(gun magazine)
Oh the hugh manatee
Posted on 12/28/2012 6:28:15 AM PST by marktwain
David Gregory needs to please turn himself in to the authorities.
Mr. Gregory has been accused of having a piece of metal of the wrong size. We've all seen the video of him waving that metal box and spring about on Meet The Press, a box and spring that is illegal to posses in the District of Columbia. We can debate the logic and sense of the law and how it is interpreted at a later date. There is no time for that now. Mr. Gregory needs to act before this spins out of control.
He needs to do the right and merciful thing and turn himself in before someone tells a member of the FBI HRT where his family lives.
Officially the penalty for his crime is 1 year in jail. Unofficially the penalty is much, much more. Vicki and Samuel Weaver are sadly unavailable to comment but before their fate is repeated I beseech Mr. Gregory to do the humane thing and surrender himself to the authorities. It's not worth having your children watch their mother die. A year in prison is nothing compared to knowing that your son will never see his 15th birthday because you thought that being punished for having a piece of metal of the wrong size is not a serious matter.
It's a very serious matter. Deadly serious. Turn yourself in, Mr. Gregory. Turn yourself in now.
At the very minimum, Gregory should be placed on the TSA no-fly list.
They are not dead because their cowardly husband/father owned a 30 round mag.
They are dead because one of them murdered a federal marshal and because the other one knowingly harbored a fugitive murderer.
Do not use this controversy to valorize that execrable clown.
(gun magazine)
Oh the hugh manatee
words fail me...
Events at Ruby Ridge are disputed, but some folks say the BATF fired first, taking out the dog as the first action. To me, that sounds highly typical. The family responded in kind.
Gun confiscation, or any infringement of the RKBA is a serious matter. I don't put anyone on a pedestal, but I'm not so sure that Weaver qualifies as an "execrable clown".
i’m sure there are plenty of people serving time for this crime
why shouldn’t he be charged?
Agree. The USMS, FBI, BATFE, and DOJ acted execrably at Ruby Ridge, not the Weavers or Harris. The DOJ OPR Report, Congressional hearings, and civil actions proved so.
Originally. That was months before, and the feds had moved onto another charge - which was also problematic - namely not appearing for arraignment, i.e. being a fugitive.
But the siege was about the death of US Marshal William Degan, not a piece of metal.
The family responded in kind.
No moral person, and certainly no court, would argue that killing a dog is a legitimate excuse for killing a person.
Maybe someone from PETA would make that argument.
On the topic of defending RKBA rights, any rhetorical strategy based on sympathy with Randy Weaver is going to win over absolutely no one who is neutral on the matter.
The right argument to make here is: "I agree with David Gregory's media peers. Charging him with possessing a magazine is obviously stupid. So, I ask Gregory's media peers - what makes Gregory superior to other law-abiding citizens? Why should he be allowed to possess a magazine and the convenience store owner from whom Gregory buys his coffee not be allowed to? If the law is ridiculous for Gregory, why is not ridiculous for every other responsible adult?"
“the siege was about the death of US Marshal William Degan, not a piece of metal.”
Degan died while, and because of, commencing an armed raid on the Weaver home precisely over that half-inch-too-short piece of metal.
The reality of laws regarding minor transgressions, including those involving “a piece of metal”, is: if you do not comply, the state will escalate the issue so far as killing you over it and risking agents’ lives to do so. And that is exactly what happened: Weaver was conned into cutting a piece of metal a half inch too short, was charged for transgression of law prohibiting such a piece of metal (still just a metal tube), he refused to consent to such a stupid unconstitutional law, and the state sent agents to apprehend him with extreme prejudice.
Yes, it was about a piece of metal. That’s how far the state was willing to go because of a piece of metal.
One version says that the BATF shot the dog first, then shot the 14-year-old boy, and in response Kevin Harris shot Marshall Degan.
One government version says that Kevin Harris shot Marshall Degan in an unprovoked fashion, and in response a BATF agent decided to shoot the dog.
The point you make in reference to David Gregory is right on. But on the Ruby Ridge incident you seem to toe the line the Clinton Administration wanted people to swallow.
Not really. The shotgun-sawing was a pretext, as was the missed court date.
If they had tax fraud charges or any number of other federal crimes to use instead, they would have.
The Feds believed that Weaver was their way to infiltrate a number of radical groups in the Pacific Northwest.
The charges were a means of getting leverage over Weaver to inspire him to become a confidential informant.
They didn't realize that Weaver hated the government more than he loved his family.
One of many poor judgments during the entire case.
Incorrect.
Clinton version: "We did an awesome job. It's a shame things got a bit out of hand, but in the end it was great work on our part!"
Alex Jones version: "Randy Weaver is a selfless American hero! The FBI couldn't stand to see a proud and free man stand unbowed, so they launched a nationwide conspiracy to bring him to heel!"
Reality: Randy Weaver is a sociopathic loser who talked a big game, but chose to let his wife and children pay the price while preserving his own life. His shiftless paranoia was confronted by an ATF who were overeager to bust radical groups in the Northwest, but who were too incompetent to put together a fairly basic sting operation. They botched it, escalated the situation to a red hot frenzy and turned an arrest warrant into a needlessly violent siege.
It is not paranoia if they really are out to get you. Weaver was found not guilty and the federal government paid millions in an out of court settlement. Blaming Weaver for this incident is the classic case of blaming the victim.
“...They didn’t realize that Weaver hated the government more than he loved his family.
One of many poor judgments during the entire case.”
I follow you up to this point. Then - - -
You seem to say that if Weaver loved his family, he would have cooperated with, in some manner, the government. That he was selfish (in his beliefs?) and sacrificed his family.
I will posit that he hated the government because he loved his family. They were pursuing him where he lived with his family, thus they were also pursuing his family (which they did).
I belabor this point because the government is now pursuing me (taxation, obamacare, EPA regulation, and finally gun registration and fingerprinting). At what point do I cave because my wife and kids depend on my income? Do I sacrifice my convictions for their security.
Oops, I started to sound like Ben Franklin there for a moment. Maybe I have answered myself.
Agreed. Some people will side with authority no matter what evils they perform. Make no mistake, what the government did at Ruby Ridge was evil plain and simple.
Remember, AG Janet Reno's No. 2 at DoJ during the Waco Siege was Eric Holder. This same Eric Holder and Obama want to do for Americans what they accomplished in Mexico with Operation FAST AND FURIOUS.
August 1992 -- It was the GHWB administration.
Of course, the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama continuum has not wavered on the continuing JBT abuse of citizens.
The ATF is out to get anybody if that person can lead to a promotion-inducing collar. It wasn't personal - it was business.
Weaver was found not guilty and the federal government paid millions in an out of court settlement.
Actually Weaver was found guilty and served prison time. And the government paid his daughters $1mm each on the condition that all disbursements were accounted for by a trustee and that Weaver himself was prevented access to their money.
He received $100k.
Blaming Weaver for this incident is the classic case of blaming the victim.
The real victim was William Degan.
Weaver and the ATF were the bad actors here. Both deliberately undertook actions that they knew were wrong and they undertook those actions with the intent of escalating violence and confrontation. And then both allowed third parties to suffer the consequences of their decisions.
from what i recall, the short shotgun, the fbi/atf was fishing for anything they could to have an excuse to go after him. i believe the undercover guy from the alphabet agency asked him to modify a shotgun for him. under the cover of being a friend with similar views. this was the only thing they could get to justify going after him the way they did.
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