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2 'No' Votes in Europe: The Anger Spreads
NY Times ^ | June 2, 2005 | RICHARD BERNSTEIN

Posted on 06/02/2005 2:24:29 PM PDT by neverdem

BERLIN, June 1 - Some are calling it a divorce; others, a disenchantment. Whatever you call it, the French "non" on Sunday and the Dutch "nee" on Wednesday have clearly left the European Union's proposed constitution a dead letter for now, frustrating the efforts of Europe's leaders to move to the next stage of integration.

The impasse could stall efforts to develop common foreign policies and push the euro, a potent symbol of unification, into a downward spiral.

But there is something at stake here far broader than the constitution itself, which the Dutch rejected emphatically on Wednesday, 61.6 percent to 38.4 percent, according to unofficial results.

There is a disaffection, perhaps even a rebellion, against the political elites in France, Germany and Italy.

The governing parties of the left and the right are saying the same things to their people: that painful, free-market economic reforms are the only path toward rejuvenation, more jobs, better futures. And the people, who have come to equate the idea of an expanded Europe with a challenge to cradle-to-grave social protections, are giving the same answer: We don't believe you.

A French lawyer and commentator, Nicolas Baverez, who once wrote a book titled "The Fall of France," called the French vote "an insurrection, a democratic intifada," that reflected the "despair and fears of the French in front of the decline of their country and the inability of their leaders to cope with the crisis."

The repercussions of this uprising will be felt widely.

"I think there's a revolt against the establishment that leaves governments from Great Britain to France to Germany to Italy singularly weak," said Charles Kupchan...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Germany; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: constitutions; euconstitution; europeanunion; france; netherlands; referendums
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You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's time to buy a clue.
1 posted on 06/02/2005 2:24:30 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Those countries (and Europe as a whole) desperately needs a Reagan or a Thatcher to straighten out the mess. Instead, they've got Ted Kennedys and Sheila Jackson Lees.


2 posted on 06/02/2005 2:27:11 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

"Europe as a whole) desperately needs a Reagan or a Thatcher to straighten out the mess."

Absolutely. Somebody needs to make the point that in most (if not all) of the countries that have ratified the treaty, the voters were never given the choice.


3 posted on 06/02/2005 2:32:50 PM PDT by Betaille (Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries)
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To: Betaille
Somebody needs to make the point that in most (if not all) of the countries that have ratified the treaty, the voters were never given the choice.

I don't believe the voters in the 13 colonies were given a choice in ratifying the U.S. Constitution, either. Admittedly, there were some mitigating circumstances: no television, no internet, no electricity, etc., which would have made this rather difficult.

4 posted on 06/02/2005 3:15:22 PM PDT by nosofar
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To: nosofar

In that case it was probably done out of necessity and practicality. In this case there haven't been referendums because they fear that the referendums wouldn't give the desired result... and that IS undemocratic.


5 posted on 06/02/2005 3:17:00 PM PDT by Betaille (Capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries)
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To: neverdem

Thanks for posting. Excuse me, I have to go sell Euros and buy Dollars.


6 posted on 06/02/2005 3:18:59 PM PDT by groanup (my other car is an ICBM)
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To: Spktyr

Ted Kennedy and Sheila Jackson-Lee would be considered "centre-right" in Europe.


7 posted on 06/02/2005 3:21:07 PM PDT by wimpycat (Hyperbole is the opium of the activist wacko.)
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To: wimpycat

You are unfortunately correct - doesn't change the fact that they need a Reagan or Thatcher. They're hitting their "general malaise and stagflation" stage, hard. They need a Reagan or Thatcher more than we did.

The only problem is that it looks like they ran off all the possible candidates for that role years ago.


8 posted on 06/02/2005 3:25:50 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: neverdem
So the message that the MSM is adopting is that the EU constitution was rejected because it wasn't socialist enough.

Ergo, the solution is to make it more socialist.

Their agenda is so obvious.

9 posted on 06/02/2005 3:28:41 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Spktyr

I agree with you. However, I have faith in the Europeans' ability to sacrifice practicality, decisiveness, individual freedoms, optimism and cojones for the sake of a creative, 'nuanced', deep "idea" that ignores reality.


10 posted on 06/02/2005 3:29:36 PM PDT by wimpycat (Hyperbole is the opium of the activist wacko.)
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To: Spktyr
Although there is no great conservative leader in Europe right now, there is Ireland, Poland, Estonia to show them how fast a free market low tax oriented economy can grow. Britain has come back from a mess in the 1970's to the most prosperous big European state under Thatcherite economics. It's right in front of them if they will allow themselves to see.
11 posted on 06/02/2005 3:30:31 PM PDT by colorado tanker (The People Have Spoken)
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To: neverdem

Aren't they all using the Euro now instead of their respective countries currency?


12 posted on 06/02/2005 3:30:58 PM PDT by Recall
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To: colorado tanker

I agree, but they will not allow themselves to admit that the old ideas aren't working. They're trying to tax and spend themselves out of the hole that they dug by massive taxing and spending.

The first step of getting out of a hole is "stop digging." Most of Old Europe appears to be ordering steamshovels to help them dig.


13 posted on 06/02/2005 3:33:36 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Betaille

X ACT LEE!


14 posted on 06/02/2005 3:36:55 PM PDT by TomasUSMC (FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.)
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To: Recall

Yes, though that has problems of its own...


15 posted on 06/02/2005 3:37:08 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr
Schroeder seems to want to try to win his election spewing more anti-American rhetoric. Fool me once, shame on me . . . . Yep, first rule of holes applies to the weasels.
16 posted on 06/02/2005 3:38:09 PM PDT by colorado tanker (The People Have Spoken)
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To: Recall
Aren't they all using the Euro now instead of their respective countries currency?

http://marketwatch.nytimes.com/custom/nyt-com/html-currencies.asp

No. Scroll down until you see "Currency Converter". Open up where you see "United Kingdom Pound", and click to see what Eurpoean countries retained their national currencies.

17 posted on 06/02/2005 3:57:37 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: nosofar

The US Constitution was ratified by each of the thirteen states, each of which held a convention of elected delegates.


18 posted on 06/02/2005 4:21:29 PM PDT by GrannyML
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To: wimpycat
I have faith in the Europeans' ability to sacrifice practicality, decisiveness, individual freedoms, optimism and cojones for the sake of a creative, 'nuanced', deep "idea" that ignores reality.

Your faith is not misplaced. Check out the comments here: http://crookedtimber.org/2005/05/31/the-sheer-gaul-of-them

19 posted on 06/02/2005 4:24:23 PM PDT by Fenris6 (3 Purple Hearts in 4 months w/o missing a day of work? He's either John Rambo or a Fraud)
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To: nosofar
I don't believe the voters in the 13 colonies were given a choice in ratifying the U.S. Constitution, either.

BS. The voters in the 13 sovereign states elected delegates to attend the Constitution Convention and they had their say.
20 posted on 06/02/2005 6:02:42 PM PDT by wasp69 ("You're done, Rather! No more 'Divine Right of Kings'!" - Oliver "Buckhead" Cromwell (sorta)
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