The JFK-UFO Connection: Bogus Documents or Unanswered Questions?

AOL News ^ | 04/18/11 | Lee Speigel

[Dengar01]

Do you like a good UFO detective story? Well, here's one for you. And it's ongoing, so we don't yet know the ending. It involves President John F. Kennedy's interest in UFOs shortly before his death and an allegation that he may have angered officials in his administration when he asked for information on the subject.

Recently, the FBI opened a new website, "The Vault," that lets you view a variety of documents, including those regarding UFOs. I looked into one document that appears to include a phony UFO story and mentioned how important it is to be extremely careful when looking at UFO documents and how it's critical to know the background of this information. JFK Doc 5 Courtesy of Robert Wood / Earthfiles.com The cover of a lengthy 1954 MJ-12 special operations manual, which contains detailed information about "extraterrestrial entities and technology, recovery and disposal." Use the navigation bar to scan through the document or enlarge this 13-page document for a full reading.

While researching materials for his new book, "A Celebration of Freedom: JFK and the New Frontier" (Wasteland Press), Atlanta, Ga., history teacher William Lester used the Freedom of Information Act to get some previously classified documents.

Two of them were written by Kennedy on the same date, Nov. 12, 1963 -- 10 days before his assassination. One was to the CIA director, asking for UFO files (See JFK Doc 2); the other was to the NASA administrator, with Kennedy expressing a desire for cooperation with the former Soviet Union on mutual outer space activities (See JFK Doc 3).

[Quix]

INTERESTING MUMMY FOUND IN PERU IN 1972

http://www.mysterycasebook.com/2011/etmummy.html

[JoeProBono]

[Quix]

Hmmmmmmmm

[bgill]

Sure, but did they use shrimp bait or what and what breed of kitty did they hook - Siamese, Manx, or just the common tabby?

In all of the vast universe, it's hard to claim we're the only beings capable of space travel.

[dragnet2]

I’ve seen multiple objects I was never able to ID as conventional aircraft or spacecraft. One incident I observed a dim, pin point, star like object which appeared to move behind the lunar limb and did not appear to exit. Spooky did not begin to describe this incident, which lasted only about 5 seconds.

[Bookwoman]

Proven hoax on ATS. Photoshopped.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[MHGinTN]

What is the muzzle velocity of an MG-17 machinegun, out of say a 30 inch barrel? How fast does the velocity drop off to slower than the supposed disc craft.

[B4Ranch]

>>Reports of UFOs began around 1946 - 1948><<

The First Recorded UFO Sighting - a Rock Carving!
The first recorded ufo sighting I have found so far dates all the way back to about 47,000 years ago. On an island in the Hunan province of China, there appear cylindrical objects (cigar-shaped spacecrafts) and their wierd, possibly extraterrestrial, occupants carved into a granite mountain and some rocks. I can’t find a picture of the carvings for the life of me. If somebody knows where I can find one, let me know.

The First Written UFO Account - Ancient Egypt
As mentioned before, there are several other candidates for the first written account which can probably be assigned to ancient Sumerian texts, but this one I find more along the lines of an unknown object in the sky. It was found on Egyptian papyrus during the reign of Thutmose III - 1504-1450 B.C.:

In the year 22, of the 3rd month of winter, sixth hour of the day...the scribes of the House of Life found it was a circle of fire that was coming in the sky.... It had no head, the breath of its mouth had a foul odor. Its body one rod long and one rod wide. It had no voice. Their hearts became confused through it; then they laid themselves on their bellies.... They went to the Pharaoh...to report it. His Majesty ordered...[an examination of] all which is written in the papyrus rolls of the House of Life. His Majesty was meditating upon what happened. Now after some days had passed, these things became more numerous in the skies than ever. They shone more in the sky than the brightness of the sun, and extended to the limits of the four supports of the heavens.... Powerful was the position of the fire circles. The army of the Pharaoh looked on with him in their midst. It was after supper. Thereupon, these fire circles ascended higher in the sky towards the south.... The Pharaoh caused incense to be brought to make peace on the hearth.... And what happened was ordered by the Pharaoh to be written in the annals of the House of Life...so that it be remembered for ever.

(Brinsley Le Poer Trench - The Flying Saucer Story, Reader’s Digest - Mysteries of the Unexplained)

http://www.theastralworld.com/aliens-ufos/first-ufo-sightings.php

[B4Ranch]

I would imagine the supposed disc craft would be capable of various speeds, don’t you? From a stop to a cruse, to full speed to a stop.

The muzzle velocity of an MG-17 machinegun also varies according to the Ammo. Let’s say roughly 3000 fps.

>>Muzzle velocity: from 855 m/s (Phosphor “B” round ) to 905 m/s (Armor Piercing Tracer “SmK L’spur” round)<<

Back to your question, I don’t know but I’ll bet there’s lots of disinformation on the subject.

[B4Ranch]

Do you have a site with details?

[MHGinTN]

As a mamber of MUFON, I find it difficult to believe that a propulsion system as radical as would be required for that disc craft has remained secret and no one has come up with it ‘again’ in sixty years. I’m not active with MUFON currently, due to physical limitations. But I was a licensed field investigator with them and my skepticism radar is tingling real good over that supposed Nazi craft. It sells books to make up fantastic stuff, but I don’t think that one is real. Look at the history of ‘The Nazi Bell’ ... this supposed craft flew even before the Bell project was said to have made substantial breakthroughs. No, I can’t believe this one is a real craft. I have more ease believing Mars was a moon of a larger planet and had inhabitants who are now a remnant flying around in our stellar neighborhood. Tom Van Flandern may have had the exploding planet hypothesis figured out. Mars as an inhabitable moon now come planetary neighbor is more believable than these Nazi extreme advanced tech stories.

[wendy1946]

The first UFO reports you normally hear about arose around 1946 - 48 or thereabouts, i.e. at the time when people flying around in piston engined aircraft first started seeing jets going by at 500 mph while they were doing 200 or 250.   Moreover, the first guy they flew in to Rosswell was Werner Von Braun who would have been no more of an expert on space alien tech than you or I would be, but who was THE expert on Nazi tech, which was probably what was involved.

As far as I know, with the possible exception of remnant trees on Mars, there is no life other than here in our system;  that means that an alien coming here now would have to be coming from another star, which is just terribly hard.  Here to Mars versus here to Alpha Centauri is more or less like a foot or so versus four miles.  All odds and smart betting should be against it.

Now, if you want to talk about visitors eight or ten thousand years ago, that's a different deal altogether.  Inhabited places in our system prior to the series of calamities culminating in the flood would have included Earth, Mars, our own moon, and possibly others such as Titan.

Aside from planets and moons, and despite any and all NASA and ESA efforts to cover this stuff up, we have the following:
.
Iapetus, Saturn's little moon with the 9 km high wall on a great circle arc, almost certainly artificial.

Phobos  ( http://www.enterprisemission.com/Phobos.html )



As Hoagland notes, you can all but count the rivets.  Phobos was known to be non solid as early on as the 1960s and ESA radar imaging apparently shows rectangular interior spaces. One full color view shows the thing to be clearly metallic:

Steins:





Finally, we have the weirdest item of all. Given what we know about catastrophes within our system a few thousand years back, and given that people living in the system in past ages were space faring; you assume they would have seen the storm coming, and would not have had a way to know whether anything in the system would remain habitable or not. They would have tried to make it out to the near stars. That would have involved a large number of very large ships, and it's possible that one or two of them might not have made it out, and that we might find the remains of one such item sooner or later.



That is on the back side of our own moon apparently and google or youtube searches on 'apollo 20 alien ship' will turn up endless discussions on the subject. Supposedly, the video sequences arise from a reel of 9mm tape which one of the Apollo 20 astronauts released to the public on his death bed. If I had to bet it I would bet that the story is straight up and legit, the film sequence would be very difficult to fabricate, experts say the shots of the Apollo vehicle interior are for real, and there's no motive. People who make things up for youtube don't put that much effort into details.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hDI-uB6 ... 409BB68739

You can see where the guy with the camera sees the artificial object and zooms on it around 2/3 of the way through the video. And, as per the previous discussion, this thing, again assuming it to be real, would not fit in your garage easily; it's about a third the size of Manhatten.

A vehicle that size, in my opinion, could have but one purpose, i.e. escape.  It would be a space-faring version of Noah's ark.

The possibility you have to consider is that we may actually have relatives out amongst the near stars, descendants of people who survived and made it out of our own system in vehicles like Steins or that thing above.  That strikes me as the most major incentive for inter-stellar travel.  The thing you saw in 'Avatar' doesn't really work from a money perspective, i.e. there's nothing you could hope to bring back from such a trip which could justify the cost.

Basic bottom lines: evidence of space faring which we have from the ancient world refers to space faring by people, not space aliens, from our own system, and not from other stars; the time frames involved are thousands or at most tens of thousands of years (prior to now), and not hundreds of thousands or millions.

[Quix]

Thanks.

There are a lot of good sleuths on there.

[B4Ranch]

Anti-gravitational, anti-magnetic and/or nuclear or a combination of all three. I am not a physicist but I can envision systems where all three would be used for hovering, forward propulsion and making what we consider as
‘impossible to survive” maneuvers.

[B4Ranch]

Imagine what some people think of the platypus? Photoshopped. Definitely!

[Bookwoman]

Here is a site with the original picture:
http://haber.mynet.com/detay/dunya/1700-yillik-mumyanin-esrari/542791

Here is the Above Top Secret site that has the photoshopped picture and the link to the real one:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread706863/pg1

[B4Ranch]

>>A vehicle that size, in my opinion, could have but one purpose, i.e. escape. It would be a space-faring version of Noah’s ark.<<

Have you considered that it could be simple a heavy cargo transport vehicle? Or perhaps a type of personnel transport vehicle? Consider how small our continental area is in relation to the land space on the entire planet and then study the number of aircraft we require to shuttle Americans and air cargo from one location to another every day of the week. Why can’t another society have similar requirements to ours?

[Quix]

INDEED.

[Quix]

SLICK WORK.