Posted on 08/11/2010 5:10:45 AM PDT by marktwain
Capt. John Raguso keeps threatening to send us a review of Kel Tec’s smokin’ SUB-2000 9mm carbine. Today, Hi-Point Carbines drops the news that their long awaited .45 ACP rifle is ready to rock and roll. These handgun-caliber carbine may be gaining favor over the venerable 12-gauge as the weapon of choice for hom defense. And for good reason. In fact, here are four. . .
1. Less recoil than a shotgun
While home defense shotguns put an awful lot of lead downrange with a single trigger squeeze, shooters pay the price with a big ole’ wallop to their shoulder. That’s no big thing for big people who’re comfortable with firearms (who may, in fact, like the kick). And in the heat of battle, who cares? But if a gun is formidable to fire (i.e. painful), its owners are FAR less likely to practice. If they don’t, they will not be confident and accurate.
Even in .45 ACP, handgun-caliber carbines have minimal recoil, relatively speaking. The lower recoil makes the rifles far more attractive to women, teens and (let’s be honest here) small-framed men. They can also put a lot of lead downrange. BONUS! Quick mag changes are easier than reloading a shotgun.
2. Quieter than a shotgun
The state prohibitions against silencers really piss me off. (Somebody was watching way too many spy movies.) Meanwhile, shotguns are ridiculously, enormously loud. While a handgun caliber carbine will make plenty of noise, a shooter stands a chance of being able to hear something after firing—which could save their life. Comparing the two firearms genres, handgun caliber rifles will definitely reduce a shooter’s chances of permanent, perhaps even catastrophic hearing loss.
3. Better than a handgun
So’s a shotgun. But again, there are plenty of people who find shotguns intimidating. In that sense, handgun caliber carbines hit the sweet spot. Thanks to the carbines longer sight radius, they’re easier to aim than a handgun, And more intimidating (i.e. visible)
Handgun caliber carbines increase bullet speed and, thus, penetration. Hi-Point says their .45 ACP’s longer barrel increases velocity figures between 80-200 FPS (feet per second) over a like-chambered handgun.
4. Less expensive
To my way of thinking, a semi-automatic weapon is the best home defense shotgun. A good one costs the thick end of a grand. This Hi-Point .45 ACP Carbine costs $330. The SUB-2000 goes for $409.
I love shotguns. But the handgun caliber carbines may be better for more people. The market will speak.
Specifications for Hi-Point .45 ACP Carbine:
Price: $330 MSRP Finish: Special high-durability black powder coat Stock: Black molded polymer-(with standard upper and lower Picatinny rails). Barrel length: 171/2-inches Overall length: 33-inches Weight: 71/2-pounds. Magazine capacity: 9-rounds. Sight: Adjustable front post and adjustable rear (ghost ring) Warranty: Lifetime on parts and labor that follows the gun. Manufacturer: Hi-Point of Mansfield Ohio-every part is made in the U.S.A. Factory affordable options are available: Folding grip, laser, scope sight, etc.
“...You should never pull a weapon unless you intend to use it to protect your life...”
Agree. Of course sometimes a bad guy will get the drop on the property owner who must run, duck, and/or grab a weapon at which point chambering a round and firing the round or shell should be part of the same second action.
I like 18-inch doubles over 18-inch pumps because the double will be a few inches shorter and handier due to the lack of the action/receiver. Two shotgun blasts of 16 pellets each is a lot of shooting in a home D situation. Plus doubles are close to being idiot-proof while I’ve seen folks fumble with pumps finding the slide release to chamber a round. Remember most home D shooters are greenhorns and not real shootists.
I’m a huge fan of the .45 ACP. Just bought myself a compact last month to complement the full size 1911’s I already own (Taurus Millennium, which has a 10rd. double-stack mag.) I’m taking it over to the range on Saturday to give it a 200-round dance, and looking forward to it.
The Judge was not available with both chambers at the time of the test, and it’s pretty clear that even the buckshot is not a reliable penetrator from the Judge.
Each 000 pellet weighs only 70 grains. Simple physics. They are too light and there are too few of them.
Compared to a 9mm or 38 bullet, it’s no contest.
The Judge is also larger than a regular pistol would be.
It’s okay for home defense with the .45’s, but much better options are available than a Judge with buckshot.
My Ruger PC-9 (9mm) holds a 30 round magazine (uses the same mags as the P89) and can get rid of those rounds as fast a one can pull the trigger. Would rather have had the .40 cal, but really only ended up with this in a swap and turned out I like it. Mrs. BCC can drill targets with it.
Marlin made a .45 Auto carbine for awhile back I think in the late 80s or early 90s, about the same time Ruger was making these PCs.
Definitely agree - as a tactical matter, you never want to expose your position, even in low light. Once you’ve made a positive ID on the bad guy, confirm a threat condition and know what’s beyond him, you shoot.
That’s my dream too. Racking a shotgun and hearing intruders go “Ahhhhhh!” as they run out the door.
However, my assumption is they are intent on following through on whatever they are in my home for, so it has always seemed reasonable and lifesaving to fire away.
My goal is to save my life and my loved ones and not give them the opportunity or chance to get anywhere near me.
I don’t want to interview them on intent and I am not interested in learning why they are there.
The bottom line is they shouldn’t be in my home and my assumption is they are committed, no matter what, on achieving their goal and if I am in the way, they don’t care.
I do.
That’s a pretty gun.
Someone enters your home knowing that you’re there. Assuming that they are armed and hear the shotgun racked they will either run away or immediately open fire in the general direction of the sound. Tactically it’s a bad idea to give away any advantage that you have.
As someone who has been in a gunfight, let me tell you that if you are truely fighting for your life, you WILL NEVER HEAR THE REPORT OF YOUR FIREARM! I think the experts call this auditory exclusion, or some other SNS effect on your body when the adrenaline pumps. As for shotguns...you might hear them go off ;P
Cop buddy of mine had his supervisor's Glock 22 go off above his shoulder on a raid, and he never heard him fire because he was so focused on the suspect (shooting at cops from behind a couch). Buddy had conical "flash" and gunpower residue on the left side of his face, said that he never once heard the firearm firing 1-2" from his ear. After the shooting stopped, none of the police had "ringing" ears either.
My under the bed firearms are Wife=Benelli M1 14", Me= M4 with Gemtech Raptor, Beta C, etc.
NOTE to ATF AGENTS: They are both on Form 4 or Form 1.
How much are those? I am thinking of getting a couple of cheaper handguns and I hear about these frequently.
“...I usually get about” an 8-10 inch spread at five yards...
That is interesting. I bet it is fun too.
And the rest will thank you for giving away your position.
Careful with the assumption about penetration. Here’s an interesting site with some experimets (and funny comments about the effect of racking the shotgun)
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
It sure handles nice too! I have it’s cousin, the Trapper 16-inch barreled .357 Magnum carbine. One-inch groups at 25 yards out of the box. You can use .38 Special or .357 Magnum cartridges. (.38 Special cartridge shots feel like the ol’ duck-shooting arcade rifles.) Standard loadings are suggested, no ‘Plus-P’ loadings, or you might hurt yourself, and the rifle.
Yes, you must chamber a round to have it ‘service-ready’. The length of the rifle is great for handling, at 34 inches, total. You have two hands on it, a little harder to get it from you, since it is YOUR house, that you are defending!
Yes, you can use pistols or revolvers for the house. You can have your Crimson Trace laser handgrips, and your Judge with factory home defense loads. You can use Kel-Tec or Hi Point wonders. You can have your so-called Evil Black Rifle, shooting mega-rounds in nano-seconds.
But what do you think the jury might say, if they had to choose between those aforementioned tac-ti-cool goodies, or an older style cowboy ‘coach gun’, or a cowboy/grandpa’s ol’deer rifle?
I hope that your state has a ‘Castle Law’, without that stupid ‘retreat’ business. It always has been YOUR home, invaded by a CRIMINAL, intent on YOUR stuff or YOUR life. I’d rather be judged by twelve, than carried by six.
Exactly. I don’t believe racking does anything but act as a ping so they know where you are.
It also and and thought of pensiveness and can get you killed.
Best to be done with it and deal with emotional aspects afterward.
Makes it much more likely to be able to defuse a situation without having to fire a shot....
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You watch too many movies.
Wouldn’t 00 double your volley?
Why did you choose 000? Honest question as I had never considered 000.
T...M...I...8^}
“Someone enters your home knowing that you’re there. Assuming that they are armed and hear the shotgun racked they will either run away or immediately open fire in the general direction of the sound. Tactically it’s a bad idea to give away any advantage that you have.”
I agree that racking is a bad idea if you are in the same room with an intruder. If you are not in the room the odds that they will take a “general direction” shot is remarkably low, and the odds of hitting anything is near zero.
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