Skip to comments.THE "New" CBS BUSH DOCUMENTS: Let's do some investigating
Posted on 09/08/2004 9:16:02 PM PDT by Howlin
These are the NEW documents "discovered" by CBS with conjunction with their Ben Barnes expose/confessional tonight regarding George Bush's National Guard service.
They've gotten some interesting comments on the Live Thread, so I thought I'd give them their own thread so you people out there with the knowledge can dissect them for their accuracy/truth/existence.
We had admin types in Korat, Thailand, 1972, 17 Wild Weasel Squadron.
Much of the evidence presented here is very compelling.
But, if (I assume that it is) the bottom signature is the true one, this is INDEED A FORGERY (assuming that no clerk signed it for the Colonel).
Good catch! (FR Investigators R You).
Guard and Reseve CO's are most always full time employees. They are technically civilians during the normal workweek, even though they wear AF or Army uniforms. During weekend drills they are reservists/guardsmen performing inactive duty training. Only one weekend a month is generally a "drill" weekend. (Sometimes they have "make up" weekends, once or twice a year)
Someone needs to go to the main library in downtown Houston and check Polk's City Directories (archives) for the years 1971 and 1972 re the Longmont address. Also check pertinent names while at it.
Looks like a pretty good match to the Times New Roman on the IBM Executive Fonts you posted.
Only problem is that the White House spokesman apparently agreed that the memos were genuine, but the interpretation of their content was incorrect.
The letters J - K - l and a are not the same
I just drove home and haven't seen the memo's, but two things jump out at me and I think they fit into your list, which I agree with.
No corrections and they appear to be proofread.
Everyone of us on this forum has expienced those problems along with spelliing errors.
Yes, I believe they would. ANG leadership positions are filled by full timers that (mostly) stay at the same base for decades. They are in fact as well as in effect, uniformed civilian bureaucrats. They are fighter pilots too of course, but the interpersonal dynamics are those of civilian bureaucrats.
Pete Yost of AP is claiming the White House released the memos.
Is the another Bush crowd boos and Bush did nothing about it?
He hasn't hung onto these for 30 years ... Killian died in 1984
Remember this is the Guard, most folks stay around for a long, long time. Still, they don't keep minutia from private and mostly unofficial files for multiple decades.
This is the tie breaker.
From the application for discharge.
Look at the "K" and the "ian"
Look carefully at the discrepancy in spacing between the "NDU" of MEMORANDUM from the forgery to the listed Times New Roman Font below in that post.
The forgery has tight spacing. The actual font shows a skip in spacing between the "D" and the "U" (you knew that I had to throw DU in here, right?!).
3 Full Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires
This is going to blow up BIG in CBS's face and demolish whatever credibility they had left. I can't believe they thought they would actually be able to get away with this.
You are so right. There are many differences: thickness of letters, slant, "sharpness" of letters, relative clearness of letters, and so on.
Plus the relative heights of the letters, and the "i" dots.
That's not true.
If the White House has released them, why wouldn't everybody have them?
Exactly! I swear AP is not even trying to have a semblance of truth anymore.
I mentioned earlier that the format for the letter wasn't the type that I have seen since I joined the USAF in 1981. You can see in the sample letter above that the signature block used to be left justified. Also, the old memos didn't have "MEMORANDUM" at the top in all caps. The USAF changed to the new style memo format around 1992- 1995 (to the best of my recollection). We changed to match other services, so there is a possibility that the MEMORANDUM style was used in 72 in the TXANG. FWIW
Of course, Im just a logistics weenie..maybe we have a Freeper with some USAF admin experience.
Compare any of "Bush's" memos to John Kerry's Transfer To Standby Reserve document, dated 14 August 1972 (Page 2).
John Kerry's document is dated 14 August 1972 (same time period), and has a fixed width Courier font.
Look at this:
A spokeswoman for "60 Minutes," Kelli Edwards, declined to say exactly how the new documents were obtained other than that CBS News understood they had been taken from Killian's "personal office file." In addition to the order to Bush to report for a physical, the documents include various memos from Killian describing his conversations with Bush and other National Guard officers about Bush's attempts to secure a transfer to Alabama. Killian died in 1984.
The new documents surfaced as the Bush administration released for the first time the president's personal flight logs, which have been the focus of repeated archival searches and Freedom of Information Act requests dating to the 2000 presidential campaign. The logs show that Bush stopped flying in April 1972 after accumulating more than 570 hours of flight time between 1969 and 1972, much of it on an F-102 interceptor jet.
White House officials have said there was no reason for Bush to take the annual physical required of fighter pilots because there were no suitable planes for him to fly in Alabama, where he applied for "substitute training" to replace his required service with the Texas National Guard.
Actually, dot-matrix and daisy wheel printers can have variations in character weights given that each letter is manually smashed onto the page through an ink and hammer method, just as a typewriter does.
I think those documents are not forgeries, because I recognize that typeface. They are not the type of document that would be even worth forging, in my opinion.
Didn't I read here tonight somewhere that what the documents state was standard operating procedure for people who didn't want to fly anymore?
This looks like nothing at all to me, except desperation on the part of that shameful man, John Kerry.
Thanks for the info. That fits with what I was thinking here. I just find it hard to believe that a military officer would be such a flawless typist.
One question for you, since you seem to know a bit on a lot of varied subjects. Was the term "CYA", as one memo mentions, a commonly used term back then? I never heard of the phrase until the 90s myself.
For the life of me, I cannot remember when or where I saw this, but I will throw it out.
A month or so ago, I saw a report on one of the networks about these "new" documents. I think (but not sure) Killian was portrayed as either a Bush friend or supporter (or maybe just a Republican). The report focused on Mrs. Killian and why she is releasing the documents after all of these years.
Mrs. Killian has an axe to grind and I cannot remember what it was. Did anyone else see this or have any background to add regarding Mrs. Killian?
BTTT and Bookmark.
Forget President Bush for a moment....wouldn't it be great if this could be the story that brought Rather down?
I vaguely remember there was an article about some people who perceived that they were insulted by the Bush family...not sent an invitation or something. I have no idea if this is the story you are referring to. I do remember that the supposed comment to these people was very unlike the Bush family.
I can't believe I survived those years.
Look what I found..........
A Review of President Bush's Book, A CHARGE TO KEEP
Hardcover - 17 November, 1999
Note the name of the person at the end of this review.
The political biography, complete with life-altering turning points and a political philosophy for leading the United States into greatness, has become obligatory for those running for president--just one more thing to check off the "to do" list on the way to the Oval Office. A Charge to Keep is George W. Bush's offering: a light and breezy book mixing personal and political remembrances that proves heavy on chatty anecdotes and light on policy prescriptions. If you read the last chapter you'll sort of learn where George W. stands on most things, but still not really discern how he would actually run the country. There are no revelations, either personal or political: Bush's wild side and youthful indiscretions, like stealing a Christmas wreath from a New Haven hotel for his Yale fraternity, are touched on lightly when he discusses them at all. A Charge to Keep is so upbeat and positive, in describing the Houston woman to whom he was engaged in college and from whom he "gradually drifted apart," Bush says simply: "I still think the world of her, and our parting was friendly. We were very young, we lived in different places, and we gradually developed different lives."
George W. has been labeled a lightweight by some; A Charge to Keep will do nothing to dispel that notion. It features lots of Bush family memories and numerous mentions of George W.'s famous parents, including letters from his president father. George W. has followed closely in his father's footsteps, attending the same prep school and college. He even belonged to the same secret society at Yale, Skull and Bones. From college it was on to flight school and the Texas Air National Guard, Harvard Business School, and then (again, like his father) the Texas oil business and politics. George W. seems mostly in sync with his father on policy issues as well. "A thousand points of light" is transformed slightly to become "compassionate conservative," which pops up in the final chapter more than 10 times. Readers will come away knowing many of the experiences and events that have helped shaped George W., but his future is still an open book. --Linda Killian
Hmmmm. Do you ever get the idea that there is a whole other world of intrigue and in-fighting that we don't know about?
seems to indicate that certain Selectric models had the ability to use more than one type ball simultaneously. Anyone know if they could use differently sized ones at once?
My post may be a false alarm--Linda may not be her name. More googling to do.
I agree with you, and cannot believe that any person familiar with writing copy before the age of PCs, ie professional 'reporters' as old as Dan Rather, would not instantly see the difference.
Let's check the PO Box ownership records for that time....
These are just too perfectly written...
They are still all monospaced fonts - a word consisting of 6 upper case "W"s will be exactly the same length as a word consisting of 6 lower case "l"s. Not so with a proportionally spaced font, which slides the characters together based on their width. That is an excellent bit of research to find those reference scans.
Re: my post #292
I still have not confirmed the name of the Merry Widow, but I happened upon some interesting info regarding something which may explain motive...
From Harris County Texas Probate Real Property Inquiry System
KILLIAN JERRY B EST
INTERNAL REVENUE SERV
KILLIAN JERRY B ETAL
INTERNAL REVENUE SERV
2 of several listed
Do those indicate liens on the estate property?
Someone may have already pointed this out, but I think it is worth carefully looking at the language in the memos. I have not read all of the memos, but someone said one of the memos uses the term "feedback". When did that cliche come into general use?