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Preppers: What will happen long after the S has HTF?

Posted on 10/19/2012 10:08:13 PM PDT by Feline_AIDS

Preppers,

I'm new to this prepping thing, and I have some questions.

I don't know exactly what you're all prepping for, because I know there are different concerns in different parts of the country. Californians, for example, are more concerned about the big one than I am on the east coast. I'm more concerned about an EMP than people in Wyoming, probably.

But what about when the SHTF? I'm assuming by SHTF everyone means economic and thus governmental collapse. Is that right? No more USA?

I have some questions that are ignorant and simple, but I was born that way, so bear with me.

Even when the SHTF, the government of the United States will persist, simply because the government is the original prepper. Mt. Weather facility and all that. So what we really mean by "governmental collapse" is extreme lawlessness and no new goods or resources. Plus government non-intervention. The government may exist, but that doesn't change the fact that hungry/thirsty/angry people will be fighting for resources. When the SHTF, Americans will have to be self-reliant without any support from any public utility or service. Many, many people will die. Many more will be desperate and act in ways they'd never imagine before they die.

How long do you all expect this state of things to last? If all public utilities in the US were permanently shut off, wouldn't it only be a matter of weeks before the great die-off happened? Dehydration would get most of them, then the rapid spread of waterborne illnesses would get lots of those left. Gangs would form and survive longer through unpleasant means. When will the well-prepped prepper stick his head out of his hidey-hole?

Because the government will persist in some capacity, it's reasonable to expect they'd eventually try to straighten things out. Maybe I'm crazy for thinking that, and I don't mean that the correct response to disaster is to sit and wait for Uncle Sam to carry us out on his shoulders. What I mean is that I don't see how the SHTF situation would last more than 6 months, max. A new, smaller society would form and rebuild, most likely without the tech we have today because the industries that support that tech would be gone.

I guess I'm just trying to reconcile two things in my brain. 1) The US government will be present in some form not too long after the catastrophe. Less than a year. Not in its ubiquitous wannabe-omnipotent present state, but it would return. This doesn't mean safety or salvation, but it probably does mean cooperation. Possibly the return of some order. And some society would develop that is fueled by the self-reliance of the remaining people. 2) Most preppers seem to be expecting a lifetime of bushcraft.

Parting thought: If Obama wins reelection, I will take prepping much more seriously in the next few weeks/months. If he doesn't, I will continue to prep for more localized catastrophes.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Conspiracy; History; Outdoors
KEYWORDS: bugout; economiccollapse; preppers; shtf; vanity; zombies
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1 posted on 10/19/2012 10:08:21 PM PDT by Feline_AIDS
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To: Feline_AIDS

I won’t last long anyway, just too worn out and used up. I will do my best to make things unpleasant for anyone who rattles my cage.


2 posted on 10/19/2012 10:15:00 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Feline_AIDS
Long after the SHTF, I expect people will gradually band together with other like-minded groups of survivors. Groups will grow, expand, possibly class with ideologically different groups, and build up local governments. Read up on life in rural communities during King Phillip's war -- thats how I picture things being. Just replace Indian warriors with marauding bandits, looters, and hoods.

I imagine countries like China will move in and attempt to occupy, and how that ends would depend on how much of the US government stays functional.

3 posted on 10/19/2012 10:17:09 PM PDT by Wyrd bi ful ard
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To: Feline_AIDS

I see the serious preppers and I have the same questions that you do.

I think that I might be fearful if I lived in a big city... but I don’t.

I wonder what kinds of plans are in place, but I know that EMS has trained for a disaster on the New Madrid fault. These buildings just aren’t going to stand.

Hopefully most people will keep level heads and hopefully, in places where panic might rule, law enforcement can contain it.

It’s all very hard to anticipate or know.


4 posted on 10/19/2012 10:18:24 PM PDT by Winstons Julia (Hello OWS? We don't need a revolution like China's; China needs a revolution like OURS.)
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To: Winstons Julia

Wow, as a Prepper, I have a farm and2 years provisions for 10 people....go figure..


5 posted on 10/19/2012 10:30:52 PM PDT by richardtavor
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To: Feline_AIDS

I am a prepper of sorts. Realistically, I am only prepping for a shtf scenario that would last up to 2 months. I don’t have the resources right now to do any better. So, in addition to my respectable armory, I have canned food, water, medical items, and other barterable items to suit my family for up to 2 months. I am attempting to increase these supplies all the time. So, hopefully we will better prepared beyond a 2 months disruption.

I don’t expect the total collapse of civilization only a lot of economic stress or temporary disorder following a bad natural disaster or social upheaval. If we get so bad, that is, Mad Max bad, I will deal with that if that ever comes.

If I had the money, I would buy some land far outside the city, preferably near a small town which would offer the possibility of mutual self-defense and barter. As it stands now, I am outside the main beltway of the closest major city. It’s good to be outside of the city, I just wish it was further out.

Anyhow, I think it’s wise for people to stockpile supplies and prepare to take care of themselves, if such a disruption of law and order or basic services should ever happen. It’s completely logical.


6 posted on 10/19/2012 10:31:09 PM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: Feline_AIDS
Strawman. You set up your definition of what you think SHTF is.

The SHTF for me Oct 2008 during the market crash. That was economic. I mostly managed that (no running water), and hit the road to repo technical equipment for a leasing company. Glad I had the pistol along, and called the local constabulary before I went door-to-door with my piece of paper and a locksmith.

Dec 2009, SHTF in a more personal way with a serious injury that left me in ICU for 2 weeks and cripple for most of a year. After I got out of the hospital, I lived on stored rations with forage. No running water for half of that year.

Things got somewhat better after that, but another downturn and I went back on stored rations and forage. I had running water for most of that time.

I have store bought food today, and running water (still no running hot water, since 2008), but you can bet I restocked stored rations first.

/johnny

7 posted on 10/19/2012 10:38:08 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Feline_AIDS
Personally I shall retire to my bunker to plot my impending takeover of the world. Those cheerleaders who wouldn't date me? They'll all be sorry...

Well, OK, maybe not. "Prepping for what?" is actually a very good question. There are several categories of potential threats that require some preparation, some very likely, some less so. Fortunately the really bad ones come under the latter category, but it doesn't mean they won't happen anyway.

1. Natural disaster requiring evacuation. Can you gather the requirements to keep yourself and family alive and comfortable if you have to leave your home for a safe area? Do you have an evacuation plan? Have you looked into routes? Have you considered probable destinations? You cannot depend on government for this but you'd be silly not to recognize that they really do have plans, however imperfect, and that you'd be better off knowing them than not.

2. Infrastructure breakdown, i.e. power, water, transportation, etc. Here you are not planning to move anywhere right away, at least. Can you provide clean water for yourself and your family for a week or so? Food? Commonly-needed medicines? Home defense?

3. Economic/societal breakdown. Do you have enough petty cash on hand to tide you over if the ATMs aren't resupplied for weeks and the banks don't allow you to withdraw more than a small, stipulated amount? This actually happened in Argentina not too long ago. Do you have a plan for obtaining food on a regular basis, i.e. barter, growing it yourself, deep storage? Will the lack of these things force you to move? Some areas will, after all, be simply insupportable, i.e. downtown Manhattan. If so, do you have a plan and a destination? These will not be the same as item 1 necessarily.

4. Zombie apocalypse. It's code for the real end of the world after which you will, if you survive, have to begin rebuilding in the most survivable of all human units, the small community. Here the questions tend to be nebulous - where could you go, close by? Are you already there? If the latter, what can you do to make your community survivable? Do you have a network of friends who have similar concerns? Do you know where you might get things you can't store? Do you have an idea how to build a human Ark and how you might contribute to its defense and its prosperity?

Different disasters, different scenarios, different needs. You can't be perfectly ready for all of them unless you're independently wealthy and healthily paranoid - if so, you are hardly likely to be needing my advice. If you're just starting, start small and expand outward in concentric circles from readiness for the likely to readiness for the extremely unlikely. Food, water, clothing, shelter, defense - could you do a day with you and yours? Three days? A week? Could you do it in your current house without power or water? Somewhere else in your neighborhood? Your town? Your region?

There's tons of advice on this and the preppers' forums what to do to accomplish this. Clarifying what you want to accomplish in steps is a very good start. Best of luck.

8 posted on 10/19/2012 10:43:39 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Feline_AIDS

How about a luxury bunker?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/trending-now/company-sells-post-apocolypse-survival-shelters-175818449.html


9 posted on 10/19/2012 10:45:18 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Feline_AIDS

There is a TV series called “Preppers”, IIRC it is on Natl. Geo. If not there, it is on the History Channel.
Personally, I do not see the point of intensive prepping.
Most of those on the series tend to live in semi uninhabitable parts of the USA, as in Nevada.
Some of them are devoting there entire lives 24/7 just in prepping. Some have a full years of provisions.
Sad way to spend one’s life.

In an area of low population, I can see prepping for natural disasters, with a months provisions, but that is about it.
If you live in a highly populated area, there will be little you can do to fight of the hordes.
Can you imagine being in Chicago when SHTF?

My prepping took place by leaving the USA, and leaving all material goods behind.
I now live on a beach in a tropical climate.
I will not freeze or go hungry, or die of thirst.


10 posted on 10/19/2012 10:49:51 PM PDT by AlexW
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To: Feline_AIDS
Most of the SHTF type scenarios I see (EMP, weather machines, Yellowstone) are unrealistic, but the one that concerns me and that I expect is an energy shortage, economic collapse, riots, martial law, and anarchy.

If the SHTF, I'm going north to a family property and 100 acres far away from the nearest city. Our strength is numbers and trust. We have water sources, wood, wild game, ability to garden, weapons, brains, work ethic, and most importantly, family. We'll make it. It won't be easy, but we'll make it.

11 posted on 10/19/2012 10:52:18 PM PDT by Darren McCarty (Holding my nose one more time to get rid of Eric Holder)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

honestly that will be the outcome for many of us, prepared or not. no one can hold out forever.


12 posted on 10/19/2012 11:41:10 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Feline_AIDS

SHTF can take many forms, so contingencies have to be flexible. It’s also not gonna end by waking up one day and finding everything back to normal. Gov might come back, or societies might slowly re-evolve locally/organically.

Semi-rural here, a whole little enclave of like-minded folks on quasi-sequestered, easy-to-defend terrain. Lots of skill sets, supplies, well-thought-out and well-practiced plans. We’re ready and coordinated for whatever might occur, but not foolish enough to think we really know what’s gonna happen at any stage in this thing. Twenty hours or twenty generations, we’ve given it some reasonable thought and preparation, and are just enjoying our lives at this point.


13 posted on 10/20/2012 12:13:06 AM PDT by dagogo redux (A whiff of primitive spirits in the air, harbingers of an impending descent into the feral.)
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To: Feline_AIDS

If your neighbor breaks in to your house to steal your food for his children, will you shoot him?


14 posted on 10/20/2012 12:18:06 AM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: richardtavor

I’m not putting down preppers. In fact, we know where you are and we will be coming to your place with the useful items we have.


15 posted on 10/20/2012 12:19:32 AM PDT by Winstons Julia (Hello OWS? We don't need a revolution like China's; China needs a revolution like OURS.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Do you have internet access?


16 posted on 10/20/2012 12:22:40 AM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: Secret Agent Man

Just give me a hidey hole with a good field of view, some water and granola bars, and a good rifle. I’ve got brand new eyes, even if nothing else is up to speed.


17 posted on 10/20/2012 12:32:16 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Billthedrill; Feline_AIDS

On 9/11...people where I live panicked and went for gas. I was driving by them on my way home from work. This caused huge lines and some stations increased their price ... (they were penalized for doing it)...however, the next day, it was over.

As a result of this, I always keep enough gas in my tank to get me from where I live now, to my family’s house in the country in case of emergency.

Some years ago we had a derecho... it took out power all around me (but oddly not in my immediate neighborhood) and the outage lasted 6 days. The stores all shut down.

As a result of this, I keep sufficient food in my house.


18 posted on 10/20/2012 12:34:34 AM PDT by Winstons Julia (Hello OWS? We don't need a revolution like China's; China needs a revolution like OURS.)
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To: Feline_AIDS

I’m fully prepped. I have Jesus Christ.


19 posted on 10/20/2012 12:45:27 AM PDT by AmericanSamurai
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To: Feline_AIDS

The population will be in significant decline, in the coming years. Moslems will try to kill of everwho is left.


20 posted on 10/20/2012 12:51:52 AM PDT by exnavy (The time is upon us, fish or cut bait, may God guide your heart.)
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To: Feline_AIDS

Prep to live and do not live to prep.


21 posted on 10/20/2012 12:53:26 AM PDT by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media.)
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To: AlexW

Did I ever mention I was living my life vicariously through you ?

Good to see you posting :)


22 posted on 10/20/2012 12:59:03 AM PDT by onona (If it is to be, it begins with me.)
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To: AmericanSamurai
I’m fully prepped. I have Jesus Christ.

Well, "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition!"

Regards,

23 posted on 10/20/2012 1:05:30 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: Born to Conserve
"If your neighbor breaks in to your house to steal your food for his children, will you shoot him?"

If I have to, because he's taking food from my children.
24 posted on 10/20/2012 2:20:38 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

Preppers’ PING!!


25 posted on 10/20/2012 2:21:58 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Winstons Julia

You can have all the bullets I have.


26 posted on 10/20/2012 2:22:28 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: AmericanSamurai
I’m fully prepped. I have Jesus Christ.

For such a time as this . . . http://patburt.com/

27 posted on 10/20/2012 2:23:38 AM PDT by Maudeen (Proverbs 3:5-6)
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To: Born to Conserve; JRandomFreeper
"Do you have internet access?"

Here's your sign.
28 posted on 10/20/2012 2:24:40 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: AmericanSamurai
As do I, but I also choose to obey the word:

But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5:8
29 posted on 10/20/2012 2:29:24 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Feline_AIDS

Read about the Holy Roman Empire.

Hint: It wasn’t Holy, wasn’t Roman, and wasn’t an Empire.

The currency was lies.

Hundreds of small fiefdoms developed over time—some good, some not so good.

The rules were—there were no rules.

and—everyone who survived lived one day at a time.


30 posted on 10/20/2012 2:33:19 AM PDT by cgbg (No bailouts for New York and California. Let them eat debt.)
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To: Maudeen

I’m fully prepped. I have Jesus Christ.

For such a time as this . . . http://patburt.com/


31 posted on 10/20/2012 2:33:40 AM PDT by Maudeen (Proverbs 3:5-6)
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To: onona

“Did I ever mention I was living my life vicariously through you ?”
________________________________

Gosh, onona...should I feel honored? hahaha
You know, some years back, before Obumbo was anointed, there were a few “dog in a manger” FReepers that took delight in castigating me, calling me a traitor for becoming an Expat.

They pretty much shut up when I reminded them that America was founded by EXPATS.

I still have great love for America as it was founded.
My great, great, great uncle was the Uncle Sam, Samuel Wilson, Troy NY, war of 1812.


32 posted on 10/20/2012 2:41:20 AM PDT by AlexW
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To: Winstons Julia

You should come extremely well armed as I am, and I am looking forward to meeting you (tongue in cheek!)


33 posted on 10/20/2012 3:19:56 AM PDT by richardtavor
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To: Winstons Julia
"I’m not putting down preppers. In fact, we know where you are and we will be coming to your place with the useful items we have."

The trouble with conservatives that say things like this, they are showing that at heart they are no different then our liberal friends, they want what we worked and paid for, for free.
34 posted on 10/20/2012 3:32:07 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Feline_AIDS

This is all under the assumption that the gov remains “our friend’. if o is relected i imagine them becoming hostile. In socialist countries people are stripped of every means we americans have today. preppers will be the only ones not at the mercy of the gov.. they will become public enemy.number 1.


35 posted on 10/20/2012 3:35:49 AM PDT by Donnafrflorida (Thru HIM all things are possible.)
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To: Nailbiter

bflr


36 posted on 10/20/2012 3:47:52 AM PDT by Nailbiter
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To: GeronL
We haver a 40' x 20' 15ft underground unit on the Farm.

http://www.atlassurvivalshelters.com/aboutus/nbc/backyard/

This is add'l basement storage area w/ entrance door to shelter unit, below foundation, out of view.


37 posted on 10/20/2012 3:55:22 AM PDT by carriage_hill (The 0bummer Penguin: I played this country like a harp from hell.)
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To: Kartographer

If you look through the post on this thread you will find examples of the three types of people that I warn many of you about, two are the “I’ve got lots of guns and plenty of ammo and I’ll just take what I need.” and the “I don’t prep because I don’t believe anything is going to happen, but if it does preppers should share with me.”

Call many of these people on their post and many will backdown or just not respond in their embarrassment, but many will reply back in righteous anger the same anger that you get from most Libs who are shocked and infuriated by preppers not putting sharing to the forefront. Even though many of us do, just we don’t to the point of endangering our own families.

Now as I said some the “I’ll take what I want crowd” when confronted will often back off saying things like “I was just joking”, but I don’t believe it. When I read their post I can’t help but think of this quote from one of my favorite westerns ’Open Range’: “Most times a man will tell you his bad intentions if you listen, let yourself hear.” I’ve ‘heard’ their intentions and they aren’t good.

The third type that I warn about are those who wish to bring God’s Armageddon into the discussion as if they know that it will be God’s will should some catastrophe befall us. They claim this despite the fact that the history of man is full of direr times which were caused by nature or man himself. History has shown us all too well that men do not need God to help them muck things up to a point were their fellows cry out for God to end it all and relieve them of their misery. Some of these I like to ask: “Do you wear a seatbelt when you drive or ride in a car? Do you have car insurance?” And if they reply yes then I tell them their faith must not be as strong as they claim.

The real problem with the ‘its God’s will’ crowd who will be that many will want to see you punished as they will see your prepping as you trying to dodging God’s punishment. This group along with the “I don’t prep, but you should share” group will be among the first to report you and your ‘hoarding’ to the powers that be in their efforts to make sure you too suffer just as they do. The first group because as I said they see you as trying to escape the rightful wrath of God (as if they know the Lord’s mind) and the second because you proved them wrong.

You can be fairly certain that all three groups will hate you as they will be quick to blame you for the ‘troubles’ because in their twisted way of thinking your prepping brought the ‘troubles’ and therefore you need to be punished for your transgression


38 posted on 10/20/2012 3:56:16 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

You are an intelligent, thoughtful person. I agree entirely, with this one word. There is a moment. Just one. A moment where they “Law Enforcement” types that would try to impose order on chaos aren’t strong enough yet to “take” and “share” that an organized community can resist them. That moment HAS to be anticipated, prepared for, and responded to vigorously. It is a long shot, but about the only one. If a group of folks can “thread the needle” they could potentially form the nucleus of a rapidly expanding “crystal” of folks who would insist on reinstating The FOunder’s intention. It could work.


39 posted on 10/20/2012 4:26:33 AM PDT by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: Born to Conserve
If your neighbor breaks in to your house to steal your food for his children, will you shoot him?

What other option is there? Nobody will take what I have by force.
40 posted on 10/20/2012 4:35:49 AM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: carriage_hill
From your picture, by my count, you have a several months supply of toilet paper, and several weeks supply of food.

Why do you need toilet paper after you run out of food?

41 posted on 10/20/2012 4:51:03 AM PDT by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: Kartographer

Great post cuz it’s true.

A governing principle of prepping is OPSEC..

A second is being “grey man”, not Marpat, Alice pack, well fed man obvious when those around are thinning man.


42 posted on 10/20/2012 4:53:58 AM PDT by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur: non vehere est inermus)
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To: Born to Conserve

The real question is whether you’ll let your children starve so that your neighbors can eat.


43 posted on 10/20/2012 4:56:46 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: norwaypinesavage
Why do you need toilet paper after you run out of food?

You ever have women in the house ?

44 posted on 10/20/2012 5:20:36 AM PDT by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: norwaypinesavage

That pic’s a few weeks old; there’s more there now.

There’s easily 3-4mos worth of food there for 2 people; it’s subsistence living; not banquet dining. Dad and I are the only ones I’m prepping for. Mom passed away in May; my cat just died last month. There’s also 2 add’l end shelves on left you can’t see, which are filled. Also have 6 wells, hand pumps, Berkey filter syste, and am adding TP and food to shelves, each week.


45 posted on 10/20/2012 5:34:32 AM PDT by carriage_hill (The 0bummer Penguin: I played this country like a harp from hell.)
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To: Feline_AIDS

I guess it all depends on what scenario you’re preparing for. And I think it’s sort of a spectrum.

Personally, I don’t see the zombie/mad max on steroids scenario as being survivable, particularly for those of us in the cities, so why prep for it? It also seems like a depressing way to spend your life.

I think a more modest scenario of short to medium term unrest and privation is more realistic as well as survivable. I think the mormons do a pretty good job of preparing for this level of unpleasantries. And it doesn’t become an all-consuming task. So, why re-invent the wheel? They’ve already given it a great deal of thought.


46 posted on 10/20/2012 6:14:47 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Leftists are the small hive beetles of the American hive)
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To: norwaypinesavage

“you have a several months supply of toilet paper, and several weeks supply of food.”

Who said the poster was done prepping? We prep as things are thought of and discounts can be had so our preps are also always “out of balance” as we go along.


47 posted on 10/20/2012 6:22:36 AM PDT by CodeToad (Padme: "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.")
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To: Born to Conserve

“If your neighbor breaks in to your house to steal your food for his children, will you shoot him?”

Instantly. What he takes he takes from our mouths. All these problems leading up to the SHTF situation has been takers taking and not producers producing. So, after all has been said and done we are left with what we store and yet here comes another taker to take what’s left? *BANG* I will do so with extreme prejudice! They take all my life and now they want to take what’s left.


48 posted on 10/20/2012 6:26:59 AM PDT by CodeToad (Padme: "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.")
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To: AlexW

“My prepping took place by leaving the USA, and leaving all material goods behind.
I now live on a beach in a tropical climate.
I will not freeze or go hungry, or die of thirst.”

Yeah, but should world order break down you won’t survive the pirates.


49 posted on 10/20/2012 6:29:32 AM PDT by CodeToad (Padme: "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.")
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To: Feline_AIDS
Preppers: What will happen long after the S has HTF?

FReepers won't have to worry about the damned socialists as much and can focus on more dire threats such as spelling Nazis and Blog Pimps?

50 posted on 10/20/2012 6:32:25 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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