Note: this topic is from 2009.Update: Related topic:
Posted on 02/02/2009 10:57:34 AM PST by nickcarraway
TRAVERSE CITY - The French government says it still owns the Griffin, a 17th century ship built by legendary explorer La Salle that may have been discovered in northern Lake Michigan.
France filed a claim to the vessel Tuesday in U.S. District Court in Grand Rapids, escalating a legal battle over who owns and has authority to retrieve artifacts from the long-lost vessel.
Michigan also is seeking title, although state officials have raised doubts about whether the Griffin's gravesite actually has been found. They say federal law gives the state ownership of abandoned vessels embedded in its Great Lakes bottomlands.
A private group, Great Lakes Exploration LLC, located what it contends may be the Griffin's wreckage in 2001. It wants to be appointed custodian until the courts determine ownership and salvage rights.
The precise site has not been publicly revealed, but is believed to be between Escanaba and the St. Martin Islands, near Wisconsin.
The Griffin (also spelled ''Griffon'') disappeared on its maiden voyage in 1679 after embarking from an island near Green Bay, Wis., with a crew of six and a cargo of furs and other goods.
France filed paperwork with the court this week to meet a deadline for avoiding loss of rights to the ship, a spokesman for the French embassy in Washington said Thursday.
The claim is based on documents showing the fatal expedition was undertaken on behalf of the French crown and was not a private venture, the spokesman said.
Steve Libert, spokesman for Great Lakes Exploration, backs the claim.
''Michigan isn't fighting just me any more. They're fighting the country of France,'' he said.
Matt Frendewey, spokesman for the Michigan attorney general's office, said state officials were reviewing the French court filing and would respond later.
In a motion filed last month, Michigan asked federal judge Robert Holmes Bell to declare the wreckage - if it exists - state property. Assistant Attorney General Louis Reinwasser said divers visited the site in October and found only a timber protruding from the lake bottom.
Ken Vrana, director of the Lansing-based Maritime Center, said a sonar examination of the site in 2006 detected numerous artifacts on the bottom and embedded in sediments.
His nonprofit scientific and educational organization is working with Libert on plans for a remote sensing expedition this summer in hopes of identifying the artifacts. France's director of underwater archaeology has endorsed the mission, Vrana said.
''I would still love to do it on a cooperative basis with the state of Michigan and I'm perplexed as to why they are resisting,'' he said.
What say we tell the French to piss off? What are they gonna do, really? Throw a glass of wine at us? Lol. Cheese eating surrender monkeys anyhow.
not to mention the fines for a couple hundred counts of littering.
Governments are pigs. They want to own everything - you, your family, your money, your property.
If you find something of value, keep it. Or sell it.
I found a couple of valuable artifacts with a metal detector years ago. I notified the state. A few days later a fat slob bureaucrat showed up and said he would take the artifacts for display in a state museum. When I stopped at the museum to look at the artifacts, only one was on display. The other was “missing.” The museum claimed it received only one piece.
At that time I was young and foolish. Never asked for a receipt but trusted governmemt to do the right thing. And so started my journey of never trusting so-called government.
And for that insufferable pig of a state attorney general to make a claim on the treasure is not the least surprising. The RINO SOB refuses to file any charges against the politicians and bureaucrats brazenly robbing communities and individuals.
I don’t think so... If they think they own it, they can come and get it.
Chapeau! to NickCarraway for posting this fascinating story, and to SunkenCiv and ArmyAirCorps for the PING.
FRENCH POILIYICS AND CULTURE PING LIST. FReepMail ME IF YOU WANT TO JOIN!
Any experts in Maritime Law here?
Chapeau! to NickCarraway for posting this fascinating story, and to SunkenCiv and ArmyAirCorps for the PING.
FRENCH POLITICS AND CULTURE PING LIST. FReepMail ME IF YOU WANT TO JOIN!
Any experts in Maritime Law here?
The ship was owned by the French State under the Monarchy of Louis XIV. The State in France is viewed as a continuous entity from Monarchy to Veme Republique.
Would Maritime Law apply to these waters?
I say let whomever will pay to raise it, preserve it, and place a museum around it, claim it.
To echo the sentiment expressed in above posts, the French probably should have thought about this before they cut their heads off...
Thanks for keeping me on the ping. This is very interesting.
One may mention (although it is implicit in your post) that this has very much to to do with greed - greed of the various states/governments. For instance Spain which is so keen to protect its national heritage on international waters, "strangely" enough also claims ownership of the British wreck HMS Sussex that lies off Gibraltar in international waters.
Anyone who expects consistency from ANY GOVERNMENT in any area OTHER THAN in its own interests is fooling themselves into the mad house! As Machiavelli stated in "The Prince" the Prince / State (The State is I - Sun King Louis of France), the State has only self-interest!
That was his point.
I can’t believe my first thought was, “I wonder if it’s anywhere near the Ed
Fits?”
LOL
Note: this topic is from 2009.Update: Related topic:
MI ping.
Interesting stuff, ping!
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