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Move Over Boomers -- Gen-X And Gen-Y in the Coming Decades <p>
self | 01/24/2004 | MeadsJN

Posted on 01/25/2004 3:22:20 AM PST by meadsjn

Move Over Boomers

Gen-X And Gen-Y in the Coming Decades

It should now be obvious to all but the most stubborn of partisans that the elitist baby-boomers of both parties are leading the nation toward a state of crisis similar to the years of the Great Depression and World War II.

Only a handful of our elected politicians even pretend to represent the best interests of "ourselves and our posterity". Most of them advocate and implement policies that are clearly detrimental to the survival of the nation and its people. Why? Why are they amassing public debt that can only leave future generations fiscally crippled? Why are they opening up the borders, driving down incomes and causing record numbers of home foreclosures and personal bankruptcies? Why do they look the other way as the wealth and productive capacity of the nation is outsourced to foreign countries that are not even our allies? Why do they steadfastly refuse to reform the regulations and taxation that have driven our industries off shore and caused the unemployment of millions of Americans? Why do our policies regularly discriminate against the productive people of this nation and reward the miscreants? And the big question is: why do the people keep electing these same people over and over? And when will they ever just go away?

The simple answer would be that our politicians are crooks and liars, and in most cases today that would be the truth. Our country has had such people aspire to and win public office throughout its history, but crookedness and deceit have become epidemic in the last couple of decades. Corporate America has likewise suffered the same symptoms of unraveling exhibited by government. Business leaders of the last two decades have set records in their quest to lead once prosperous and stable companies to ruin, likewise leaving formerly prosperous and stable communities in ruins.

If these symptoms had been consistent throughout our history, the nation could not have survived over 200 years, yet they have been observed and documented at specific intervals during the life of the nation and before. The theory that nations pass through life cycles is not new and is not unique to any one culture or people. What is not widely understood is that there is regularity to the cycles and generational rhythms that can be measured and described with sufficient accuracy to predict the collective behavioral trends of generations at various stages of their lives.

In The Fourth Turning, authors Neil Howe and William Strauss provide an excellent perspective on the cycles of America's history, the generations that shaped those cycles of history, and the generations that are currently in play as we enter another Fourth Turning (crisis era). This book was published in 1997, prior to Clinton's impeachment, yet has some accurate predictions of trends that have developed in the five years since, and some predictions of trends to expect in the next few years.

The cycles start with a High (i.e. 1946-64), an era of high productivity and spirit, followed by an Awakening (i.e. 1965-1984), an era of rebellious and self-centered enlightenment, drift into an Unraveling (i.e. 1985-2005?), during which the fabric of society seems to waste away, leading into a Crisis (2005?-?), a time of economic distress or a major war, or both, when the life of the nation hangs by a thread. Wars occur for almost every generation, but the wars of crisis eras tend to be total wars, wherein the shape of society and the direction of the nation are indisputably altered. The underlying thesis proposed by Howe and Strauss is that "history shapes generations, and generations shape history".

There is little doubt where we are in the current cycle if the patterns of history hold true, and there is absolutely no reason to believe we are exempt from the powerful forces of generational shifts that have occurred with stunning regularity for centuries.

My purpose is not to sell anyone's book, although it is a great work. My concern is for our own time and place in history, our families, and our nation. Plenty of people may disagree with my observations or take umbrage with my expressions of such, but it is time to call a spade a spade.

The society of this late Unraveling era is a like a runaway train, rushing downhill toward a deep chasm, and the Boomers and post-GI Silents have been dismantling the bridge to the 21st century for the last couple of decades. Avoiding a crash will be a most unlikely outcome. Whether the younger generations can clear away the wreckage and rebuild the nation remains to be seen.

There is hope, and it is not to be found in the leadership and policies of the destructive Boomers and Silents that have already brought us to the point of disaster. In a few short years, the Boomers and their elders will be irrelevant to the course of the nation, other than forever bearing the blame for its near destruction.

According to the 2000 census, the Boomers and older Silents had a combined total of 122,627,672 eligible voters, with registered voters roughly split at 40/40 between Democrat and Republican and roughly 20% undecided or otherwise confused. Their collective numbers will only get less as they die off. The record shows that death hasn't deterred many Democrat voters, so they may hold steady at about 50 million or so for national elections, but that still will not be enough to keep their party relevant.

In 2000, the Gen-X and Gen-Y population had a combined total of 71,551,276 eligible voters.

In 2004, the Gen-X and Gen-Y population will have a combined total of 87,643,964 eligible voters.

In 2008, the Gen-X and Gen-Y population will have a combined total of 104,119,805 eligible voters. This will probably be the pivot point where the Boomer elite will start losing control over public policy, forevermore.

In 2012, the Gen-X and Gen-Y population will have a combined total of 120,704,207 eligible voters, and will be unlikely to share power with the older generations that shredded the economy and the culture, and sacrificed the sovereignty of the US for political points and campaign cash.

Younger voters today are more conservative and nationalistic than any generation we have known since WW-II, and they will become more so as the Fourth Turning crisis develops. The crude examples of Gen-Xers as displayed in the media (tree huggers, anarchists, eco-terrorists) are a small minority and are not representative of the generation as a whole.

The oldest Gen-Xers have been in the workforce since 1982. The oldest Gen-Y citizens started entering the workforce in 2002. What these younger people have seen is that the policies of business and government have been anti-merit, anti-American, counter-productive, overly complex and under-effective, and they have watched as the fabric of our culture and economy has been unraveled. They have watched as the boomers wasted millions upon millions on projects that failed because complexity and process were favored over success. They have seen their prospects for a piece of the American dream flushed down the toilet of socialist taxation and statist regulation.

When the crisis settles in solidly, with little room left to debate that it really is a crisis, we can expect these two younger generations to strongly exert their growing influence to pull the nation out of the hole. It will be a repeat of the two Generations that pulled the nation through the Great Depression and World War II. Once the Gen-Xers and Gen-Yers get motivated, their unity and determination to survive and succeed will surpass any generational effort the world has seen since World War II.

It will be interesting times.

Relatively few members of the populace were here to see the last Crisis era of the Great Depression and World War II, and their numbers are rapidly diminishing. Of the 14,344,217 remaining WW-II Hero generation (as of the 2000 census), those that can still make it to the polls will overwhelmingly vote with the younger generations that are replaying the Hero roles from the pinnacle of their lives.

Younger voters do tend to ignore elections until events and their peers energize them. A few renegade younger voters will adhere to their socialist indoctrination or will continue to take their Ritalin, and thus will be unreliable or dysfunctional. Their more active peers will persuade some of them to vote and act along the lines of national survival. The nature of a crisis era tends to unify and energize the younger adults in just such a manner.

When significant numbers of the younger voters become energized, their participation will increase at a phenomenal rate. They will more effectively use available technology to activate and persuade their age groups than any other existing voting bloc.

As the crisis era develops, and the younger voters get more active in politics and society, their message and determination will convince many of the older voters to relinquish their grip. The liberal Boomers will hang on the tightest because (1) they are inherently the most selfish, and (2) fewer of them have offspring (surviving) whose future they might consider.

What the Gen-Xers, and subsequently the Gen-Yers, will discover is that about half of the eligible voters of the Boomer generation regularly stay away from the polls, mostly because they don't have and haven't had representation from either party. That will change as the crisis deepens and the existing parties continue to offer the same failed policies, while the younger generations start demanding effectiveness and suggesting solutions that will work.

The solutions that will be proposed by the Gen-Xers will be straightforward and effective; the cost may be high when necessary (picture Eisenhower on D-Day, MacArthur in the Pacific). If there is a big war of this crisis era, it may very well be fought on US soil, and the sacrifices could be greater than World War II. The economic prelude to such a war started several years ago, and the Silent and Boomer elites refuse to recognize it as such. Either that, or they are party to its prosecution.

It simply is not true that Boomers will run the show indefinitely. In spite of their zealous attempts to live forever, they are faithfully passing from the scene at about the same rates as previous generations. The Gen-X and Gen-Y voters will dominate the body politic by 2012, and possibly as soon as 2008. All that is needed to correct the course of the nation is for them to get energized and united on the critical issues.

The liberals will only be able to hold a small minority of the Gen-X voters. The Republicans will be able to garner more of their votes, as the Gen-X voters are increasingly rejecting socialism and the Republican Party currently appears to be the only viable alternative. If the Republicans continue their skid to the left and continue to build up debt against the future of the Gen-X and Gen-Y voters, a new political party will become a highly saleable idea, possibly in time for the 2008 elections. Abe Lincoln, the first Republican president, came into office with the primary goal of preserving the union. It would be fitting that the next new major party to take power start with a similar objective, when both the Republicans and the Democrats are advocating policies that are sure to plunge the nation into the dark ages.

Although the Gen-Xers, as a whole, have a reputation for being free agents, latchkey kids, loners, bad kids, scapegoats, and risk takers, they will outgrow these labels. One label they will not outgrow is that of "survivor". As they move into midlife, the Gen-Xers are becoming more conservative and family centered, even as events pull them away or keep them away from their families. The Gen-Yers started life with closer family ties than either the Gen-Xers or Boomers, and they will cherish those memories and follow the Gen-Y leaders who try to rebuild from the Boomer wreckage.

Boomers created this. They must fix it.

Absolute hogwash. Boomer liberals grew up thinking they "knew it all" and as a consequence they rendered themselves incapable of learning anything. They protested their way through college, majoring in fluff and diversity, and entered the working world qualified to do absolutely nothing constructive. These same morons, later concerned about the marketability of their foolish educational pursuits, returned to school to capture the more lucrative law and MBA degrees. Then these cretins created markets for the legions of other similarly mis-educated fools. In a nutshell, that is why our government and businesses are failing.

The idea that these same squish-brained idealists can now "see the light" and become reformers of their own destruction would be laughable if it wasn't so dangerous.

Look at the situation from their selfish point of view.

True to form, the Boomers in old age are as much beset with conflicting fantasies as during the haze of the 1960s and 1970s.

Given a choice, the Boomer liberals would send the younger generations off to die in some nameless cause supporting our enemies. The Boomer Republicans are at least fighting our enemies, but they too are importing so many immigrants that future generations of citizens will be financially crippled and their standard of living will equal that of current third world countries.

The following message came from one disgruntled, but astute, Gen-Xer:

Even though many of the people of my generation in general are angry, anger can be a good thing because anger can lead to action, Like I said The biggest problem in my generation and the Ys is too many don't bother to vote or get involved but I am hoping as time goes by and their anger grows they will.

This anger towards the baby boomers is different from the past. In the past previous hostility between generations usually faded away as the younger generation matured. In today's case, I see the opposite happening with hostility toward the older baby boomers growing as the X & Ys age. The reason is because we have been propagandized during school and in the media on how great the 60s were and how enlightened the baby boomers are and it's not until we age that we start to see the damage to this country they and their "good intentions" have done. They are in power now and I feel in order to go forward we have to break the "Myth" of the baby boomers which would help in starting to get them out of power and undoing the damage they done.
...
Actually a big pitfall I see ahead is I think initially when the baby boomers start to retire we are going to have an upturn in the economy as many jobs will all of a sudden be available to Gen-X & Y who have to replace them. It will last a little bit giving everybody a sense of ease, Then soon after there will be a big and sudden crash which will take a long time (if ever) to recover from. And if Republicans are in power at the time of the crash they will take the blame and could lose big in the election giving total control back to the Rats that will only make things much worse.

In T3, remember how Arnold's character convinced John Conner that "anger is better than despair". Ironically, the major war of the near future is also a battle against the machines -- the bureaucratic, over-complicated, and malfunctioning machinery of business and government.

Throughout the last two decades, businesses tried on every management and technical fad that came down the pike, with little regard to whether the experiments added real benefit to their processes or bottom line.

Since the middle 1980s the success rate for large (over $10 million) software projects has remained steady at a big fat zero percent (Software Magazine 12/99). Technology projects produce tons of paper through increasingly complicated processes, and project failure is the rule rather than the exception. This is because form is valued over function, symbolism over substance, intentions over results, and process over success. Teamwork and buzzwords are the order of the day. Teams work hard at teamwork, and the team is a celebrated success, but the products and services are such failures that we now must send all the work halfway around the world.

New methodologies spring up, which are simply the old methodologies with new labels and additional layers of obfuscation. Frustrated with repeated project failures, they attempt to streamline the process by eliminating the less relevant steps, perhaps the detailed design. This might make perfect sense in a world where blind highway engineers never see a bridge or drive a vehicle.

This is a standard scenario for an Unraveling era in the cycle of history. The Gen-Xers grow increasingly frustrated as they try to make things work and Boomers gum up the works with ever more complicated processes, meaningless measurements and tons of redundant paperwork. The MBAs leading the charge are often of the Gen-X age group, but they are still trying to employ the methodologies of the 1980s and 1990s. When the failures pile up, the technical work gets outsourced, but the management and the methods stay in place, and the results are generally the same or worse.

The start of retirements for Boomers should have started a recovery, had they simply retired and allowed the younger workers to fill the jobs. Higher productivity with new technology and more streamlined processes would propel the US back to its rightful place among nations. However, the Boomers keep dropping turds in the punchbowl on their way out the door. In their panic to ensure that their selfish needs are met in the years to come, they have decided to flood the nation with immigrants, lowering the wages for all categories of employment. Terrified about their IRA and 401k returns, they set in motion the off shoring of manufacturing and high tech jobs to get the stock market numbers back up to par. Their great off shoring fiasco has already destroyed many of the potential high income jobs for the Gen-X workers, now they want to keep the younger workers out of Burger King with their immigration amnesty programs. Many of the Boomers themselves are remaining in the workforce extra years because their destructive policies have adversely affected their retirement funds.

To the Boomer mind, increasing immigration and off shoring jobs are the right things to do. They want cheap products, and they want more people paying into Social Security. Unfortunately, the jobs that have gone off shore produce no funds for income tax or social security, and the loss of those jobs creates a reverse multiplier effect in our economy.

Increasing immigration results in lower wages for immigrants and American workers. Two workers making $8 per hour as opposed to one worker at $20 per hour will pay much less into income tax and social security. The major disconnect among the Boomers, especially the liberals, is that they are incapable of acknowledging the results of their actions. Their intentions are all that matter to them. Whenever one of their hair-brained ideas produces undesirable results, their solution is another even more hair-brained idea.

Our economy has already sustained the first major devaluation of this Crisis era, and it most likely will sustain more. The Boomers are trying all their complicated money supply manipulations and whatnot to squeeze more blood out of the turnip. There will be some ups, but mostly downs in the economy until the Boomers are replaced in the decision-making positions.

Formerly sane economists are riding the globalist bandwagon, ignoring the fact that nations have always made foreign trade decisions in their own best national interests. The only thing different now is that the damages from foolish economic decisions stack up at the speed of broadband rather than that of the old clipper ships. The economists of the Boomer and Silent generations are oblivious to the fact that their historical Unraveling counterparts also went over the edge to the detriment of their own people. It's time for economists to come down from the money supply clouds and look at the basics again: production, consumption, and distribution.

The only sure way to get the economic engine roaring will be production, American production -- manufacturing, mining, timber, farming, transportation, and all the technology and lateral support needed for those processes. A consumer based economy cannot sustain itself unless the consumers have jobs and income. Even more importantly, a nation at war cannot survive or win without manufacturing. The environmental whackos have to be pushed aside, along with many useless agencies, and the regulations and taxes hindering domestic production must be eliminated.

Gen-Xers must energize and they must vote. They must take their place in the body politic and in business. The decisions made by Gen-X people in government and business will be pragmatic and simple, but effective.

The greatest danger is that during the coming crisis the Democrats might get back into power. FDR used the Great Depression as a vehicle to expand government to a monstrous size. The existing crop of liberal Democrats would turn this nation into a facsimile of NAZI Germany, with or without the fashionable attire. Once back in power, the liberals would use any means to stay there, in spite of what the voters may want.

If the Democrats lose in 2004, as any reasonable person should hope, they might as well hang it up. With relatively fraud-free elections, the voters for the next two decades will continuously move to the right. The Republicans will continue to draw criticism for their capitulation to leftist policies, but will continue to get the votes until a more conservative party presents a viable option to ensure the national survival and recovery.

It is my belief and hope that liberals will enjoy a crushing defeat in 2004, such that they never raise their voices again. In such a case, the Republicans in 2008 could be facing off against a new party of young conservatives backed by all the Boomer conservatives that the Republicans have abandoned.

The Gen-X hostility and frustration is righteous. Many younger Boomers are in the same boat and have been fighting the same battles for twenty or more years.

Things have to change, and they will. The deepening crisis will force the changes. In order for the changes to be in a positive direction (for the United States), the Gen-Xers will have to become leaders. They must be able to push aside what doesn't work, and do what has to be done.

When the fate of the nation is hanging in the balance, the Gen-X leaders and Gen-Y soldiers will hit the beach, and just as for Eisenhower, MacArthur and their troops, a grateful nation will surrender the reins, and render its blessings.




Jeff Meads
01/21/2004


TOPICS: Business/Economy; History; Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS: 2004; 2008; 2012; amnesty; babyboomers; boomers; business; economics; economy; elections; generationy; genx; government; immigration; offshoring; productivity; voters
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To: NotQuiteCricket
At all levels public education in America is boldly blazing a trail to 3rd world literacy right here in the US.

Yeah. It couldn't have worked better if they had planned it that way.

21 posted on 01/25/2004 6:42:11 PM PST by meadsjn
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To: meadsjn
Please, don't paint us all with the same warped brush. Ya wanna attack the hippies and flower children, have at it. But, bear in mind, while a lot of them were doing drugs, enjoying free love and protesting the war, others of us were fighting in a futile "police action" our pre-baby boomer government got us into.

You also don't know what it's like growing up with the prospect of atomic or nuclear war at any time. In all likelihood, you never had an atomic bomb drill in school or ever saw a Civil Defense Shelter sign. You may recall air raid drills that communities used to have, but even those are gone.

With respect to the Constitution, not all boomers took part in undermining it. Yes, the liberal fringe had their way with it and I agree that they did considerable damage to the nuclear family; but that doesn't mean that all or most boomers supported it or participated in it.

Rather than blame boomers in general (which you sort of have and sort of haven't - in all fairness, you have focused on the liberal boomers), why not attack the liberals in general without regard to the generational era?

Liberals, overall, have done a lot of damage to this country and if the Gen X-ers and Gen Y-ers are more conservative for it, hallelujah!! If it's true, there may be hope for this country yet, but I'm not willing to bet the farm on it. A lot of those more conservative Gen X- and Y-ers are also Dean supporters. that doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about their more conservative stance that you have claimed.

As for education, how do you think we all got educated in classrooms that averaged 33 - 35 kids each? Today, the teachers are complaining that they can't handle classrooms with 28 kids and the parents are complaining that Johnny can't learn because the classrooms are overcrowded. Boomers didn't start the downturn in educational standards, those were started by the pre-boomer generation which came up with "new math" and "new English". It only got worse from there.

Finally, take another look at the pictures of the guys who engineered and pushed through the space race. When I clean the crap off of MY bifocals, they look a lot younger than the pre-baby boomer crowd you handed the credit to. Their managers MAY have been pre-boomers, certainly JFK who set the challaenge was a pre-boomer, but the guys who built the rockets and blasted off in fragile tin cans were baby boomers.

Yes, there are problems today; welcome to the real world. If you want paradise, strap a bomb to your chest and blow up a supermarket. In the real world, things aren't perfect, just as they are now. And, also in the real world, people have different ideas. When we can't discuss those ideas and, instead, spend our time accusing one another of causing the problems, what do you expect to happen? There was a time when we were the world's melting pot. We were comprised of different nationalities and different races, but we all came together to be part of the American dream. Then, one day, a pre-boomer came up with the politically correct idea of hyphenating Americans.

I might suggest that you take another listen to that song by Mike and the Mechanix about generations. it applies here.
22 posted on 01/25/2004 7:00:17 PM PST by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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To: meadsjn
Thanks for the Ping. Excellent article.

Only a handful of our elected politicians even pretend to represent the best interests of "ourselves and our posterity". Most of them advocate and implement policies that are clearly detrimental to the survival of the nation and its people. Why? Why are they amassing public debt that can only leave future generations fiscally crippled? Why are they opening up the borders, driving down incomes and causing record numbers of home foreclosures and personal bankruptcies? Why do they look the other way as the wealth and productive capacity of the nation is outsourced to foreign countries that are not even our allies? Why do they steadfastly refuse to reform the regulations and taxation that have driven our industries off shore and caused the unemployment of millions of Americans? Why do our policies regularly discriminate against the productive people of this nation and reward the miscreants? And the big question is: why do the people keep electing these same people over and over? And when will they ever just go away?

I kind of know why, Because there is only 10 things on Baby Boomer's minds Me,Me,Me,Me,Me and Now, Now, Now, Now, Now

There is hope, and it is not to be found in the leadership and policies of the destructive Boomers and Silents that have already brought us to the point of disaster. In a few short years, the Boomers and their elders will be irrelevant to the course of the nation, other than forever bearing the blame for its near destruction.

I disagree with the time frame, The baby boomers are entrenched in positions of power for at least another 10-20 years with more good intention feel good programs to come, Especially in light of the fact that many lived for the moment and haven't saved and we be in the workforce longer than usual. But you are right the Boomers have already secured their place as the Worst Generation in the history of the USA.

There is little doubt where we are in the current cycle if the patterns of history hold true, and there is absolutely no reason to believe we are exempt from the powerful forces of generational shifts that have occurred with stunning regularity for centuries.

I agree though it worse now because never has there been a generation like the Baby Boomers so bent on destroying all the institutions that made America great. A case can be made the "Flappers" of the 20's that lead to the Great Depression were bad but they weren't out there attempting to undermine the country. You have to go back all the way to the end of the Roman Empire to find a Generation and leaders that are as decadent as the modern day Baby Boomers.

In Rome for every Nero and Commodus there was always a Trajan or Severus to follow them to clean up the mess until the very end where the people that could have saved Rome like an Aetius were assassinated by their jealous emperors. In the US for every James Buchanan and Jimmy Carter there was a Lincoln or Reagan to follow to clean up the mess. I am really hoping that continues and we get great Gen-X leaders to come in and pick up the pieces, Lord knows there will be no leaders out of the baby boomers to do it. And though while unlike in Ancient Rome I don't think elitist Baby Boomers will be physically assassinating Gen-Xers but through their hold on the media and academia they will be character assassinating anyone attempting to undo the status quo. 

Boomers created this. They must fix it.

Absolute hogwash.

Ditto and worth repeating. They have done enough already.

This even includes Republican Boomers. It should come to no surprise to anyone that the current crop of Republicans in power right now turned out to be big disappointments (to say the least) because after all they are baby boomers and just because a Baby Boomer has a "R" after their name why would we expect them to act or think any different from the rest of that terrible generation.

Business leaders of the last two decades have set records in their quest to lead once prosperous and stable companies to ruin, likewise leaving formerly prosperous and stable communities in ruins. ..Throughout the last two decades, businesses tried on every management and technical fad that came down the pike, with little regard to whether the experiments added real benefit to their processes or bottom line.

Again I agree. The Baby Boomers like they did with government have destroyed corporate America by instituting massive bureaucracies filled with useless (but highly paid) people. Today you have high paid corporate trainers, Motivation speakers, efficiency experts (that are anything but), Quality Assurance Engineers, Concept designers and their ilk infecting corporations from the top down.  All they do is have endless meetings and stifle production and innovation with their nonsense.  

I am utterly amazed we can even compete at the level we do.   

On a side note, I would advocate the death penalty for the person who came up with the whole concept of "Teams"

The major disconnect among the Boomers, especially the liberals, is that they are incapable of acknowledging the results of their actions. Their intentions are all that matter to them. Whenever one of their hair-brained ideas produces undesirable results, their solution is another even more hair-brained idea.

True enough, But more often or not they look for scapegoats for their failures usually in the form of they need more money. Like Education for example, Even though we spend more money (even adjusted for inflation) per pupil on education than we every did before the Liberal Boomers still consistently claim we need even more.

23 posted on 01/25/2004 7:07:33 PM PST by qam1 (Are Republicans the party of Reagan or the party of Bloomberg and Pataki?)
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To: qam1
than we every ever did before
24 posted on 01/25/2004 7:12:07 PM PST by qam1 (Are Republicans the party of Reagan or the party of Bloomberg and Pataki?)
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To: qam1
On a side note, I would advocate the death penalty for the person who came up with the whole concept of "Teams"

I sense you are feeling some hostility, and that can be a destructive element in our efforts to reach consensus. We need to work through these feelings and return to a level of discourse where we can discuss the issues of cognitive conflict between us. :)

25 posted on 01/25/2004 7:34:36 PM PST by meadsjn
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To: Khurkris
Well said.
26 posted on 01/25/2004 7:35:25 PM PST by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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To: meadsjn
I sense you are feeling some hostility, and that can be a destructive element in our efforts to reach consensus. We need to work through these feelings and return to a level of discourse where we can discuss the issues of cognitive conflict between us. :)

You are right, I will take a "Time out" and then first thing in the morning I will go to my doctor and get on Ritalin and then sign myself up for self esteem classes and sensitivity training.

27 posted on 01/25/2004 7:42:12 PM PST by qam1 (Are Republicans the party of Reagan or the party of Bloomberg and Pataki?)
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To: DustyMoment
I grew up in the south well within the expected blast zone of a major military base. I remember the duck and cover drills, and our grade school was a designated fallout shelter. I am considered a Vietnam era veteran even though it was mostly over when I enlisted. The Mayaguez was captured while I was in boot camp, and I volunteered for west coast/westpac duty, but was sent elsewhere. That little misunderstanding was over within weeks anyway.

You are correct that many of the Boomer-aged people have been conservative all along. I count myself among those.

Irving Krystol, who supposedly coined the term "neocon", admitted in a recent article that the neo-conservative movement started when less extreme liberals became disillusioned with some their more extreme comrades. These are the Boomer elitists who wear the Republican label and dominate the RNC and Republican organizations at the state and county levels. They despise conservatives but will tolerate them long enough to get their votes. Their beliefs are slightly to the right of the Democrats but far from being conservative.

GW Bush has done a fine job in the war on terror, and I much prefer him to any of the other possibilities. I disagree with him on the immigration and unfair trade issues.

My point about the Republican party was that there is little to gain from party cheerleading when the party itself is slipping so far into liberal territory. Third parties are no help, but there will be room for another major party once the Democrat machine is utterly defeated. The neo-cons are going to keep a death-grip on the RNC and they will continue moving left.

It is not too early to start encouraging younger conservatives to prepare to counteract those moves, either by exerting more influence in the Republican party or by looking ahead toward a better alternative.

28 posted on 01/25/2004 8:16:24 PM PST by meadsjn
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To: DustyMoment
While I will acknowledge that there are many fine and up standing baby boomers, I am sorry overall as a generation the baby boomers are simply the worst that ever walked the United States and to put it bluntly the world will just be a better place once you are all gone from power.

And don't just blame a few liberal elitist boomers, It wasn't just liberal elitist boomers who had all those abortions, all those divorces, grabbed all those guns, Passed all those health/safety initiatives, Put their careers over their children and latch keyed them and ruined education. With a little exception it was the whole bunch of you.

But, while we made mistakes, we also pushed the envelope with successes in science, exploration, the environment, education, engineering, health, etc., etc

No you didn't, Like everything else the baby boomers have corrupted science for their own purposes. Instead of in the past where they came up with antibiotics and cures for things like Polio today we get useless junk like Global warming, How food from McDonalds is addicting, How smokers are more likely to allow their children to stand up in shopping carts, etc, etc. Not a day goes by that we aren't bombarded with more of these silly studies on how something innocent will harm/kill you and/or make you do bad things. In the past scientist worked on things for the future betterment of mankind, Today Baby Boomer scientist work on things for the future betterment of lawsuits and more regulations. If you baby boomers spent just 1/10 the resources you spent on your junk science on something meaningful we would probably already have a cure for cancer and cold fusion and much more by now.

As for the environment, Don't make me laugh. Baby Boomers are only for saving the Environment when it hurt a corporation or America. Which is why there hasn't been a new nuclear power plant build in the past 25 years and why there is all this protest against GMOs. As for those gadgets, Well it might have been the baby boomers, But not the ones in America but the ones in Japan and Korea(if they have such a designation) that came up with them. When's the last time a TV has been made in the USA.

The internet, Well sorry that's ours. Computers and the internet have existed since the 60's but it wasn't until the new entrapanuer  ial spirt of the Gen-Xers got a hold of them that they became what they are today. And it is this way by bringing computers and the internet into mainstream that Gen-X has already surpassed the Boomers (who have overall been a net drain on the country) in making positive contributions to United States and the world.

29 posted on 01/25/2004 8:42:18 PM PST by qam1 (Are Republicans the party of Reagan or the party of Bloomberg and Pataki?)
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To: DustyMoment
People who have walked on the moon

As of 2003, only the following twelve people have walked on the Moon, each on one mission only. Nobody has walked on the moon since 1972.

Astronaut Profile

30 posted on 01/25/2004 8:46:22 PM PST by meadsjn
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To: qam1
entrapanuer ial spirt

entrepreneurial spirit

I have no idea what happened there

31 posted on 01/25/2004 8:46:28 PM PST by qam1 (Are Republicans the party of Reagan or the party of Bloomberg and Pataki?)
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To: Khurkris
Well said. Unfortunately each new generation does this and thinks they are on to something new. The inherent imperfection of mankind assures this. I guess its just a stage...a learning process each generation goes thru.

No, To quote previously

"This anger towards the baby boomers is different from the past. In the past previous hostility between generations usually faded away as the younger generation matured. In today's case, I see the opposite happening with hostility toward the older baby boomers growing as the X & Ys age. The reason is because we have been propagandized during school and in the media on how great the 60s were and how enlightened the baby boomers are and it's not until we age that we start to see the damage to this country they and their "good intentions" have done. They are in power now and I feel in order to go forward we have to break the "Myth" of the baby boomers which would help in starting to get them out of power and undoing the damage they done."

With me it's not that I am a young whippersnapper complaining about the older generations because I have the up most respect for the WWII generation. Yes they weren't perfect and did start the ball rolling on these socialist programs and way of thinking but at least they did something like save the world from fascism and unlike the baby boomers they weren't actively working to undo all the institutions and the Constitution that made America great.

Here is one Baby Boomer I can respect take on your generation.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_082703/content/the_limbaugh_library.guest.html

Click the audio link on the site (It takes about 1:50 before he gets into it), Even Rush in referring to the Baby Boomers calls them "A group I am ashamed to be a part of"

BTW. Baby Boomers shouldn't be the one to talk about not respecting the older generations since Baby Boomers even to this day have always thought of the WWII generation as a bunch of uneducated simpletons.

32 posted on 01/25/2004 9:03:31 PM PST by qam1 (Are Republicans the party of Reagan or the party of Bloomberg and Pataki?)
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To: qam1
Thanks for speaking up. You have proven one of my points (at least to me). Once the Gen-Xers are fired up, they are going to move.

The difficulty might be in getting them pointed in a constructive direction. In fact, you guys will probably lay out your own path. By now you all should have a background in team building, diversity, and sensitivity skills sufficient to temper the more extreme tendencies of the age group.

33 posted on 01/25/2004 9:24:57 PM PST by meadsjn
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To: meadsjn; Sabretooth
I didn't get through it, so this is a bump for later perusal...
34 posted on 01/25/2004 10:45:10 PM PST by JerseyHighlander (quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.)
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To: JerseyHighlander
I didn't get through it, so this is a bump for later perusal...

Neither did I. And mine is for the same purpose.

35 posted on 01/26/2004 12:13:18 AM PST by Euro-American Scum (A poverty-stricken middle class must be a disarmed middle class)
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To: meadsjn
"GW Bush has done a fine job in the war on terror, and I much prefer him to any of the other possibilities. I disagree with him on the immigration and unfair trade issues.

My point about the Republican party was that there is little to gain from party cheerleading when the party itself is slipping so far into liberal territory . . . (etc. to the end of your post)"

We firmly agree on these items. I still think it unfair and incorrect to blame the entire baby boomer generation for all of the ills of America today. Our parent's generation had the "Great" Depression and created the SS boondoggle (for government). FDR adopted Keynesian economics and initiated deficit spending. LBJ developed the "Great Society" that left us with Medicare, the War on Poverty and Bi-Lingual Education.

Life is what it is. Many younger folks blame the baby boomers for everything wrong with America today. I'll concede that, overall, liberalism made a large foothold in our political structure, but we also tried to fight back with the likes of Goldwater, Nixon and Reagan. I would also recommend that GEN X- and Y-ers pay close attention to the journey taken by David Horowitz to understand what we were up against. In the 60s, there were two wars going on; one in Vietnam, and a civil war here at home being waged by college radicals. Not all of us bought into the SDS, SLA, Black Panthers, etc.

With respect to our selfishness, it is due in large part to the participation of baby boomers that civil rights were advanced to the extent that they are. We did what we did and, IMO, we owe few people any apologies.

If Gen X-ers are supposed to be the salvation of America, how come we had 8 years of Bill Clinton? If Gen Y-ers are the solution to us selfish baby boomers, why is Howard Dean such a prominent presidential candidate for the Dems?

Each generation makes its own share of mistakes and has its own crosses to bear. I'm not convinced that we did such a bad job.
36 posted on 01/26/2004 7:42:53 AM PST by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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To: qam1
"The internet, Well sorry that's ours. Computers and the internet have existed since the 60's but it wasn't until the new entrepreneurial spirt of the Gen-Xers got a hold of them that they became what they are today."

Oh, PLEASE!!! Give me a break. First of all, computers have existed since the late 40s. But, if you really trace the computer back through history, crude computers have existed since about the 12th or 13th century. Secondly, Americans have exhibited entrepreneurialism since the long before the Revolutionary War. Are you going to take credit for everything that has been done since then? You are starting to sound like Al Gore. Finally, I worked in the industry that made the Internet happen. We developed the technology and the hardware that made it what it is. The Internet has been around since the 70s, it was just called the Darpanet, then. However, if you want to take the credit for it, thanks for the dot-com bust that put so many people out of work and caused the collapse of so many businesses. Good work!! Is THIS the legacy that you Gen X-ers want to have? You're not off to a very good start.

Tell ya what. Print out a copy of the post I am replying to and put it in a safe place. A VERY safe place. 30 years from now, when the next generation is blaming you for everything that is wrong with the America that THEY inherited from YOU, re-read what you wrote. If you have an ounce of honor in you, you will feel very embarrassed. But, I doubt it. Your post reflects a lot of anger; much like Howard Dean.
37 posted on 01/26/2004 7:57:58 AM PST by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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To: DustyMoment
If Gen X-ers are supposed to be the salvation of America, how come we had 8 years of Bill Clinton?

The oldest Gen-Xers were first elegible to vote in 1982. They were statistically insignificant in Clinton's elections. If you look at the population numbers year to year, you will see that they become more significant as the years roll by.

FDR was a disaster for the country, economically and politically. Without his big government meddling, the people of the US could have gotten the economy rolling again. As it was, the economy was restarted by the buildup for and during WW-II, in spite of FDR's policies. Democrats dominated the body politic for the rest of the century, the Democrat's pet projects generally produced dismal results. The post WW-II high was accomplished by the drive of the returning WW-II Heros, and during that time the liberals had to go along to get along. The real problems started in the sixties when the Boomers came of age.

38 posted on 01/26/2004 8:07:57 AM PST by meadsjn
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To: qam1
"BTW. Baby Boomers shouldn't be the one to talk about not respecting the older generations since Baby Boomers even to this day have always thought of the WWII generation as a bunch of uneducated simpletons."

Sir/Ms/Ma'am...this statement is moronic. It undermines any desire you may have to engage in a logical and thoughtful dialogue.

39 posted on 01/26/2004 8:45:11 AM PST by Khurkris (Ranger On...)
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To: meadsjn
"The oldest Gen-Xers were first elegible to vote in 1982. They were statistically insignificant in Clinton's elections."

You want music to tap dance to or do you just want to keep dancing to your own tune? Tell me, how many millions are there in a "statistically insignificant", Muhammed Ali?
40 posted on 01/26/2004 9:06:13 AM PST by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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