Skip to comments.I Forgive Herman Cain, the Only Conservative Left
Posted on 11/04/2011 2:53:12 AM PDT by EBH
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
Not a bad rule of thumb.
Being alive means making mistakes. Growing up means understanding that fact, and taking responsibility. Bad actors never take responsibility. Barack Obama honestly believes he's never made a mistake since getting elected; it's one of the few things I think he really means. Honestly.
That's why I kind of like Herman Cain's response to the media thugs. Cain isn't playing their game. I hope he checkmates them, move after move. Never play by their rules. Always set your own rules, or they will kill you. You can see their shotgun victims all over the political landscape.
That's why I magnanimously forgive Herman Cain for whatever his sins might be. I'm not interested, frankly. After Bill Clinton's and John Edwards' abuse of women, I'll forgive any decent man or woman. Got a DUI but went straight? Good on ya, mate. I'll vote for that.
But I will not be voting any time soon for a sociopath with flagrant personality disorders...
...Of course, who am I to forgive anybody? A good question. I will now evade it.
Let me ask you another one: who are the corrupt and dishonest mediots to condemn an honest man and give a free pass to unholy demagogues who are trying to rob you blind?
And yet, the media have arrogated to themselves that higher moral ground.
Do they live up to it? Are they models of good behavior? Gimme a break.
The media abuse their ideological monopoly every single day of the week, and we all know it. You can't go through an airport without being assaulted by CNN. It's a little like being a peasant in North Korea, with the giant loudspeakers trumpeting over the rice paddies 24/7.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
I have not contributed to any candidate...yet. While I like Cain and have been cautiously skeptical of the "allegations" against him...and that is what they were..."allegations," even with a settlement behind them.
This aritcle raises a darn good consideration...electing the imperfect human being. We're not electing a god or ruler and surely we're not supposed to elect a savior. Are we to eliminate all those with a "flaw" and then elect the worst candidate left standing?
Are we like pharisees ...casting stones at our own candidates? Will we in the long run shoot ourselves in the foot with a holier than thou attitude and end up with the worst candidate?
I guess in the end we all must search our own hearts and seek the wisdom of the Lord. We are choosing from amongst some very flawed men. From abortion stances to infidelity to out right deceptions of the masses, what is the worst? And who can get up off the ground and go and 'sin' no more?
There are hordes who would like to see that happen!
I might forgive him if only I knew what he’s actually done.
Exactly. What has Cain done that needs forgiveness for?! The writer would have everyone believe that Cain is guilty of something why else would he need forgiving!?
Not even a good try at trying to continue to malign a good man in an underhanded way!
Granted we don’t have all of the facts, but at this point the only thing I feel I need to forgive him for is not being prepared to respond to the media onslaught.
Maybe I am politically incorrect but if he made sexual innuendos or inappropriate comments - I’d like to ask - Who Hasn’t? I hear it everyday in workplaces even now - much less 12 years ago. IF he did something wrong I am sure he regrets it and will not repeat it.
And - so what? It was 12 years ago and he isn’t doing it and I certainly know he won’t do it in the Oval Office - like some we know. How about JFK - a notorious womanizer and Catholic I might add.
The media is acting like it was the crime of the century. Doesn’t bother me.
The big issue here is that if we cave in it will amount to letting our enemies choose our candidates for us.
They will whittle down the field until we are stuck with a RINO of their choosing.
It’s time to contribute NOW!
I know and I guess that is what is really bothering me lately, more so than the media circus. The tactic of the left to drum up some "sin" so the conservative base 'won't vote for' whoever because of ....blah, blah, blah.
One needs to consider is the base being played for their holiness? I've seen my fair share of posts right here on FR saying ...well if he did x I won't/can't vote for XXXX. And if this attack on Cain is coming from the right, then they are counting on an unforgiving nature of the base.
In my mind, this makes the person who executed or orchestrated this attack actually holding that quirk alluded to in the article and a far worse candidate.
What if he’s on video grabbing Lindsey Graham’s boobs?
I don’t see anybody else to support but Cain. Formerly I supported Perry, but I think he has eliminated himself. I would have supported Palin if she ran, but she didn’t. I half-heartedly like Gingrich but anti-AGW is an extremely important issue for me and Gingrich is on the couch with Pelosi on that one.
So I’m left with Cain, by default.
But I have some questions:
1. Even if the original “harrassment” charges are 100% bogus (and I’m willing to believe that they are) Cain himself surely knew that they were there, in his background, ready to spring up. He remembered them when he ran for Senate and he warned his then-campaign-manager that they could be an issue. But now he’s trying to say that he just didn’t remember? That he didn’t remember if it was one-month severance or maybe 3 months, or possibly 6 months (when it was, in fact a year)? He didn’t forget. How many times in YOUR life have you been formally accused of sexual harassment? It’s not something you forget, no matter how bogus the charges. So why wasn’t he more prepared? Did he really think it wouldn’t come up? Did he really think he could slough it off with half-answers? Did he really think that the conservative-hating media would let him slide? Why didn’t he display some tactical intelligence here, prepare for this issue, and maybe even get it out there in the open, himself, instead of saying back in the spring “there are no skeletons in my closet”? Fair or unfair, bogus or not, did he really think this wouldn’t come up as a “skeleton”?
2. What was all that about accusing the Perry campaign? First of all, accusing them of WHAT? Revealing something that he should have revealed himself? Revealing something that you KNOW with 100% certainty, Obama would find out about and bring out in the open in the general campaign? Even assuming the worst about the Perry campaign, how is it even germane to the issue? Did the Perry campaign CAUSE those sexual harassment charges to be brought in the first place? Isn’t the history of those charges something that SHOULD come out now, well before the general election? Are the Cain people saying that the Perry people owed Cain a coverup on this issue? Are the Cain people saying that a coverup was even remotely possible? And then, it turns out they are now NOT accusing the Perry campaign! One friggin day later! What IS it with the Cain campaign? Are they daft? Are they leaderless? Are they rudderless? What was IN that cigarette in that famous smoking ad?
So the Cain Train is leaving the station, right now, carrying our last, best hope to make a difference to this badly abused nation...
I am sure that some Bachmann, Santorum, and Gingrich people honestly believe that their candidate is the best conservative, but the author may be correct.
if he made sexual innuendos or inappropriate comments - Id like to ask - Who Hasnt?I haven't. I've been in the workplace for decades -- in business and government -- and I never did it once. And I have many, many co-workers who I am quite confident also never did it either.
Yes when I was younger I shared off-color sexual jokes with my peers. But never in a workplace situation in the presence of women. I have ALWAYS respected women in the workplace and almost every man I know was the same way, even those who believed that a woman's place is in the home.
Rudeness towards woman is an anomaly in the workplace, at least in my experience, and not the rule, despite what the hags and witches of NOW would have you believe.
When was the last time YOU were accused of sexual harassment or sexually inappropriate behavior of any kind?
I can answer with absolute certainty for me: never.
Most Americans are CIVIL to one another and to say otherwise is bull sh*t.
#2 Again, there is no cover-up. It is a non-disclosure agreement. He would need agreement with the women to come out as you desire.
I saw we throw it right back at them just like they did to us....”RACISTS!” Only this time, it is true!
Forgive him for what? Alleged BS? I’d forgive him for some rookies blunders, he’s authentic and not scripted, which is what I want instead of a cardboard replica of a human being.
Non-disclosure does NOT prevent you from saying “I have two settlements in my past regarding allegations of sexual harrassment”.
Please just answer that question.
Cain himself briefed his then-campaign manager on the issue back in his Senate campaign. Was that a violation of non-disclosure?
Again, I’m going to repeat the question in the clearest language I can muster:
Does non-disclosure mean that you cannot mention that a case existed and a settlement was reached?
Please answer that question.
And you glossed over #2. WTF exactly WAS the Perry campaign accused of doing and why walk that accusation back exactly one day later?
That is the single most amateurish act of ANY presidential campaign I have EVER witnessed in my life and ever read about in US history.
If you can defend that, then you have stars in your eyes.
(And I am NOT a Perry supporter. I KNOW the Perry campaign is over and I will not vote for him in the primary, no matter what else is going on.)
I’ve been saying this for days. We need to just say So? There is no perfect Herman Cain waiting in the wings. It’s imperfect Cain, or Romney. Or obama.
Cain is the only conservative left. I’d rather have a conservative who may have had marital issues in his past, and may not know the most astute way to deal with a scandal, in the WH rather than Romney or Bammy.
That’s the choice we have.
So stop analyzing whether it’s true, and “Just Say ‘So’?”
Actually done? Being a black Conservative.
Notice the trend here? No fact, no evidence, nothing but rumor, hearsay and accusation. As soon as one accusation is refuted the slime merchants move on to a new anonymous sourced accusations.
An accusation been made, Cain refuted it. The scum behind this attack now need to forced to put up even a single shred of evidence to back up their smears, not just be allowed drop it for the next smear attack.
“I’m not interested, frankly”
This is the only sensible approach to the left’s attempt to lynch Herman Cain. It doesn’t take a genius to listen to the guy and understand he is honest, sincere and knows how to solve problems. And that he intends to apply his knowledge as president.
Any distortion of past events in which women tried to flirt with him in pursuit of financial gain are beneath garbage.
I believe you and thankfully the majority of men and women follow your example.
However, there are men who abuse their positions of power and women who seek advancement through sexual favors or, seek attention and compensation for careless comments/jokes/compliments/conversations - when they were not directly involved - just offended.
During my 40+ years in entry level jobs and positions of authority, with several large and small companies; I have witnessed colleagues who caused trouble, were vindictive, manipulative, immature, over worked, underpaid, envious, jealous, fearful, rude, obnoxious, grudge carriers and those who, thankfully, were job-focused, helpful, forgiving and forgetful.
Why would he go public with a completely non issue making it an issue?
How about this. Provide even ONE single shred of evidence to back up the accusations.
Accusations were made. Cain refuted them. Rather then demand, as you are, Cain PROVE the lies untrue, the burden of proof lies with the accusers.
Don’t fall for these gutter slime political tactics. It is NOT the job of the accused to prove his innocence.
I guess I should have said - who wouldn’t have been accused with hyper-sensitive feminists looking for offense in the 1990s.
A picture on your desk of you with your wife at the beach would be considered a Hostile Workplace.
Some women flirt and when it is reciprocated or commented on they scream harassment. Less nowadays but in the 1990s?
I am happy for you that you have always been appropriate and respectful and careful - good on ya.
Anonymous sources, accusations and hearsay are NOT proof of anything.
Innocent until proven guilty is the standard and so far all we have been given is a whole lot of accusation and NO facts.
it is not Cain's job to prove the slanderous accusations false. It is the accusers job to prove them true and so far they have offered NOTHING but accusations and rumor.
I see an iconic video image from Star Wars.
Obiwan saying, “There is another”.
Short of a felony CONVICTION, Cain has my vote and my money.
I’m simply not going to let Perry and the Media pick my candidate this time.
The longer this scandal stays on the forefront the better it is for Obama.
Am I accusing him of sexual harrassment?
Will you please point to where I accused him of that or agreed that those charges are non-bogus.
Please show me my words to that effect.
I am saying he and his dimwit manager are amateurish.
If you can answer even ONE of my questions, I’ll buy you a beer.
For you to fall back on the “prove it or shut up” defense when I’m not accusing him of being guilty of any of those original charges is the height of amateurishness on your part.
And you always pride yourself on being so logical.
You’ve got stars in your eyes. If ANY other candidate behaved this way your antenna would be up. But you’re “all in” so your logical defenses have been washed away as if in a flood.
These days, with everybody looking for a slick $, especially women, if a man just tweaks a woman’s birthday necklace and says how pretty it is, it’s an opportunity for a sexual harassment charge and some $$’s for another new necklace. lol
Much less overhearing men share an off color joke...now there’s some real new necklace $$’s.
When saying something like that will raise more questions, start the circus etc. Yeah...I'd just keep my mouth shut. He has no reason nor requirement 'announce allegations.' Keep in mind they were only allegations, he was never convicted of a crime.
Cain himself briefed his then-campaign manager on the issue back in his Senate campaign. Was that a violation of non-disclosure?
Depending on what he told the manager maybe, maybe not. The manager may have dismissed the matter because of the non-disclosure agreement.
Again, Im going to repeat the question in the clearest language I can muster: Does non-disclosure mean that you cannot mention that a case existed and a settlement was reached? Please answer that question.
I guess my answer to that is another question, how would it benefit him to have disclosed "allegations?" When you apply for a job they ask about convictions, not allegations. Non-discloure agreements can take on many forms. I have one case in which discussing it is banned. So, it depends on the case and agreement.
And you glossed over #2. WTF exactly WAS the Perry campaign accused of doing and why walk that accusation back exactly one day later? That is the single most amateurish act of ANY presidential campaign I have EVER witnessed in my life and ever read about in US history. If you can defend that, then you have stars in your eyes. (And I am NOT a Perry supporter. I KNOW the Perry campaign is over and I will not vote for him in the primary, no matter what else is going on.)
First I didn't gloss over the Perry issue, I didn't answer it. I chose not to answer it as your paragraph went back off on the other rant about disclosing the allegations. Now, if the Perry issue is important to I guess his campaign manager screwed up. They should have just let the blogosphere unravel this mess...that the MSM/Press is trying to create. I can sort of understand how they got blind-sided as the matter was a non-issue in his senate campaign.
What ultimately is bugging me now and not related to our conversation at all is this: Are these companies doing the accused men a disservice by paying off the women?
I have worked for years in male dominated industries. As a woman I have to say I went into those industries with my eye wide open, understanding the male persona.
Did I hear a lot of ‘off color’ stuff, yes. The only time I got offended was when porn was posted within view of the general plant. I could care less if they had that stuff in their lunchboxes or lockers. And when they were asked to remove it, by me personally...they did it. Not because I was offended, but because as I explained...clients could see it.
We were making fun of the leftist secularists on another thread, concerning this oft (mis)quoted Bible verse.
So, I guess there are conservative secularists that also believe this is the end-all be-all philosophy to live by.
Did you bother to read the article or just the first line?
That tactic demonstrates how the left, or the “natural man” will never understand the concepts of Christianity without a transformed mind.
They believe that Christians walk around in some sort of “righteousness bubble” and will shun anyone that fails the standard.
They don’t understand that we all know that NONE but Christ has ever maintained that standard, including ourselves.
Do you forgive a man for claiming at first he did not recall something like this from only 12 years ago?
Please...he had to know this crap was out there.
Yes I know the media is unfair and yes I know the lefties are boors and some even possibly rapist.
But I see major issues with Cain.
We’ll see how this pans out but the fact that he said he didn’t recall much and all that parsing sounds to me like same old political bullshit from a guy claiming to be a preacher and above all that.
and no I don’t like a national sales tax either
my first gut over Cain a year ago was right
but ya’ll have fun with it
What Hermie(cain) SHOULD DO.........!!
He should say in a press briefing that he is willing to accept all the forgiveness he can get, for things he did NOT do..
He did not do the crime BUT he is willing to accept forgiveness for it.. by those that think he did something he didnt do..
BUT if you want to hate him for something he didnt do.. HE FORGIVES YOU...
I, too, have worked around men in all kinds of environments. In fact I deal better with men who are straight forward and direct. My sense of humor can be rather warped, but I don’t put up with vulgarity. And I’ve never been in a situation other than if I said ‘HEY! that the over the line stuff didn’t stop. And yes, porno pics on the walls is not acceptable unless it’s a totally male environment with little visitor traffic.
As for sexual harassment, you dress and conduct yourself like a hoochie momma and invite attention, you’re going to get it and eventually have to fight off those that will take advantage. lol And then of course there are some that will try to take advantage regardless. What I found that works is, “If you don’t back off, Bud, you’re going to find the most precious things you value up between your ears.’ And I say it in a very quiet soft manner that only he and I can hear so as to develop a private understanding without involving anybody else. Lots of times that will earn you their respect. And I only used that when just walking away didn’t work.
But mostly I’m just not going to troll the workplace looking for an opportunity to make a slick dollar off some guy or the company.
I guess my answer to that is another question, how would it benefit him to have disclosed "allegations?"You can't be that naive.
How old are you?
How long have you lived in the United States?
How many presidential campaigns have you followed in your lifetime?
If you are over 21 and grew up in the US then you are either incredibly naive or you are dissembling to defend your chosen candidate. I suspect the latter.
If you honestly think that this thing wasn't going to come out, in a CAMPAIGN AGAINST BARAK OBAMA AND THE CHICAGO MOB, then you are incredibly, incredibly naive.
But then, you aren't asking me to vote for you for President of the United States.
Herman Cain is. I expect more of him than I do of you.
He SHOULD f*ing know better and he acted (and continues to act) like he doesn't.
And that's pathetic. Seriously pathetic.
I'm willing to blame his dipsh*t campaign manager but if that's the case, then it's time for a change of staff, stat.
What ultimately is bugging me now and not related to our conversation at all is this: Are these companies doing the accused men a disservice by paying off the women?The answer is probably "yes" but it's also probably hard to argue against the bottom-line decision of "cheaper to do a quick payoff".
Of course, you then invite more false accusations, which is very likely what happened here. One liar got a payoff and encouraged another liar to step forward.
I 100% believe that Cain is innocent of misbehavior on the actual subject of the "allegations" and I don't CARE about the details.
What I care about is his inexperience as a campaigner. And it's showing. It's showing big time.
He might be getting a lot of campaign contributions, but then again, so did Perry, and Perry's money isn't going to help him and if Cain doesn't straighten up and fly right his money won't help him either, not in the long run.
I agree 100%. Supposing (without evidence) that, at some point when co-workers were drinking alcohol and socializing, he made a sex-related remark or gesture? I don't care. This is what happens when men and women go out drinking together. (Don't like it? Stay home with your husband or cat.)
Cain's response to the reports of the past occurrences has been clunky. I forgive him, and I hope he sharpens up for the *real* campaign that's getting underway. There hasn't been a single vote cast yet.
Just a minor quibble.....
“”allegations,” even with a settlement behind them.”
It is my understanding from Cain directly speaking on this, that there was NO “settlement”. It was a severance which is different.
I am not naive and you are exhibiting the exact thing this aritcle notes.
How old are you? How old are you? Really? How long have you lived in the United States?...Really? Campaigns followed...Really? C’mon you are a better FReeper than that, you’ve been around a long time and I am not a spring chicken here anymore either. None of those questions are pertinent to the discussion as the discussion is not about me.
How many discrimination or harassment cases have you handled in your lifetime? How many times have you had to testify or make statements to lawyers, the EEOC, worker’s compensation and the like? Obviously my previous posts indicate I’ve been around the block with this stuff more than once. How about you? Ever discuss such matters with your HR department or lawyers? Ever have to sit and listen to testimony given in an EEOC office?
I am not saying it would not come out, but I am asking you to consider the issue may not have been in his court to bring it up. He may not have been legally able to out himself. He may have had to wait for someone else to do it.
I provided you with a point by point response to your ‘he should have’ straw argument. All of them reasonable and having a strong probablity of being the legal reasons. You may not like them, but rarely is litagation of any kind likeable.
You are free to stubbornly reject them, but your attack on me personally is uncalled for. There was no right way or wrong way for Cain to handle this issue. If he outed himself the MSM would still be in this frenzy and if you can’t see that...well I can’t help you.
As far as how Cain is acting...you’d have to ask him. I can’t answer for him other than to remind you of what they did to Sarah Palin and her baby. You are correct, this is going to be one of the dirtiest campaigns in our lifetimes and campaign staff not up to the task need to be removed. But with that in mind, in my very first post to this thread, I asked the pertinent question...
Who are we electing and is it perfection of a king, god, or savior? With an election this dirty...looking for perfection in a GOP candidate to pass muster with “them,” is the trap. This article is correct. We are going to have to ‘forgive’ a lot in our candidates...if they are going to win the White House.
You are correct, if it was a severance it supplies a whole other context regarding the allegations.
Regarding question 1, I would break it down into two parts:
A) Memory: We know he mentioned something to his senate campaign manager, but precision is absent here. I am not sure he said anything other that a general “there’s something out there.” This is important because we now know via the cbs report from the attorney that Cain did not sign settlement documents. The claims were made against the corporation. Cain’s involvement was so minimal as to justify poor or nonexistent memories of the details.
In trial law class at law school, the prof ran us through an experiment where, without telling us it would be important, he rattled off a series of descriptive facts. Then he quizzed us, right then and there, within minutes of the reading. Our performance was abysmal. We didn’t think it was important at the time so we didn’t process it for long term memory. The prof went on to say this is why you have statutes of limitation and other practical measures used to capture event data while it is still hot, because once it grows cold, getting to justice may be impossible.
So holding Cain to a 12 year old event that was exceedingly trivial in his view at the time is inconsistent with the science of memory, and therefore probably grossly unfair.
Tactics. I have represented political clients. In one case I had a client who had a relatively minor drug offense that happened decades ago. You would think that something that actually happened to you of that magnitude would be something you strongly remembered. Not so in this clients case. So poor was his memory of the event that he asked me to retrieve the court record so he would be ready to answer accurately should the issue be raised.
But did he lead with the negative? No. Politics is sales. You dont start out selling a product by saying pay no attention to the scratch on the paint job. Tactical reasoning would demand that he let someone else bring it up first, especially it he personally viewed it as almost completely trivial.
Blocks failure here was not, I suspect, a lack of awareness, but a lack of imagination. He did not come into this understanding the ingenuity of the left in manufacturing such a potent bracketing context from whole cloth. In Cains and Blocks view, the events were truly trivial. Every reasonable person would know and accept that.
But the left are battle-hardened propagandists, and are quite good at bracketing, the art of taking any random victim and putting them before the public eye in a context of negative emotive associations. It honestly doesnt matter whether the stories are true or not. The public is being programmed to reflexively link Cain with Sexual Harassment, thus tying him to the negative emotions associated with that.
Understand this for what it is. It is an attack on the enthusiasm gap. People can keep strong positive emotions that drive proactive behavior (like voting) where the basis of that enthusiasm has not been seriously challenged. Reprogram the public to throw some cold water on their own thinking (were stuck with tainted candidate X.), and you can put a serious dent in the enthusiasm and thus the vote count in the end game.
This is what they did to Palin, aided and abetted by several unworthy persons here on FR. Bracketing is effective. The only defense is a pervasive rejection of the irrational associations. Demand facts. Reverse the bracketing. Change the subject. But above all, dont let the left control the conversation. As I said with Palin, Ill say it again here. This is a hill worth dying on. Let them push us into their conditioned reflexes, and the battle is lost. We cant go there.
As for question 2, I don’t have enough accurate information to comment on it, so I’ll pass on that. Running too long here anyway.
Agree totally. Donated to Cain a month or so ago, put up the yard sign and applied the bumper sticker. This is a perfect time to donate some more.