November 2001 plane crash (A A flight 587) Queens, NY was AL QAIDA operation

NATIONAL POST ( CANADA) ^ | 8/27/04 | Stewart Bell

[Cincinna]

November 2001 plane crash (A A flight 587) Queens, NY was AL QAIDA operation

Stewart Bell National Post ( CANADA)

August 27, 2004

A captured al-Qaeda operative has told Canadian intelligence investigators that a Montreal man who trained in Afghanistan alongside the 9/11 hijackers was responsible for the crash of an American Airlines flight in New York three years ago.

Canadian Security Intelligence Service agents were told during five days of interviews with the source that Abderraouf Jdey, a Canadian citizen also known as Farouk the Tunisian, had downed the plane with explosives on Nov. 12, 2001.

The source claimed Jdey had used his Canadian passport to board Flight 587 and "conducted a suicide mission" with a small bomb similar to the one used by convicted shoe bomber Richard Reid, a "Top Secret" Canadian government report says.

But officials said it was unlikely Jdey was actually involved in the crash, which killed 265 people and is considered accidental. The fact that al-Qaeda attributed the crash to Jdey, however, suggests they were expecting him to attack a plane.

"We have seen no evidence of anything other than an accident here," said Ted Lopatkiewicz, spokesman for the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board. "There has been no evidence found, from what I can tell -- at least that's been relayed to us -- that there was any criminality involved here. It appears, at least the evidence we have, is that a vertical fin came off, not that there was any kind of event in the cabin."

Jdey, 39, came to Canada from Tunisia in 1991 and became a citizen in 1995. Shortly after getting his Canadian passport, he left for Afghanistan and trained with some of the Sept. 11 hijackers, according to the 9/11 commission in the United States.

He recorded a "martyrdom" video, but was dropped from the 9/11 mission after returning to Canada in the summer of 2001. The planner of the World Trade Center attack, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, claims Jdey was recruited for a "second wave" of suicide attacks.

The FBI issued an alert seeking Jdey's whereabouts in 2002. John Ashcroft, the U.S. Attorney-General, told a news conference in May that Jdey was one of seven al-Qaeda associates "sought in connection with the possible terrorist threats in the United States."

The information on Jdey's alleged role in the plane crash is contained in a memo on captured Canadian al-Qaeda operative Mohammed Mansour Jabarah. The Canadian government memo was written in May, 2002, and was based on information provided by a "source of unknown reliability."

Jabarah is a 22-year-old from St. Catharines who allegedly joined al-Qaeda and convinced Osama bin Laden to give him a terror assignment. He was tasked with overseeing a suicide-bombing operation in Southeast Asia, but was caught and has since pleaded guilty in the United States.

The report, which was sent to the Philippine National Police intelligence directorate, recounts what Jabarah said he was told about the U.S. plane crash by Abu Abdelrahman, a Saudi al-Qaeda member who was working for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

"In discussions, Abu Abdelrahman mentioned AL QAIDA was responsible for the assassination of Massoud, the Northern Alliance leader," the report says. "According to the source, Abu Abdelrahman added that the 12 November 2001 plane crash (btb American Airlines flight 587) in Queens, New York was not an accident as reported in the press but was actually an AL QAIDA operation.

"Abu Abdelrahman informed Jabarah that Farouk the Tunisian conducted a suicide mission on the aeroplane using a shoe bomb of the type used by Richard Reid .... 'Farouk the Tunisian' was identified from newspaper photographs as being identical to Abderraouf Jdey, a Canadian citizen who had resided in Montreal."

Jabarah was initially suspect of the claim about Jdey, but he later believed it after he saw the same information on a "mujahedin Web site," the report says.

[lizma]

To me random reasonless disintegration is a scarier thought than deliberate terrorist acts.

Good point!

I knew a guy, employed by an outside firm (i.e. nongovernmental), who was involved in the investigation. He swears there was no evidence of terrorism.

I don't know but I'd prefer terrorism to an industry sooo sloppy and corrupt that they would risk plane parts flying off for profit.

[7.62 x 51mm]

Ditto that here, C.

Been saying that since '96 (TWA800) and '01(AA587).

Dammit.

[PaleoPal]

Am I remembering the Detroit thing right? I thought there was an angry dispute by at least one other pilot who saw the flaps in the proper position. And perhaps the union getting involved. But, I can't find anything by Googling.

Thanks

[fivecatsandadog]

Farouk the Tunisian???

[nw_arizona_granny]

Interesting post.

[COEXERJ145]

I hadn't heard anything about that but I'd have to get a copy of the NTSB report on that crash in order to be sure. I think they're online but if not I can get them from Texas A&M's library.

[HighWheeler]

This is only news to people who haven't paid attention to the details, the eyewitness accounts, and the FAA response.

Planes just don't fall out of the air from turbulence.

[rdl6989]

I don't think Al Qaida ever really formally admitted the September 11, 2001 attack. They didn't claim the USS Cole or the African embassies in 1998 or Khobar Towers. I believed long before the September 11, 2001 attack that flight 800, the Egypt Air 990 and the Swissair jet disasters were not accidents.

[FreeReign]

An al-Qaeda operative says it, and they print it as fact.

Also, the Canadian intelligence investigators who are said to heard this information from the al-Qaeda operative are -- wouldn't ya know it -- unnamed!

Without reading the rest of this thread I'd be willing to bet that none of this matters... It has got to be true.

[HighWheeler]

"Never let facts, logic, or occam's razor delay your rushing to conclusions..."

The ShoeBomber allows Flight 587 to fall into all those categories, and would have had the same result if the passengers hadn't reacted. I also read that the showbomber was sitting in the same part of the plane that the primary eyewitness said the 587 explosion came from.

[HighWheeler]

You should modify the search to fit the data in question. You should run a search for "tail separation plus both on-wing engines separation"

[GEC]

Don't forget Oklahoma City.

Read Jayna Davis's The Third Terrorist

[HighWheeler]

"nah, the engines just fell off by themselves ... happens all the time ... [/sarcasm]

Chicago, 1979. American 191. That's exactly what happened."

Well, that't not what happened. It was only one engine. There was a prima facia cause of the single engine separation due to a crack in the pylon caused by a poor maintenance procedure. At that point the plane was still able to RTA, but then this plane had a stall caused by loss of hydraulics in the damaged wing (and other things), which STILL could have been saved had the pilot not reduced speed.

But the verticle stab stayed with the plane.

[DoughtyOne]

Number one, the flight might have been taken down by terrorists
Number two, numerous terrorist groups frequently claim responsiblity for calamities to enhance their stature
Number three, taking this nut-job's word for this would be a very shallow thing to do
Number four, there was a time when I would have said 'time will tell' - after the travesty of TWA 800 I no longer say that

[HighWheeler]

"The failure in such an event would have been "Progressive Shear", where a single bolt (within a perpendicularly-orientated linear stress field) fails, transferring the total load to the remaining bolts, which in turn fail (one-by-one) as did the first failed bolt."

So, you think airplane tails are designed to go to catastrophic loss after a single point failure?

[Rome2000]

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Federal investigators said they are considering whether "wake turbulence" from another airplane may have played a role in the crash of a commercial jet that crashed Monday, scattering debris over a Queens neighborhood and claiming more than 260 lives.

The turbulence from a plane that took off shortly before American Airlines flight 587 could have been a factor in the crash, investigators said Tuesday. At least 262 people died when the aircraft went down while en route from John F. Kennedy International Airport to Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic. According to the jet's cockpit voice recorder, recovered from the crash site in Rockaway, a rattle emanates from the plane's mainframe before the jet is in the air two minutes, said National Transportation Safety Board Member George Black. Ten seconds later - when flight 587 has been aloft 114 seconds -- the pilot is heard commenting on encountering a "wake effect." The wake was from a Japan Airways Boeing 747 that had taken off minutes earlier, Black said.

Then, the recorder transmits the sound of a second rattle. At 127 seconds, there are comments suggesting loss of control in the aircraft, Black said.

One thing we can all be sure of.

Marion Blakey new head of the NTSB, doesn't know a tinkers damn about airplanes or investigating aircraft accidents.

This hack snake in the grass has absolutely no aviation experience, yet she goes in front of the cameras with her NTSB jacket on like she's some kind of expert and then states that there was "no evidence of terrorism".

This is exactly a lie, there is lots more evidence from eyewitness accounts and the unprecedented mid-air break up of the plane to suggest terrorism than there is to suggest mechanical failure.

The real NTSB investigators, in response to reporters questions, have repeatedly stated that they CANNOT RULE OUT TERRORISM.

The NTSB with her at it's head has lost all credibility.

It is never easy for the incoming head of the nation's lead safety agency, but Marion Blakey faces perhaps the toughest on-the-job training in the history of the National Transportation Safety Board.

A career Washington bureaucrat and lobbyist, Blakey was sworn in as the NTSB's chairwoman Sept. 26, barely 2 weeks after terrorists brought down four passenger jets.

Flight 587 was brought down by a shoe bomb, and the NTSB lied.

Those 262 civilized human beings deserve better than that.

They were victims of the terrorists, and should be recognized as such.

[Ciexyz]

Just like Flight 800.

[SunkenCiv]

Yeah, I have to agree. OTOH, I do wonder about TWA 800 -- not the Salinger B.S. -- and as no one claimed responsibility for that, either...

[Bobby777]

read my post I'm pointing you to

[Bobby777]

and there it is ...