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Honduras? Why would ATF walk guns to Honduras?
sipseystreetirregulars ^ | 7 July, 2011 | Mike Vanderboegh

Posted on 07/08/2011 4:12:40 AM PDT by marktwain

Honduras? Why would ATF walk guns to Honduras? 1. The national scope of the Gunwalker Scandal & 2. Because that's where some of the action is.

"It's just another little garden-variety act of war between hemispheric friends. What's the big deal?"

"Why would ATF walk guns to Honduras?" asks a reader. That's easy.

First, and this is important to understand: the Tampa operation proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that "Project Gunwalker" was a national strategy, not a Phoenix aberration. The "major media" has been slow to understand this. They have ignored the fact that the Houston Field Division had to have played a supervisory role in known straw buying incidents in Dallas and Columbus NM as they are in their area of operations, not Phoenix's. Original reporting on this subject from Texas has been pitiful.

Second, Honduras is where the action is.

As Borderland Beat reported back in November of last year, Honduras: Mexican Cartels Work Closely with Street Gangs.

Attorney General Roy David Urtecho says that street gangs in his country are seeking to establish direct business contacts with Colombian and Mexican cartels and they have also tried to take over all drug smuggling operations in the Central American nation of Honduras.

The gangs known as MS-13 and M-18, have recruited over 70,00 youths who have traditionally been the lookouts and sicarios for the capos, but they are now making an effort to take formal control of the drug trade within their own country.

Commenting at an international forum on law enforcement, Urtecho says that the Sinaloa cartel is one of the main groups that maintain a heavy presence in the area, and states that his country is an imprtant gateway for Colombian drugs to enter Mexico and the United States. He went further to say that Joaquín El Chapo Guzmán has stayed in Honduras at various times and continues to do so to this very day.

Writing at Insight on 14 April, Patrick Cocoran has more: Mexican Cartels Expand into Honduras

Honduran officials report that Mexican drug traffickers are expanding their activities in the country and forming links with local bosses in four different provinces, fuelling concerns that organized crime is overwhelming the region.

According to Prensa Latina, Security Minister Oscar Alvarez said that the Sinaloa Cartel and the Zetas have been detected in Ocotepeque, Copan, Colon and Atlantida. The four northern states form much of the Atlantic coastline in Honduras, as well as a large chunk of the border with Guatemala. The Mexicans, Alvarez said, move freely throughout these regions, but rather than seeking to take over areas, the foreign gangs are working through already existing networks of local bosses to increase their presence and expand their operations.

This comes weeks after the discovery of a cocaine-processing lab, which are typically found in the Andean producer nations. This is the first such finding in Central America, and suggests a threat that is mutating. Currently, an estimated 400 tons of cocaine pass through the region on an annual basis, but Central America has not historically been a cocaine-processing region. Alvarez says that the goal for Honduras is to prevent Mexican gangs from laying down enduring roots in the country.

Authorities say that the Honduran cocaine lab was operated by the Sinaloa cartel. Arms stores belonging to the same group have also been captured in Honduras. The shift of cocaine processing from the Colombia, Peru and other Andean nations to Central America could fundamentally shift the economics of the cocaine supply chain. Rather than the South Americans controlling two vital steps in the process—i.e. the collection of the coca base and its processing in laboratories to produce crystallized cocaine—the Colombians would be left just supplying the base. This, in turn, would allow the Mexicans to derive significantly more profit, because instead of buying kilos of cocaine for up to $3,000, they can pay just $1,000 for the base and process it themselves, before selling it in U.S. for up to thirty times that amount.·

Furthermore, this would shorten the distance that the cocaine needs to travel, which would both lower the transportation costs and decrease the chance of seizure. As a major center of operations, Central America is all the more appealing because the weaker law-enforcement agencies mean that there is less chance that expensive cocaine will be seized, which further reinforces the profitability of a northward shift.·

The threat from organized crime to Central America is arguably more serious than in any other region of the Western Hemisphere. The isthmus has been a vital trafficking route ever since the restriction of the Caribbean route connecting the Colombian jungles to the retail markets in Miami and the rest of the United States. However,·the past decade has brought about a particular significant deterioration of security in Central America, with murder rates in Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador among the highest in the world.

The incursion of Mexican drug traffickers has been most widely reported in Guatemala, as the Guatemalan government has struggled to prevent the incursion of the Zetas into states like Alta Verapaz and Peten. (Of course, there have also been reports that, far from combating them, elements of the Guatemalan governments are actually selling arms to groups linked to the Zetas.) Street gangs in Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador like MS-13 and M-18 have also forged stronger links with the Mexican gangs.

Geoffrey Ramsey, also writing in Insight on 25 April notes "Cable: Honduran Military Supplied Weaponry to Cartels."

As Mexican cartels infiltrate Central America, corrupt elements within the region’s militaries from places like Honduras are providing them with arms far superior to those of local police. But the question remains: Just how many of the weapons used by Mexican cartels come from military stockpiles in Central America versus civilian gun stores in the United States?

The question is central. The source of the guns fueling a war that has left over 36,000 dead in Mexico since December 2006, has governments and advocate groups on both sides of the border pointing fingers. Mexico is reportedly considering suing U.S. gunmakers, reports CBS News.

But gun stores along the U.S. border states are only one source of weaponry used in Mexico. As InSight has reported, Guatemala's military stockpiles have been filtered illegally to the Zetas criminal gang. On top of this, according to a 2008 U.S. diplomatic cable first obtained by WikiLeaks and recently released by McClatchy, the Honduran military has “lost” several U.S.-supplied military weapons in recent years.

The cable, avaliable below, cites a Defense Intelligence Agency report entitled “Honduras: Military Weapons Fuel Black Arms Market,” which noted that the serial numbers on light anti-tank weapons recovered in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico and San Andres Island, Colombia, matched the numbers on guns that had previously been sold to Honduras. In addition to the guns, U.S. authorities seized a number of M433 grenades from criminal groups in Mexico, which were also traced back to the Honduran army.

Such revelations, when paired with recent allegations of high-level government links to drug trafficking in Honduras, present a dim forecast for anti-arms trafficking efforts in Central America. They also add fuel to an already heated debate over the cartels' main source of arms. While testifying to the U.S. Senate on March 30, General Douglas Fraser, the head of the U.S. Southern Command, implied that corrupt military officers in Central America bear most of the responsibility for arming Mexican drug traffickers.

"Over 50 percent of the military-type weapons that are flowing throughout the region have a large source between Central American stockpiles, if you will, left over from wars and conflicts in the past," said Fraser.

Since then, major media outlets like the AFP and McClatchy have picked up the comment, casting it as proof that Central American military arms are fueling Mexico’s drug violence.

But while General Fraser’s comment that over 50 percent of “military-type” weapons come from Central America may be true, it is misleading. The weapons coming from Central America only account for military-grade arms, which include anti-tank weapons as well as M-16 and G36 assault rifles.

The civilian versions of these weapons, such as the AR-15 and the AK-47 variants, account for many more of the seizures made in Mexico, according to several United States Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) sources consulted by InSight. Indeed, ATF agents have repeatedly told InSight that the most commonly carried weapons by cartel foot soldiers are modified, automatic AK-47 variants from Romania and China. These cheaper versions are readily available in many American gun stores and bought, legally, by straw buyers at the behest of middlemen who sell them, illegally, en masse to the cartels in Mexico.

"Middlemen" including the ATF, apparently. One wonders how the Honduran government is going to react to the next lecture from the State Department on how sloppy they are with the military weapons we've sold/given them? Not very well, I would imagine.

Oh, well, just another garden-variety Obama administration act of war on another sovereign nation. What's the big deal? Nothing to see here, citizens. Move along.


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Government; History; Politics
KEYWORDS: atf; banglist; benghazi; clinton; dea; doj; drugcartels; fastandfurious; fbi; gunrunner; gunwalker; hillary; hillaryclinton; holder; honduras; impeachnow; irs; manuelzelaya; melson; porfiriolobo
Several excerpts form other sources in the above blog.
1 posted on 07/08/2011 4:12:44 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: HonCitizen; Girlene; livius; stephenjohnbanker; Son House; ABQHispConservative; Lexinom; okie01; ...
Honduras ping

Freepmail me to be added to / removed from Honduras ping list.
Please ping me to threads of interest.
Logo by kanawa

2 posted on 07/08/2011 4:17:31 AM PDT by don-o (Abolish FReepathons. Be a monthly donor.)
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To: marktwain

I think, since the real objective was to implicate the 2nd Amendment, those involved with the scandal weren’t particular where those guns went.

As long as they could eventually be traced back to having been purchased in a US gun shop.


3 posted on 07/08/2011 4:22:43 AM PDT by Jonty30
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To: marktwain
I am still looking for that gun store that sells full auto Ak-47s. sarc/
4 posted on 07/08/2011 4:32:28 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: marktwain
this seems further into context now ........

Obama Admin Lobbying Honduras To Allow Zelaya Back In? Are You Kidding?

What could possibly be the motive behind this lunacy?

On the last day of December last year, Manuel “Mel” Zelaya, the deposed Honduran president and self-described victim of high-frequency radiation attacks by Israeli mercenaries, vowed to the press that he would return to Honduras. Few outside of Honduras have paid much attention to Zelaya’s MacArthur-esque prediction, but it has become apparent there is more behind his declaration than his usual hyperbole and bombastic absurdities.

Behind the scenes in the Obama administration there appears to be a concerted effort to pressure the democratically elected government of President Porfirio Lobo to dismiss charges of misappropriation of government funds and falsifying documents that are pending against Zelaya. This would open the door for his return to the country, and would be certain to undermine the delicate process of reestablishing democracy and order that is currently taking place in this poor and beleaguered nation.

When Zelaya was removed from office in July of 2009, the Obama administration at first joined with leftist dictators Fidel Castro of Cuba, Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, and Daniel Ortega of Nicaragua in calling for his reinstatement. The Obama White House seemed oblivious to the Honduran constitution, as well as the threat Zelaya posed to the stability of the country and the region. When the courageous Honduran people held firm to their democratic constitution and refused to yield to the pressure exerted by the U.S., the Obama administration found no way of saving face other than reversing course and backing the democratic presidential elections called for by their constitution.

Baby Doc's Back - will Obama Back Aristide?

US revokes visas to pressure Haiti on election

5 posted on 07/08/2011 4:32:58 AM PDT by Elle Bee
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To: Truth29

It’s right next to every gangland arcade.


6 posted on 07/08/2011 4:35:00 AM PDT by Jonty30
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To: marktwain

The Zetas again?

There are rumors that the Zetas are linked to Hezbollah.

Hmmmmmmmm.


7 posted on 07/08/2011 4:37:14 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
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To: vette6387; MetaThought; 60Gunner; XHogPilot; FreedomPoster; Josephat; Prince of Space; ...

8 posted on 07/08/2011 4:37:37 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Guns don't kill people, the obama administration does.)
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To: marktwain

Nice little piece of revenge for Honduras’ leadership telling Obamajaad to get the freak lost, isn’t it? Plus stir up the commie and rogue youth for a takeover.

What exactly is it going to take to get this scum out of our White House?


9 posted on 07/08/2011 4:45:01 AM PDT by RowdyFFC
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To: Erik Latranyi

Treason, sedition, and murder. And yes. hezbullah is everywhere from South America to our border with Mexico now. Not to mention that manuals printed in Iran have been found in the AZ desert.


10 posted on 07/08/2011 4:49:59 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Guns don't kill people, the obama administration does.)
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To: marktwain

Bfl.


11 posted on 07/08/2011 4:54:17 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: The flash mob who won’t leave.)
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To: MestaMachine
Treason, sedition, and murder.

I would think this qualifies as international terrorism, as well.

12 posted on 07/08/2011 4:56:14 AM PDT by kevkrom (Imagine if the media spent 1/10 the effort vetting Obama as they've used against Palin.)
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To: marktwain

sfl


13 posted on 07/08/2011 5:01:43 AM PDT by phockthis
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To: kevkrom

Now obamas attempt to get the commie zelaya back in office.


14 posted on 07/08/2011 5:02:59 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: The flash mob who won’t leave.)
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To: kevkrom

I would think so too. This is growing the minute. It is possibly the very worst criminal undertaking by any rogue government in the western hemisphere bar none. And this IS a full-fledge ROGUE government that is so far out of control, I don;t know how we stop this..


15 posted on 07/08/2011 5:04:53 AM PDT by MestaMachine (Guns don't kill people, the obama administration does.)
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To: MestaMachine

Please add me to the Gunwalker Ping list. Thanks.


16 posted on 07/08/2011 5:19:02 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: marktwain
Obama was kicked in the nuts (I don't know how they found them) by Honduras. Those the guns were going to are natural allies of Manuel Zelaya, the Commie, Castro loving, Chavez want-a-be who tried to establish him self as Dictator before being thrown out of the country. Will the guns help take down Honduras's LEGALLY elected government?
17 posted on 07/08/2011 5:30:46 AM PDT by WellyP
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To: WellyP

The Obama Doctrine at work. Communism for all.


18 posted on 07/08/2011 5:36:25 AM PDT by screaminsunshine (Socialism...Easier said than done.)
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To: marktwain
Its the cover up!

It was the cover up that brought Nixon down, This Obama administration is just as guilty of covering up illegal activity. A special prosecutor is needed to investigate the ATF with congressional hearings to bring those responsible to account for their actions.

19 posted on 07/08/2011 5:55:08 AM PDT by 2001convSVT (Going Galt as fast as I can.)
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To: Jonty30

Could be, but I think perhaps if a major gun crisis were to be created that is beyond the ability of control by any combination of governmental resources then the ultimate choice we could expect from these gun grabbers would be a tossing up of the hands, and chaos, or legislation outlawing guns of any kind.

I smell a setup.


20 posted on 07/08/2011 5:59:07 AM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, call 'em what you will, they ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: Elle Bee; WellyP

I think it’s related to Obama’s hatred of Honduras, too. I’m not sure whether it was intended to get weapons to Zelaya’s band (and as in Colombia, the drug gangs are very tied in with the radical leftists) or whether it was intended to give the US some “excuse” to intervene in Honduras.

But whatever it was, it wasn’t an accident.


21 posted on 07/08/2011 6:11:51 AM PDT by livius
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To: don-o

Obama’s evil knows no bounds.


22 posted on 07/08/2011 6:25:26 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: Erik Latranyi
There are rumors that the Zetas are linked to Hezbollah.

Hit your library for a copy of "Why Geography Matters" - there's a chapter with maps of jihadi infiltration through South America.

23 posted on 07/08/2011 6:37:53 AM PDT by nina0113
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To: marktwain
Gunwalker: Laying it all out.

Now we know why Hillary Clinton and Obama were falling all over themselves to support and prop-up the Honduran Marxist dictator-wannabe, Manuel Zelaya back in 2009. I never could figure out why they would create such blatantly unflattering, pro-Marxist optics for the Obama regime for a small country like Honduras. Now it all makes perfect sense. Zelaya attempted to overthrow the Honduran constitution and install himself as dictator for life, a la Hugo Chavez. The Honduran Congress AND Supreme Court followed their Constitutional Rule of Law to the letter and removed Zelaya. Within hours Obama and Clinton were threatening Honduras and demanding that the Marxist dictator Zelaya be re-installed. Now we know why. Obama and Clinton were arming Zelaya and were coordinating with Zelaya to run arms through Honduras. Presumably the deal was that some of the arms would stay with Zelaya and most would move into Mexico from the South. Then, Obama and Clinton could "find" U.S. guns in Southern Mexico and Central America, and thus use these optics to bolster their false contention that "90%" of Mexican guns were sourced directly from the U.S. "See? U.S. guns are all the way down in Chiapas State and Guatemala. U.S. guns are everywhere! The Second Amendment simply is not feasible any longer!"

24 posted on 07/08/2011 6:42:17 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." - Bertrand de Jouvenel des Ursins)
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To: Jonty30

There is no doubt in my mind that you are absolutely right. All the wordy discussions tend to obscure the ultimate intent. It was/is to make the USA the guilty party to the world and take away rights conferred by the Second Amendment. It is a raw and exposed criminal act! And those involved should face severe punishment.


25 posted on 07/08/2011 7:39:04 AM PDT by pepperdog (Why are Democrats Afraid of a Voter ID Law?)
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To: marktwain
Bttt.

5.56mm

26 posted on 07/08/2011 7:46:09 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: don-o

Well well well, the circle goes ‘round and here we are with two major international plots coming together under one umbrella. And what, or rather who, is the common thread? Hillary Clinton.


27 posted on 07/08/2011 12:23:09 PM PDT by TigersEye (Wranglers not Levis. Levi Strauss is anti-2nd Amendment.)
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To: Nachum

I submit a ping to this thread for your consideration.


28 posted on 07/08/2011 12:27:46 PM PDT by TigersEye (Wranglers not Levis. Levi Strauss is anti-2nd Amendment.)
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To: MestaMachine

Please add me to the gunwalker ping list- thanks!


29 posted on 07/08/2011 9:50:08 PM PDT by flowergirl
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