Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 14-18

country => county

One thing that might really make sense for the Schindlers, is to get a male attorney. Pat can go ahead and prepare the case, but it should be a fellow, one who has more manly presence than Felos (which is hardly a challenge at all). If Greer has it in for women, having Pat there arguing to him day in and day out is only steeling his resolve all the harder.

The troll is gone. It worked!

JACKIE RHODES TESTIMONY
TRIAL OF 1/26/2000

Speaker Testimony Page Line
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY PAMELA CAMPBELL
Campbell Good morning. 799 24
Jackie Good morning. 799 25
Campbell Please state your full name. 800 1
Jackie Jacquelyn Rhodes, but you may call me Jackie. 800 2
Campbell Where are you from? 800 4
Jackie Akron, Ohio 800 5
Campbell Did you fly here for the trial just? 800 6
Jackie No. I have friends. I was visiting friends. 800 7
Campbell What is your occupation? 800 9
Jackie I am a management assistant for Prudential Insurance 800 10
Campbell How long have you been with Prudential? 800 12
Jackie Since April of 1985. 800 13
Campbell Was tehre eer a time you worked for Prudential in Florida? 800 14
Jackie Yes. I worked in Florida from May of 1988 until December of 1996. 800 16
Campbell How do you know Theresa Schiavo? 800 18
Jackie Theresa and I worked together at St. Pete Prudential Insurance office. 800 19
Campbell When did you meet Terri? 800 21
Jackie In May of ‘88. 800 22
Campbell Was Terri already working there? 800 23
Jackie Yes. 800 24
Campbell Describe what you did for Prudential. 800 25
Jackie At the time I transferred to the St. Petersburg, Florida opffice, I worked at the public counter assisting the clients coming into the office to make premium payments or beneficiary changes. Any type of service work. And I did other functions in the office. 801 1
Campbell What did Terri do for Prudential? 801 7
Jackie Terri sat right beside me at tha time. She also waited on the clients that came into the office and she had other responsibilities as well. 801 8
Campbell Did you socialize together? 801 11
Jackie Yes. We did. 801 12
Campbell What kind of activities would you do together? 801 13
Jackie Michael worked evenings and weekends. I know he worked on Saturday. We used to go shopping. I used to go and pick her up, as Michael monitored the amount of miles she put on the car, so I usually drove. We wuold go shopping, run errands, or go see her grandmother. 801 15
Campbell Was this the grandmother at Majestic Towers? 801 21
Jackie Yes. It was. 801 23
Campbell How much time did you spend together in a given month on weekends? 801 24
Jackie We probably spent a couple Saturdays together a month depending what she had going on in her life and what I had going on in my life. 802 1
Campbell Did you also socialize during week nights? 802 4
Jackie On occasion, yes, we did, but not usually. 802 6
Campbell How would you describe your friendship during that time frame? 802 8
Jackie Theresa and I are the same age. We had a lot of things in common. When I came to work for Prudential, I think Michael had just left one employer or was unemployed or recently gained employment and they were having some financial problems living on one income. And my husband, shortly after, in the fall of 1988, he lost his job as well. So we had different things we could relate to. 802 10
Campbell Would you confide in each other about these difficulties? 802 19
Jackie Yes. She was upset that she could not go anywhere. Mostly in the evening she stayed home. That is why on Saturdays we would go shopping. Not necessarily to buy anything, just for both of us to get out of the house. We would have lunch usually somewhere and visit her grandmother. 803 1
Campbell Tell me about the visits to her grandmother. 803 3
Jackie I don’t know why here grandmother was in the nursing home, but she was very, you know, she usually was in bed when we were there. I don’t recall her not being in bed. And she was fine. We talked to her. Theresa would talk to her about different things that was going on in her life or with the family. It was just idle conversation. You know, sometimes we spent an hour there. Sometimes more. Sometimes less. Depending on what other things we had to do during that day. 803 5
Campbell Did you see other residents at Majestic Towers? 803 15
Jackie Yes. Her grandmother’s room was in the nursing home quite a bit. I mean, you know, not right at the door, so we had to pass other rooms. And there were other people in her grandmother’s room. 803 17
Campbell Could you describe the people you would pass by on the way to the grandmother’s room visually? 803 22
Jackie Some people were in wheel chairs. Some 803 25
Jackie people in their room. There was people that would moan. Some of the other people in her grandmother’s room did not communicate with us and maybe they were sleeping. I don’t know. Some people were -- never saw do anything but lay there. So I don’t know what their situation was. 804 1
Campbell Did you see any patients on ventilators or respirators?` 804 7
Felos Leading question, Your Honor. 804 9
Court Overruled. 804 11
Jackie I don’t recall seeing people on ventilators and I don’t recall seeing people on feeding tubes, but at that time I really didn’t know what a feeding tube was. 804 12
Campbell Were there any patients you saw with tubes in their noses? 804 16
Jackie It’s been so long ago, I honestly really concentrated on Theresa’s grandmother and not on the other patients. 804 18
Campbell Were you aware of Theresa’s medical health in 1988, 1989 time frame? 804 21
Jackie Yes. As a matter of fact, we both went to the same gynecologist. Usually it seemed our appointments were right near each other. So she 804 23
Jackie would share, I have a doctor’s appointment, and usually mine was like right around there.

I know she was having problems with her period. She said that is -- she had never gotten pregnant during her and Michael’s marriage and she had never been on any form of birth control. That was something that she was talking to the doctor about.

After one of the visits, I know they were going to start performing tests to find out if the problem lied with her or Michael. They wanted to start with the tests on Michael, as I guess there was only one test that he needed to do, and then otherwise they would start doing several tests on Theresa. As far as I know, she told me that Michael did not want to do the test as he had to provide a semen sample. 805 1
Campbell To you knowledge, did Terri become pregnant during that time frame? 805 18
Jackie No. Not to my knowledge. 805 20
Campbell Did Terri ever indicate she was trying to have children? 805 21
Jackie She never indicated that she wanted children. She just indicated that she had never gotten pregnant and they were looking into 805 23
Jackie medically why that had not happened. 806 1
Campbell Were you ever around Terri and Michael together? 806 2
Jackie There was a few occasions. A Saturday where I would pick Theresa up and I was around Theresa and Michael. There were, you know, they seemed like any normal couple. I remember one time. She had rather thin legs. Michael was laying on the floor looking at Theresa. We were both standing there getting ready to walk out the door. He told her her legs were skinny. 806 4
Campbell To you knowledge, did Terri have a weight problem? 806 12
Jackie No. The time I knew her she was very thin. She had shared with me at one time she was very heavy and she had lost a lot of the weight and she was very proud of her accomplishment and the weight loss. 806 14
Campbell When was the last time that you spoke to Terri? 806 19
Jackie The last time I spoke to Terri was February 24th of 1990. It had been a big joke that week at work because she was going for a hair appointment on Saturday and she had dyed her hair blond. Her hair was normally blond, although she 806 21
Jackie naturally had very dark hair. She had to decide whether or not she wanted to stay a blond or if she was going to go back to her natural color.

So I called her Saturday afternoon and asked her, well, are we a blond or brunette? She said I’m still a blond. But she was very, very upset when I was talking to her. It sounded like she had been crying. I asked her if she was okay. She said she had a fight with Michael. That he was extremely upset with her because she had spent, I think she told me $80, on her hair that day to stay blond.

So I asked her if she wanted me to come over. She didn’t seem like her normal, jovial self. She said that’s okay. I’m going over to Bobby’s. I said are you sure. She was very upset. She said I’m going to Bobby’s. I already talked to him and am going to go over as soon as we get off the phone. 807 1
Campbell How long of a time frame were the two of you in this close friendship there? 807 20
Jackie I’d say I started there in May of ‘88. It takes a little time to form a friendship. I’d say for a good year we were pretty good -- very close friends. We shared different things about 807 22
Jackie our lives. 808 1
Campbell When did you first hear then about Terri’s incident? 808 2
Jackie I received a phone call on, early Sunday morning, February 25th, from Murial Westrom, a lady we worked with. She informed me Theresa collapsed at her home and she was at the hospital and she had to be taken by paramedics to the hospital and that she wasn’t doing very well. And she told me which hospital it was. I’m sorry, but I don’t recall. I don’t know if I went over that day or the next day. 808 4
Campbell What happened when you went to the hospital? 808 13
Jackie There were quite a few people there. Family members. Michael. Michael’s family, I believe were there. The Schiavos. The Schindlers. People from work. Theresa was well liked. There were several of us sitting there. I was trying to understand what had transpired. Michael had, I guess, found her on the floor in the bathroom.

I knew that he was a restaurant manager and figured he knew CPR. I asked him, I said, well, do you know CPR? He said yes. I said did 808 15
Jackie you perform it on Theresa? He said no. He had panicked. 809 1
Campbell How often did you visit Terri in those early days? 809 3
Jackie In the early days, I was there for the first month or two every evening after work. 809 5
Campbell Did you continue to visit Terri frequently? 809 7
Jackie Yes. I did. There was a period that I, you know, did not go quite as often. For the first month or two, I was there every day. After that, it may have been like a couple of times a week. 809 9
Campbell Were you aware of any fund raising to help with Terri’s expenses? 809 14
Jackie Yes. Things going on in the county. I don’t recall, but I know there were different things going on, maybe like a carwash. But Prudential, we were so upset by what happened, we sent letters out to all the other Prudential offices requesting assistance for one of our fellow employees. And we got in trouble for that, but we did it anyway. I don’t know how much money was raised. I think it went to a bank, but I don’t know the amount that was raised. 809 16
Campbell Did you attend the trial in this case? The malpractice trial? 810 1
Jackie Yes. I attended the malpractice trial. A few other people from work also attended to tell what kind of person Theresa was, and she was a loss to the company, and you know, to her family and friends.

One thing that did occur during that trial, my husband was in the hospital having a heart cauterization and I had to go down there as soon as I left the Courtroom, as soon as I testified, and the malpractice attorney followed me down to the pay phone and said to me, you know, it wouldn’t help the case at all if I told them that Theresa and Michael were talking about getting a divorce. I turned to him and I said if I’m asked that question and that is the correct answer, that is the answer I’m going to give. 810 3
Campbell Did you believe that Michael and Terri were getting a divorce? 810 19
Jackie There had been several times throughout Theresa’s and my friendship that she was extremely mad at Michael. That there was a lot of mental abuse. 810 21
Felos Your Honor, objection. That 810 25
is a conclusion on the part of the witness. 811 1
Court Yeah, it is, coming up at an odd time in her testimony. She is in ‘92 now. Now all of a sudden she’s getting back because of a, of something a lawyer said. I’m going to sustain the objection. 811 2
Jackie Okay. I’m sorry. Could you repeat the question? 811 7
Campbell Okay. Was there, when you are saying that -- tell the Court if there were any specific examples of instances with you and Terri concerning an issue of concern between the marriage. 811 9
Jackie When Theresa and I worked together, we sat side by side. There were days that if Michael were to call into the office, she did not want to take his phone call because they were fighting about a -- specifically, there was a period of time where Michael was not employed and they were living at the Schindlers’ condo.

Theresa told me that if it had not been for her parents and their condo, she didn’t know where they would live because they could not afford to pay rent right now. And Michael, when he was employed, and I don’t recall which employer 811 14
Jackie it was, but he was very upset with the employer and things that were going on there, and he constantly would call her and threaten to quit his job. And Theresa was begging him to just look for something else and then quit when he had something else. And he did not do that because he quit that employer. He was no longer employed. 812 1
Campbell Do you know whether or not Terri specifically was seeking to get a divorce? 812 8
Jackie She had talked about it on several occasions. As a matter of fact, we had talked about living together, as my husband was very controlling to me and he asked for, my husband asked for a divorce also. 812 10
Campbell So you went through a divorce? 812 15
Jackie Yes. 812 16
Campbell Was that after Terri’s accident? 812 17
Jackie Yes. It was. 812 18
Campbell When did you move away from Florida? 812 19
Jackie December of 1986. 812 20
Campbell How frequently did you see Terri prior to you leaving? 812 21
Jackie I probably -- during 1996, I probably only saw her a few times. It was not as frequently as it had been in the beginning. 812 23
Campbell What were your observations of Terri then? 813 1
Jackie Terri always responded when I went to see her. I would come in and say Terri, it’s Jackie. How are you? I would startle her and I learned not to do that. She would just jump a little bit. Then I would talk to her if I was standing by her bed.

And in talking to her, her eyes would always look at me. There would be times that she seemed to be a little tense with her arms up like this. And when I would talk to her and tell her who I was, it seemed as though her arms would relax and move down during our visit. 813 3
Campbell Did you notice any other specific reactions or changes in her facial expressions? 813 15
Jackie Sometimes it was she would make sounds depending on maybe what I would say to her. Maybe, in my opinion, as if to communicate with me. There were times, too, that I would try to get a reaction out of her to see if I felt that she was really, you know, understanding that I ws there.

Whether she was -- well, before she would joke around that when Michael was not working that she was supporting him. Now that she 813 17
Jackie was in the hospital, because of her years of service with the company, she would still continue for a period of time to receive her paycheck. Actually, Michael would have received it. I used to say things to her like, Theresa, you’re still supporting Michael.

It was as if she tensed up. I would do things like that to see if she was really responding to something I was saying. 814 1
Campbell Did you believe she was understanding what you were saying? 814 10
Jackie Yes. It was my impression. 814 12
Campbell Did you think she was aware of your presence? 814 13
Jackie I definitely believe she was aware of my presence. There were times, too, that another person I worked with might go with me to the nursing home. One of us would stand on one side of the bed sometimes and the other stand on the other. It was as if she followed us. If I was talking to her on this side, she would be turning this way, and the other person would talk and she would, as if she turned her head the other way to acknowledge both our presence. 814 15
Campbell When was the last time you saw Terri? 814 25
Jackie I went to see her Monday night? 815 1
Campbell Did you notice any difference from before in ‘96? I guess I should ask, have you seen Terri from ‘96 until now? 815 2
Jackie No. 815 5
Campbell Did you notice any differences from the last time in ‘96 that you saw her versus now? 815 6
Jackie She still responded to me. I did not notice any change. She still looked at me. When I got there, she had been, one of the people had been cleaning her up they said. I had to wait a few minutes to get in there. Her arms were up like this. I went in. 815 8
Jackie I said, hey Terri, it’s Jackie. I know it’s been a while, but I’m here to visit and see how you’re doing. I was rubbing her leg. Her arms went down as I was rubbing her leg. Her arms went down and she pulled the blankets off her. I covered her up. She seemed to be more relaxed when I was there. 815 14
Campbell Did you notice any change in her facial expression on this visit? 815 21
Jackie She still looked at me when I talked to her. She did look away when I stopped talking. But I didn’t -- you know, that is what I noticed 815 23
Jackie before. 816 1
Campbell On this past Monday, did she make any sounds to you one way or the other? 816 2
Jackie Before I went into the room, while the person was cleaning her up and getting her dressed, she was very loud. Making a lot of sounds. Noises. When I went in there, there was a couple of times when I would say, you know, that I have talked to Robbie or mentioned somebody that we worked with, that she had made sounds as if to acknowledge the person that I was talking about. 816 4
Campbell Did you ever discuss any thoughts Terri had on end of life issues? 816 12
Jackie That never was discussed between Terri and myself. I know that when we were in the nursing home, there were so many people in there in various stages of condition that I truly feel that — 816 14
Felos Your Honor, I object. she said she never discussed it with Theresa and she is making conclusion of what Theresa may have thought because Theresa was in a nursing home. That is sheer guessing and speculation. 816 19
Court I think that is probably true. 816 24
Campbell When you were in the nursing home, did Terri make any comments to you in any manner about the residents that were there? 817 1
Jackie Theresa never said during our visits that she would not want to live like this. 817 4
Campbell Did she ever make any comments that – regarding the specific conditions that you witnessed together? 817 6
Jackie No. 817 9
Campbell I have no further questions at this point. 817 10
Court Thank you. Cross-examination? 817 12
Felos Yes, Your Honor. 817 14
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY GEORGE FELOS
Felos Is it Ms. Rhodes? 817 17
Jackie Yes. 817 18
Felos :You have not remarried? 817 19
Jackie No. Not yet. 20
Felos How are you feeling right now? 21
Jackie I’m fine. 22
Felos My impression is that your voice sounds a little agitated to me. Are you feeling a little agitated right now? 23
Jackie No. 818 1
Felos Theresa never said when she was in the nursing home that she did not want to live like this; correct? 818 2
Jackie Correct. 818 5
Felos Did Theresa ever say I want to live like this? 818 6
Jackie No. She did not. 818 8
Felos As I understand it, you did not come down here for the trial. I think that was the firs thing you were asked. But you happened to be here visiting friends? 818 9
Jackie Yes. 818 13
Felos Why did Pam Campbell agree to reimburse you for airfare if you just happened to be down here visiting friends? 818 14
Jackie I have friends down here. I had intentions of coming down here, and when I found out this trial was going on, I was coming down here. I decided to come down earlier, rather than later in the year. 818 17
Felos So you decided to have Pam Campbell pay for it? 818 22
Jackie Actually, I paid for it. 818 24
Felos And you have an agreement with Ms. 818 25
Felos Campbell that you be reimbursed; is that correct? 819 1
Jackie It has been mentioned to me that I will be reimbursed for it, but I have not asked for the reimbursement. 819 2
Felos I asked you in your deposition on Page 15, Line 2, do you have an agreement with anyone to be reimbursed for your expenses?

Answer. Pam Campbell did state to me they will reimburse me for my flight. 819 5
Jackie Yes. That is correct. I did say that. 819 10
Felos Let’s get at it. You came down here to testify at this trial; didn’t you? 819 11
Jackie That was one of the reasons why I came. 819 13
Felos Okay. It’s not that you were happening to visit friends and you were down here? 819 14
Jackie No. 819 16
Felos We heard a litany in your testimony about Michael did this, Michael did that, and Terri told me about the hair and Michael was angry at this. We were both going to get a divorce and talking about living together. One after another, after another, after another. Do you have an axe to grind against Mr. Schiavo? 819 17
Jackie No. I do not. Michael was always very nice to me whenever I had any -- 819 24
Felos You were having marital difficulties at the time; were you not? 820 1
Jackie I was going through counseling. Yes. 820 3
Felos I recall in your deposition, and we can find it, didn’t you describe your husband as antisocial? 820 4
Jackie Yes. He only liked to do things with his friends. He didn’t like to do things with my friends. 820 7
Felos Is it possible you may be projecting some of your own marital difficulties at the time on Terri’s and Mike’s marriage? 820 10
Jackie No. 820 13
Felos Do you have a current recollection of these events that you testified to today? 820 14
Jackie Yes. I do. 820 16
Felos Is it a firm recollection? 820 17
Jackie Yes. It is. 820 18
Felos What I don’t understand is this. I took your deposition -- 820 19
Jackie On January 12th. 820 21
Felos Yeah. I guess your recollection is very good. A couple of weeks ago. I was very specific in asking you what things you talked to Terri about and what you two confided about. I’ll read 820 22
Felos from your deposition rather extensively. It’s important here.

On Page 15, Line 1, you mentioend that you would each share things that were going on in your life. You mentioned one of the things that Terri shard was that she was bored in the evening because her husband worked evenings.

Answer: Um-hmm.

Question: Any other things that you can recall that Terri shared with you about her life? Things that were happening in her life?

Answer: they were talking about having, she was going to the same gynecologist that I was and she did -- she had not gotten pregnant and I guess they were going to try to have a child.

You talk on page 6 about the gynecology. The pregnancy. The children. Then I go on right after that on Page 16, Line 21,

Question: Are there any other subjects that you can recall Terri talked to you about besides the one you mentioned?

Answer: There would be times that Michael would call her at work and you know be upset and want to quit his job and she would become upset. So I would talk to her about that, 821 1
Felos as my husband would do the same thing to me. So we could relate. 822 1
Campbell Objection to this line of questioning. So far the testimony he is reading is the same testimony she gave this morning. 822 3
Court With one exception. My notes say Michael called constantly. What he just read, the quote I wrote down is at times. 822 6
Felos It’s the next question, Your Honor. After the one about conversations about the job.

Question: Anything else you can think of as far as things that Terri, things happening in Terri’s life that she discussed with you?

Answer: I really can’t remember. It’s been so long.

Can you tell me why two weeks ago I asked you specifically to tell me the things that Terri told you about in her life and you told me about Mike calling up, being upset about his job. You told me about the gynecologist. You told me she was upset about his working evenings, and that was it. You could not recall anything else.

Now, two weeks later, you come in here and have a long time to think Michael has done 822 9
Felos this and that. Terri told me about a divorce. We were going to live together. Have an apartment. How is it you recall all these things, but you did not tell me that two weeks ago? 823 1
Jackie When I had the deposition, if you recall, I was subpoenaed to give my deposition on I believe it was Friday, January 7th. I could not, as I had a very important business meeting that I had to attend, and for several weeks prior to my deposition I was working several hours a day.

By the time -- I work an hour away from where I live. By the time I get home, it was 9 o’clock. Basically, I would go to bed. This happened for several weeks. Probably a month. I did not have time to think about anything but my project I was doing at work.

After my deposition, I sat down by myself and I thought what else do I remember about my friendship and times I spent with Theresa. 823 5
Felos Well a marriage dissolving and Terri maybe living with you is something you did not recall, it was something you did not recall at your deposition? 823 21
Jackie No. 823 25
Felos Are you saying at the time of your deposition that was not in your memory? 824 1
Jackie Like I said, I was very concentrated on my work. I did not have an opportunity to really think back and recall every instance and every situation that Terri and I talked about. 824 3
Felos Now we had some testimony about going to the nursing home. I think you were asked the condition of the other people in the room of Terri’s grandmother? 824 7
Jackie Um-hmm. 824 11
Felos What was your answer about that? You described some conditions? 824 12
Jackie That they were, the other people were in bed. I don’t recall ever talking about the other people. I don’t recall if anyone was on a feeding tube or life support of any sort. 82 14
Felos So you don’t recall the condition of the other patients in Terri’s grandmother’s room; is that correct? 824 18
Jackie There were three other people in Terri’s grandmother’s room. I don’t recall. I know some people just laid there and we never saw them out of bed. But I don’t recall if they were on any, you know, oxygen or feeding tube or anything. 824 21
Felos Is it fair to say that you don’t recall the condition of the other patients in Terri’s grandmother’s room? 825 1
Jackie Yes. 825 4
Felos Let’s talk about Terri’s condition. As I understand it, you believe that -- well, repeat it for me. Why do you believe that Terri has cognizance, awareness? 825 5
Jackie Because when I speak to her, she looks at me. She seems to relax. When I am in the room talking to her, she remembers me. 825 9
Felos Hold on. What do you observe that leads you to the conclusion that Terri remembers you? 825 12
Jackie She relaxes. When I go -- as in Monday night when I went into the room she was like this (indicates). I started talking to her and her arms, it was as if her body relaxed. Her face was just calm. She seemed to be somewhat agitated when I got into the room after the gentleman was fussing, cleaning her up. Probably moving her around. She seemed to be very tense.

Then when I went in there and started talking to her, her arms fell down to lower, like around her waist. She looked at me. Her mouth moved. She made some noises and she looked at me 825 14
Jackie when I was talking. When I stopped talking, she did look away. 826 1
Felos When you said she looked, do you mean her eyes moved? 826 3
Jackie Yes. 826 5
Felos Not her head? 826 6
Jackie She was laying on her side, so it was not probably as easy for her to move her head. 826 7
Felos Okay. So a change in facial expression? 826 9
Jackie Right. 826 10
Felos Sounds? 826 11
Jackie Yes. 826 12
Felos Eyes moving? 826 13
Jackie Yes. 826 14
Felos Head turning? 826 15
Jackie No head turning. And change in body movement. 826 16
Felos In all your visits besides the ones you describe, are there any things that Terri does that leads you to believe that she is aware of your presence? 826 18
Jackie I believe all those things make me believe she is aware of my presence. 826 22
Felos Is there anything else you have seen on other visits? 826 24
Jackie No. Not that I can recall. 827 1
Felos Tell me the things about the blanket again. I didn’t quite get that on your direct examination. 827 2
Jackie On Monday night when I went in to see her, she had he hands up like this (indicates) and her blanket, I believe a sheet and flannel type sheet, were up around her neck like this. when she moved her hands down like this (indicates), her blanket also came down. 827 5
Felos Okay. 827 11
Jackie That was due to the movement of her hands. 827 12
Felos Before your last visit to Terri, how often would you visit her when you lived in Florida, of course? 827 14
Jackie The Sabal Palms was fairly close to my home. I would stop in there probably less than once a month, but I would stop in, you know, on occasion. 827 17
Felos How about when Terri’s first -- the incident first happened, did you see her more often? 827 21
Jackie I was there for the first month or two, I was there every evening. After that, it was 827 24
Jackie probably a few times a week. 828 1
Felos Okay. Now you can’t say that for every visit you believe Terri has been aware of your presence; can you? 828 2
Jackie There was some type of reaction,. Yes. Each visit that I saw her. 828 5
Felos So in the month or two after the incident, you believe Terri was aware of your presence because she exhibited these reactions? 828 7
Jackie Yes. 828 10
Felos And there has been no visit where you have not observed the reactions? 828 11
Jackie It may not have been all of them, but there were some of them. Yes. 828 13
Felos Well, we have had testimony in this trial, I have to say in some rare unanimity, we have had no dispute from Mr. Schindler, from Mrs. Schindler, from Mr. Schiavo, that in the first few months of Terri’s incident that she was unresponsive. Mrs. Schindler said no response. No awareness for Terri. Mr. Schindler, no response. No awareness. She was on a respirator.

It was only afterwards that they noticed, her own parents noticed a response. Some response. But your testimony is that you visited 828 15
Felos her right after the accident, daily initially, and you saw responses of Terri that made you believe that she was aware of your presence. Is that your testimony? 829 1
Jackie Yes. But in the beginning, we were not all allowed in to see Terri. I may not have seen her every visit that I was down there. 829 5
Felos Okay. But the visits at the hospital where you did see Terri? 829 8
Jackie Um-hmm -- 829 10
Felos -- in the month or two after her accident, according to your testimony, she made these responses and you believe she was aware of your presence? 829 11
Jackie Yes. 829 15
Felos Do you have any suggestion or explanation why her own parents did not get any response from Terri or see anything like that in the first couple of months after the accident? 829 16
Jackie I was not always in the room with, you know -- sometimes I was in there by myself. I don’t know what other people saw. 829 20
Felos Okay. You mentioned the comments that again, Terri in the nursing home, never said I don’t want to live like that. Will you agree that there is nothing about the nursing home visits to Terri’s grandmother which would shed light on Terri’s intent? 829 23
Jackie Would I agree? 830 4
Felos Yes 830 5
Jackie No. I think if she would not want to live like that she would have said this, you know, is a terrible life. I don’t want to live like this. 830 6
Felos Do you remember your deposition again? Page 31, Line 15, I asked you, so there is nothing about the nursing home visits which would shed light on Terri’s intent?

Answer. No.

So the answer is no? There’s no – there is no question, so the answer is no, there is nothing?

Answer: Right. No. There is nothing. I have no other questions, Your Honor. 830 10
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY CAMPBELL
Campbell When did you first arrive here for this visit to Florida? 830 23
Jackie On Saturday afternoon, January 22nd. 830 25
Campbell What have you been doing since Saturday till now? 831 1
Jackie I have spent time with my friends, Scott and Molly Jones, and two little girls. 831 3
Campbell So you have been vacationing? 831 5
Jackie Yeah. 831 6
Campbell :You are not working on any specific work project? 831 7
Jackie No. 831 9
Campbell Has coming back to Tampa Bay area reminded you of your days when you were here with Terri? 831 10
Jackie Yes. 831 13
Campbell So you have had time to think about you and Terri’s relationship? 831 14
Jackie Since not worknig and not stressed from work, yes. 831 16
Campbell You talked about when Terri looks at you that she looks at you. Her eyes look at you. Can you describe that look? 831 18
Jackie She looks at me and she just, her eyes stay focused on me, and in my opinion, it is that she really remembers me. It seems as though Monday night she tried to communicate with me. 831 21
Campbell Would you describe it as a blank stare? 831 25
Jackie No. 832 1
Campbell Have you ever been to visit Terri, either this past Monday night or in the ‘96/’95 time frame, gone with Mr. and Mrs. Schindler to visit Terri? 832 2
Jackie No. 832 6
Campbell Have you ever seen the reaction then that Terri has with other people on a regular day-to-day basis that take care of Terri, like Mrs. Schindler? 832 7
Jackie No. 832 11
Campbell I have no further questions. 832 12

Fair question , fairly asked.

I see this is your first post here at Free Republic. Welcome.

I am a right to life advocate, but not a rabid one. I believe that there should be controls on the use of abortion in the first trimester. I know that there are some that do not hold my beliefs in this regard and can and sometimes do make a good argument for choice in the early term of pregnancy.

For a period of time I worked in an inner-city hospital and witnessed dozens of abortions a day, performed merely for convenience. Many of these patients had many prior abortions and abortion was no more than a method of birth control. I found this personally repulsive.

I find no rationale, either from a religious point of view or a medical point of view, that justifies partial birth abortion. This is murder and must be rejected on religious, societal and moral grounds. There is nothing that can justify such an act. The health of the mother argument is specious and dishonest. By the time the infant is exposed to the point of opening the skull and suctioning it’s brain it is already born.

I do believe however, that a person has the right to choose the manner of his own death, just as I believe that a person has all the right in the world to continue their own treatment, futile though that treatment may be. I can find no conflict with this right and my Christian belief.

I guess you might call me a middle-of-the-roader.

I have no objection to any investigation of possible foul-play in this matter. The problem is I don't see any real evidence of foul play.

When I got out of the Marine Corps I spent a while as a police officer in Southern California. I can't tell you how many domestic violence calls I went on- hundreds I suppose. I also had the opportunity to investigate untold numbers of assaults, batteries, and beatings. Many with more injuries that is reported by the Schiavo bone scan report. Many that were fatal.

The one thing that was axiomatic with these beatings, where there were broken bones involved, there were recognizible injuries to the overlying tissue whether they were purple bruises or simply red marks. If these weren't apparent initially they certainly appeared shortly after the incident.

As far as manual strangulation injuries, all were accompanied by visible injuries to the neck.

Observation of these injuries wasn't reported in Terri's case. Not by the ER staff or later by the nursing staff. If they were present, they would have been reported, unless one believes that all the the involved doctors, ER staff and the nursing staff are grossly incompetent or, as has been suggested here, a part of a great conspiracy to kill Terri Shiavo.

Nonsense.

Nonsense also applies to the proposition that all twenty or so members of the participating judiciary are a part of this great conspiracy. I happen to know a few of the judges involved, both on the circuit level and the appellate level. I believe that they are men of particularly high moral standards and pillars of their community and their churches.

I invite you to read the opinion of the Second District Court of Appeal published June 6, 2003, (referred to as Schiavo IV) and see the painful lengths that these judges went to in arriving at their decision. I think it will be evident to you the compassion they had for not only Terri, but for the Schlindler's as well.

I believe that Terri didn't want to be warehoused in limbo as she is now. I believe that Judge Greer found correctly that "by clear and convincing evidence" she wouldn't wish to be maintained in this limbo.

I believe that Terri's body may be "living" but that which was Terri, has long been dead.

It isn't a matter of being saved. You see it as "cold-blooded murder", "pre-meditated murder". I see it as honoring her wishes, of an end to the turmoil and heartache for her family. And an end to the interference in what was Terri's choice by people that never knew Terri, but want to use her to their own political and ideological ends and will do so through false allegations, false science, and their own self-perceived moral superioriy.

I believe it's time to let Terri go. If you want to investigate her husband, then go ahead. If he's proven guilty then punish him accordingly. But prove your case with facts, not false science or "it could be" evidence.

I do believe however, that a person has the right to choose the manner of his own death, just as I believe that a person has all the right in the world to continue their own treatment, futile though that treatment may be. I can find no conflict with this right and my Christian belief.

If so, you then believe that a person has a right to commit suicide. And this violates the Biblical prohibition against murder.

I believe it's time to let Terri go.

She will die sooner or later (as will you and I... with the exception for me if Jesus comes again before that time), but why by starvation or euthanasia? How do you square either one with the scriptures?

with the exception for me if Jesus comes again before that time

Good zinger :-) We are dealing with a wolf in sheep's clothing here.

I believe that Terri's body may be "living" but that which was Terri, has long been dead.

It isn't a matter of being saved.

Nice little shift from "humble personal belief" to "arrogant proclamation of (alleged) fact."

I hear the arooooooooooooooooo behind that fleece. Bigtime.

Nonsense also applies to the proposition that all twenty or so members of the participating judiciary are a part of this great conspiracy.

Straw man. I leave it as an exercise to you as to how.

I invite you to read the opinion of the Second District Court of Appeal published June 6, 2003, (referred to as Schiavo IV) and see the painful lengths that these judges went to in arriving at their decision. I think it will be evident to you the compassion they had for not only Terri, but for the Schlindler's as well.

In part, allow me to note that expressions of "compassion" do not equal "compassion" -- and in part, allow me to note that the appeals court is limited in what they can do if Greer's own fact judging capability is skewed, so they can pen a very sympathetic note because their hands are safely tied from being able to address the linchpin of the problem.

God save me from your, and their, kind of false "compassion."

And, as it has been pointed out time and time again (but as trolls never seem to learn, especially puffed up ones that parade about in Christian garb) either Terri is gone or she isn't. If Terri is gone, then she cannot be done a disservice by someone who keeps her live body going as a memento, any more than I am done a disservice if the garbage man takes my rotten tomatoes home instead of to the dump. If Terri is not gone, then it is an evil act to kill her. The illustrious "doctor?" (note that all man's own "righteousnesses" are as filthy rags before God) seems to be trying to maintain both positions in parallel. No can do.

Larry King's producer cancelled the 2nd Schindler appearance. First time Terri's dad was ill. They usually do H & C from a local studio. They don't have to fly to LA.

Michael is an R.N., a rotten nurse. Rotten husband.

Why did King call it off the second time?

Oh, day late's been back. Need some troll be gone towards the end of this thread in the late 700s and beyond. Sounds an awful like he's on the other team.

One of the accounts bouncing around (I don't have a good grasp on that end of the story) is that MS wasn't a nurse until Terri's collapse, then he got schooling as such as part of the effort (or show thereof) to see Terri rehabbed.

Well, they had something breaking re: Laci Peterson. Terri who is still with us and Laci Peterson are both vying for prime time.

It's good that Terri is getting the public awareness she's needed for so long. She has better name recognition than the Dem presidential candidates.

You must not have studied the details of this case. It's all about MONEY, MONEY. That's what Michael R. Schiavo is about -- MONEY. It there is a little notoriety required to collect the MONEY, so be it.

It does indeed.

One drenching of Troll B Gone coming right up!

This particular troll really frosts me. Parading about like a boy scout.