Theory of the sun's role in formation of the solar system questioned

FirstScience ^ | Thursday, September 4, 2008 | University of California - San Diego

[SunkenCiv]

A strange mix of oxygen found in a stony meteorite that exploded over Pueblito de Allende, Mexico nearly 40 years ago has puzzled scientists ever since. Small flecks of minerals lodged in the stone and thought to date from the beginning of the solar system have a pattern of oxygen types, or isotopes, that differs from those found in all known planetary rocks, including those from Earth, its Moon and meteorites from Mars.

Now scientists from UC San Diego and Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory have eliminated one model proposed to explain the anomaly: the idea that light from the early Sun could have shifted the balance of oxygen isotopes in molecules that formed after it turned on. When they beamed light through carbon monoxide gas to form carbon dioxide, the balance of oxygen isotopes in the new molecules failed to shift in ways predicted by the model they report in the September 5 issue of Science...

[SunkenCiv]

"Musahid Ahmed of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and Teresa Jackson of UC San Diego are co-authors of the paper. NASA and the Department of Energy funded the project."

[SunkenCiv]

-Oliver Manuel-

The Sun: A Great Ball of Iron?
Science Daily
Posted on 07/18/2002 2:33:32 AM EDT by per loin
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/718067/posts

Is Iron Causing All the Flares?
Universe Today | 11/18/03
Posted on 11/19/2003 9:15:52 AM PST by LibWhacker
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1024961/posts

The Surface Of The Sun
The Surface of the Sun | copyright 2008
Posted on 08/29/2008 12:19:10 PM PDT by valkyry1
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2070704/posts

-and-

Scientific maverick’s theory on Earth’s core up for a test
SF Chronicle | Monday, November 29, 2004 | Keay Davidson
Posted on 12/05/2004 11:17:28 AM PST by SunkenCiv
11 posted on 12/05/2004 6:04:50 PM PST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1294934/posts?page=11#11
18 posted on 12/06/2004 5:15:48 AM PST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1294934/posts?page=18#18
19 posted on 12/06/2004 5:18:05 AM PST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1294934/posts?page=19#19

[SunkenCiv]

Planetary System Formation [observed data challenges present theories]
Science | August 8, 2008 | J. C. B. Papaloizou
Posted on 09/08/2008 7:16:52 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2077835/posts

[Silly]

Honestly, how in the world can these scientists claim to know so much of this?

[SunkenCiv]

· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic ·

[SunkenCiv]

Syllogisms.

[Silly]

Asparagus.

[count-your-change]

You mean THE Oliver Manuel? The one reported on in The Missouri Miner newspaper:

“Dr. Oliver Manuel arrested for multiple counts of rape and sodomy of his children”.

[SunkenCiv]

Esperanto.

[SunkenCiv]

"Dr. Oliver Manuel arrested for multiple counts of rape and sodomy of his children" by Michele Martin

..."this completely negates every scientific paper he's ever published," the prosecutor and all his students proclaimed.

[count-your-change]

Nooo, but it does call into question his ability to think rationally since one's actions and thinking are connected. What negates the papers he's written is his ability to ignore the most basic of physical facts in order to make a case for nonsense.
You know, the little details like iron doesn't exist as a solid at the sun's temperature.

[SunkenCiv]

Iron is in the spectrum coming from the Sun — it is in there, and it doesn’t have to be in a solid state to be there — obviously.

[count-your-change]

But it wasn’t his contention just that iron was present but that iron predominates and is the major source of the sun’s energy........obviously wrong.
Manuel also claimed that the sun was a past supernova but astronomers say supernovas do not become objects like our sun.
Manuel writes rubbish. He’s like someone writing about the exact floor plan of a flying saucer.

[mhx]

Honestly, how in the world can these scientists claim to know so much of this?

They can be absolutely 100% certain there's no intelligent design though, with just as much certainty as this other stuff :-)

[SunkenCiv]

Manuel writes rubbish. He's like someone writing about the exact floor plan of a flying saucer.

You really don't like him, obviously, that's (at least) the second ad hominem attack you've made on him.

Manuel also claimed that the sun was a past supernova but astronomers say supernovas do not become objects like our sun.

Science is a method, not a body of knowledge. If everything were known with absolute certainty, if knowledge were complete, there would be no need to continue to find things out using the scientific method. Manuel et al have used data that others have ignored or been baffled by to construct a theory.

But it wasn't his contention just that iron was present but that iron predominates and is the major source of the sun's energy........obviously wrong.

Why obviously wrong? Because you say so? You've also stated that iron can't be in the Sun because of the temperature. I guess the Earth can't have iron in its core, and all those old lava floes are entirely iron-free. And since hydrogen remains a gas until it gets near absolute zero, obviously conditions in the Sun are far too hot for hydrogen as well.

[count-your-change]

You misquote me...I said “iron as a solid”, not that iron wasn't present. And it's not because I say so but rather because as I pointed out astronomers who actually know whereof they speak about the sun say so.
Do they know everything that can be known? To this irrelevancy I can say I don't know everything about how my computer works but I do know there is not a little man inside it doing quick work with a pencil and paper.

But investigate on your own: If the sun is predominately iron (as Manuel asserts), what does the iron fission or fuse into to produce the sun's energy? Or is there some other process going on to produce energy? What produces a supernova and how does its size affect its fate? If the sun really is predominately iron, by weight or volume, would its size and mass be different than if it were mostly hydrogen and helium? In broad terms, how would the orbit of the planets differ from one case when compared to the other?
The answer to these questions are easily found and the answers would demonstrate Manuel's theory is based upon a false premise.

[Fred Nerks]

'All matter in the universe is composed of electric charge. The electric force between charges mediates all physical interactions, irrespective of scale. It is the electric force that energizes matter. By ignoring electricity, cosmologists have committed an error so fundamental that the mistake invariably propagates through any and all of their theoretical excursions. The electrical theorists see this as the overriding cause of the oft-noted “crisis in cosmology”, and the effects on related disciplines—bound as they are by the assumptions of cosmologists—have been nothing less than catastrophic.'

The Iron Sun Debate 1.

Nuclear Reactions at the Solar Surface

The Iron Sun Debate 2.

The Myth of the Neutron Star

The Iron Sun Debate 3.

Exploding the Myth of the Imploding Supernova

The Iron Sun Debate 4.

Meteorites and the Modern Myth of Solar System Genesis

'In his “Iron Sun” theory, Oliver Manuel has developed an unorthodox answer to puzzles concerning the birth of the solar system, recorded in meteorites and lunar samples. But in interpreting these samples, he has fallen prey to a conventional myth as to their origins...

[SunkenCiv]

But investigate it on your own

One of us should.

[SunkenCiv]

One last ref to Oliver Manuel et al, the list of papers:

http://www.omatumr.com/PapersArxiv.html

And now, back to the original thread.

[ignorancecosts]

Came upon this site while looking up info on Dr. Oliver Manuel. Was surprised that the web seems to be scrubbed of news on his trial. Finally found this article w/info that all of the rape & sodomy charges were dropped, leaving one charge of ‘attempted’ sodomy. These crimes were to have occurred 40 yrs ago. I’m sure there must be more victims who will come forth if these charges were true, as it seems pedophiles have little to no success at changing their sexual attractions/perversions. Not defending him, as I think all pedophiles and child abusers should be removed from public contact. just thought it odd that most links to arrest and trial seem to be broken. Since posters on this thread seem to be interested in truth, thought I’d offer a little ‘heads up’.