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Fossils Bridge Gap in African Mammal Evolution
Reuters to My Yahoo! ^ | Wed Dec 3, 2003 | Patricia Reaney

Posted on 12/03/2003 4:53:26 PM PST by Pharmboy

LONDON (Reuters) - Fossils discovered in Ethiopia's highlands are a missing piece in the puzzle of how African mammals evolved, a team of international scientists said on Wednesday.

Little is known about what happened to mammals between 24 million to 32 million years ago, when Africa and Arabia were still joined together in a single continent.

But the remains of ancestors of modern-day elephants and other animals, unearthed by the team of U.S. and Ethiopian scientists 27 million years on, provide some answers.

"We show that some of these very primitive forms continue to live through the missing years, and then during that period as well, some new forms evolved -- these would be the ancestors of modern elephants," said Dr John Kappelman, who headed the team.

The find included several types of proboscideans, distant relatives of elephants, and fossils from the arsinoithere, a rhinoceros-like creature that had two huge bony horns on its snout and was about 7 feet high at the shoulder.

"It continues to amaze me that we don't have more from this interval of time. We are talking about an enormous continent," said Kappelman, who is based at the University of Texas at Austin.

Scientists had thought arsinoithere had disappeared much earlier but the discovery showed it managed to survive through the missing years. The fossils from the new species found in Ethiopia are the largest, and at 27 million years old, the youngest discovered so far.

"If this animal was still alive today it would be the central attraction at the zoo," Tab Rasmussen, a paleontologist at Washington University in St Louis, Missouri who worked on the project, said in a statement.

Many of the major fossil finds in Ethiopia are from the Rift Valley. But Kappelman and colleagues in the United States and at Ethiopia's National Science Foundation (news - web sites) and Addis Ababa University concentrated on a different area in the northwestern part of the country.

Using high-resolution satellite images to scour a remote area where others had not looked before, his team found the remains in sedimentary rocks about 6,600 feet above sea level.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: africa; archaeology; crevolist; evolution; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; links; mammals; multiregionalism; neandertal
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To: Piltdown_Woman
the creator of the massive sculpture was only interested in financial gain

Exactly. As recognized by Barnum Bailey (who purchased it, IIRC).

241 posted on 12/04/2003 10:57:20 AM PST by Stultis
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To: Modernman
Humans in the "flesh body" did not exist at the time of the dinosaurs.

However, that is not to say that a body of a different dimension not visable to the "man in flesh", did not exist at the time of the dinosaurs.

But hey each to his own and not my job to pull away your religion out from under you. Now if "E's" are honest about "evolution" and a never ending process they should be first in line for "anything goes". Rather they are very rigid in their belief, full of scorn for any and all who dare to question them, kinds like most' "C's".
242 posted on 12/04/2003 10:58:09 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Agamemnon
It cuts straight to your credibity, and the basic intellectual dishonesty, which characterizes so much of the evolution-driven thought processes of otherwise seemingly intellegent persons.

Oh no, you're not drawing me into this ridiculous debate. Creationists have an obvious agenda, driven by the lack of hard science on their side, and I'm sick of it. Don't ping me to this crap.

Fair warning given.

243 posted on 12/04/2003 10:59:56 AM PST by Aracelis
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To: Just mythoughts
Humans in the "flesh body" did not exist at the time of the dinosaurs.

Are you a theosophist?

244 posted on 12/04/2003 11:00:19 AM PST by Stultis
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To: Hunble
I have never understood the reasons for this debate.

The debate exists because there are "fundamentalists" on both sides. The "scientific" fundamentalists like the late Stephen Jay Gould simply won't consider even the possiblity of any causation beyond what can be detected and measured by science. The religious fundamentalists believe in the absolute and literal truth of whatever holy book or teaching they subscribe to.

Of course there's a huge area in the middle that allows for acceptance of evolution in a universal scheme far beyond the possibility of human understanding. It also allows for the possibility of a "C/creator." Because we are all "Strangers and afraid in a world we never made," (to take a few liberties with A.E. Housman), we all tend to buy into and cling to whatever belief system that gives us most comfort.

245 posted on 12/04/2003 11:01:10 AM PST by Bernard Marx (I have noted that persons with bad judgment are most insistent that we do what they think best.)
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To: Stultis
He tried to, but the owner refused to part with it. Barnum did create his own version and touted it as the original, though.
246 posted on 12/04/2003 11:04:09 AM PST by Junior ("Brillig and the Slithy Toves" would be a great name for a band.)
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To: Stultis
The Cardiff Giant was a cheap publicity stunt.

Interesting to see what you evolutionists will say about your frauds now when you just couldn't get 'em past the public then.

247 posted on 12/04/2003 11:05:36 AM PST by Agamemnon
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To: Dimensio
What exactly make them transitionals?

Come on it is a group of "humans" who have gotten together to prove a theory and they lay claim that "MAYBE" what is found is transitional.

Thus far not one of you have presented anything more than an artist rendition of what "might be" a transitional bones.

Now it is not possible for the "flesh human eye" to see that spirit dimension, simply because they are "flesh".

248 posted on 12/04/2003 11:10:48 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Stultis
No.

249 posted on 12/04/2003 11:13:48 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
Do you live in Hawaii?
250 posted on 12/04/2003 11:14:12 AM PST by atlaw
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To: Modernman
This is another premise we don't share. It's also patently unproveable. Where does this idea come from?

The converse is also patently unproveable. Physician, heal thyself.

251 posted on 12/04/2003 11:15:32 AM PST by Tares
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To: atlaw
I wish. The midwest, where the weather changes like a flesh beings "feelings".
252 posted on 12/04/2003 11:16:24 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Tares
The converse is also patently unproveable.

Not at all. Physical laws exist now and are observeable. Based on all available evidence, they never change. Granted, it is POSSIBLE that they sometimes change or don't apply, but it's also possible that we're all just plugged into the Matrix. Anything is possible. However, to show that something is in fact true, you need to supply some evidence.

253 posted on 12/04/2003 11:19:37 AM PST by Modernman (I am Evil Homer, I am Evil Homer....)
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To: Stultis; Ichneumon
Haekel's embryos were fraudulent (willful distortion)

Thanks for that admission. Let's see if your philosphical compatriot, Ichneumon, can find it within themselves to admit the same now too.

My point is made.

I was not part of what ever other discussion you must have with some other poster, so I don't know what else it is you are rambling on about to me.

An evolutionist's hoax is an evolutionist's hoax. Cardiff giant, Piltdown man, and Haekel. They're all yours. Case closed.

254 posted on 12/04/2003 11:20:30 AM PST by Agamemnon
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To: Piltdown_Woman
Oh no, you're not drawing me into this ridiculous debate.

Game set and matched, then. I graciously accept your fault.

255 posted on 12/04/2003 11:22:50 AM PST by Agamemnon
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To: Just mythoughts
Humans in the "flesh body" did not exist at the time of the dinosaurs.

However, that is not to say that a body of a different dimension not visable to the "man in flesh", did not exist at the time of the dinosaurs.

Odd, I don't recall that particular chapter and verse...

256 posted on 12/04/2003 11:25:00 AM PST by null and void (The meek shall inherit the Earth. The Stars belong to the bold.)
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To: Junior
You know, the whole "is reality real" thing was decent for picking up girls in college (it made them think you were deep), but it doesn't cut the mustard in the real world.

It isn't a matter of "is reality real". It's a matter of ones standard of evidence in the quest for knowledge. Naturalists need to demonstrate that empiricism alone is somehow more "objective" than divine revelation. What empirical evidence can a naturalist put forth in support of the contention that there are observers in the universe other than oneself? Without it, naturalism cuts the mustard in exactly the same way as every other belief system: by faith.

257 posted on 12/04/2003 11:26:54 AM PST by Tares
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To: whattajoke
"whattajoke" "Agreed. Now if only you'd agree with the same statement, substituting "evolutionists" with "creationists," we can get somewhere."

Whattajoke.

258 posted on 12/04/2003 11:27:35 AM PST by Agamemnon
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To: Agamemnon
An evolutionist's hoax is an evolutionist's hoax. Cardiff giant, Piltdown man, and Haekel. They're all yours. Case closed.

Guilt by association, then? Certainly, there are unscrupulous believers of evolution who have attempted to advance their careers through hoaxes. What of it? All three of these examples were eventually debunked by other scientists. There are also a good number of creationist charlatans who make their careers out of pandering to the beliefs of their fellow creationists.

259 posted on 12/04/2003 11:28:35 AM PST by Modernman (I am Evil Homer, I am Evil Homer....)
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To: All
Calling all aspiring evolutionists!

If you choose to go into the evolutionist profession, here is some advice. Never question anything that seems to positively assert evolution. Speak forcefully and positively as if you have some real data. If all else fails, don't be afraid to make something up. After all, who really can check on you. Say something like, "I have a friend who is doing research in micro-biology at the University, and he has found proof of evolution at a microscopic level." It would take someone a lot of work and many questions to get you to admit that you don't know what you're talking about.

Some might think that these tactics are unethical, but, given that you don't believe in God, and you don't believe in the Bible, by what standard would it be wrong to lie? Who is really to say what is or isn't ethical. If you throw God and the Bible out, there is no standard by which it would be wrong to lie, so you are free from the constraints of God and the Bible and absolutely free to lie your little heart out. And, even if you decided to make up an arbitrary rule against lying, the definion of, "lie," is purely a fabrication of your own mind. You are not constrained by the Bible or the Spirit of God.

Just take the example of a recent U.S. President who redefined the word, "is," as well as some other words. It's doubtful that his Vice President is capable of telling the truth, yet look at how hard all the news commentators and newspapers have worked to move the former Vice President of the U.S. into the presidency, even though they were unsuccessful. Even now, the news media continues to try to put a positive spin on all the criminal activity, lies, and indecent behavior of that administration. As an evolutionist, you can depend on the support of this same power of the media.

Seekfind

260 posted on 12/04/2003 11:31:19 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo
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