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Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 8 -10
Various | November 7, 2003 | sweetliberty

Posted on 11/07/2003 7:54:47 PM PST by sweetliberty

TERRI'S FIGHT
(Thread 6 - November 8-10, 2003)
(Link back to thread 5 - Nov. 5-7)

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Contained in Thread 4:

Link to article on Michael Schiavo from hometown newspaper, information on death by starvation and dehydration, information on hospice eligibility and hospice and medicare/medicaid fraud, e-mail address for Judge Greer, transcript of Larry King Live interview with Michael Schiavo and George Felos, Terri's address at the hospice and the address for the foundation, to send cards for Terri's birthday (December 3), transcript of O'Reilly interview with Kate Adamson, e-mail addresses for Florida legislature, transcript of Abrams Report interview with George Felos and Pam Anderson, transcription of Terri's bone scan, legalese for dummies version of Gov. Bush's motion to dismiss Sciavo's suit against the Constitutionality of Terri's Law, link to FatherOfLiberty's research on HBOT (Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy), links to ACLJ involvement in Schiavo case and Father Rob Johansen's daily update.

There are four other relevant posts that I want to highlight here in case anyone missed them or didn't get pinged. These are a general Terri thread troll alert, an especially thoughtful post about the sincere effort that FReepers are making in Terri's behalf, the Father's Love Letter , and remarks made by Jim Robinson on this issue and reposted here by lonevoice.

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Click on pic for Terri's website

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This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

There was a tremendous amount of information posted on the previous thread. For anyone who hasn't been following the daily threads, links to relevant posts and information from the previous thread are contained in the body of the present one. I have found that very helpful in trying to find something later. You people are doing a spectacular job of getting information out and also in helping to keep all of us updated here. What a great joint effort. This fight, to me, illustrates beautifully what Free Republic is about and what it means to be a FReeper. Way to go FRiends. Keep up the good work!

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Latest threads On Terri's Case

Pro-Life Group Questions 'Quality of Life' Premise in Schiavo Case

Judge Lets Parents Challenge Custody of Terri Schiavo

Dean blasts governor over Schiavo case

Husband Must Defend His Guardianship of Terri Schiavo

Judge Bans Terri Schiavo's Parents From Legal Battle

Dean 'Appalled' That Florida Lawmakers Saved Schiavo

A Woman's Life Versus an Inept Press (Nat Hentoff on Terri Schiavo

Terri Schiavo Case: Gov. Bush Asks To Meet New Guardian

Terri Schiavo Case: Creditable Witnesses & the 1st Guardian

Judge Rejects Bush Effort in Schiavo Case

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TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: attorneyfromhell; buttout; daily; euthanasia; florida; forcesofevil; georgefelos; guardianfromhell; hino; merchantsofdeath; michaelschiavo; righttolife; schiavo; schiavothread; schindler; terri; terrischiavo; terrischindler
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: daylate-dollarshort
Your number is coming up and your *ss is going down.
401 posted on 11/08/2003 4:23:10 PM PST by Chocolate Rose
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To: Krodg
To nominate a quote of the day, ping RJayneJ and/or JohnHuang2 to the quote and make the suggestion.
402 posted on 11/08/2003 4:24:40 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
I question whether Michael is being honest when he says the settlement fund has dipped to $50,000. Money invested using Terri's settlement should still be held in a trust fund in her name. I also think it's outrageous that Michael has paid Felos exorbitant legal fees while withholding the rehabilitation that the settlement was specifically inteneded to cover. But, the court ruled that MS could use the funds to pay legal fees so those funds are probably unrecoverable even if it is later proved that MS abused his guardianship of Terri and her settlement money. Of course if it can be proven Felos was kicking back some of those legal fees to MS, that would be a different story. :)



403 posted on 11/08/2003 4:31:06 PM PST by msmagoo
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To: Krodg
Why would a 'big' family like this agree to lend their name and support to a new company with few assests unless it was family related?

I haven't found anything to suggest that Jodi is or was related to the Jergers, but I suppose it's a possibility. However, if Jodi had been a loyal, hard-working employee (giving her the benefit of the doubt, here), it's possible that she asked for their help to get a venture of her own started.

I know personally that this was how my father started his business when he was just getting started. Someone believed in him enough to give him a chance. He had to pay back every penny he borrowed from them, but it worked out.

Anyway, that's just one possible reason. Another could be that they aren't the most ethical people in the business, and they don't care how they make their money. Having seen that the Jergers used to insure mobile homes, their ethics (or lack of them) wouldn't surprise me. To many, the almighty dollar counts much more than a person or a family.

404 posted on 11/08/2003 4:31:08 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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Comment #405 Removed by Moderator

To: Robert A. Cook, PE; All
Yeah good point. We need someone to take the table with the money in it and lay in the court cases.

Also I am very curious about the Trust Fund owing Michael $$. See the Prom Note. I wonder if he is charging mileage every time he goes to visit her etc. It is very interesting that the Prom Note "Terri owes Michael" is from 12/94 and the amount is wierd, $3,535. That is probably how much was paid in payments, however it does not state how much is the amount of the overall note.

Back in 1994 almost all fo the $700,000 should have been in the bank, so this can't be that the trust was low on $$ and borrowed from Michael. Rather it makes more sense that the husband (and I use that word loosly) is acutally billing her for something and she is making payments, ow whatever it is that he billed her for it was a Total of $3,535.

Out of everything this is the wierdest part.

If you calcualte out the number of months for the $55,459.85
for the bank that is just over $600 a month. Could that be how much a Bank Trust Fund Charges to Manage a Trust Account?

To bad we can't get more of this money type information. I hope at the next Guardianship hearing we find out more.




406 posted on 11/08/2003 4:39:03 PM PST by Lone Voice in the hinterlands
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To: Coral Snake; sweetliberty
but he's going to say he can't be because he's been around since: Oct 4, 2002
407 posted on 11/08/2003 4:40:10 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
I was looking at a Florida Physician's liability site. The doctor MS sued, Dr. Igel, paid out 2,000,000 for something that happened on 2/02/1990.
That would have been around the time of Terri's so called accident.
If MS was paid 2,000,000, that still leaves a lot of money unaccounted for.
408 posted on 11/08/2003 4:40:18 PM PST by pickyourpoison
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To: Coral Snake
Someone who registered in July 2003 is still somewhat of a newbie. Watch the personal attacks.
409 posted on 11/08/2003 4:40:33 PM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: pickyourpoison
2,000,000 sorta is what she got. It was 2,000,000 but then it was ruled that Terri was partially culpable for this as well so they deducted her percentage of culpability and also the fact that they thought she would live 17 years. Anyway all this took it down to $700,000 that was the check amount that went in the bank. I think msot agree on this point.
410 posted on 11/08/2003 4:44:39 PM PST by Lone Voice in the hinterlands
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To: Politicalmom
"First time I ever heard "nuclear family" defined as: Husband, wife, husband's mistress, and husband's illegitimate children"

I find that author's ignorance amazing too. It's almost as absurd as the N.H. Supreme Court ruling that gay sex doesn't count as adultery.

When a woman marries, she does not "abandon" her parents - she goes with their blessings. When Michael shacked up with a woman or two or three, producing two or three children out of wedlock, he abandoned his marriage to Terri, and betrayed his wedding vows.

The author is a sick, warped, death cult crackpot. That she was in charge of elder affairs is REALLY scary.

411 posted on 11/08/2003 4:47:23 PM PST by msmagoo
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To: Lone Voice in the hinterlands
That site also says the other doctor, Dr. Prawer, paid out
200,000 within that same time frame.
I'll try to put the link here but I'm not good at link thingie's

http://www.fldfs.com/Data/Liability/byname.asp
412 posted on 11/08/2003 4:56:49 PM PST by pickyourpoison
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To: Admin Moderator
Sorry about the personal attack but trolls just get to me.
especially in this case. From now on I will make my troll alerts less personal like sweetliberty's. However the WT Sherman pic stays. I still think his activities though on a far grander scale fit the personalities in gerneral on the pro death side of the case perfectly. (I think the reason trolls in general get to me so much is that I used to be one on the tech threads until I got the facts about Linux and SCO. In otherwords just as the former smoker is the most rabid anti smoker and the recovering alchoholic may be the most rabid temerence leader maybe former TROLLS become the most rabid ANTI TROLLS. ;c) In fact I have a song coming up about DU trolls, (no screen names involved, just general) soon.)

Guns, Linux and Liberty. ;c)
413 posted on 11/08/2003 4:57:33 PM PST by Coral Snake (deathculture(HospiceOf TheFlorida$uncoast == Andersonville + Aushwitz)
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To: nicmarlo
Another old article in St. Petersburg Times, June 3, 2001

"Under Florida law, Schiavo will inherit his wife's money when she dies. Had he divorced her and let her parents become her guardians, there's a chance he would get nothing and possibly have to give up some of the money he was awarded from the lawsuit."

Another possible indication as to why he doesn't divorce her; he might have to pay back some of the money.

More financial details at above link.

414 posted on 11/08/2003 4:58:09 PM PST by Aliska
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To: lonevoice
Felos would not comment on Capone's statement that, since Terri Schiavo's illness, Michael Schiavo has fathered two children with another woman. Schiavo has acknowledged that he has, for years, been engaged to his current fiancee.

I copied this from the first article that we're all referencing, and guess what! If this "two children with another woman" is true, it not only means the 3rd child (in order it would be the first child), it also means a 4th child (2nd in order), BECAUSE Michael's first child with Jodi was born in Sept. 2002, which would mean that Jodi got pregnant around Dec. 2001 or Jan. 2002. The article was published on May 10, 2001. From the looks of things, Michael has been very busy indeed, trying oh so hard to stay faithful to his wife Terri! < /sarcasm>

415 posted on 11/08/2003 5:00:21 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: Ohioan from Florida
Looks like he's benn busy as a sperm donor.
416 posted on 11/08/2003 5:06:26 PM PST by pickyourpoison
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To: Ohioan from Florida; lonevoice; sweetliberty; Orlando
I noticed that, too. If there were 2 children born as of 2001, then that makes four children as of 2003.

Oct 16, 2002 Felos confirmed that Schiavo and his longtime girlfriend had a baby girl, Olivia, three weeks ago.

417 posted on 11/08/2003 5:08:59 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: All
The FBI? "He received threats and the FBI decided it would be best that he leave his house," Steve remembered.
http://www.nbc10.com/news/2617506/detail.html
418 posted on 11/08/2003 5:09:30 PM PST by Chocolate Rose
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To: nicmarlo
Hhmmmmmmm.........
419 posted on 11/08/2003 5:11:03 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Aliska
From your link:

As his wife's legal guardian, Schiavo is entitled to use the money, but only if it is in her best interests. Schiavo says he is trying to do that by...

murdering her, with the Court's permission. It's all so disgusting.

420 posted on 11/08/2003 5:11:26 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: sweetliberty
MS must be paying child support on two children, while he's raising two others. So now he has four illegitimate children. There should be some way of finding out this information, not to expose the children, but to determine if this is the case, yet another motivation for MS to murder his wife.
421 posted on 11/08/2003 5:14:08 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
Another old article from the usenet archives (don't have a link):

Saving Terri's Life: What's Wrong with the "Right to Die" > by Rus Cooper Dowda

> > In 1990, Terri Schiavo's heart suddenly stopped. Before she could be > revived, her brain was damaged and she slipped into a comalike state. In > early October, the latest hearing began to determine the 38-year-old woman's > fate.

> > New Treatment is "Pointless"

> > Her parents and their doctors say Terri is responsive and deserves to live. > Her husband, who has just had a daughter by the woman to which he is now > engaged, wants Terri to die.

> > Terri received a $700,000 malpractice award in the early 1990s (doctors > hadn't done enough to diagnose the potassium deficiency that led to her > heart attack); husband Michael has been paying his legal fees out of it in > his fight to end her life. If she dies, as her husband (he has never filed > for divorce) he will receive whatever funds are left.

> > Michael Schiavo says Terri is brain dead. He wants to remove her feeding > tube and end her life. Her parents maintain that their daughter smiles, > turns her head, vocalizes and tracks with her eyes. They say she would > improve with treatment.

> > To date, the husband has refused to OK antibiotics or dental work - "Her > teeth are fine; she doesn't eat," he has said. She has not had physical, > occupational, recreational or speech therapy for years. She has not had a > mammogram or pap smear for four years. When a complete physical was ordered > for her in preparation for the current hearing, a urinary tract infection > was discovered.

> > The major issue involved in this round of the fight for her life is what is > meant by "new" treatment. The hubby says it means untried, pointless care. > The parents say they want the kind of care she hasn't gotten yet.

> > The husband's doctors maintain that she does not feel pain, yet have > prescribed pain medication for her - to make the nurses feel better, they > say. Terri's moaning and crying is only primitive brain stem activity, it's > said.

> > When she smiles at her mother coming in the room, it's just primitive stem > cell activity, say the doctors hired by Michael.

> > I attended the hearing in Clearwater, Florida to determine whether Terri > Schiavo should have her feeding tube removed. She is stable. She is not > terminally ill.

> > The hardest part of that first day was watching videos of Terri. "That could > have been me," I thought.

> > On one of the videos, a doctor asks Terri to open her eyes as widely as she > can. While she was doing this on tape, I looked around the courtroom. > Everybody in the courtroom was doing the same widening action ...including > the husband, his attorney, the sheriffs and the judge himself.

> > In the videotape of Terri, she is responding to doctors and family. > Sometimes she is responding to music. Frequently she can be seen clearly > responding to spoken requests to move parts of her body.

> > A snip of the tape was shown on Tampa's ABC-TV affiliate: At its end, the > news anchor said, "I guess it seems a matter of semantics, but it doesn't > look like a coma."

> > Cheap Sensationalism?

> > Throughout the hearing, Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, has been > trying to get doctors to agree that Terri is not "with it" enough to be > allowed to continue her life. One of the doctors seemed to consider message > boards a rare thing, and claimed to have never heard of the most famous > computerized message board user of all - Stephen Hawking. While examining > Terri's videotaped interaction with her mother, he had to be asked twice to > please look at his monitor, and to put his glasses back on so he could see > his screen clearly.

> > And Ronald Cranford, a Minnesota neurologist known for his involvement in > so-called "right-to-die" cases, seemed content to testify about the tapes > without having viewed them.

> > Watching his own videotaped exam of Terri, I heard him first declare the > woman could not hear him, and then giving her a series of very fast verbal > commands. I've had neurological exams myself, but have never experienced one > as physically brutal as the one I watched Terri received on Cranford's > videotape. He clumsily poked, prodded, thumped, shoved and pinched her - she > DID seem to pull away when he approached her, he testified. He thunked her > hard between the eyebrows. She moaned. That was not a pain response, > Cranford told the court.

> > On viewing a large photo of Terri and her mother joyously greeting, Cranford > maintained Terri could not be recognizing her mother. It was only an > "involuntary subcortical response," he said. The photo was "cheap > sensationalism," he insisted.

> > Should the court base its decision as to whether Terri lives or dies on a > nose count, asked Ms. Pat Anderson, attorney for Terri's parents, in her > closing argument. No; credibility of the medical experts who'd testified was > the key, she said.

> > Intellectual Disconnection

> > Yet none of those saying Terri should die had any patients like Terri, she > told the court, nor did they - by their own testimony - keep up on advances > in rehabilitation. Anderson reminded the court that Terri's current > attending physician has for years spent only spent ten minutes with her > every four months.

> > What about the "untried" therapies for Terri? Much of the therapy Terri's > parents want for her, Anderson said, has been standard therapy for a good > while - but somehow never for Terri.

> > The experts speaking against Terri, she said, practiced an "intellectual > disconnection" that filtered Terri's humanity through the sieve of what > people with such disabilities are not expected to be able to do. "Is it fair > or equitable to keep saying that we are not going to help you because 'you > have brain damage'?" she asked the court.

> > "Terri has shown us her spirit and tried as hard as she can under the > circumstances to say, 'I'M STILL HERE!'

> > After the hearing, I reflected. Those videotapes of Terri interacting with > her environment had been both good and sad to see. Physicians who current > treat people with disabilities like Terri - and everyone else in the > courtroom - can clearly see her voluntary responses - to balloons, pain and > humor. If you are fortunate enough to have a loving relationship with your > mother, then it is very easy to see the love that passes between mother and > adult child when Terri's mother enters the room.

> > The other side says that what we are seeing is merely an uncontrolled brain > stem reflex - that just coincidentally happens every time she sees her > mother.

> > Terri has never been given standard speech and communication therapy to > enable her to tell us what she thinks. Because of that, she has lost the > speech she is said to have had even after her injury. Now that same lack of > therapy is being used against her.

> > The judge will wait until Thanksgiving to announce whether Terri lives or > dies.

> > (Editor's Note: Judge George Greer of the 6th Judicial Circuit Court in > Clearwater, Fla., has just ruled that Terri "has no hope of recovery" and > that her feeding tube should therefore be removed on January 3. Attorneys > for Terri's parents plan to file a notice of appeal and a motion for a stay > of Greer's ruling pending the appeal.) > > Rus Cooper-Dowda is a minister and freelance writer in St. Petersburg, > Florida.

422 posted on 11/08/2003 5:20:51 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Aliska
Aliska,
Such a good article I'll re-post the whole thing here instead of the link.


Fund for Schiavo's medical care dwindles
By ANITA KUMAR and J. NEALY-BROWN

© St. Petersburg Times,
published June 3, 2001





Throughout the long, messy battle over whether Terri Schiavo should be kept alive, her husband and parents have accused each other of wanting to control her fate to get their hands on her hundreds of thousands of dollars.

But by the time the bitter feud finally ends, there might not be any left.

The $700,000 or so earmarked for Mrs. Schiavo's medical care for the rest of her life has dwindled to about $350,000, court records show. Most was spent in the past two years on the intense legal fight that made its way to the U.S. Supreme Court and is still not over.

The money, which came from a 1992 medical malpractice case, has been used for Mrs. Schiavo's medical bills; her husband's attorney, who is fighting to remove her feeding tube; and a bank that manages the money.

Records show that George Felos, Michael Schiavo's litigation attorney, has been paid more than $200,000 since 1997. Another Schiavo attorney, Deborah Bushnell, got $27,000. Schiavo himself was reimbursed almost $6,000 for legal costs.

Other expenses include private aides, security guards hired after the publicity led to a ruckus outside Mrs. Schiavo's nursing home and a lawyer appointed by a judge to represent Mrs. Schiavo in court.

"One of the problems when people fight is that the people who make out the best are the lawyers," Sarasota financial planner Margery Schiller said.

As his wife's legal guardian, Schiavo is entitled to use the money, but only if it is in her best interests. Schiavo says he is trying to do that by following her wishes not to be kept alive after lapsing into a persistent vegetative state 11 years ago.

"This suit was brought on her behalf to implement her wishes," Felos said.

Attorneys for Mrs. Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, say they are appalled that Michael Schiavo is able to spend her money to end her life.

"This is outrageous. It's offensive," said Pat Anderson, one of the couple's attorneys. "It's not being used for the purpose in which it was given."

Pam Campbell, another of the Schindlers' attorneys, cites an attorney general's opinion from 1996 stating that a guardian's attorney paid from an account such as Mrs. Schiavo's "owes a duty of care to (the incapacitated person) as well as the guardian."

Anderson, who said she is working for almost nothing, plans to ask a judge to stop allowing Schiavo to pay Felos with Mrs. Schiavo's money, or at least tell the Schindlers' attorneys when he does.

The Schindlers, who tried unsuccessfully to remove Schiavo as guardian, do not have access to the money and say they have been denied a fair opportunity to represent themselves because they cannot afford the experts and doctors Schiavo can.

Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George Greer already must approve each expense paid from the account. The judge also agreed last year to seal the requests for payment from public view, at Felos' request. The approvals, however, are public record.

Last year, the clerk of court's office, which processes those requests, questioned whether Felos should receive money for speaking to the media for hours. The judge did not stop the payments to Felos, who receives $195 an hour and $225 an hour for appellate work.

Mrs. Schiavo collapsed at her St. Petersburg home Feb. 25, 1990, from a lack of potassium. Her heart stopped, and she was deprived of oxygen for five minutes. She has been incapacitated since.

Schiavo and the Schindlers, once so close they lived together, have been feuding over Mrs. Schiavo's care since the malpractice money was awarded. The once-private disagreement erupted into a controversial case that made national headlines.

Schiavo succeeded in getting a judge to allow him to remove his wife's feeding tube. But the Schindlers got another judge to start feeding her again.

The 2nd District Court of Appeal will once again take up the case June 25.

A Pinellas jury awarded about $1.4-million to Mrs. Schiavo and $630,000 to her husband in 1992 after her gynecologist failed to ask about her medical history while treating her. She also received a $250,000 settlement in a case filed on her behalf against another doctor. Felos said that after attorneys' fees and other expenses, Mrs. Schiavo was left with about $700,000 and her husband with about $300,000.

In April 1993, Mrs. Schiavo's money was valued at $776,254, court records show. By April 1998, it was only down to $713,825.

The money, managed first by Barnett Bank and now SouthTrust Bank, was invested in blue chip stocks, such as Coca-Cola, Walt Disney and Proctor & Gamble; corporate and U.S. Treasury bonds; and a money market account.

Schiller, the financial planner, said a portfolio such as that could have earned $70,000 or more a year in the mid and late 1990s, when the stock market was booming. "It's not unrealistic," Schiller said. "It was the best performance in decades."

Those kinds of returns could have paid for Mrs. Schiavo's expenses. Her medical expenses were paid for by health insurance and Medicaid at first but now are paid by the account. It costs about $3,000 to $5,000 a month to live in a nursing home.

Schiller said it's likely Mrs. Schiavo's money has taken a small dip because of the stock market's recent woes, but most of the money appears to have been spent on legal fees.

Schiavo, a Clearwater respiratory therapist, lives with a woman to whom he had been engaged for five years, but his marriage still puts him in a favorable financial position.

Under Florida law, Schiavo will inherit his wife's money when she dies. Had he divorced her and let her parents become her guardians, there's a chance he would get nothing and possibly have to give up some of the money he was awarded from the lawsuit.

Jane Grossman, a St. Petersburg family lawyer, said a court determines what is a marital asset during a divorce. Money awarded to a spouse for past damages or expenses is considered a marital asset because those things happened during the marriage. That money can be divided.

But compensation for future loss of earning capacity and future medical expenses belongs solely to the injured spouse, according to a 1998 2nd District Court of Appeal ruling.

In this case, Schiavo is both Mrs. Schiavo's husband and guardian and gets the money either way.
423 posted on 11/08/2003 5:22:07 PM PST by Lone Voice in the hinterlands
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To: nicmarlo
MS must be paying child support on two children, while he's raising two others.


he needs money alright.....
424 posted on 11/08/2003 5:22:21 PM PST by tutstar
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To: msmagoo
>> But, the court ruled that MS could use the funds to pay legal fees

And who do we suppose filed the motion to do this and argued it in court? Would it perhaps be the very lawyer who billed for $380,000 of Terri's rehab money?

425 posted on 11/08/2003 5:23:50 PM PST by T'wit
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To: sweetliberty
I would advide you to keep your Troll alerts GENERAL and not personal. I've already got one of mine pulled by the AM as a personal attack because I blew up at the particular troll operating here today.
As for the case I really think that the jig is up for Michael and Felos. Even if they do kill Terri there is so much information about the case floating around in the "wild" now thanks to us FReepers that it may only lead to a murder trial for them.
426 posted on 11/08/2003 5:24:57 PM PST by Coral Snake (deathculture(HospiceOf TheFlorida$uncoast == Andersonville + Aushwitz)
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To: tutstar
I would imagine so.
427 posted on 11/08/2003 5:25:41 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: mickie; sweetliberty; All
Thanks, mickie, for letting us know about this article! The Catholic Standard and Times interviewed the Schindlers just after the dehydration ordeal and features Terri's Wood High School graduation picture.



This Round to Terri, But Fight Not Over

By Susan Brinkmann
CS&T Correspondent

"They're calling her the 'Iron Lady,'" said Mary Schindler said about her daughter, Terri Schindler-Schiavo, who narrowly escaped death last week when the Florida legislature voted to overturn a court order to withdraw the woman's feeding tube. "It's unbelievable how well she did throughout the ordeal," Mrs. Schindler said.

"Even the doctors were amazed at how hydrated she stayed. Her skin was so good. I honesty believe it was all the prayers. The people outside the hospice came from all over the country. They stayed here night and day." One could hear a remnant of the acute anxiety this mother must have felt during those six days when her helpless daughter was slowly starving to death.

"I'm just glad they're feeding her again," Mrs. Schindler said often during the conversation. "She looks good. Her face is filling out. I just hope she's okay." Thus far there seems to be no lasting damage from the forced starvation Terri endured for more than a week, but the family's battle for her life is far from over. "The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) jumped in on the other side over the weekend. This is not over by a long shot," Mrs. Schindler said.

"We need an investigation. There's just so much that we don't have answers for. We still don't know why Terri passed out that night. She didn't have a heart attack. Two doctors have said that -- one of ours and one of theirs. There's a reason why she passed out, and we've got to find out."

This is only one of many questions that have never been answered in this case.

Why did Michael Schiavo keep his wife's medical records sealed for 10 years? Why did he refuse to allow her even the most minor rehabilitation, even though he won tens of thousands of dollars in a medical malpractice lawsuit that was supposed to be used for exactly this purpose?

These suspicions were only reinforced during the six-day long starvation, when Michael Schiavo ordered his wife's body cremated immediately after her death and denied the family access to their dying daughter.

He even refused to allow a priest to give her the last rites. Such cold-hearted behavior has not endeared him to the American public and forced him to make an appearance on CNN's Larry King Live to help bolster his image.

During the interview, Schiavo repeatedly accused the Schindlers of wanting money and that by pulling his wife's feeding tube, he was only following her wishes, something that he admits no one can prove because she left no living will.

CNN ran the video of Terri interacting with her mother several times during the show and even Larry King appeared less than convinced that she was in a persistent vegetative state.

Schiavo and his attorney, George Felos, insisted the tape was four hours long and was edited to show only those moments when Terri appeared to respond. However, the credibility of this argument was completely destroyed when Larry King offered to independently videotape Terri and was turned down flat.

Felos, a right-to-die, activist who has handled almost a dozen euthanasia cases in the last 10 years, proceeded to read from the reports of several doctors who believed Terri was in a vegetative state.

What he never told the viewing public was that there is an equally long list of notable doctors who disagree with the diagnosis that Terri is in a persistent vegetative state.

In fact, the medical profession itself admits this state is commonly misdiagnosed.

In a study published in the June 1991 Archives of Neurology, it was found that of 84 patients with a firm diagnosis of PVS, 58 percent recovered consciousness within three years.

Some patients who recovered said they were aware and emotionally responsive to everything going on around them, even though they were unable to communicate.

Several doctors appeared with the Schindler family in an Oct. 24 press conference, one of whom, Dr. William Hammesfahr, is a nationally recognized expert on PVS and a Nobel prize nominee.

He said that Terri's eyes were clearly able to fixate on her family and that she tried to follow simple voice commands from her parents. "She looks at you, she can follow commands," Hammesfahr said during the press conference. "This is a case about a judicial system making an error."

Felos and Schiavo have paid little or no attention to any facts that are unsupportive of their position and have remained determined to end Terri's life.

In fact, when the Florida state legislature issued the Oct. 21 order to reinsert Terri's feeding tube, the first thing Schiavo and Felos did was file a motion with Circuit Court Judge George Greer to ask for an injunction to overturn the order.

Greer refused on technical grounds, and Felos refiled with State Circuit Judge W. Douglas Baird, who also refused it.

Felos now has five days to file additional arguments in a revised petition to overturn the order.

These last-minute efforts to halt the feeding caused confusion at Woodside Hospice, where Terri was staying. An executive order from the governor's office was received by both fax and official delivery, yet hospice workers claimed there was no medical staff available to reinsert the tube.

Terri was then rushed by ambulance to Morton Plant Hospital in Clearwater, where the medical staff again refused to comply, but this time they made their reasons known — because they had been threatened with litigation by Michael Schiavo's attorneys if any medical care was given to Terri.

The hospital had to be repeatedly told that they must either comply with the governor's order or risk losing their funding. At 9:30 p.m., approximately four hours after the order was issued, Terri Schiavo began to be rehydrated. Michael Schiavo at first refused visitation to Terri's family, not allowing them to see her until the following day. By then, he had clandestinely removed her from the hospital and returned her to the hospice.

This occurred only hours after the Schindlers' attorney, Pat Anderson, expressed fears that Michael would remove Terri from the hospital before her condition was medically stabilized, something he has done in the past.

Anderson was not surprised when she heard he had done exactly that. "She should be in intensive care at the hospital," Anderson told LifeSite news, "but the fact is, Michael's her guardian, and if he withdraws his consent for them to treat her, there's nothing they can do. Their hands are tied. This tells you a lot about him."

She pointed out that it was precisely this kind of behavior that makes the appointment of a new legal guardian so crucial. "We've got to have a guardian ad litem to put a stop to that kind of high jinks because [Michael's] primary objective is to kill her."

"Terri's Bill," the legislation passed by the Florida legislature, included instructions for the court to appoint a guardian ad litem for Terri who would oversee legal matters in the case. The appointment has to be acceptable to both Schiavo and the Schindlers. Thus far, the two sides have not agreed, which allows the court to appoint its choice, Dr. Jay Wolfson, a professor of health and law at Stetson University in St. Petersburg, Fla.

The Schindlers oppose him because he has already made his opinions known about the Terri Schiavo case.

Her medical care, however, remains in the hands of Michael Schiavo, a man who has consistently denied her rehabilitation for 13 years.

October 23, 2003
Catholic Standard & Times

428 posted on 11/08/2003 5:26:38 PM PST by msmagoo
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To: Lone Voice in the hinterlands
CNN reported that Hospice had paid Terri's bill for the three years she was there. After she returned from her brief hospital stay for rehydration, the Attorney from Hell announced that she had just been placed on Medicaid. It's anybody's guess, then, just who paid the bill for the three years.
429 posted on 11/08/2003 5:32:55 PM PST by Pegita ('Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus, just to take Him at His Word ...)
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To: Coral Snake
Trolls are believed to be morally dead. They can neither see nor hear nor feel any moral responsibility. They are utterly unable to experience either compassion or repentance.

Still, it is best not to flame them because we should always err on the side of caution. Once or twice a century, one of them might wake up and see the light.

430 posted on 11/08/2003 5:37:32 PM PST by T'wit
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To: All
Followup to my #422. I thought Rus Cooper-Dowda was a he, but may be a she. She writes in another old post in the archives (February 24, 2003):

"Rev. Rus Cooper-Dowda, a minister, journalist, and free-lance writer in the St. Petersburg area, takes this case personally as well as politically.

"In 1985, my situation was much like Terri's. The hospital staff and my (ex) husband had written me off as being as good as dead, as someone who would never regain any kind of 'meaningful' function. Since then, I've earned a Master's degree and had a son. Having a son would have surprised them, too, since those same physicians had earlier pronounced me sterile."

431 posted on 11/08/2003 5:41:04 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Aliska; sweetliberty
Don't know if you saw this, but I'll post a partial clip here:

CNN TALKBACK LIVE

Ending Life Support: Who Decides?
Aired May 30, 2001 - 15:00 ET

JEFF ECKERT, ATTORNEY FOR SCHINDLER FAMILY: Well, I need to say something about what Mr. Felos said. First of all, she's not on artificial life support. She's not comatose. She's not TVS (ph). She's alert, cognitive and responds to those she knows and cares about.

He talks about going to trial. She had no attorney to represent her. He says these allegations that have come forward after and since we've gotten in this case in the last month, they're not allegations. They're sworn testimony found in the court file. He says they took depositions and disputed that. They took one deposition. The deposition of the witness supported our position that there was no such discussion between Michael Schiavo and his client, and he has not taken depositions as though there are more than one. She is on no tubes, not feeding. She is not artificial.

The court had nobody to dispute her situation with respect to an attorney to cross-examine him. And the appellate court relied upon the record as it was. It's always his mantra, Mr. Schiavo's and Mr. Felos', to carry out Terri's wishes. That's baloney. His client and he want to say to Michael Schiavo and discuss -- Michael Schiavo and Terri discuss starving his client to death or dehydrating her into convulsions. That's preposterous.

432 posted on 11/08/2003 5:47:37 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Pegita; mickie; All
Don't miss this article in the latest issue of CS&T!

Michael was under the care of a psychiatrist and attacked Suzanne, Terri's sister at one point.

Schindlers Wonder What Happened the Night Terri Collapsed

“Everything goes back to that night,” said Bob Schindler, the father of the 39-year-old Archbishop Wood graduate, Terri Schindler-Schiavo, who suffered a severe brain injury in her Florida home in late February 1990.

Her husband, Michael, made an hour-long appearance on Larry King Live on Monday, Oct. 27, giving his side of a very controversial story why he has been trying to have his wife’s feeding tube removed.

Michael Schiavo told Larry King it all began in the middle of the night of Feb. 25, 1990, when he heard a loud thud in the hall and found Terri lying unconscious. Schiavo claimed that he called Terri’s brother Bobby, who lived in the same apartment complex, who told him to call 911. When Bobby arrived, Michael claimed that he was holding Terri in his arms.

“That’s what he said, but that’s not true,” Bob Schindler said. “Michael called me and said he couldn’t wake her up. I told Michael to call 911 right away, and then I called Bobby, my son, and told him to get over there right away to see what was going on. He was the one who was there before the rescue squad came in.

“Bobby said he found Terri laying face down in the hallway with her hands clutched to her throat and her breathing was gurgling. Michael was sitting on the couch and was frantic.”

Several times during the show, Schiavo told Larry King that Bob Schindler tried to get money from him. According to Schindler, the money he wanted was what Schiavo promised to pay for his daughter’s continued therapy.

According to printed reports, when the Schindler family learned of an experimental procedure in California that involved stimulating the brain with electrodes, they raised the necessary money and flew Terri out.

Although it was unsuccessful, they were united in their determination to explore every possible treatment.

“It was a government grant of some kind,” Schindler said, “and part of the deal was that she was to have therapy after the operation.”

Her therapy was to continue at the Shands Medical Center at the University of Florida in Gainesville.

In 1991, when Terri returned to Florida, she had progressed enough to be able to speak. Her medical records indicate that she was able to say things like “stop that” and other words. In spite of the progress, Schiavo wanted to wait until after he received the award money from his pending malpractice suit.

“He promised that once the malpractice money came in, he would get her the therapy. That’s what he was pleading in front of the malpractice jury, that he needed all this money to take care of her. They awarded him the money and we were all ecstatic because Terri could continue the therapy.

In 1992 Schiavo won a malpractice suit against Terri’s gynecologist for failing to administer tests that might have detected her potassium imbalance. Combined with another medical suit settlement, $700,000 was deposited into a trust fund for Terri, and $300,000 for Michael. As Terri’s guardian, Michael was the only one that had access to the money.

“At first, Schiavo kind of avoided us, and every time I did have an opportunity to see him or talk to him, I would ask when he was going to get her into the rehab program. He’d always say, ‘We’ll talk about it later.’

“When I finally confronted him, I said, ‘OK, we’re going to talk about it right now, not later.’ I said ‘You made a commitment to Terri and our family that you were going to get Terri this state-of-the art therapy. Now, when are you going to do that?’

“That’s when he went insane. He started screaming, ‘I’m her husband! I make all the decisions! You have nothing to say.’ There were some books in the room and he started throwing them against the wall. Then he charged after me, but my wife jumped in between us. He ran out of the room and said, ‘You’ll never see Terri again. I’ll never permit you to see her again. I’m calling my attorney.’ That’s the last time we really had any conversation with Michael.

“Michael gets violent. He tried to attack Suzanne (Terri’s sister) prior to this incident. He went after our Suzanne the same way he came after me,” Schindler said, but he jumped in between. “Michael was seeing a psychiatrist named Dr. Caplan at the time and I called up the doctor and explained what happened. The doctor said, ‘The next time he does that, call the police immediately. He can be dangerous.’ ... He has a violent temper.”

This behavior corroborates the story of Terri’s brother, Bobby, and friend, Jackie Rhoades. They claimed that on the day of Terri’s collapse, she and Michael fought so badly that they both feared for her safety.

Schiavo vehemently denied these claims on Larry King and said there was no evidence of injuries to support Schindler’s allegations that he tried to strangle Terri that night.

“No, they didn’t find marks,” Schindler said. “They found bruises. That’s in her medical records, which we didn’t see for 10 years. One of our doctors told the court about the injury during the 2000 trial. Schiavo’s court appointed doctor also admitted that a neck problem showed up on her medical records.”

Terri also had a broken femur on the night of her admission to the hospital and bone scans were done in the early days of Terri’s therapy, according to Schindler.

“That’s when they found all these fractures,” he said. “The radiologist said the screen ‘just lit up’ from all the injuries. A neurological radiologist looked at the bone scan. ‘Somebody worked her over good’ is how he put it.”

According to the Schindlers, it seems deliberate that the courts have overlooked so much evidence. For instance, the courts continue to maintain that Terri is in a persistent vegetative state based on a report by Schiavo’s chief medical witness, Dr. Ronald Cranford, who only saw Terri for about 45 minutes. Dr. Hammesfahr, a well-known neurologist, spent more than four and a half hours with Terri and believes she is not in a persistent vegetative state.

George Felos, Schiavo’s attorney, petitioned the court to have Richard Pierce, a former court-appointed guardian ad litem replaced, and it was allowed.

This weekend the court appointed a new guardian at litem, Dr. Jay Wolfson, a professor of health and law at Stetson University. “He’s opposed to Governor Bush’s action and has said so openly in the newspapers,” Schindler said. “That should be enough to disqualify him, but it hasn’t, and this frightens me.”

Schiavo repeatedly insisted on Larry King that he loves Terri and wants to respect her wishes not to be kept alive by artificial means. He claimed two other people could corroborate this evidence. What he didn’t say was that those two people happened to be his own brother and sister-in-law.

“Felos brought in the brother and sister-in-law at the very last minute, within a week or two of the trial,” Schindler said. “We never had an opportunity to do a deposition on them. Felos blindsided us.”

In spite of Governor Bush’s heroic actions, the battle to save Terri’s life is far from over. “It’s very possible that Terri’s Bill will be overturned,” Schindler admits. “It’s just a temporary thing in the eyes of our attorney. If it doesn’t hold up, we’re back where we started from.”

But they haven’t given up hope. “She’s still tired and weak from the ordeal,” Schindler said after seeing his daughter on Sunday, Nov. 2. “She hasn’t recovered yet. I was teasing her today, like I always do, threatening to kiss her, and she was coming back at me. She doesn’t use her vocal chords, but she was giving me a ‘get out of my face’ kind of thing. There’s so much life in her. It’s just a matter of getting her proper therapy.”

November 6, 2003
Catholic Standard and Times

433 posted on 11/08/2003 5:48:28 PM PST by msmagoo
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To: nicmarlo; Ethan_Allen; pc93; Graymatter; FL_engineer; nickcarraway
The more I think about it, the more I think that this is the angle we need to be investigating. If it could be proven that the HINO was fooling around before any of these three women came along, and especially if he was fooling around BEFORE Terri's "injury," it could be very significant, but we have to have this well-documented. So here's what we have so far:

I'm still inclined to think that some of this information is buried in Pennsylvania (an old high school girlfriend or something)? Someone also suggested awhile back that THAT may have been what prompted the move to Florida and NOT Terri's parents moving there as is generally supposed. It is pure speculation at this point, mind you, but certainly worth looking into in greater depth.

Pinging a few more diligent researchers on this. (I'm sure I missed a few).

434 posted on 11/08/2003 5:58:17 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
Another old article by Rus Cooper-Dowda with a picture of Terri I hadn't seen before here

See also Becki Snow's blogspot here (more about alleged hospice conflict of interest, details)

Some of the links just above no longer work.

435 posted on 11/08/2003 5:58:28 PM PST by Aliska
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To: T'wit; Coral Snake
Yeah, the flaming doesn't help. I understand it's hard, I ran into one that was a real coward, and it got me mad. But the thing is, even if they could become human at some point, it won't be by yelling at them.
There is something wrong, that they can't feel. Yelling won't shake them into humanity.
And truthfully, any stupid ill informed arguements that they come up with at this hour don't have much effect. Either people have a heart, or they are acting out. Not much gray area left at this point in the Terri case.

Speaking of which, I had the unfortunate chance of hearing Phil Hendrie's really strange rant about terri a couple of days ago. I like his comedy, and he is on after Savage here in SF.
Wow, what a mess that was. I think he shot himself in the foot, because it didn't compele me to tune in anymore. It was cringe radio....not very good for him.
436 posted on 11/08/2003 6:01:01 PM PST by sfRummygirl (SAVE TERRI SHINDLER SCHIAVO...www.terrisfight.org)
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To: sweetliberty
Very, very good post, sweetliberty.

I have tried, throughout the day, to figure out how to get court documents/info. from PA....I cannot. There's nothing I can find (like I did for FL). I had the same similar problem in getting any Court records/info., and obits/marriages/deaths for my geneology project---in that case, I'd have to go the PA Historical Society....I'm not sure what else to do as far as researching obits or other info out of PA.

437 posted on 11/08/2003 6:02:18 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Aliska
Ha! She showed 'em, huh?
438 posted on 11/08/2003 6:02:38 PM PST by sfRummygirl (SAVE TERRI SHINDLER SCHIAVO...www.terrisfight.org)
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To: All
The Promisory Note that terri Owes Michael is still bothering me. There was plenty of money in the trust Account to Pay. Why would there be a Prom Note essentiall form Terri to Michael? We don't know how much is the overall face amount of the Prom Note we only know that on the Prom Note $3,500 ws paid out, we don't know the balance.

Say the Prom note ("Terri owes Michael")is for a couple Hunderd Thousand Dollars, that would explain why Michael is saying that there is 50,000 is less balance in the Trust Fund.

The only thing I can think of is that Michael is billing Terri for something that he is not 100% positive that he should get. He has filed a Promisorry note from Terri to himself in order to protect his weak claim. If it was not a weak claim he never would have taken a Prom Note he jsut would have written Himself a check form her Trust Account.

Of course there is a bank running the Trust so perhaps he doesn't have free reign. Perhaps the Trust Officer turned his money request down and only said that his request for $ was worth, $3,535 and so he didnt' agree so he took that $3,535 and then executed a Prom Note to make a record of the rest of the money that he feels is due to him.

Anybody else care to speculate?
439 posted on 11/08/2003 6:04:21 PM PST by Lone Voice in the hinterlands
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To: msmagoo
Oh, this is interesting....'ol Mike was seeing a shrink for this? Oh, honey, he is Mudd.
440 posted on 11/08/2003 6:05:05 PM PST by sfRummygirl (SAVE TERRI SHINDLER SCHIAVO...www.terrisfight.org)
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To: msmagoo
Is that Terri? It looks like her....like the picture at the top of this thread. Thanks for posting that article. We need as much as we can gather on that dirtbag HINO.


441 posted on 11/08/2003 6:05:37 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Ohioan from Florida
I haven't found anything to suggest that Jodi is or was related to the Jergers, but I suppose it's a possibility. However, if Jodi had been a loyal, hard-working employee (giving her the benefit of the doubt, here), it's possible that she asked for their help to get a venture of her own started.

Yes, there is that possibilty. I still find it hard to believe that they would allow their name to be used in the company title and serve as directors. It is one thing to give support to an employee starting one their own..and another thing to actually be a part of the company...

442 posted on 11/08/2003 6:08:54 PM PST by Krodg
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To: Lone Voice in the hinterlands
I have to say, this is very confusing. I never even looked at this specific angle before, with the note and all.
443 posted on 11/08/2003 6:09:41 PM PST by sfRummygirl (SAVE TERRI SHINDLER SCHIAVO...www.terrisfight.org)
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To: sfRummygirl
And she had a fractured femur the night she was admitted to the hospital!

MS should be prosecuted for what he's done to her. This is the first I've heard of a Dr. Caplan, too.

MS is dangerous.

Now wonder he kept Terri's medical records sealed for 10 years. Just long enough for the statute of limitations for domestic violence to expire. We'll see about that, though, when Connors gets hold of those records. :)

444 posted on 11/08/2003 6:14:35 PM PST by msmagoo
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To: sweetliberty
Yes, back when MS was trying to convince the court he would care for her forever...around the same time, though not the same outfit as the picture at the top of the thread.
445 posted on 11/08/2003 6:16:58 PM PST by msmagoo
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To: Krodg
starting one = starting on
446 posted on 11/08/2003 6:17:03 PM PST by Krodg
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To: msmagoo
That's what I thought.
447 posted on 11/08/2003 6:20:14 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: msmagoo
I was wondering about this and wasn't sure how that works.

Will Team Bush have full access to all the medical and court records or do they have to accept the previous rulings by Judge Greer as fact?
448 posted on 11/08/2003 6:20:42 PM PST by wisconsinconservative (Christian, Conservative.......and proud of it)
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To: sfRummygirl; All
A Recording of some of the money paid out from Terri's Trust Account can be found in Post #379.

Rember the article above, she should have had this money invested and it ws more than $700,000. That news article about the $$ ws a good article.

Now I really ahve to go. I have a busy day tomorrow but no doubt I'll check over here. I can't wait for the Medical records to be unsealed and also the $$ records. The new Guaridan Hearing can't come soon enough for me. I'll be calling Florida again on Monday to see if I can find out when the next hearing is scheduled for. If anyone finds out befroe I do please post the informaiton here.

You know this almost seems like fiction, like a fictional Crime Story, reality is indeed stranger than fiction...
449 posted on 11/08/2003 6:21:00 PM PST by Lone Voice in the hinterlands
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To: Lone Voice in the hinterlands
Wouldn't the promissory note mean Michael owes Terri? i.e., the trust fund lent him money, and the note represents his promise to pay?

450 posted on 11/08/2003 6:22:29 PM PST by RusynMama
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