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Jewish settlers left strong imprint in the Rio Grande Valley
Brownsville Herald ^ | 12-7-05 | Travis M. Whitehead

Posted on 02/06/2005 6:34:55 AM PST by SJackson

ROMA, February 6, 2005 — Stone offerings in cemeteries and candles on Friday nights have been a tradition for some local families for generations.

Some of those traditions bear a lingering memory of the Sefardim — Jews who fled the Spanish Inquisition in the 15th and 16th centuries. Many settled in northern Mexico, practicing their religion in secret and changing their names to hide their heritage. Some even converted to Catholicism.

“Eventually, the Inquisition got all the way up here,” said Noel Benavides, a local historian. “Some of them didn’t relinquish their religion; some were executed if they didn’t accept the Catholic religion.”

Still, the Jewish customs and culture lived on, as did the bloodline, to become a part of the lifestyle here, he said.

Stuart Klein, owner of S. Klein Galleries in McAllen, said Jewish settlers were not an isolated bunch of peddlers. Klein, a member of Temple Emanuel, the synagogue in McAllen, has done extensive research into the history of Jews in Mexico. The Jewish migration was much larger than many people realize, he said, and began when Christopher Columbus set sail in 1492, landing in the Americas three months later. At least one of Columbus’ crewmembers was Jewish, he said. And when Hernan Cortes conquered the Aztecs, five of his officers were Jewish.

“These people had to get out of Europe,” said Klein, 72. “A lot of people went with the Spanish expeditions. Some were merchants, some were with the government, some in the military. A lot of these guys were very well-educated.”

George Gause, special collections librarian at the University of Texas Pan-American in Edinburg, said Jewish settlers played a significant though subtle role in the Rio Grande Valley’s culture. The flour tortilla, he said, may have originated from the Jews because of their use of unleavened bread. They also brought with them the practice of draining the blood from slaughtered animals.

But Rabbi Steven Rosenberg, of Temple Emanuel in McAllen, has a different take on the culinary history of the flour tortilla. Many of the Jews who settled in Mexico married into the local population and the Jewish heritage has become entwined in the Hispanic culture, he said, but the flour tortilla and the Jewish matzoh — unleavened bread — are completely different foods.

“We need to be careful about how we draw comparisons,” he said. “The unleavened bread has been part of Middle Eastern culture for 6,000 years.”


A presentation in September at the Mission Historical Museum shed some light on the history of the Jewish population that settled in Cerralvo, Monterrey and other Mexican communities, said Sam Ramos, chairman of the Starr County Historical Commission.

Miguel Bedolla and his sister-in-law, Elena Stoupignan, of Austin, gave the presentation. Bedolla, an economics and management professor at the University of Texas-San Antonio, also holds a master’s degree in history. He uses the study of genealogy to provide a better perspective of historic periods, he said, and he has published articles on the historical topics. Stoupignan has a degree in education, and she also gives cultural presentations and assists Bedolla in much of his research. Bedolla also makes presentations each year at the Pontifical University Regina Apostolorum in Rome.

Ramos said the Sefardim went to northern Mexico because it was isolated and they could live in relative peace, but they were not isolated from religious hatred, he said.

“In 1579, Luis Carvajal de la Cueva — he was a Portuguese Jew — he settled in Nuevo Leon, about 200 leagues from Tampico to the Pacific Coast,” Ramos said while reviewing his notes from the presentation. Carvajal had settled about 200 leagues of land between Tampico on the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific Coast of Mexico. A league is a measurement of three geographical miles.

Some points of the Carvajal story have become the subject of much debate. Klein attended part of the presentation by Bedolla and Stoupignan and found it interesting. However, he said that Luis Carvajal was one of Cortes’s officers and was awarded land from Tampico to what is now Eagle Pass and up to the Nueces River near Corpus Christi, Texas.

Klein said Carvajal established the capital of Nuevo Leon at Cerallvo, about 50 miles south of Roma. However, Bedolla said Carvajal founded the town of La Villa de San Luis on the site of present-day Monterrey. Klein could neither confirm nor deny this. Bedolla also said the entire family was taken to Mexico City by the Inquisition, which imprisoned the entire family on the charge of publicly practicing Catholicism while secretly practicing their Jewish faith.

The arrests stemmed from an incident years before, in Spain, Bedolla said. It seems Carvajal’s entire family had converted to Catholicism while still in Spain. However, Bedolla pointed out that, although this was during the time of the Inquisition, the Carvajals were not forced to become Catholic.

“The Inquisition only had authority over Catholics,” Bedolla said. “The Inquisition could not force anyone to become Catholic. But once you were Catholic you had to stay Catholic.”

Klein said regardless of what the Inquisition had the power to do, it was administered by people who “went after anybody.”

“They went after Jews and Indians,” he said. “They thought they could out there. In every government, when they are out on their own, how do you know what they did?”

Luis Carvajal, he said, had converted to Catholicism in Spain of his own accord.

“He was really Catholic in good faith,” Bedolla said. “One evening, they were sitting down to dinner and he said the blessing. ‘In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.’ One of his nieces said, ‘Do not say that prayer, because the Messiah hasn’t come.’ He did not correct her for saying that.”

Luis Carvajal did not correct the niece, and that was the reason many years later the family was taken from La Villa de San Luis to Mexico City and imprisoned by the Inquisition. There they were to be tried by the Tribunal de la Santa Inquisición, Tribunal of the Holy Inquisition.

Klein said it’s hard to know for sure what was said or what really happened at the dinner table that night so long ago, but most Jews who converted to Catholicism were forced to do so under threat of their lives.

Bedolla said every member of Carvajal’s family was tried independently by the Inquisition. Luis Carvajal died in prison, apparently of natural causes, before the Inquisition made a final decision on his case. Bedolla does not know what became of the rest of his family, except for a nephew, who was also named Luis Carvajal.

As soon as the younger Luis Carvajal found out the family was really Jewish, he circumcised himself and began practicing the faith. He was executed by the Inquisition for being Catholic and practicing the Jewish faith.

“He was the only one (Carvajal) burnt at the stake,” Bedolla said.

After the Carvajals were forced to leave La Villa de San Luis and were taken to Mexico City to be tried, the town of La Villa de San Luis was abandoned, Bedolla said.

Only a few short years later, in 1596, the city of Monterrey, in the state of Nuevo Leon, was established on the same spot.


The Jewish settlers who spread into Coahuila established new settlements, one of which was Santa Rosa, Ramos said. Some of the founders of this new settlement, now called Muzquiz, were descendants of a 13th-century rabbi named Salomon Halavi, of Burgos, Spain, Bedolla said.

Halavi, Bedolla said, had been a faithful student of the teachings of a 12th-century Jewish philosopher and physician named Maimonides. However, he converted to Catholicism after reading the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas, a 13th-century philosopher and doctor of the church, Bedolla said.

After Halavi’s conversion, he changed his name to Pablo de Santa Maria. Bedolla said that after his descendents settled in northern Mexico, they changed their surname to Rodriguez de Maluenda. Many of his descendants eventually spread into the Rio Grande Valley and bear the names Saenz, Falcon, Gonzalez, Galan and Castro. Bedolla said he is a descendent of Salomon Halavi.

Rosenberg said he had heard of Halavi, but he has never heard about a conversion, or of Halavi’s descendents founding Santa Rosa.

“There’s no way you could even verify that,” Rosenberg said. “That is probably more of a story than anything else.”

When Spanish explorer Jose de Escandon established Reynosa, Camargo, and other settlements along the Rio Grande in the late 1700s, the Spanish official who inventoried the area and its settlers found they had plenty of horses, cattle and goats, but no pigs, Benavides said. The Jewish faith forbids the consumption of pork.


Stoupignan, of Austin, was born and raised in Monterrey and claims descendance from the Jewish settlers of northern Mexico. She grew up with many of the customs without knowing where they came from, she said.

“Every Friday night we got together for dinner and lit candles,” she recalls. “We usually closed the curtains because we didn’t want anybody to see what we were eating.”

Stoupignan believes the original motive for the secrecy, going back several generations, would have been to keep people from discovering they were Jewish, but long after the family forgot the initial reason, the practice continued. She also grew up believing that pork was bad for her, not knowing that abstinence from pork had come from her Jewish ancestry.

She and Bedolla agree that the custom of lighting candles on Friday nights came from their Jewish ancestors.

“A lot of people, when they heard that (at the presentation), we all shook our heads,” Ramos said. “A lot of our ancestors did that. Some of the foods, when you kill a chicken by cutting off the head, you bleed it out. That’s very Jewish.”

Rosenberg said that, in the Jewish faith, animals must be killed as humanely as possible. The blood must be drained from the animal because Judaism forbids the consumption of blood. He said the consumption of pork is forbidden because an animal used for food must have a cloven hoof and chew its cud. Chickens are considered kosher.

The Jews in Spain and Mexico who converted to Catholicism became known as Conversos, Rosenburg said. They often continued to practice their Jewish faith in secret, always fearful of being discovered. Through the generations, Anusim – descendents of Conversos — maintained some of their Jewish identity.

One of their customs was the lighting of the shabbat, or Sabbath candles, each Friday at sunset. While the origin of this custom became lost to memory in the Hispanic community, certain material possessions were a closely guarded secret, Rosenberg said. A number of Hispanics have come to him trying to identify garments the family had kept for generations. Some of them have turned out to be tallits (prayer shawls) and kippahs (head coverings). Some families even had old Hebrew bibles.

“They were told never to talk to anybody about this,” he said.

Benavides, too, believes he may have some Jewish ancestry.

“The story goes that when my grandparents celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary here in Roma, my aunts came up with two beautiful candelabra at the end of the table,” he said. “I asked where it came from, and they said it had been in the family for many years. The candelabra had seven candles and little Stars of David on the base.”

Neither his aunts nor his grandparents knew anything about any Jewish heritage in the family, Benavides said, but few of the old families in Starr County know for certain of any possible Jewish background. There are only the faint whisperings, speculation, stories, and the enduring culture.

“The customs stayed here,” Benavides said. “That’s why we have some original dishes such as cabrito (baby goat), flour tortillas, albóndigas, which are like meatballs. My grandmother used to make them. They would drop the meatball into the soup and it was very, very tasty. Now we make albóndigas out of anything, tuna, salmon.”

Rosenberg was not familiar with albóndigas, but he did say there’s a Jewish dish from Eastern Europe in which matzoh balls were boiled and placed into chicken soup. Rosenberg said he could not confirm or deny whether cabrito had its origins in Jewish culture.

“I think they might be likening that to ancient Hebrews who were shepherds,” he said. “Many of these stories are apocryphal (legend). Legends have some basis in fact …

“A lot of people who find out about their Jewish heritage try to grasp anything they can to give them some kind of connection,” he said. “A lot of them haven’t had the benefit of being in a larger Jewish community.”

Some genetic testing has been done in Mexico and South America, and results show many Mexican people - and those of Mexican background - have some Jewish ancestry. Rosenberg said many members of the first synagogue in what later became the United States were Sephardic Jews.

Bedolla said one Valley resident pointed out that, while some area Hispanics may indeed have Jewish heritage, that does not necessarily make them Jews. Rather, the Jewish heritage has become part of the Mestizo culture. While a large number of Jews settled in Guerrero Viejo, Tamaulipas, many of them married into the local Indian population and other cultural groups.

But the Jewish influence does linger, even beyond the grave. While strolling through the Roma cemetery recently, Benavides picked up several stones placed on grave markers.

“I see so many stones in this place,” he said. “When it comes to All Saints Day, they have families and loved ones here. People who haven’t been here in years come back to Roma. They say a prayer and lay a stone. The only other place I have seen that is Jewish cemeteries.”

Rosenberg confirmed this as a very strong Jewish influence.

“The Jews don’t believe in flowers at gravesites because they wither and die,” Rosenberg said. “A rock is a lasting sign. The tradition of putting rocks on gravesites goes back to Biblical times. When someone died, the body was buried in a cave and covered with rocks. It grew into a symbol of putting a rock on top of the grave, as a sign of respect.”

Even today, when a Jewish person dies, people are asked to donate money to charity instead of sending flowers, he said. It helps more people that way.

Rosenberg said he has seen a surprisingly large number of Hispanics rediscovering their Jewish heritage; many have left Christianity to convert to Judaism.

“More and more people who have Jewish roots are beginning to find them,” he said. “I find it fascinating that a part of the Jewish culture and religion that was lost at one time is starting to be reclaimed.”

Raul Montemayor is one of those who has returned to his Jewish roots. Montemayor, 55, has lived in McAllen for about 20 years. Originally from Monterrey, he said he is descended from some of the original Jewish settlers of Nuevo Leon.

“It’s a painful history,” he said. “My family was not religious. I never thought like a Christian. I was just in limbo.”

While the Anusim maintained some characteristics of their Jewish heritage, there’s another name for those who come full circle.

“The ones that return to full Jewish practice are called Baal Teshuva," he said. “One who returns.”

TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: archaeology; decalogue; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; loslunas; tencommandments
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 02/06/2005 6:34:55 AM PST by SJackson
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.
2 posted on 02/06/2005 6:38:32 AM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: SJackson


3 posted on 02/06/2005 6:38:32 AM PST by Ff--150 (It Works!)
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To: SJackson

I have yet to read one of your posts where I did'nt learn something new! Thanks.

4 posted on 02/06/2005 6:41:04 AM PST by SirLurkedalot (I'm back...with NEW and IMPROVED knuckle-dragging action.)
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To: SJackson


5 posted on 02/06/2005 6:45:16 AM PST by satchmodog9 (Murder and weather are our only news)
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To: SJackson

This is very intresting. One branch of my mothers family that settled in Texas in the 1820's was named Issack. They didn't come from Mexico but came the other route across the southern US. I have been asked many times if they were Jewish but I have no knowledge that they were.

6 posted on 02/06/2005 6:58:21 AM PST by Ditter
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To: SJackson

Interesting read !

7 posted on 02/06/2005 7:02:15 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

It is interesting. Most every old West Texas ranching family has some Jewish ancestors (myself included). We have prayer shawls, menorahs, the whole bit . . all locked away in the attic, alas.

Also, Galveston was a major Jewish immigration location, further bringing in influence.

8 posted on 02/06/2005 7:22:51 AM PST by MeanWestTexan
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To: SJackson

Very interesting, indeed, and I must confess that since I love Mexican food, the discussion on that was particularly intriguing.:)

9 posted on 02/06/2005 7:26:35 AM PST by xJones
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To: MeanWestTexan

There's a large crypto-Jewish community in New Mexico. There have been lots of article about them recently.

10 posted on 02/06/2005 7:28:35 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Professional Engineer


11 posted on 02/06/2005 7:50:59 AM PST by msdrby (Freedom, by its nature, must be chosen and defended by its citizens.)
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To: SJackson

This is a facinating piece of northern Mexican and southwestern American history. Thanks for the posting.

12 posted on 02/06/2005 7:57:57 AM PST by Clintonfatigued
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To: msdrby


13 posted on 02/06/2005 7:58:24 AM PST by Professional Engineer (I finally have an organ donor oven. ;-))
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To: 1bigdictator; 1st-P-In-The-Pod; 2sheep; A Jovial Cad; A_Conservative_in_Cambridge; a_witness; ...
Jews in the Wild West

FRmail me to be added or removed from this Judaic/pro-Israel ping list.

WARNING: This is a high volume ping list

14 posted on 02/06/2005 8:23:19 AM PST by Alouette (Learned Mother of Zion)
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To: SJackson
Thank you for posting this. Some thoughts. More than likely, Nuevo Leon or New Lion, is a reference to the Lion Of Judah. Benavidas is probably Hebraic in origin as are many names which begin with 'ben' or 'son of'.

Recall that not only Columbus and Cortez had Jewish officers, Magellan and others did as well. Finally, is it a coincidence that Columbus set sail in 1492 the same year as the first Spanish Inquisition? Will Durant wrote of this 75 years ago.

15 posted on 02/06/2005 8:46:37 AM PST by masadaman
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To: blam


16 posted on 02/06/2005 8:48:39 AM PST by Slicksadick (Go out on a limb........Its where the fruit is.)
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To: SJackson
Very interesting. I know Mexico City has a large population of Jews, but it never occurred to me that we had such early immigrants.

I have to wonder how a guy like Ward Churchill would treat this information.

A slight correction: an animal used for food must NOT have a cloven hoof

17 posted on 02/06/2005 8:55:51 AM PST by GVnana (If I had a Buckhead moment would I know it?)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
There is a whole field of study in this area. The most interesting article pointed to traces of Ladino . Ladino is an almost extinct Jewish Patios dialect . It is the sephardic version of Yiddish.
There are a range of people with ties to the Jewish Community.
18 posted on 02/06/2005 8:59:29 AM PST by Marano NYC
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To: GVgirl

You had a whoopsie. An animal must have a cloven hoof AND chew its cud- like sheeps, cows but not pigs or rabbits.

interesting post.

19 posted on 02/06/2005 9:08:11 AM PST by tkas (Conservative mom)
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To: tkas

And earlier this week I mistook the word African for
American. Man! I either need new glasses or brain pills.

20 posted on 02/06/2005 9:14:49 AM PST by GVnana (If I had a Buckhead moment would I know it?)
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To: SJackson

Yet another reminder of how deep the Christian and Jewish influence is ingrained in this nation, and how alien Islam is from our history and values. Let's pray we keep it uninfected by Islam.

21 posted on 02/06/2005 9:20:03 AM PST by montag813
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To: SJackson
When someone died, the body was buried in a cave and covered with rocks

Lazarus comes to mind.

22 posted on 02/06/2005 9:20:46 AM PST by montag813
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To: SJackson


23 posted on 02/06/2005 9:25:32 AM PST by dennisw (Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”)
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To: SJackson

You are remarkable. I don't know how you are able to find all of these.

Thank you for your hard work.

24 posted on 02/06/2005 9:52:20 AM PST by Naomi4
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To: SJackson

That is so fascinating. I am waiting to discover that cajuns are jews. I swwear, after having lived on the east coast for thirty years and known jews very well, the similarities are astonishing. Jewish women and cajun women are like sisters. The mothering, the humor, the persona of the cajun woman is so very jewish. I have been saying this for ten years. I have a cajun brother in law who is more jewish than anyone I have ever known and his family are pure cajuns back to when they migrated here.

Has any research been done on this? If not, someone ought to. I think the acadians might have been expelled from france because they werre jews.

25 posted on 02/06/2005 10:04:10 AM PST by cajungirl (do)
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To: MeanWestTexan; SJackson
.....Most every old West Texas ranching family has some Jewish ancestors (myself included).....

It's about the same where I live in South Texas. I have a Jewish great grandfather on my mothers side of the family. There were several Jewish ranchers in this area at one time.
(That's right. Jewish cowboys. There is such a thing in case anybody has ever wondered about it.)

26 posted on 02/06/2005 10:14:11 AM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: cajungirl
The Louisiana Cajuns (Acadians) are descended from people who lived in Nova Scotia (which the French called Acadia). Reportedly they are descended from a few score families who settled the area in the mid-1600s, coming from the west coast of France.

The French who settled in Quebec were from the north of France, particularly Normandy. (John Keegan in his book Fields of Battle comments on how the French Canadians of Quebec remind him of the French of Normandy.)

When the French ceded Acadia to Britain in 1713 there were only 1700 Acadians. Their numbers had increased by 1755 when 6,000 Acadians who refused to take the oath of allegiance to Britain were deported--some of these later managed to return.

The policy of the French government was to allow only Catholics to settle in the colonies. I don't know if there were any Jews who were openly identified as such living in France in the mid-17th century when Acadia was settled...undoubtedly there were some Frenchmen with long-forgotten Jewish ancestors.

27 posted on 02/06/2005 10:37:06 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: cajungirl
s any research been done on this? If not, someone ought to. I think the acadians might have been expelled from france because they werre jews.

I'd guess that if the acadians were Jewish, we'd have heard about it. There were Jewish traders in Louisiana in the late 17th early 18th century though. Enough of them that the King of France had them expelled. I understand the edict wasn't really enforced.


Louis, by the Grace of God, King of France and of Navarre, to all present and to come, greeting. The Directors of the Company of the Indies having represented to us that the Province and colony of Louisiana is considerably established, by a large number of our subjects, who use slaves for the cultivation of the lands. ...

ARTICLE I orders that the edict of 1615 be applied to Louisiana, and that all Jews who may have established their religion there be expelled within three months, under penalty of confiscation of body and property.

Continued at link, deals largely with slavery.

28 posted on 02/06/2005 11:15:04 AM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: Slicksadick; SunkenCiv
Very Interesting.

Anthropology, qualifies for a:

GGG Ping.

29 posted on 02/06/2005 12:31:34 PM PST by blam
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To: SJackson

Thanks! Interesting. My family was here before the La Purchase so I guess we may really be French. Of course the Spanish owned us for a while so who knows.

30 posted on 02/06/2005 2:49:06 PM PST by cajungirl (do)
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To: blam
Blam, didn't you have an old post about ancient Hebrew inscriptions in New Mexico? Seeing this thread made me think of that.
31 posted on 02/06/2005 2:51:20 PM PST by Slicksadick (Go out on a limb........Its where the fruit is.)
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To: Slicksadick
I don't remember but, I did find this:

Los Lunas Inscription Of New Mexico

This is probably what you're talking about.

32 posted on 02/06/2005 2:59:44 PM PST by blam
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To: Slicksadick
Then there's this:

Who Really Discovered America?

"Did ancient Hebrews reach the shores of the North and South American continents thousands of years before Christopher Columbus? What evidence is there for Hebrew and Israelite occupation of the Western Hemisphere even a thousand years before the Messiah? Was trans-Atlantic commerce and travel fairly routine in the days of king Solomon of Israel? Read here the intriguing, fascinating saga of the TRUE DISCOVERERS OF AMERICA!"

33 posted on 02/06/2005 3:03:07 PM PST by blam
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To: masadaman

Columbus had just about given up (so the story goes) on getting Spanish support for his voyage west to reach the east idea, when he was summoned to court and told he had his money. The Reconquista had finally been completed (old reckoning Jan 2, 1492), meaning that the Moors were finally driven out of Iberia, and Ferdie and Izzy had some room in the budget.

There's a persistent story that Columbus was Jewish (can be seen in the fun paperback "The Jewish Connection"), or that his parents had converted to Christianity while retaining some Jewish beliefs here and there, passed down to Columbus. I'm 99 per cent that isn't true.

Columbus did travel to Iceland to gather information about the pre-Little Ice Age Norse voyages to the lands west, which Columbus presumed were Asia or parts thereof.

34 posted on 02/06/2005 9:21:42 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Ted "Kids, I Sunk the Honey" Kennedy is just a drunk who's never held a job (or had to).)
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To: SJackson

perhaps this is apropos here...

The Old West - Camels in the West


35 posted on 02/06/2005 9:24:00 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Ted "Kids, I Sunk the Honey" Kennedy is just a drunk who's never held a job (or had to).)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; SunkenCiv; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 4ConservativeJustices; ...
Thanks Blam.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

36 posted on 02/07/2005 12:35:33 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Ted "Kids, I Sunk the Honey" Kennedy is just a drunk who's never held a job (or had to).)
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To: MeanWestTexan

Texas has been pretty good to the Jews. Even LBJ had a secret operation sneaking Jews into Texas when Washington was turning them back to Nazi Germany.

37 posted on 02/07/2005 12:51:10 PM PST by Guvmint_Cheese (Beware of virgin porcupines bearing antichrists...)
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To: SJackson
Somebody PING Kinky Friedman.


38 posted on 02/07/2005 3:38:00 PM PST by Servant of the 9 (Trust Me)
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To: blam

That page on the Hebrew inscriptions is potentially very interesting, if it has been credibly confirmed.

39 posted on 02/07/2005 5:16:23 PM PST by dsc
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To: dsc
Gene Savoy

"Near the end of the 1989 Gran Vilaya expedition, Savoy and his team of intrepid explorers came upon a set of inscribed tablets on the outskirts of the city, hidden away high in a cliffside cave. Among the many inscriptions contained on these large dolmen-type tablets was a symbol similar to the one used by King Solomon to mark the ships he sent to the land of Ophir to recover gold and precious stones for his temple in Jerusalem. Other symbols in the inscriptions appeared to be of proto-Sinaitic origin as well. So it is that Savoy is now engaged in a seven-year voyage to document links between the high civilizations of ancient times on the seven continents and to determine the true location of the biblical land of Ophir."

I find this possibility intriguing. May explain the Chachapoyas.(?)

40 posted on 02/07/2005 5:56:30 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

"Then, in 1985, he made a startling announcement to the world: the discovery in Amazonas of a vast ancient metropolis that may prove to be not only the largest pre-Columbian city in South America, but also one of the largest and most unique ancient cities yet discovered in the history of archaeology."

I can understand how I missed this the first time around; I was awfully busy riding a guided-missile destroyer here and there in 1985.

I'm surprised, though, that I never heard of it in succeeding years.

Down toward the bottom of that page, Savoy starts looking an awful lot like...well, an oddball.

Are his discoveries on the up and up? Peer reviewed and all that?

41 posted on 02/07/2005 6:09:11 PM PST by dsc
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To: Marano NYC; rmlew

Let's also not forget that a large portion of the Polish nobility, perhaps a majority, had Jewish lineage. It was common practice for socially prominent Jews in Poland to convert in order to intermarry into the elite.

42 posted on 02/07/2005 6:11:58 PM PST by Clemenza (Are you going to bark all day, little doggie, or are you going to bite?)
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To: Fiddlstix; Cacique

There were also Jewish "gauchos" in Argentina. The first wave of Jewish immigrants to that country were part of a resettlement program which brought them out to the Pampas.

43 posted on 02/07/2005 6:13:56 PM PST by Clemenza (Are you going to bark all day, little doggie, or are you going to bite?)
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To: dennisw; SJackson

44 posted on 02/07/2005 6:24:24 PM PST by wardaddy (I don't think Muslims are good for America....just a gut instinct thing.)
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To: dsc
You probably didn't hear about this one then. Sean Savoy is Gene's son.

Ancient city found in remote Peru jungle

Walled complex may have been home to 10,000 people

By Marco Aquino
Updated: 9:45 p.m. ET Aug. 17, 2004

LIMA, Peru - An ancient walled city complex inhabited some 1,300 years ago by a culture later conquered by the Incas has been discovered deep in Peru's Amazon jungle, explorers said on Tuesday.

U.S. and Peruvian explorers uncovered the city, which may have been home to up to 10,000 people, after a month trekking in Peru's northern rain forest and following up on years of investigation about a possible lost metropolis in the region.

The stone city, made up of five citadels at 9,186 feet (2,800 meters) above sea level, stretches over around 39 square miles (100 square kilometers) and contains walls covered in carvings and figure paintings, exploration leader Sean Savoy told Reuters.

"It is a tremendous city ... containing areas with stone etchings and 10-meter (33-foot) high walls," said Savoy, who had to hack through trees and thick foliage to finally reach the site on Aug. 15.

Covered in matted tree branches and interspersed with lakes and waterfalls, the settlement sites also contain well-preserved graveyards with mummies with teeth "in almost perfect condition," Savoy said.

Replete with stone agricultural terraces and water canals, the city complex is thought to have been home to the little-known Chachapoyas culture.

According to early accounts by Spanish conquistadors who arrived in Peru in the early 1500s, the Chachapoyas were a fair-skinned warrior tribe famous for their tall stature. Today they are known for the giant burial coffins sculpted into human figures found in the northern jungle region.

Savoy said his team also found an Inca settlement within the city complex that could prove theories the Chachapoyas were conquered by the Incas, who ruled an area stretching from Ecuador to northern Chile between 1300 and 1500.

Savoy, a Peruvian-American, accompanied on the expedition by his U.S. father, Gene Savoy, named the site Gran Saposoa after the nearby village Saposoa and his team has already mapped the area with preliminary drawings.

The discovery is the third notable ruin Gene Savoy has helped uncover in Peru. In 1964, Savoy found the site of the Incas' last refuge in the Cuzco region of southern Peru. A year later he took part in the discovery of the sacred city of Gran Pajaten in northern Peru.

American Hiram Bingham made Peru's most famous archeological discovery -- the fabled Inca ruins of Machu Picchu near Cuzco -- in 1911. Machu Picchu today attracts almost half a million tourists every year and is South America's best known archeological site.

45 posted on 02/07/2005 9:12:37 PM PST by blam
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To: dsc
"Are his discoveries on the up and up? Peer reviewed and all that?"

I think his discoveries are real...I worry about his interpertations, etc.

46 posted on 02/07/2005 9:14:00 PM PST by blam
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
Gods, Graves, Glyphs PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

47 posted on 05/14/2006 4:09:34 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (
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To: SJackson

"Oy, oy, oy-oy...canta y no llores..."

48 posted on 05/14/2006 4:12:29 PM PDT by RichInOC (...I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I just couldn't resist.)
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To: Verginius Rufus

I am also of Cajun descent and have done extensive geneological research sometimes reaching back to the year 800. We always said that we thought we had black and maybe Jewish in us. My Jewish, Mexican husband jokes that I am more Jewish than any official Jewish woman....A genetics test only confirmed these two things to be true- Moroccan and Jewish, among other things. Then, having dug further I find that a part of my Cajun family had Jewish/German names from very Jewish places in Alsace, France. Likewise, a majority of first ACADIANS came from La Rochelle, France- which had long housed Jews, or Jewish converts to Catholicism. Lastly, I have researched DNA testing for MAJOR ACADIAN/CAJUN names and several have anusim/Middle Eastern genetic markers....So, Cajuns can be Jewish, too. As my mother says, though- If you go back far enough, many of us supposed “white” people are Jewish and African...

49 posted on 05/20/2010 8:26:28 PM PDT by strawberry7
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To: strawberry7
Gregory of Tours in his 6th-century History of the Franks mentions one of the Merovingian kings forcing a considerable number of Jews to convert to Christianity. Between that and other cases of voluntary or involuntary conversion, my guess would be that no modern French person could say for sure that he or she has no Jewish ancestors--and the situation is probably not much different in most other European countries. Since genealogical records are so incomplete, DNA may be the only evidence that might be able to prove the Jewish ancestry.
50 posted on 05/28/2010 3:14:50 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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