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Poverty Inc.: The Sack of Huntsville
JohnQuincy ^ | 06/19/2011 | WizKid

Posted on 06/24/2011 10:09:44 PM PDT by wizkid

In the Spring of 1968 at the Bing Nursery School in Palo Alto California, America came to an end. Within its walls, the elites learned just how cheaply our souls could be had: All it cost was a couple of minutes and one marshmallow per soul on average.

(Excerpt) Read more at johnquincy.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Local News; Politics; Science; Society
KEYWORDS: fairhousing; hannarosin; leftfield; section8; selfcontrol
"If you like you can listen (to the sirens) yourself, for you may get the men to bind you ... to, the mast itself, that you may have the pleasure of listening. If you beg and pray the men to unloose you, then they must bind you faster." - Homer, The Odyssey (circa 900bc)

"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" -Matthew 16-26, King James Bible
1 posted on 06/24/2011 10:09:50 PM PDT by wizkid
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To: wizkid

2 posted on 06/24/2011 10:35:03 PM PDT by MrShoop
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To: wizkid; MrShoop

Two obscure semi-coherent sentences, followed by two non-sequiturs.

Do you really expect blog hits for that?


3 posted on 06/24/2011 10:49:01 PM PDT by shibumi (The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water and breeds reptiles of the mind - Blake)
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To: wizkid
"If you like you can listen (to the sirens) yourself, for you may get the men to bind you ... to, the mast itself, that you may have the pleasure of listening. If you beg and pray the men to unloose you, then they must bind you faster." - Homer, The Odyssey (circa 900bc)

Actually, modern scholars have determined that The Iliad and The Odyssey were not written by Homer, but rather by another ancient Greek who had the same name.

4 posted on 06/24/2011 11:05:40 PM PDT by rmh47 (Go Kats! - Got Seven? [NRA Life Member])
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To: MrShoop
The Sack of Huntsville

which huntsville?

5 posted on 06/24/2011 11:26:55 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: higgmeister
And - more importantly - How big a sack?

Paper or Plastic?
6 posted on 06/24/2011 11:38:08 PM PDT by shibumi (The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water and breeds reptiles of the mind - Blake)
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To: rmh47
"Actually, modern scholars have determined that The Iliad and The Odyssey were not written by Homer, but rather by another ancient Greek who had the same name."

No, no, no.

They were not two poems, but rather one long Russian novel, later developed as a TV series in which Illya Nickovetch Kuryakin searches for the lost city of Odessa on the Black Sea not realizing that it had been moved to Texas.
7 posted on 06/24/2011 11:46:55 PM PDT by shibumi (The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water and breeds reptiles of the mind - Blake)
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To: shibumi
What logical fallacy are you referring to? My premise is that decentralizing poverty (dumping project dwellers into middle class suburbs) is resulting in disaster because these people lack the necessary life skill to succeed, self control. Is this wrong? If so, how?

Hope the below outlines helps as it is a complicated subject:

Outline:

Summary:

In 1968 researchers at Stanford University, stumbled upon the most accurate predictor of success/happiness in life, self control, while conducting the acclaimed Marshmallow experiment. Despite the wealth of evidence that supports this finding, the US government via the Department of Housing and Urban Development has embarked on a reckless scheme to relocate thousands of people from the projects (who lack this very skill, self control) to unsuspecting neighborhoods across the United States. Tragically rather than trying to impart any life skills, they seem to believe that dumping people, whom they have raised as dependents, into successful neighborhoods will magically transform them into productive members of society.

Topic Paragraph

This ties the Marshmallow experiment to gospel teachings. The Marshmallow Experiment dramatically demonstrated the link between development of self control and later success/happiness in life. It warns that self control, despite being the most important determinant of success, is often undervalued to tragic consequences.

Zion Train - Reference to the importance of Self Control in the popular music of Bob Marley.

The Wilderness Section - This contains several parts. It references historical teachings regarding self control and contrasts them with the current view of our elites that humans cannot exercise this trait.

The First Temptation - Biblical reference to the exercise of self control in the face of temptation from the Gospel of Matthew.

Lashed to the Mast - Historical reference to the exercise of self control in the face of temptation from the Homer's Odyssey.

Separating the Men From the Apes - Evolutionary reference to the fact that scientists believe that the most important characteristic that separates men from animals is our power of self control. Men from the Apes is an allusion to the famous book, the Third Chimpanzee.

Condoms for Kids - Contrasting the above long standing belief in the importance of exercising self control, with the current attitude of our elites that we are unable to exercise self control to the point where they feel the need to hand out condoms to first graders.

Experimenting with Marshmallows - Summary of what many people believe is the most important behavioral studies of the last 50 years, the Marshmallow experiment. The results of this study and follow up with its participants over time starkly demonstrated the importance of self control to success and happiness in life. A link is given to the best popular article on the subject in recent years in the New Yorker.

…Getting Knocked Up - This contrasts the conclusions of Marshmallow Experiment with efforts by the government to magically transform lives by dumping project dwellers into middle class suburbs without the necessary life skill for success, self control. The title mocks the advice given to a woman by housing officials that she should get pregnant to avoid getting evicted from her luxury apartment to make room for project dwellers.

Racial Star Chamber – References recent attempts by the government to stifle opposition to this decentralization of poverty into suburban neighborhoods via threats of lawsuits/investigations on racial discrimination grounds.

Fair Housing, A Stealth Right – References to attempts to make living in middle class luxury apartment a welfare entitlement.

Blowing the Lid – Contrasts the promises made for this effort to decentralize poverty with the actual results. It references and explosive article in the Atlantic Monthly that links this effort with a skyrocketing violent crime rate in many cities across America. This article also discusses how dumping project dwellers into marginal neighborhoods is tipping many of them into a spiral of poverty.

Howdy Neighbor – This is a joke. How can one write about the Huntsville Projects and not mention the Dodsons.

8 posted on 06/25/2011 12:35:30 AM PDT by wizkid
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To: MrShoop

Don't drink and blog?

Obviously, you have never perused 40ozMaltLiquor.com.

40 Ounce Crews
9 posted on 06/25/2011 12:43:23 AM PDT by wizkid
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To: higgmeister
Huntsville, Alabama

Huntsville is the latest victim in the ongoing scheme by the Department of Housing and Urban Development to "Decentralize Poverty."

In Huntsville, this policy resulted in the demolition of the Council Court Projects and the relocation of residents to luxury apartments on the south side of town.

If you like skyrocketing violent crime rates and tipping marginal neighborhoods into poverty, it works great.
10 posted on 06/25/2011 12:54:16 AM PDT by wizkid
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To: shibumi
And - more importantly - How big a sack? Paper or Plastic?

Hope this helps:

sack 2 (sk) tr.v. sacked, sack·ing, sacks To rob of goods or valuables, especially after capture. n. 1. The looting or pillaging of a captured city or town. 2. Plunder; loot.
11 posted on 06/25/2011 1:01:05 AM PDT by wizkid
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To: wizkid
I actually read a good part of your blog, and I get what you are saying, wizkid.

The working assumption of most Federal anti-poverty programs is "Prop 'em up with a stick and eventually they will learn to walk." And of course, sane people protest in vain that they will learn, not to walk, but to hang from a stick, mastering the art of dependency upon the gov't in the process.

I don't know about some of the late night commenters. They read a couple of lines and off they go with their flaming replies. It's always a good idea to completely understand what someone is trying to communicate before rushing into verbal combat.

12 posted on 06/25/2011 1:23:38 AM PDT by ARepublicanForAllReasons (The world will be a better place when humanity learns not to try to make it a perfect place)
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To: shibumi

Neither! Only industrial grade gunny sacks are large & strong enough for the job.


13 posted on 06/25/2011 1:49:51 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Made in America, by proud American citizens, in 1946.)
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To: ARepublicanForAllReasons
Thank you for your kind comments.

Freepers definitely do not tend to pull their punches but even the harsher ones have a point:

I cannot expect everyone to take the time to make some leaps on their own. Most people demand things to be spelled out in fine detail.

Based on the comments, I have gone through the entire post to better/explicitly tie everything together.

Your summary is spot on.

Unfortunately for our society, the Department of Housing an Urban Development has taken dependency to the next level by attempting to "distribute dependency/poverty" across entire cities with dire consequences for all of us:

Consequences from the Redistribution of Urban Poverty During the 1990's.
14 posted on 06/25/2011 2:04:49 AM PDT by wizkid
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To: wizkid
Your post #8 makes it clear what your blog article is about. #8 makes it possible to decide whether it is worthwhile to actually go to your blog and read the rest.

In contrast, the two brief, disjointed, out-of-context sentences you posted at the beginning serve only to confuse and frustrate. Were they perhaps intended as a "come-on" (comparable to "Why Is this Man Smiling? Turn to Pg. 16 to Find Out!")? Were you trying to "lure" FReepers to your blog?

Regards,

15 posted on 06/25/2011 2:42:58 AM PDT by alexander_busek
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To: alexander_busek; wizkid
"Were they perhaps intended as a "come-on" (comparable to "Why Is this Man Smiling? Turn to Pg. 16 to Find Out!")? Were you trying to "lure" FReepers to your blog?"

By George - I think you've got it!
16 posted on 06/25/2011 4:57:34 AM PDT by shibumi (The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water and breeds reptiles of the mind - Blake)
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To: rmh47
Actually, modern scholars have determined that The Iliad and The Odyssey were not written by Homer, but rather by another ancient Greek who had the same name.

Cheers!

17 posted on 06/25/2011 6:00:27 AM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: alexander_busek; shibumi
Your post #8 makes it clear what your blog article is about. #8 makes it possible to decide whether it is worthwhile to actually go to your blog and read the rest.

I am glad you liked the outline.

In contrast, the two brief, disjointed, out-of-context sentences you posted at the beginning serve only to confuse and frustrate. Were they perhaps intended as a "come-on" (comparable to "Why Is this Man Smiling? Turn to Pg. 16 to Find Out!")? Were you trying to "lure" FReepers to your blog?

Are you referring to the excerpt or my initial comment? In either case, they appear to have served their purpose admirably. What you call a "Come On" is actually a standard writing technique:

The first sentence of a research paper must lure your audience into reading further. The first sentence may be the thesis of the paper, or it may be a compelling statement to grab a reader's attention. Either way, the sentence needs to command attention from a reader and make them interested enough in the subject to want to continue reading.

How to Develop an Opening Sentence for a research Paper

Both the excerpt and quote were meant to be compelling because that is their main function. A secondary function, is to get the reader to start thinking about the topic at hand by leaving some loose ends (loose ends tend to sound disjointed). The excerpt and comments also appear to have accomplished that feat. Here is an informative snippet from a post on the forex scams website (how to avoid forex scams):


How To: Let the reader fill in the blanks

Forcing your readers to draw their own conclusions will illicit mixed results: you may find that it increases your conversions dramatically, or you may find the opposite. The difference between the two extremes comes down to your use of persuasive language and subtle actions.

Letting the reader fill in the blanks is not an easy task to accomplish. Your goal is to write content that is creative and compelling enough to get the reader thinking about it, yet vague and open-ended enough that your readers will be able to draw their own conclusions successfully.


In university level writing courses, this topic is also covered extensively:

Texas A&M University Writing Center, Teaching Paragraphs.

Sometimes a writer prefers to make a point more subtly, and forcing readers to draw their own conclusions.

My apologies if you feel cheated by my attempt to get people thinking and start a conversation about the nature of success. It is a topic that many people find fascinating so I thought Freepers would enjoy it.

If you feel cheated by my writing skills, it is not due to lack of effort on my part. As mentioned above attempting to let readers draw their own conclusions is not an easy task. There is also the fact that many people prefer being spoon fed information and get upset when they are forced to draw their own conclusions. Unfortunately, the outline that I supplied defeats the purpose any effort to let readers draw their own conclusions. Some people will get it like ARepublicanForAllReasons and other will not that is the difficulty a posting somewhere with such a diverse audience (diverse audience of conservatives).

If there is some scam involved, the only profit that I derive (My post has no advertisements and does not solicit donations) is a comment that further enlightens me on the topic at hand (in this case, the nature of success versus poverty).
18 posted on 06/25/2011 10:57:20 AM PDT by wizkid
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To: wizkid
Forcing your readers to draw their own conclusions will illicit mixed results [...]

I think that that ought to read "elicit."

Dear wizkid:

I am quite willing to draw my own conclusions, thank you - once I have been presented with the plain, unadorned facts.

In the case of the article you posted, your very brief excerpt contained absolutely no "meat," nothing substantive, nothing on the basis of which any conclusion could possibly have been drawn.

So please don't claim that your readers here at Free Republic were being lazy because they were able to see only two very cryptic, virtually meaningless - but admittedly enticing - sentences, and thus had no choice but to either swallow the bait, or ignore your article.

We here at Free Republic expect by no means to be "spoon fed," as you insinuate. But we do demand intellectual honesty and straightforwardness. The excerpt you posted was totally inadequate as a basis for discussion. It was even inadequate to know what the heck you were talking about. It was adequate only as a "teaser." The word I've heard for posters like that is "blog pimp." An ugly word, I admit, but sometimes apt.

Regards,

19 posted on 06/25/2011 12:34:12 PM PDT by alexander_busek
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To: wizkid; alexander_busek
If your "post" (blog) has no ads and does not take donations, then there's no reason you can't post your entire work here - or are you afraid that you might sue yourself for infringement?

As for what you call a "literary device" we are not children that have to be cajoled or conned into deciding what we want to read. And we have our own name for your "device."

We call it pimping.

Maybe you missed it, but the owner of this site has already weighed in on this subject:

"I have no complaint if a good conservative blogger posts his own material to FR, not as an excerpt to drive hits and discussion back to his blog, but rather to impart useful information to OUR readers and to promote and join in on the discussion and conservative activism HERE on FR." - Jim Robinson
20 posted on 06/25/2011 7:55:27 PM PDT by shibumi (The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water and breeds reptiles of the mind - Blake)
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To: alexander_busek
Yes, the word is elicit. Since it came from a direct quote that I put in italics from another author, I left it alone. With today's spell checkers, words often get switched.

We should probably just agree to respectfully disagree but you have put several words in my mouth, most likely unintentionally, that require clarification.

Nowhere in my reply did I make the claim that my readers here at Free Republic are lazy (If they were my readers, they would not be lazy.). What I said was:

Attempting to provoke thought (by using some non-linear techniques) is not an easy task. With many readers, this style will fall flat. Some people do not like it and they are perfectly free not to. There are also some that do.

By your own words, you prefer plain, unadorned facts. Most people do and there is nothing wrong with that either. My preference is for a complex, non-linear style which can easily fall flat with the just the facts crowd. In my opinion, our disagreement is more about style than substance.

I also did not accuse every Freeper or even you of expecting to be spoon fed. I just made a simple statement of fact that many people do. In any large group of people, human nature dictates that a fairly large number do not want to have to think too deeply. This is obviously not my target audience either..

The vast majority of posters at Free Republic excerpt only the topic paragraph and that is exactly what I did. By definition, the topic paragraph should be a teaser. Further, it would be a stretch to assume that any excerpt should provide an adequate basis for any real discussion.

What you seem to be proposing is the posting of entire sections of articles in the excerpt section, which I believe is a violation of copyright laws (for most items) and is against Free Republic policy.

When taken as a whole (the title, excerpt, initial comment, and keywords), one would be hard pressed to claim that they were inadequate to forewarn the reader about what the post would be about:

Title: Poverty Inc.: The Sack of Huntsville

Poverty Inc. - It is common to put “Inc.” after a word to indicate that something has been turned into a big business (i.e. the poverty business) (e.g. government welfare agencies, community organizers, non-profits, legal foundations).

Sack – Even though I thought sack was a pretty common word, apparently high school world history classes no longer teach about the sack of Jerusalem, Rome and/or Constantinople anymore because that is where I learned about many of these topics.

Huntsville – I would assume that the majority of adults know that Huntsville is a city somewhere in the South.

When put together, the title tells one that the article will be about poverty advocacy groups somehow destroying a southern city. On top of this, one of the key words is “Fair Housing,” which should be a familiar term for anyone that casually reads the new. This is the a tip off that the it will be about housing advocacy groups in particular.

Excerpt:

“In the Spring of 1968 at the Bing Nursery School in Palo Alto California, America came to an end. Within its walls, the elites learned just how cheaply our souls could be had: All it cost was a couple of minutes and one marshmallow per soul on average.”


In 1997, the author, Daniel Goleman published the book, Emotional Intelligence, in response the the controversial book, the Bell Curve. EI was a smash world-wide hit. With the author appearing on numerous radio and tv shows. I was living in Tokyo at the time and the Japanese translation was a hit even over there and a hot topic of conversation in the media there too. The book is still in print and has spawned many knock offs and follow up versions. Check Amazon and you will clearly see that is has spawned a whole emotional intelligence publishing industry that continues to this day.

In any case, the book popularized the Bing Nursery School Marshmallow experiment. Goleman used to fascinate tv and radio audiences with tales of it so it is part of popular culture. Also anyone with even a passing interest in psychology, particularly behavioral psychology, is certainly aware of it.

You should also note that the article was posted as a Science topic. I often see scientific article posted at Freeper that contain complex scientific terms without explanations let alone ones that are part of popular culture and have yet to see any complaints about them.

America came to an end – This clearly indicates that America has sold its soul.

How Cheaply Our Souls Could Be Had – While this does presume some biblical knowledge, I feel pretty safe that this is not an issue at Free Republic. Most people should know that souls are sold to the devil for some temptation. In this case our souls are being sold cheaply.

When one puts the title together with the excerpt, you get:

A Southern City is being destroyed by fair housing poverty advocates. This involves involves a change in the American character that will destroy our whole country.

If one is familiar with the Marshmallow Experiment, you would understand that this change is the loss of self control, which is the most important determinant to success.

Comment Section Quotes:

I have posted quotes for one of the most famous episodes in the new testament and one of the most important works of Western literature. Since most children are taught the bible and the tale of Odysseus and the sirens is also featured in many cartoons and family oriented movies, they should be familiar to most people even those without a high level of education. Both of these quotes involve resisting temptation via self control.

Since both Jesus and Odysseus resist temptation, they are meant to serve as a hopeful bookend to the grim excerpt. There is hope for America and that hope is self control.

When one puts everything together you would get this:

An American city in the South is being destroyed by fair housing poverty advocates. This involves a change in American character related to the loss of the most important determinant to success, self control, that will destroy us all. There is hope if we resist temptations for cheap riches and maintain self discipline.

Blog Pimp

If my post consisted of just my excerpt and a few scraps, I would agree with the Blog Pimp characterization but that is not the case. In fact, its scope and references would more likely overwhelm most readers who typically expect to tackle much more modest articles.

It is funny that you mention me baiting users who appear almost hopeless to resist my temptations because it oddly parallels the marshmallow test scenario. If JQ is up there with marshmallows, America must truly be doomed.
21 posted on 06/25/2011 9:39:14 PM PDT by wizkid
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To: shibumi
Amongst other things, the post is rather large and took several days to compile plus discussion boards have format limits, otherwise, I might take you up on your suggestion.

Any writing beyond an elementary level relies on literary techniques. They are not suitable for children as they would sail over their heads.. By definition, a topic paragraph should be compelling. It should also promote discussion which mine certainly has done. I have already provided a detailed analysis of it via a separate reply to help clear up any confusion. Per your request, I have already provided you with a detailed outline and have clarified other items. As far as seeking your hit, please do not read my blog post as you probably will not enjoy it.

In regards to the pimping allegation:

I am a conservative blogger who has received consistently high comments. My post involves the importance of self reliance and uses biblical references for support. In my book, that is about as conservative as one can get.

I have conscientiously joined in every discussion for the small number of items that I have posted and have attempted to respectfully respond to all comments directed to me. Even to the extreme of providing a detailed outline and analysis of my title, excerpt, comment and tags.

My post involves sharing research that has shown to accurately predict success and happiness in life. This is certainly an important topic.
22 posted on 06/25/2011 11:06:48 PM PDT by wizkid
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To: wizkid
"Per your request, I have already provided you with a detailed outline and have clarified other items. As far as seeking your hit, please do not read my blog post as you probably will not enjoy it. "

You are probably right.

I generally do not enjoy arrogant pedantry.
23 posted on 06/26/2011 12:01:14 AM PDT by shibumi (The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water and breeds reptiles of the mind - Blake)
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To: shibumi

If you somehow took offense to my comment, please accept my apologies.

You mentioned that you felt I was cajoling you to read my post so I was telling you not to bother because you would not like it. Based on your comments, it seemed obvious to me that it was not for you.

I honestly do not want to waste your time and would rather have one person read it and enjoy than have a thousand people read it and have a bad time.

Hope there are no hard feelings.
24 posted on 06/26/2011 12:24:42 AM PDT by wizkid
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To: shibumi

Doesn’t matter if you’re bi-sacksual.


25 posted on 06/26/2011 3:24:11 PM PDT by tal hajus (ever the cynic)
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To: wizkid
When I lived there in the sixties, there were no poor people: only Rocket Scientists, Engineers and Computer Programmers
26 posted on 06/26/2011 7:11:05 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: higgmeister
We must have lived in a different 60's.

In my 1960's, there were plenty of poor people.

In fact, I visited Galveston recently where I lived for some time in my childhood and the same projects were right down the street from my old house.
27 posted on 06/26/2011 8:32:00 PM PDT by wizkid
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To: wizkid
In my 1960's, there were plenty of poor people.

You were in Huntsville Alabama in 1965?

The Saturn 1B rocket was being built then.

Where most Southern towns rolled up the sidewalks at 06:00 PM, "The Rocket City" was open 24/7. The tremendous local population explosion included the German Rocket Scientists from Peenemünde along with a very large contingent of Military and Industry professionals to support our "Giant Step for Mankind." You could count the poor people in Huntsville back then on your fingers.

The Davis Hills subdivision where we lived sprang up almost overnight. Day-by-day on a previously empty street there would be suddenly six or seven foundations, each with four basement walls and a slab. The next day they had four walls and a roof dried in for each home. The next day they had the bathrooms plumbed and tiled, with the painters racing to keep up. This happened with waves of houses all over the city back then. I even got a job cleaning up after the construction and sprigging Bermuda Grass in the new yards out in the blazing sun.

28 posted on 06/26/2011 9:26:10 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: higgmeister
Thanks for clarifying. It sounds like it must have been a wonderful place. No, I was in Galveston not Huntsville. Galveston also benefited from the space program due to its proximity to "Houston Control."

Huntsville was used as the backdrop for my post because it is the latest victim of HUD poverty decentralization programs. Huntsville was a good choice because it is a midsized southern city that people normally do not associate with crime and poverty.

People soon will though. The Huntsville Housing Authority has already demolished the Council Courts Projects near the medical center and have moved many of the residents to luxury apartment complexes that the Housing Authority has purchased on the south side of town.

Like many once great Southern cities, Huntsville will soon spiral out of control. Do you know that Atlanta, Birmingham, Orlando, Memphis and Miami now make up 5 of the top 7 most dangerous cities in the US? If you include St. Louis, which is a border city, six out of seven are Southern, leaving only Detroit as the only non-southern one.

The 11 Most Dangerous Cities

It turns out that they have all become victims of the poorly thought out plan to disperse poverty. First HUD broke the families, a lot of them black, with welfare dependency in concentrated projects and now they are dispersing these people throughout cities all over the South. A policy that has been shown to increase overall violent crime rates and tip marginal communities into poverty, thus increasing the overall poverty rate too.

Why Is Memphis the New South Bronx?

Local experts offer an unsettling answer: demolition of low-income housing projects isn’t eradicating crime and poverty by giving residents a fresh start—it’s just decentralizing and relocating the problem.

The big difference between then and now is the poverty of spirit nowadays. Instead of being proud and self reliant, a whole generations had been raised to be dependent and feel entitled.

It is one of the great unpublished news stories of our day. One that you will not hear widely publicized in our major media because it would not make our President look good. Their is also to much graft to be had on building projects.
29 posted on 06/27/2011 7:29:55 PM PDT by wizkid
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