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So were Piers Morgan and Christiane Amanpour dishonest about crime rates last night?
johnrlott.blogspot.com ^ | 20 December, 2012 | John Lott

Posted on 12/22/2012 9:47:47 AM PST by marktwain

From my appearance last night on CNN.

LOTT: Every place that guns have been banned, murder rates have gone up. You cannot point to one place, whether it's Chicago or whether it's D.C. or whether it's been England of whether it's been Jamaica or Ireland.

MORGAN: I'm sorry, but that's just a complete lie. It's a complete lie. The gun murder rate in Britain is 35 a year, average. You need to stop repeating a blatant lie, about what happens in other countries. [cross talk] No, you're not going to get away with this. You lied about it the other day. Thirty-five gun murders a year in Britain, eleven to twelve thousand in America. Stop lying, because what you say drives Americans to defend themselves.

After Morgan then claimed multiple times that I had lied, the video then shows that I tried to explain that there is a difference between levels and changes. In an obvious setup, Christiane Amanpour claimed that the murder rate in the UK had initially been flat after the ban and then fell.

Amanpour: After Dunblane, they put in these bans, they put in these punishments, fines, jail sentences, etc. and its true that straight afterwards there wasn't a huge change, but 2002/2003 until 2011 the rate plummeted by 44%.

Amanpour was clearly taking about the number of homicides so here is a chart for that (source here see Table 1.01 and the column marked "Number of offences currently recorded as homicide"). She is right that there were substantial increases in law enforcement activity, which one suspects should have been associated with reduced crime rates, but, even with that, how can she make the claims that she did about homicides?

(Excerpt) Read more at johnrlott.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Education; History; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; chistianeamanpour; guncontrol; johnlott; lott; piersmorgan; secondamendment; thedailymail; unitedkingdom
Many charts and figures at the site.
1 posted on 12/22/2012 9:47:51 AM PST by marktwain
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To: marktwain
It's the total homicide rate (outside of 'rat hellholes) that counts.

I've heard that Britain has a higher rate than the US.

2 posted on 12/22/2012 9:50:59 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: marktwain

You should never trouble an Anti-Constitutionalist with the truth; their stunted cognitive abilities cannot process such information.

But then you already know that. Keep hammering away.


3 posted on 12/22/2012 9:52:02 AM PST by txnativegop (Fed up with zealots)
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To: marktwain
how can she make the claims that she did about homicides?

She is a shill for Big Government. Propaganda is the name of the game, and lying is an essential tool of the trade.

4 posted on 12/22/2012 9:52:33 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Republicans have made themselves useless, toothless, and clueless.)
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To: marktwain

When sharia indoctrination kicks in I’m sure Piers/Christiane-land will become the new shining city on the hill.


5 posted on 12/22/2012 9:53:07 AM PST by RckyRaCoCo (I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery, IXNAY THE TSA!)
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To: marktwain

They are repeating “The Big Lie”

The are citing counts of mass shootings - counted as shootings where more then 4 people were killed

What that leaves out is the many POTENTIAL mass shootings that were STOPPED BY SOMEONE WITH A GUN where they were only able to kill a few people before they were stopped

As my tagline says: There are Lies, Damed Lies, Statistics, and Democrap Talking Points


6 posted on 12/22/2012 9:57:55 AM PST by Mr. K (There are lies, dammed lies, statistics, and democrap talking points.)
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To: Paladin2
The nut cutting takes place at the level of ethnotype classification. American 'white not hispanic' folks have assault, aggravated assault, homicide, suicide, murder ~ of whatever type RATES lower than just about anybody of the same ethnic classification anywhere on the planet.

American 'black, not hispanic' folks also have violent crime rates lower than their counterparts anywhere on the planet.

I haven't gotten into the 'white hispanic' and 'black hispanic' rates because the Fibbies don't publish enough information to be definitive ~ but odds are good their rates are lower than those of others of the same ethnotypical classification anywhere on the planet.

When you dig deeper ~ into Englishmen vs. Americans of substantially English ancestry, and Swedes vs. Americans of substantially Swedish ancestry, and so on, our rates are always lower than their rates ~ to the degree such things may be determined.

Widespread gun ownership undoubtedly contributes to a degree of politeness here not found elsewhere.

7 posted on 12/22/2012 10:02:11 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: sauropod

review


8 posted on 12/22/2012 10:03:22 AM PST by sauropod (I will not comply)
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To: marktwain

Were their lips moving???


9 posted on 12/22/2012 10:03:59 AM PST by Dick Bachert (An ARMED society is a POLITE society!)
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To: muawiyah

It’s also interesting to combat some of the lies I’ve seen spewed by others about the US having the highest homicide rate in the world, which simply shows a lack of any sort of knowledge on anything.

There is not a single nation that I’m aware of located south of the United States that has a lower murder rate than what we have in this country.


10 posted on 12/22/2012 10:17:11 AM PST by CaspersGh0sts
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To: CaspersGh0sts

Chile and maybe Argentina. They both have pretty low homicide rates, especially for the Americas.


11 posted on 12/22/2012 10:36:33 AM PST by Theoria (Romney is a Pyrrhic victory.)
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To: marktwain
The Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy agrees with John Lott; More Guns = Less Crime

Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive

WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCE MURDER AND SUICIDE?, A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence by Don B. Kates and Gary Mauser, Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pp. 649-694)

From the above article:

CONCLUSION

This Article has reviewed a significant amount of evidence from a wide variety of international sources. Each individual portion of evidence is subject to cavil—at the very least the general objection that the persuasiveness of social scientific evidence cannot remotely approach the persuasiveness of conclusions in the physical sciences. Nevertheless, the burden of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, especially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra.149 To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world, both male and female. Compared to the U.S., the suicide rate for males ages 15 to 24 years in Sri Lanka is nearly four times greater; the female rate nearly 13 times greater. The most common mode of suicide is ingestion of liquid pesticides.” Lawrence R. Berger, Suicides and Pesticides in Sri Lanka, 78 AM. J. PUB. HEALTH 826 (1988).

149. (1) Those who propose to change the status quo bear the burden of proving that change is a good idea; (2) those who propose a new policy bear the burden of proving that the policy is a good idea; and (3) in a free society those who propose to abolish a personal liberty passionately valued by millions bear the burden of proving that abolishment is a good idea. 694 Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy [Vol. 30 Over a decade ago, Professor Brandon Centerwall of the University of Washington undertook an extensive, statistically sophisticated study comparing areas in the United States and Canada to determine whether Canada’s more restrictive policies had better contained criminal violence. When he published his results it was with the admonition:

If you are surprised by [our] finding[s], so [are we]. [We] did not begin this research with any intent to “exonerate” handguns, but there it is — a negative finding, to be sure, but a negative finding is nevertheless a positive contribution. It directs us where not to aim public health resources.150

12 posted on 12/22/2012 10:38:52 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (You cannot prevent evil. You can only defend against it.)
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To: marktwain
When is Piers Morgan not dishonest?
13 posted on 12/22/2012 10:39:54 AM PST by x
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To: marktwain

Conservatives need to stop making rational, fact-based arguments with liberals. Low information voters do not think, they feel. Just about everyone believes in the right of self defense. Touchy-feely stories about grandma defending herself and her cat from thugs or a young minority female shooting a rapist instead of living the rest of her life in fear is very effective when compared to facts and figures.

Personally, I could care less about crime rates and gun control in other countries. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pot, el.al. are the result of gun confiscation. That has nothing to so with everyday crime and everything to do with crimes against humanity. Just wait for the 13th Imam to rise and most of Europe can await their death at the hands of the Muslim horde.


14 posted on 12/22/2012 10:46:05 AM PST by ConservativeInPA (It is impossible to have a good faith negotiations with terrorists or any Muslim.)
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To: txnativegop; marktwain
You should never trouble an Anti-Constitutionalist with the truth; their stunted cognitive abilities cannot process such information.

You're giving the marxists/statists/Progressives/Democrats too much credit for being ignorant or well-meaning.

They're not.

They're making known, volitional choices. They live and breathe Marxism and have turned their backs on God and His laws.

How do you know a liberal is lying? THEIR LIPS ARE MOVING!
15 posted on 12/22/2012 11:03:54 AM PST by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: marktwain

Everything I need to know about Christtiane Amanpour I found hanging on her dining room wall. As a Soprano might say, she’s dead to me.


16 posted on 12/22/2012 11:32:26 AM PST by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: marktwain

Were they dishonest?

Were their lips moving?


17 posted on 12/22/2012 11:41:55 AM PST by DPMD
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To: Theoria

For Chile and Argentina, do they allow the horrific murder and torture scenes of Hollywood and the horrific TV “shows” that the Left enjoys in the USA? and how about the perverted and gross video “Games” that kids play from the time they are 3 years old! I shot a sparrow out of a tree with a BB gun when I was 12, right square in it’s chest, a little red hole or welt, I put J&J First Aid Creme on it’s wound for two days hoping it would get better, it died and I have NEVER thought about shooting another of GOD”S WONDERFUL CREATIONS! But I am so thankful for Our Police and Military that protect us from the Bad Guys and I still have a gun ready for the time I will need it for my protection or others who will need protection from scumbags!
Let us remember that Martin Luther King was an avid REPUBLICAN! Ask yourselves why! The Republican Leadership has lost their way. The Republican Party was founded to end Slavery! Why? Because the Republicans have always believed in the Freedom of the Individual to do all one can do to Live their Lives to the Fullest and to grow and prosper as much as their talents and ethics would allow!
I am really getting p*ssed at the Lemmings in Our Party Leadership! And to have a actual CRYBABY as the House Speaker is dispicable! SCR*W BOEHNER! DUMP HIM NOW!!!!
Hopefully, maybe one of Bonehead’s staff will read this post and actually think about what their real challenge is in D.C.! maybe even my Congresscritter might think about this challenge?


18 posted on 12/22/2012 1:13:02 PM PST by True Republican Patriot (May GOD SAVE OUR AMERICA from ALLAH and his Prophet, HUSSEIN OBAMA!!)
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To: Paladin2

http://www.scribd.com/doc/56181236/Crime-in-Texas-2010-report

Texas 2010 Family Violence: Strong arm = 79%; No weapon = 8%; Knives = 4%; Blunt objects = 3%; Guns = 2%; Other = 5%.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm

Your chances of being murdered by whatever means has fallen by half in Texas since 1960.


19 posted on 12/22/2012 1:56:39 PM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: ConservativeInPA
Touchy-feely stories about grandma defending herself and her cat from thugs or a young minority female shooting a rapist instead of living the rest of her life in fear is very effective when compared to facts and figures.

You are so right, and that is exactly why stories like that are rarely seen in the MSM.

20 posted on 12/22/2012 2:02:56 PM PST by Tammy8 (~Secure the border and deport all illegals- do it now! ~ Support our Troops!~)
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To: marktwain

BTTT


21 posted on 12/22/2012 6:16:03 PM PST by Luigi Vasellini (End the political class.......TERM LIMITS NOW!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: marktwain

The good new is since it was on CNN, hardly anyone saw it, LOL.


22 posted on 12/22/2012 6:17:50 PM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's economic policy: trickle up poverty)
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To: Theoria

Actually, both Chile and Argentina have higher homicide rates than the US, though they are the closest in Latin America.

The US has 5.2 homicides per 100,000, and Argentina has 5.4 while Chile has 8.1.


23 posted on 12/26/2012 11:58:08 PM PST by CaspersGh0sts
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