time I have seen ANTHRAX mentioned !!!
4 posted on 03/21/2006 10:09:43 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
2. Iraq imports uniforms resembling American forces uniforms for the purpose of killing Iraqi citizens....

Oh, that's real nice, Saddam...

5 posted on 03/21/2006 10:21:07 AM PST by Allegra ("Trollspotting." A New Movie Starring a Bunch of Kitties)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Chena; Valin; M. Thatcher; DocRock; Calpernia; Madame Dufarge; Txsleuth; ...
Big News Here!!

Saddam's WMD and terrorist connections all proven in one document!!!

Release/Translation of Classified PreWar Docs ping. If you want to be added or removed to the ping list, please Freepmail me.

Operation Iraqi Freedom Documents

Documents from the Harmony Database

6 posted on 03/21/2006 10:22:05 AM PST by eyespysomething
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach


Thank goodness and I appreciated this crisp short (pithy?) article!

Thanks for the ping, Ernie!


7 posted on 03/21/2006 10:22:35 AM PST by onyx (Bush/Cheney '08 --- by coup if necessary)
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To: eyespysomething; onyx
From the Blog....but I don't know exactly where he is getting some of this.....I don't .

***********

Need some eyeballs to verify......

*******************************

Unless we see a translation that is different I think we have this:

Proof that Saddam had small amounts of anthrax.
Proof that Saddam would use non Iraqi terrorists to carry out a biological attack.

This is exactly the scenario that President Bush warned about, Saddam giving WMD to terrorists. This is the Mother of all Smoking Guns.

Update: Many of the new documents (released 3/20/2006) are marked PIR, Priority Information Request. Fedeyen Saddam was a PIR item in 2003, so many of them deal with that organization. It would seem Negroponte has switched from his plan to release the junk NIV and is now releasing the most important documents. Good for him!

8 posted on 03/21/2006 10:30:35 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: eyespysomething

Thanks for the ping! They are coming in fast.


9 posted on 03/21/2006 10:30:45 AM PST by Just A Nobody (NEVER AGAIN - Support our troops. I *LOVE* my attitude problem! Beware the Enemedia.)
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To: jveritas

Wanted to make sure you saw this one.


10 posted on 03/21/2006 10:31:59 AM PST by Just A Nobody (NEVER AGAIN - Support our troops. I *LOVE* my attitude problem! Beware the Enemedia.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Unless we see a translation that is different I think we have this:

Proof that Saddam had small amounts of anthrax. Proof that Saddam would use non Iraqi terrorists to carry out a biological attack.

This is exactly the scenario that President Bush warned about, Saddam giving WMD to terrorists. This is the Mother of all Smoking Guns.


11 posted on 03/21/2006 10:34:27 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which liberalism coheres is that NOTHING actually matters but PR.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Need some eyeballs to verify......




You can't use mine!
Seriously, last night I read 30 linked articles on threads wherein I am involved. My head hurt afterward and today my eyes are tired. Are we getting OLD?


12 posted on 03/21/2006 10:35:21 AM PST by onyx (Bush/Cheney '08 --- by coup if necessary)
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To: onyx
LOL.....I sure am....

I can't walk far enough and fast enough to shed the calories I put into my body....which is still geared up for a farm sunup to sundown routine....

13 posted on 03/21/2006 10:38:42 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I think we're going to have to be patient with this document release. Not only will the translation take time, but the information will have to be put into context.

I wish this were another "Buckhead moment," and that a few days analysis would suffice to get to the heart of the matter. I doubt that this situation will get to that point so quickly.

Still, it is nice to see that this stuff is seeing the light of day.


14 posted on 03/21/2006 10:44:34 AM PST by Cap Huff
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

it's the first time I have seen ANTHRAX mentioned !!!

From the forgotten decade:

DoD Halts Some Anthrax Shots Until New Plant Passes Muster
By Douglas J. Gillert
American Forces Press Service
WASHINGTON -- Failure of a new anthrax vaccine production plant to pass FDA inspection has led DoD to postpone the second phase of vaccinations for at least six months.

Defense officials announced Dec. 13 the Pentagon will delay inoculating troops other than those deployed to Korea and the Persian Gulf until new batches of the vaccine are proven safe and effective. Dr. Sue Bailey, assistant secretary of defense for Health Affairs, said there are enough FDA-certified dosages to continue vaccinating troops headed to those high-threat areas.

Since the first phase of inoculations began last year, 383,000 soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines have received anthrax shots. The second phase will cover first responders to military contingencies or those ready to deploy, Bailey said. The third and final phase will inoculate the remainder of the force.

But if the United States had to conduct a military buildup now, such as it did for Desert Storm, it couldn't fully protect those troops against anthrax, a senior officer said.

"We're not there, yet," said Marine Corps Maj. Gen. Randall West, a special adviser on anthrax and biological weapons to Rudy de Leon, undersecretary of defense for Personnel and Readiness. "We could not today do a full buildup to Desert Storm and have every serviceman and -woman that was sent there vaccinated."

Bailey said DoD has other ways to protect troops against anthrax attacks, including chemical/biological protection suits, gas masks and antibiotics. "We are able to provide, as we did during the Gulf [War], some significant protection against anthrax," she said. She said DoD also could decide to give every soldier a portion of the six prescribed inoculations, so they would have some protection.

In addition, Bioport -- the company that produces the vaccine -- has stockpiled more than 1 million doses that would have to be recertified before they are used, according to David Oliver, principal deputy undersecretary of defense for Acquisition and Technology.

Bailey said DoD has no plans to halt anthrax inoculations all together. "The program is safe, effective and necessary," she said, "and we will continue to meet the highest possible standards."

Defense Secretary William S. Cohen delayed the second phase of inoculations until the new production facility built by Bioport, the Michigan-based manufacturer, achieves FDA certification. Bioport built the new production facility after demolishing the smaller state-regulated facility on the same site. The larger facility is necessary to meet DoD production requirements of some 400,000 dosages a month. The old plant produced just 2,000 doses a month.

Defense officials thought the process -- from demolishing the old plant, building the new one and getting FDA certification -- would take less time than it has.

"Frankly, it has been more difficult than the department and Bioport expected to move from a small, state-regulated production facility to a large, modern production facility that meets state-of-the-art FDA requirements," Bailey said.

The Pentagon has left the date open as to when the second phase of inoculations will begin. In the meantime, the Army, as executive agent for the anthrax program, has assigned a general officer to provide full-time oversight and review of Bioport processes to help facilitate FDA certification.

Related Site of Interest: DoD News Briefing on the Anthrax Vaccination and Immunization Program, Dec. 13, 1999




http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Dec1999/n12141999_9912141.html


15 posted on 03/21/2006 10:47:00 AM PST by Wristpin ("The Yankees announce plan to buy every player in Baseball....")
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To: eyespysomething

Thanks for the ping


16 posted on 03/21/2006 10:47:03 AM PST by DocRock
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To: TBP
If this is genuine, it blows up all the left's claims.

No chance! The liberal lunatic fringe will not only accept the clumsy forgeries that Dan Rather presented without question, but continue to defend the forgeries as real after it has been proven beyond question that they are fake.

On the other hand, you can present Iraqi documents with Saddam's fingerprints on it and they will dismiss them with a sneer as clever CIA forgeries...

They insane can never become aware that they are insane...

17 posted on 03/21/2006 10:51:40 AM PST by Publius6961 (Multiculturalism is the white flag of a dying country)
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To: eyespysomething; Cap Huff; onyx; jveritas
I can't find a reference in.....IZSP-2003-00000859....to Anthrax.......

***********************************************

NEED HELP!!!

Can jveritas take a look at that document......

18 posted on 03/21/2006 10:52:10 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: All
From the Blog:

Was anthrax stolen from Iraq?
ISGQ-2003-M0007740 Page 5.

*************************************************

One of the reoccurring themes of these documents is the "Biological file". The term refers to the U.N. resolution that requires Iraq to report the disposition of all biological weapons. Other documents discuss the 17 tons.

The 17 tons are growth media that bacteria, namely anthrax is grown on.

globalsecurity.org

"UNSCOM strongly suspected that admitted Iraqi figures for production of BW agent are still too low. Over Nor are 17 tons of growth media for BW agents are not accounted for - enough to produce more than three times the amount of anthrax Iraq admits it had."

In this tape, a briefer once again tells Saddam that the biological file is the toughest one to complete in order for the U.N. to abandon the sanctions on Iraq.

"The issue of "the material balancing for the cultured medium" (balancing means comparing the accounted for amount with documents that indicate how much there should be- RR) is a numbers issue and it's clear, but they had issues with storage sites, some things changed. And it is true; there were some stolen materials on the local market that we recovered."

Now it is not clear here when this happened. And it is not clear if this media was cultured with anthrax, another bacteria, or uncultured. But it raises a very interesting question when you think about the anthrax attack of 9/11. Did somebody in Iraqi labs steal anthrax and give or sell it to Jihadists? Just a thought...

Update: in another document the theft comes up again. They told the UN the "mob" took it. It sounds like they are covering something up, but it is too ambiguous to make a conclusion.

19 posted on 03/21/2006 10:57:43 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach


LOL -- I can;t help you -- I have even reset my font to LARGE! I really read way TOO MUCH last night.


20 posted on 03/21/2006 10:58:05 AM PST by onyx (Bush/Cheney '08 --- by coup if necessary)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I will look at its content and let you know.


21 posted on 03/21/2006 11:04:17 AM PST by jveritas (Hate can never win elections.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I don't see it in IZSP-2003-00000859, but I do in -00003336


22 posted on 03/21/2006 11:05:17 AM PST by eyespysomething
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I went to the Pentagon/FMSO website and clicked on IZSP-2003-00000859 (Arabic) and all what I got is 9 pages synopsis in English of what appears to be a very long document.


23 posted on 03/21/2006 11:15:59 AM PST by jveritas (Hate can never win elections.)
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To: jveritas

Thanks....


24 posted on 03/21/2006 11:23:41 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
So what is this crap: www.yahoo.com

F*cking AP!

25 posted on 03/21/2006 11:30:59 AM PST by mozrock (They're not people, they're hippies!)
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To: All
Not directly on topic, but a perspective anyway:

Tuesday, March 21, 2006
Leaving the 20th century

*****************************AN EXCERPT***********************

As more information becomes available about the recent past it becomes necessary for revise the conventionally accepted picture of the War on Terror in the light of new revelations. One site that illustrates the forthcoming flood is the Pajamas Media Iraq files dedicated to covering newly released documents confiscated during OIF. More new documents have just been released and one can only guess what's in them. Some of the documents have already suggested that Saddam may have been in contact with Osama Bin Laden before September 11 to plot terror attacks against the US, though to what extent is yet unknown.  A number of recent books have already made good contributions to recent history and more are in the works. Among them: George Packer's Assassin's Gate, Bing Wests's No True Glory and most recently Gordon and Trainor's Cobra II. Nobody is going to be completely happy with the new information. Saddam was not as innocent of WMD intentions as many Liberals retrospectively claimed him to be. He was more brutal than anyone could imagine him to be. Administrations supporters will be unhappy to learn that Donald Rumsfeld and President Bush probably made errors in judgement in the planning and execution of OIF. But Liberals will be saddened to discover that President Bush may not have been eager to invade Iraq at all, despite portrayals to the contrary by the press, deciding only after the intelligence community (which did not entirely cover itself with glory) convinced him that Saddam was an imminent threat. We learn that press exaggerations may have helped abort the first battle of Fallujah, probably to the detriment of the American cause. The recent histories will reignite the debate the role of Colin Powell; whether de-Baathization was a good move in retrospect and about a dozen other things. And about Donald Rumsfeld: the Jawa Report now thinks he should go. Suggestive stories are still pouring in. For example, it may be the case that Saudi Arabian and Pakistani engineers helped destroy the Bamiyan Buddhas. Saddam apparently funded the Abu Sayyaf. 

Sebastian Junger (of the Perfect Storm) says Pakistan is still supporting the Taliban and may have helped Osama Bin Laden escape American capture. Details in April's Vanity Fair. Christopher Hitchens highlights the distortions that are closer at hand, pointing out Al Qaeda's almost Satanic and long-standing plan to set every ethnic group in Iraq against every other may succeed because of the US domestic preoccupation with the blame game. Aller gegen alle. And not just in Iraq. 

Commentary

Photo: http://www.zombietime.com/global_day_of_action_march_18_2006/

It would have been surprising to discover a really simple narrative behind the events of the last four and half years. The public is only now beginning to catch a glimpse of the fantastic complexity that somehow lay beneath the placid exterior of the 1990s, an era that came to an end with everyone worrying about the millennium software bug but which failed to anticipate September 11. The emergence of bewildering detail is reassuring in this respect: the events since are not the simple contrivance of a few bureaucrats at the Mossad or the CIA. Real historical forces and not cheap conspiracies are at work, though perhaps not every politician has realized that yet.

posted by wretchard at 5:02 AM

************************************************

See link for comments.....

26 posted on 03/21/2006 11:33:47 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Another hit out of the ball park. We always knew this...the liberal goons will spin, lie and do whatever it takes to NOT REPORT THESE FACTS.


27 posted on 03/21/2006 11:40:05 AM PST by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand; but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: mozrock

DAMN!!!


28 posted on 03/21/2006 11:54:02 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: shield

See link at post #25 for example!


29 posted on 03/21/2006 11:57:39 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: eyespysomething

Since you're keeping better track than I've been able to, tell me how the information in the yahoo link at post 25 squares with other information?

I've seen a lot here linking Saddam to terrorists inside and outside of Iraq, but I don't recall seeing anything substantial about WMDs.


30 posted on 03/21/2006 12:08:50 PM PST by SittinYonder (That's how I saw it, and see it still.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Will do...


31 posted on 03/21/2006 12:13:04 PM PST by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand; but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: mozrock

Is the document quoted on yahoo somehow related to the recent times article where they quote Saddam as telling his deputies, who had been counting on wmds, that there really were none, that none existed? That would be the same article that O'Reilly keeps quoting too. He constantly keeps repeating that 'even Saddam's deputies/lieutenants were shocked to find out there really were NO wmds.

(don't know if I can watch him ever again after he allowed even a split second of coverage for that code pinko last night)


32 posted on 03/21/2006 12:25:21 PM PST by Kimberly GG
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To: DocRock

ping


33 posted on 03/21/2006 12:27:56 PM PST by Volunteer (Just so you know, I am ashamed the Dixie Chicks make records in Nashville.)
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To: Kimberly GG
Is the document quoted on yahoo somehow related to the recent times article where they quote Saddam as telling his deputies, who had been counting on wmds, that there really were none, that none existed? That would be the same article that O'Reilly keeps quoting too. He constantly keeps repeating that 'even Saddam's deputies/lieutenants were shocked to find out there really were NO wmds.

(don't know if I can watch him ever again after he allowed even a split second of coverage for that code pinko last night)

Not sure.

But it is not good. Even with the links coming out about the ties between Saddam and AQ, the chant will be ... but there were no WMDs! Bush lied!

34 posted on 03/21/2006 12:30:48 PM PST by mozrock (They're not people, they're hippies!)
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To: mozrock; All

But it is not good. Even with the links coming out about the ties between Saddam and AQ, the chant will be ... but there were no WMDs! Bush lied!"

No, it isn't good and any opportunity the media has to re-interpret something, they will. Cnn and ABC already did a number on the docs revealed at the intelligence summit.

I've already had people reply to my posts (on other sites) regarding these documents quote the disclaimer back at me "The US Government has made no determination regarding the authenticity of the documents, validity or factual accuracy of the information contained therein, or the quality of any translations, when available." I get that thrown at me repeatedly!

But back to that document from the yahoo link. Doesn't it make since that at some point Saddam WOULD deny having wmds, he would tell his lieuteants/deputies that there none, not because he hadn't HAD them, but that they could not be used in the war because they had been moved? I keep wondering if there is something Saddam said to that effect that is being repeated by O'Reilly and the NYTimes and now Yahoo that is being misunderstood for an admission by Saddam that he had no wmds.

(sorry, hope that makes sense)


35 posted on 03/21/2006 12:43:53 PM PST by Kimberly GG
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Many thanks- I'll link to this. More pieces of the puzzle.


36 posted on 03/21/2006 12:43:57 PM PST by backhoe (The 1990's? The Decade of Fraud(s)...)
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To: eyespysomething
I just looked at ONE doc from the link you posted here, picking it arbitrarily -

ISGQ-2003-M0004444_TRANS This audio file contains a meeting between Saddam Hussein and the Revolutionary Command Council about the inspection operations which are to be conducted by the United Nations (UN).

Unfortunately, it can't be copy/pasted! but it is sure interesting - SAddam and cohorts discussing how to direct (MIS_direct) inspectors...

some excerpts:

"the targets...that we want them to deploy...we exhaust them so the real targets get lost...

Male 1: and also...this is the only time in their lifetime that they are coming...

Male 1: Your Excellency, we have decided to move everything...

Male 2 (Saddam)" We want to make them fail at the last minute, squeeze them to the end...."

That's just the first one I looked at at random! Lot's more in there. I think most of the media will be too lazy to print out and copy this stuff - however, we can - the pages are numbered, so they can be individually printed for most pertinent passages...then scanned and posted?

I have this link "desktopped"

37 posted on 03/21/2006 12:58:43 PM PST by maine-iac7 ("...BUT YOU CAN'T FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME." Lincoln)
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To: maine-iac7; backhoe; Marine_Uncle; eyespysomething; mozrock; Kimberly GG; shield
Got a left-wing blog working on this also:

The rightwing blogosphere continues to selectively quote and misrepresent these documents as "smoking gun" proof that they were right all along.
Ray Robison headlines:
Saddam's WMD and terrorist connections all proven in one document!!!

38 posted on 03/21/2006 2:02:22 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Thanks...


39 posted on 03/21/2006 2:09:24 PM PST by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand; but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: eyespysomething

Thank you.


40 posted on 03/21/2006 2:09:29 PM PST by nw_arizona_granny (TODAY WOULD BE A GOOD DAY FOR LOTS OF HEAVY PRAYING, THE WORLD NEEDS YOUR PRAYERS.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Lots of work required to cloud the issues.


41 posted on 03/21/2006 2:14:17 PM PST by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Most excellent Ernest, proves what we already know... we have to get it out.

I'm in the process of going through the old threads and links I have, feel free to cross check names as they come up.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1470208/posts

Will send more later... and we have to restart a new thread to put all our links together... from Clinton or even before... up to now.

Thanks again, Robinson is great.


42 posted on 03/21/2006 2:57:59 PM PST by AliVeritas (“Pacifism is objectively pro-Islamo-Fascist.”)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Hey Did you see this document jveritas translated?

Saddam Regime Document: Iraqi Intelligence met with Bin Laden in 1995 (Translation)

43 posted on 03/21/2006 3:48:26 PM PST by eyespysomething
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To: eyespysomething

Bump!


44 posted on 03/21/2006 5:55:12 PM PST by TheLion
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To: Kimberly GG
"I've already had people reply to my posts (on other sites) regarding these documents quote the disclaimer back at me "The US Government has made no determination regarding the authenticity of the documents, validity or factual accuracy of the information contained therein, or the quality of any translations, when available." I get that thrown at me repeatedly!"

Every time someone throws this at you, repeat the first seven words. "The US Government has made NO determination". Then tell them that no does not mean the government has made a negative determination, but has made NO determination.

45 posted on 03/21/2006 6:18:36 PM PST by mjaneangels@aolcom
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To: mjaneangels@aolcom

Ironic that the people who hate the US government, are the same ones who refuse to acknowledge documents unless they are authenticated by the US Government (which they hate).


46 posted on 03/22/2006 12:56:28 AM PST by syriacus (Would fewer Americans have died in Iraq if the French and Germans had helped depose Saddam?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

bttt


47 posted on 03/22/2006 12:58:17 AM PST by nopardons
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To: mjaneangels@aolcom

"Every time someone throws this at you, repeat the first seven words. "The US Government has made NO determination". Then tell them that no does not mean the government has made a negative determination, but has made NO determination."

thanks......good catch...I can be a bit slow on the draw these days!


48 posted on 03/22/2006 7:05:01 AM PST by Kimberly GG
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To: syriacus

"Ironic that the people who hate the US government, are the same ones who refuse to acknowledge documents unless they are authenticated by the US Government (which they hate)."

You are right. I hadn't thought of it that way.


49 posted on 03/22/2006 4:44:19 PM PST by mjaneangels@aolcom
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To: Kimberly GG

"thanks......good catch...I can be a bit slow on the draw these days!"

Your welcome. One of the big reasons I come here is to consider other people's ideas. I don't always agree with anyone, but I do consider ideas.


50 posted on 03/22/2006 4:45:41 PM PST by mjaneangels@aolcom
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