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Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) October 30-31, 2003
Various | October 30, 2003 | sweetliberty

Posted on 10/30/2003 10:27:17 AM PST by sweetliberty

TERRI'S FIGHT
(Daily Thread 2 - October 30-31, 2003)
Link back to thread 1 - October 29, 2003

Contained in thread 1:

Summary of Terri's bone scan, transcript from "On the Record" response from Bobby Schindler and Attny. Pat Anderson to Michael Schiavo's appearance on Larry King Live, link to where to search public records for Pinellas County (for a fee), information on Terri's Lights, link to transcript from Larry King Live interview with Michael Schiavo and George Felos, synopsis of radio interview with Michael Schiavo's brother in Pennsylvania, summary of interview with Pat Anderson on Michael Reagan's show, portion of testimony from Schiavo medical malpractice trial, some links to information on the Florida death cult, names and email address for the Florida Supreme Court, information on previous GAL, Richard Pearse, Jr., information on GAL currently being proposed Jay Wolfson and links back to earlier threads on the case. Of course this overview isn't comprehensive, but my main point in this section is to provide easy reference to what could be important information. Also, links to other websites focusing on Terri's fight can be found in thread 1, here.

Thanks to everyone for your contributions and for your dedication to this fight.

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Click on pic for Terri's Website.

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This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

FL_Engineer suggested that if you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

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Latest Threads On Terri's Case

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My apologies to (some of) the 'save Terri' posters here (a 'vanity' post)

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW - Schindlers Respond to Michael Schiavo's Larry King Love-Fest - PART1

Inside right-to-die case, a woman's real life (a few days old but not posted on first thread)

Michael Schiavo pleads case on CNN

What Should Happen With Terri S. (a "vanity" thread)

Schiavo lawyers challenge 'Terri's Law'


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: attorneyfromhell; daily; euthanasia; florida; forcesofevil; georgefelos; guardianfromhell; hino; merchantsofdeath; michaelschiavo; reallifeghouls; righttolife; schiavo; schindler; terri; terrischiavo
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Ping your lists!
1 posted on 10/30/2003 10:27:18 AM PST by sweetliberty
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To: Budge; Pegita; cyn; Ladysmith; Calpernia; Babalu; floriduh voter; dandelion; PleaseNoMore; ...
Terri's Army ping for new thread.

Those of you who are on this list now got there based on being an active poster on one of the long threads OR because you have asked to be on it. There are a few of you who have been added because you are new posters who've come onboard to help in the fight.

If you want to be on or off of this list, please let me know.

2 posted on 10/30/2003 10:32:08 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
Yo! Over here!!!
3 posted on 10/30/2003 10:37:25 AM PST by pgyanke (I want to sign up for Terri's Army!)
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To: sweetliberty
Do "we" have a date yet for the re-assignment hearing for guardian?

(Until the HINO is out of that position, Terri is still threatened with bad care/harmful lack-of-care, and Terri's family will still be dragged through mud every day...)
4 posted on 10/30/2003 10:37:51 AM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only support FR by donating monthly, but ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE; Budge
I think Felos is hoping to get the law overturned before the court appoints a GAL or before the opposition can find a way to toss the HINO out of the role of primary guardian. I don't see how that's acceptable though. I thought it was specified that a GAL would be appointed in 5 days from the time of Gov. Bush's executive order. Is the governor aware that this is apparently NOT being carried out?

Hey Budge, have you talked Gov. Bush's office lately? Hint, hint.

5 posted on 10/30/2003 10:42:48 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
BUMP!
6 posted on 10/30/2003 10:45:25 AM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: sweetliberty
One thing that keeps bothering me about these allegations that Michael Schaivo put Terri in the coma by abusing her is that Michael Schaivo actually took Terri's doctor/hospital (I'm not sure who the defendant(s) was/were) to trial and got a malpractice judgment.

I can't believe that the lawyers for the doctor/hospital didn't go over the records with a fine tooth comb for evidence that would suggest some other cause for Terri's condition. It wouldn't matter if her records were "sealed." The defendants in that lawsuit would absolutely have been entitled to them.

This just doesn't make sense to me.

It's obvious that he's a selfish bastard who exploited her condition for his own financial gain, after telling the jury he would care for her, and then reversing himself so he could use the money himself. He shouldn't be allowed to make any decisions for her.

But how could he have caused her coma, then have taken the doctor/hospital to trial, knowing that the causation of her condition would be the central issue, and that experts from the other side would have full access to the records and an incentive to blame it on him? I just don't think that could have happened.
7 posted on 10/30/2003 10:49:30 AM PST by lady lawyer
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To: sweetliberty; Admin Moderator
wow! yanked from Activism/Chapters AGAIN, this time within minutes!

Admin Moderator, are you on the side of wanting to see her killed?
8 posted on 10/30/2003 10:54:48 AM PST by Future Useless Eater (Freedom_Loving_Engineer)
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To: lady lawyer
But would/could they have ordered hitherto unperformed tests for her, absent a reason in evidence to do so. The bone scan (that we know about) happened only after Terri was found to experience pain during physical therapy.
9 posted on 10/30/2003 10:58:19 AM PST by The Red Zone
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To: lady lawyer
Your #7. I thought about that, too. The only thing I can think of is that at that time, the Schindlers may have encouraged and cooperated with Michael so that they could get money to rehabilitate and care for Terry. Things didn't fall out until after that.

Any suspicions that arose came much later, just as the remembering of Terri's so-called wishes, both of which are hearsay at this point.

That trial may have gone differently if Schindlers had raised the questions that are now flying around.

Maybe the Schindlers were misled as to Michael's intentions as to what he was going to do with the money after he got it. We can't really know that, nor do I know if the money was awarded on the basis of maintenance care or included the intention of attempts at rehabilitation and therapy.

10 posted on 10/30/2003 11:00:31 AM PST by Aliska
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To: lady lawyer
You raise a very valid question and I expect you will get some responses to it. But then, there are a great many things in this case that don't add up or make sense. Perhaps it was because there was never an investigation done and at that time the issue of possible foul play had been dismissed (maybe prematurely).

In any event, the malpractice suit, as I understand it, was based on Terri not having had a heart attack and was aimed at a gynocologist that Michael THOUGHT should have had knowledge of a potassium imbalance, neither being conditions which would automatically spur investigation of possible strangulation. The low potassium level wasn't disputed, I don't believe, but could be caused by lack of oxygen to the brain (for whatever reason), among other possiblities.

11 posted on 10/30/2003 11:02:11 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: lady lawyer
You make a point, but who would have suspected that Scott Peterson would be dumb enough to call his mistress hundreds of times just before and many times after his wife's disappearance.

I think it's arrogance. He had his in-laws believing that he was going to use the lawsuit funds for Terri's rehabilitation. At the time the police started investigating, Terri's parents couldn't comprehend that Michael may have actually been involved and defended him to the police.

I would never believe he would have gotten away with all he has so far. He lied about what he planned to use the funds for to get the jury to give him a big award. Perhaps the doctor had a previous malpractice suit and wanted to settle quickly.
12 posted on 10/30/2003 11:06:10 AM PST by FR_addict
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To: FL_engineer; Admin Moderator
I guess I don't understand either, why this is being pulled from activism. The activism HERE as a result of these threads were a BIG factor in getting Terri's Bill introduced and passed into law. There have been FReepers on the scene in Florida for weeks. We are hounding the media to tell the WHOLE story and finally starting to get results. We have acquired new members to FR strictly because of the information to be found here about the case and because of all the FReepers ACTIVELY trying to help. If all this doesn't qualify as activism, Perhaps you could tell us what the official FR definition of activism is.
13 posted on 10/30/2003 11:09:26 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: The Red Zone
I thought the bone scans were done about a year after she went into a coma. I can't imagine they would have completed a trial before that.
14 posted on 10/30/2003 11:11:08 AM PST by lady lawyer
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To: sweetliberty
unrelated but please prayer warriors while you are at it pray for those that are trapped in the Tropicana hotel parking garage collapse in Atlantic city.
This is local....for me, family and friends on the scene but safe.
Construction site, but people are missing, and injured.

JAN
15 posted on 10/30/2003 11:11:59 AM PST by ZAKJAN
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To: Budge; Pegita; cyn; Ladysmith; Calpernia; Babalu; floriduh voter; dandelion; PleaseNoMore; ...
Ping for some good news! ACLJ GETTING INVOLVED ON TERRI'S BEHALF!

Terri's Parents Want Their Voice Heard in Life-or-Death Case

If you want on or off this list, please let me know.

16 posted on 10/30/2003 11:13:53 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty; Admin Moderator; Jim Robinson; John Robinson
I don't understand either. Unless the mods are deliberately trying to back FR off from an "advocacy" position lest the ghouls win and then new age sewage comes back seeking vengeance on FR.
17 posted on 10/30/2003 11:15:02 AM PST by The Red Zone
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To: sweetliberty
Please add me to the list.
18 posted on 10/30/2003 11:17:28 AM PST by Lanza
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To: Aliska
It wouldn't have matter what the Schindlers thought or did, except to the extent that they would have kept quiet about the fact that Terri wanted to divorce Michael because he ws mean. And, I suppose that would have been an important piece of information for the defendants.

But the lawyers for the Defendants had an independent reason to find another way to explain Terri's condition that placed the blame on someone other than the Defendants. If, as people are now saying, there was evidence of physical battering, the defendants' experts should have picked that up without any hints from the Schindlers.

The story now just doesn't makes sense.
19 posted on 10/30/2003 11:17:42 AM PST by lady lawyer
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To: FR_addict
At the time the police started investigating, Terri's parents couldn't comprehend that Michael may have actually been involved and defended him to the police.

Fr. Rob wrote that the police came to Mr. Schindler around the time of the mishap after having been alerted by ER personnel (can't find that part now), and Mr. Schindler answered in the negative. There never was an investigation after that. Today Fr. Rob has also written that the father told him Terri had bruises on her neck.

"Also, Bob related, "it's in the medical record that when Terri was brought into the hospital she had bruises around her neck." Doctors for the Schindlers have testified that those bruises were consistent with manual strangulation."

20 posted on 10/30/2003 11:18:18 AM PST by Aliska
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To: sweetliberty
It's about time Jay....
21 posted on 10/30/2003 11:19:12 AM PST by The Red Zone
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To: Lanza
Done.
22 posted on 10/30/2003 11:20:11 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Aliska
Well, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBVIOUSLY Terri tried to choke herself! What else could it be??? </sarcasm>
23 posted on 10/30/2003 11:20:54 AM PST by The Red Zone
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To: Aliska
Well, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBVIOUSLY Terri tried to choke herself! What else could it be??? </sarcasm>
24 posted on 10/30/2003 11:21:58 AM PST by The Red Zone
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To: lady lawyer
But the lawyers for the Defendants had an independent reason to find another way to explain Terri's condition that placed the blame on someone other than the Defendants. If, as people are now saying, there was evidence of physical battering, the defendants' experts should have picked that up without any hints from the Schindlers.

True. I can't answer that.

Do you think the Schindlers are lying? Do you think they would lie to save their daughter?

25 posted on 10/30/2003 11:23:46 AM PST by Aliska
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To: lady lawyer
If, as people are now saying, there was evidence of physical battering, the defendants' experts should have picked that up without any hints from the Schindlers.

Assuming "normal" circumstances. But this is Floriduh, and we have a pretty good clue that heavy duty demons have gotten involved somewhere along the line.

26 posted on 10/30/2003 11:24:57 AM PST by The Red Zone
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To: lady lawyer
See if you can track down what the jury actually decided. Some of the jury's close questioning of Michael has been published here and indicates they were basing their award on what he promised to do for her. (Incidentally, the time frame HE set was supposed to be 50 years -- 100% at odds with his later statements about her "wishing" to die.)

Someone said elsewhere that the jury marked the award down 70% for the injury being Terri's own fault. If so (and I assume it is, thought I haven't seen documentation), it almost certainly means that the medical story presented to the jury was the one about potassium imbalance due to excessive dieting or even bulimia. I don't believe that diet story is true (there is strong medical reason to think otherwise), but it may have been believable to the jury at the time.

Ergo, whatever you/we can learn about that jury will very likely shed light here.

27 posted on 10/30/2003 11:25:54 AM PST by T'wit (Depart from me, ye cursed, into the everlasting fire... For I was thirsty and ye gave me no drink)
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To: sweetliberty
Thanks.
28 posted on 10/30/2003 11:26:22 AM PST by Lanza
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To: Admin Moderator; jimrob; JohnHuang2
The research and activism on this thread are spectacular and one of the reasons I love FR.

If this is not activism, emails, phone calls, press releases, research via the net and on location reports from FReepers living close to the situation...I really don't know what is.

I am adding my voice to those who want to see this thread located, always, where those who come to FR can find it immediately---we have contacted many people and directed them to FR for this very reason.


You guys do a great job in your decision making, would it be possible for you to reconsider our desire to keep this high on the sidebar on the front page....I believe, with my whole heart, that this is a matter Free Republic needs to support.

In this nation, we do not murder the 'imperfect'. Hitler did, starting with sterilization of the less than perfect and ending with the killing of first impaired and then those it considered enemies of the state.

I will not stand for this...not on hearsay evidence. Ever.

29 posted on 10/30/2003 11:26:28 AM PST by Republic
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To: Aliska
I have no idea. Maybe the Defendant's lawyers were incompetent. Maybe the physical evidence was too vague, without some corroboration that Michael was abusive. Maybe there was some procedural reason for the outcome. Maybe the Schindlers cooperated in blaming the doctor, even while suspecting there was some other explanation, just to get money. Maybe they were being dishonest then, rather than now. Maybe they are pure as the driven snow, and there is some other explanation.

I have no idea.

It just doesn't make sense.
30 posted on 10/30/2003 11:28:18 AM PST by lady lawyer
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To: sweetliberty
Finally!
31 posted on 10/30/2003 11:29:19 AM PST by Velveeta
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To: sweetliberty
bttt
32 posted on 10/30/2003 11:30:01 AM PST by lodwick (Wake up, America!)
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To: T'wit
...Incidentally, the time frame HE set was supposed to be 50 years -- 100% at odds with his later statements about her "wishing" to die...

How I wish Larry King had had this information when interviewing MS...this is disturbing and I am wondering where Pat Anderson was when it came to using this statement to expose MS's absolute destruction of his own stated intent for Terri.

33 posted on 10/30/2003 11:30:12 AM PST by Republic
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To: Republic; jimrob; John Robinson
Yes! I second (re-second) the motion.

How about FR having a temporary Terri sidebar?
34 posted on 10/30/2003 11:30:19 AM PST by The Red Zone
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To: The Red Zone
Terri tried to choke herself! What else could it be??? </sarcasm>

Misinformation to muddy the waters. I can't be as objective as I ought as I think the strangulation theory has credence since it was attempted on me by a strong, dominant man as I perceive the husband to be.

They lived in an apartment complex and strangulation doesn't make any noise, whereas screaming would.

Maybe it was truly a collapse from causes unknown and nobody has gotten it right to this point. Maybe the lawsuit was based on circumstantial facts that fell together and was supported by professional testimony and the medical records.

Sometimes insurance companies settle to keep the payout lower , even though they suspect differently and can't prove anything. There's a big difference for them between $1.2 mil and $17 mil. They risked a jury award of $17 mil.

Maybe both parties colluded or perjured themselves to get the money. How would I know?

35 posted on 10/30/2003 11:35:10 AM PST by Aliska
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To: lady lawyer
It wouldn't have matter what the Schindlers thought or did, except to the extent that they would have kept quiet about the fact that Terri wanted to divorce Michael because he ws mean

Catholic parents might not be very supportive of the idea of divorce and may have been kept in the dark.

36 posted on 10/30/2003 11:36:52 AM PST by Aliska
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To: Aliska
I thought it went to a jury.
37 posted on 10/30/2003 11:39:11 AM PST by lady lawyer
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To: sweetliberty
Another new article...second part of the Schindlers' response to the LKL interview.

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW - Schindlers Respond to Michael Schiavo's Larry King Love-Fest - PART 2

38 posted on 10/30/2003 11:39:11 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Aliska
Misinformation? I apologize, that was just meant to be silly humor. Agreeing with you that one would be blind to think this evidence suggests something "harmless."
39 posted on 10/30/2003 11:40:44 AM PST by The Red Zone
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To: lady lawyer
Maybe the Schindlers cooperated in blaming the doctor, even while suspecting there was some other explanation, just to get money

That is possible, and the whole thing is now coming back to haunt everyone.

I'll agree that it doesn't make sense, but there are some things that do make sense and are fishy.

40 posted on 10/30/2003 11:41:19 AM PST by Aliska
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To: Aliska
It breaks my heart that the Schindler's have had to tread so carefully, had to live under such a fear, terror, really, because MS frequently DENIED them the right to visit Terri as a punishment when he was angered by them.

That is living in pure hell. For many LONG years. Knowing that there is perhaps good evidence, overlooked by that HORRENDOUS judge, that MS, himself, caused terri's injury.

MS can see her, call her any name in the book, deny her even basic care, put up a do not recessutate (sp?) order, be with her alone, at any time, and they have no power, are at the complete whim of Michael.

the hell this monster has put terri thru during the last ten years is a TESTAMENT to just how MUCH Terri wants to LIVE! And a TESTAMENT to the determination of these parents to save their daughter--they LOVE her JUST as SHE IS.

Even if MS and his vampire of an attorney cannot stand imperfection.

41 posted on 10/30/2003 11:44:55 AM PST by Republic
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To: lady lawyer
I thought it went to a jury.

It's my understanding that it did and I think that it is borne out by court documents on the net, assuming they are legit. The only way I could be 100% certain is if I got the records from the courthouse myself, and I am not going to do that.

42 posted on 10/30/2003 11:45:14 AM PST by Aliska
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To: FR_addict; dandelion; cyn; floriduh voter; dixiegrrl; Ethan_Allen; atruelady; lonevoice; ...
http://www.sweetliberty.org/bulletins/terri/wolfson.htm
Santos lost the suit due to language in Wolfson's insurance( you ought to read...would be good to make sure your policy is worded this way 8^0) even though witnesses agreed with her account (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...)

Hillsbourough County public records....check them please while they're still here (not feeling well here and need to get off)
http://publicrecord.hillsclerk.com/pls/oridev/off_rec_pack.sbp

http://publicrecord.hillsclerk.com/pls/oridev/off_rec_pack.sbp

http://www.jud6.org/GeneralInfo/AboutTheCircuit/AOC/Newsletters/circuitsspring2001.pdf
page 11..guardian must submit to criminal and credit background checks

guardians are required to file annual reports

the Court will conduct random comprehensive
field audits of a finite number of
guardianships each year to insure the
guardians are acting appropriately and reporting
their activities to the Court accurately.
the Court’s supervision,

Judge Demers profile pg 12

I stopped on page 13, there are some links on law resources which might help provide info to things we haven't yet found....

These are the windows i've had working, have to get off now for a while.

thanks
43 posted on 10/30/2003 11:46:06 AM PST by tutstar
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To: Admin Moderator; jimrob
<3 !

44 posted on 10/30/2003 11:48:08 AM PST by Republic
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To: Republic
I may well have heard that little detail in a Pat Anderson interview. Don't blame her, she's doing a great job but the judge always rules against her.
45 posted on 10/30/2003 11:53:49 AM PST by T'wit (Depart from me, ye cursed, into the everlasting fire... For I was thirsty and ye gave me no drink)
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To: sweetliberty
For Donations to support
American Center for Law and Justice
P.O. Box 64429
Virginia Beach, VA 23467
Phone: (757) 226-2489
Fax: (757) 226-2836

46 posted on 10/30/2003 11:54:14 AM PST by diamond6 ("Everyone who is for abortion HAS been born." Ronald Reagan)
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To: diamond6
Thanks for the info!
47 posted on 10/30/2003 11:55:33 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: T'wit
I hear ya! You must know that I think she is terrific! I need to pray for this woman...who I know has a heart and an intelligence to, in the end of the end, win this most serious of battles.

T'wit--if I had a magic wand, I would wave it and direct Pat to this thread, everysingle day, when she returns home, for the information, support, new ways of looking at old material and friendship. That,in fact, is going to be a part of my prayer.

This is as important a task as anything, imho, accomplished in our years on FR. The implications are tremendous!

48 posted on 10/30/2003 12:02:31 PM PST by Republic
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To: T'wit
Don't blame her, she's doing a great job but the judge always rules against her.

Maybe she's all they can afford, and maybe she is representing them pro bono, but I think they need a more powerful lawyer and spokesperson on their team. There are still many things that could be done on the family's behalf given the resourses and professional expertise. There is too much here for one lone female lawyer who appears to not be in the best of health.

49 posted on 10/30/2003 12:03:13 PM PST by Aliska
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To: lady lawyer; Aliska
This is an excerpt from the last thread link I posted here (post #38):

"Doctors for the Schindlers have testified that those bruises were consistent with manual strangulation. Furthermore, skull x-rays and head CT scans done about a year after her injury indicated fractures to the occipital region which have never been explained. These fractures are consistent with trauma to the head."

Of course, it still doesn't explain why someone hasn't looked into this before now. I guess maybe the courts are too busy trying to overturn elections to worry a great deal about whether one "insignificant" woman lives or dies.

50 posted on 10/30/2003 12:05:38 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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