Posted on 08/02/2010 7:13:54 AM PDT by laotzu
On the contrary, everyone can read.
“We’re talking about illicit sex between a child and an alleged adult.”
I like your use of “alleged” adult. It is, IMHO, the most succinct and accurate summation of the teacher’s behavior possible.
Please don’t attack the bearer of bad news. I agree with durus’s posting of Edmund Burke’s famous line about responsibility for one’s behavior. In a republic, there can be no substitute for a self regulating citizenry.
Back to the thread. I have made clear my agreement with the Judeo-Christian concept of marriage. That we live in a cluture of sluts, ho’s and long legged mack daddies is no reason not to question our present situation.
The deliberate trashing of religion and the family has been the consuming effort of commies since Stalin’s day. As Antonio Gramsci said, take a generation or two and take over teh educational system. They did.
Cucumber and condom purchases by elementary schools is proof of Gramsci’s crowd’s domination of state schools. Contrary to what one of the angry poster who attacked me, the state does assume the child is rightfully theirs to shape as they want, not as the parents wish.
To assume that any state program, or set of state laws, can keep children from acting out the Sluts-R-Us is delusional. Only concerned and involved parents can raise children able to reject the cultural “norm” and recognize it as abnormal, antisocial, and unsustainable.
Funding a huge swarm of government intervenors does no demonstrable good to offset the cost, both financially culturally, let alone Constitutionally, which such programs inflict.
Parents, and society, does not need government to tell us what is right. That was done some thousands of years ago, on a mountain top. Said message was repeated about 2,000 years ago.
Government isn’t needed in this area, and I am of the opinion that the sooner we get government out of family issues and decisions the better.
Government activity in family is a form of charity, at best.
As madison said, there is NO Constitutional authority for government to do charity. That means, government should keep its hands off the family.
Yes, some children will be beaten, seduced, raped, even killed. But, given that government intervention is worse - perhaps we must rely on family and neighbors, and church members.
Those used to work.
Evil acts were not prevented back then, but they were fewer in number.
Lastly, allowing easy divorce guaranteed child abuse because non-birth fathers do not care for children as they do for their own children. Such is human nature.
I don’t have answer, but I did hope that raising questions would stimulate thought, not provoke personal attack.
None of that justifies my own general childishness, of course - but with the exception of Inuit lesbianism, I got nothing to apologize for here.
This has nothing to do with marriage.
It’s completely and totally irrelevant what different cultures in the world today and throughout history had as marriage customs. Your deflecting the topic and arguing for things that have nothing to do with it is just a smoke screen for having been exposed as not condemning it but condoning it.
And your arguments about that only address the issue of older men with younger girls who aren’t even as young as this boy was. So the FAIL.
What happened was wrong period.
And it’s indefensible.
The fact that you’re not condemning it but trying to find every which way to excuse it shows the depth of depravity of your own mind, along with the posts you posted here.
Only abusers justify their actions by insisting that no harm is done to the victim, that the victims actually enjoy it or want it, that it’s not really wrong because it happens somewhere else in the world or in history, yada, yada, yada.....
We’ve heard arguments like that before from pedophiles.
Talk like a pedophile and you’ll be labeled as one.
BB is right, you’ve revealed a lot of ugliness within yourself.
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“If we were to have had a discussion without you defending pedophiles I’m sure I would be much more sociable.”
Claiming I am doesn’t make it so; repeating the false claim won’t correct the error.
Through most of history, a twelve year old male was just about ready to assume responsibility for his own acts. Note that under Jewish law, a male of 13, on his 13th birthday (12 years old plus one day) was considered responsible for his sins.
However, he usually married only somewhat over twice that age. In this society, we have educational requirements for earning a living and those are best met by postponing marriage until after al least high school.
Alas, we have allowed sex to become a casual recreational sport. And we have sexualized even pre-teens.
Not surprisingly, lots of early sex occurs. My posts tried to point out the contradictions inherent in this situation.
One can hardly make sex a casual act, bring sex into the lives of the rather young, have largely absentee parents, children with lots of time and no adult supervision - and then expect sex not to occur.
Time to “get real” as one student said.
Oh, claiming what history has observed since time immemorial as “preposterous” may not be your strongest argument.
I agree with you that casual sex is bad, and I even noted why AND gave reasons based on behavior and evolutionary advantage. Where we disagree is the assumption that “damage” has occurred.
When “damage” is hard to prove, as the frustrated posts indicate, would it not be better to concentrate on strengthening cultural acceptance of traditional marriage instead of supporting a swarm of intervenors? ‘Specially since the grandparents and the clergy do the gooberment intervenors work better and vastly cheaper as well.
I have a small research facility and an an ecologist, writer and educator.
Ok... What can be done is the central question, but supporting a swarm of goobers in gooberment agencies has been tried and failed.
I don't know enough about Florida and their child welfare services to comment on it but it's obvious that this a red herring to distract from your main point that consent laws should be overturned due to "lack of harm". Are you rescinding this opinion?
Perhaps someone here might spend a bit more time trying to find a solution to the issues I raised in good faith, rather than snarking endlessly about my being some sort of pedophile.
What issue have you raised in good faith? You questioned consent laws concerning female on male pedophilia...that doesn't make you brave champion for justice. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they are being nasty to you, for all I know other then you being a female pedophile apologist (and the reasonable questions that might raise) you might be an otherwise wonderful person. I haven't made any comment regarding anything other then your stated and logically inferred written opinions.
In case you are otherwise unclear if one advocates overturning consent laws that protect children from pedophiles then you are supporting pedophilia. It is really that simple.
Government activity in family is a form of charity, at best.
As madison said, there is NO Constitutional authority for government to do charity. That means, government should keep its hands off the family.
I guess you didn't realize that crimes such as rape and homosexuality were CAPITAL CRIMES when our Founding Fathers were around.
Yes, some children will be beaten, seduced, raped, even killed. But, given that government intervention is worse - perhaps we must rely on family and neighbors, and church members.
This better than just about any post on FR demonstrates how sick, dangerous and evil the libertarian agenda is.
You are actually suggesting that letting childred be BEATEN, RAPED AND KILLED is preferable to the government having laws to prevent it.
Thanks for saying what I was thinking Wagglebee, by the time I started typing I knew I would have had it removed.
One of the reasons I don’t post many responses to this kind of drivel is I tend to get too worked up over it and let emotion get in the way, which can cloud my judgment of what I type.
Can you direct me to the post that offended you?
I asked one libertarian if we should just have marriage as a man and a woman.
the answer was and yes it is sick.
Anyone should marry anything and anyone whenever they want and if a father wants to marry his little daughter aged 5 then so be it.
that is why I am not libertarian
Did someone ask for an apology?
That sound you hear in the distance is my applause.
Excellent post.
Post 16 was a crappy way to defend things - however, the good thing is there was no more attempt as far as I can tell to use this approach after the first try - which is cool.
BTTT
Update
Accused of sex with boy, teacher quits
By Michelle Mondo - Express-News
A teacher jailed over the weekend on a charge of aggravated sexual assault on one of her students resigned Monday amid revelations that the boy had been removed from her classroom because of concerns about her behavior toward him.
Lucinda Rodriguez Caldwell, 38, is accused of taking one of her former fifth-grade students to a motel early Saturday and performing a sex act on him, according to an arrest warrant affidavit. She was expected to be released on $75,000 bail late Monday night or early today.
A teacher at Cable Elementary School in the Northside Independent School District since 2006, Caldwell was still behind bars Monday when the district served her papers that gave her the option of resigning or taking paid administrative leave, district spokesman Pascual Gonzalez said.
Gonzalez said the district is reporting the incident to the State Board for Educator Certification. He also confirmed the teacher had been reprimanded in the past because of her behavior toward the boy.
In late February, three teachers expressed concern about Caldwell’s behavior toward the boy that appeared “overly friendly,” Gonzalez said, but there were no complaints from the 12-year-old student or his father and nothing that showed she was sexually involved with him.
She was counseled and reprimanded, Gonzalez said.
“Elementary teachers by nature are very close to their kids, very affectionate; that’s just the atmosphere of the elementary school,” Gonzalez said. “But there is a line of friendliness you do not cross, and in the opinion of these staff members she crossed the line.”
A week or two later, Caldwell gave the boy a private tutoring session in the classroom after school hours that was not approved by the administrators, as is required.
After the principal learned of the session, she decided on March 5 to move the boy out of Caldwell’s classroom. Gonzalez said the boy and his father still had not expressed any concern about the teacher.
“That’s the last of any kind of incidents that the school was aware of,” Gonzalez said.
How much contact with the boy Caldwell had after he was moved from her classroom and during the summer is not known.
Gonzalez said the first he heard of any contact was on news about her arrest.
Caldwell was arrested Saturday after the boy’s father awoke to find his son missing, according to an arrest warrant affidavit.
He went outside to look for him and saw the teacher drive up to the house.
The father recognized the car because of past “dealings” with Caldwell, the affidavit said. When the father approached the car, Caldwell took off. He followed her in his own vehicle to Hondo, where she was pulled over and arrested.
The boy then told police that she took him to a motel. Police confirmed that she checked into a motel at 1:15 a.m.
Gonzalez said there had been no other complaints about Caldwell. He said she had previously worked at districts in El Paso and Eagle Pass.
No one in Caldwell’s family could be reached for comment.
“As professional educators, we are extremely distressed that a teacher would take advantage of a child,” Gonzalez said. “Because the vast majority of teachers are honorable and they do their very best to help their students succeed.”
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/teacher_jailed_for_sexual_assault_resigns_99806864.html?showFullArticle=y
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“overly friendly.” Hoo boy.
Or in other words he was not expected to have sex until marriage which was not until roughly the age of 25. This does not support your argument...even a little. In fact the average age for marriage has remained around 25 for most of western history.
My posts tried to point out the contradictions inherent in this situation. Advocating overturning age of consent laws is not pointing out any contradictions...in fact I'm not sure if you have yet to point out a contradiction that speaks directly to the point that a 38 year old woman having sex with a 12 year old boy is wrong.
You have a big problem when you claim that History is on your side in this argument when it plainly is not.
"Where we disagree is the assumption that “damage” has occurred. When “damage” is hard to prove, as the frustrated posts indicate, would it not be better to concentrate on strengthening cultural acceptance of traditional marriage instead of supporting a swarm of intervenors?
Damage obviously occurs, if fact you could look it up as well and anyone, what we don't agree with however is that damage is completely immaterial. Consent laws are based on the concept of informed consent. Children are not deemed to have the life experience required to make informed decision concerning a wide variety of things including sexual partners. Any degradation of age of consent laws only give pedophiles cover for their actions. This should not have to be explained to any rational intelligent adult that has even a passing interest in our government and the rule of law.
I see. I’m sorry things didn’t start off well between us, but beyond my concern for the children in these situations, I have a concern for this site and its owner.
It is my understanding that there have been recent incidents, and that is very distressing to me.
Some of the threads that I see here almost seem to be inviting comments that will make this site and its members look bad.
and that's one of the reasons i love you so much : )
That comes thru loud and clear to even the deafest poster, and bless ya for it
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