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Two men shot in York, PA (store clerk shoots would-be robber)
York Daily Record ^ | September 27, 2005 | MICHELE CANTY

Posted on 09/28/2005 5:14:40 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo

Police said the men were shot during a robbery attempt at a store.

A store owner and one of three men who tried to rob his shop were shot Monday afternoon, according to York City Police.

Both the store owner and the suspect were treated at York Hospital Monday night. The business owner, Kevin Patrick Winter, was doing well, police said. The other man was in the intensive care unit late Monday night.

The shootings occurred at Kendal's Grocery and Jamaican Cuisine in the 600 block of East Market Street.

Shortly after 4 p.m., three men went into the store and tried to rob Winter. When he wouldn't comply, one of the men shot him once in the hip, said York County Chief Deputy Prosecutor Bill Graff.

A part-time store clerk, Steven Gray, fired several shots from a .45-caliber handgun, hitting one of the men, police said. The robbers ran out of the store.

Witnesses said they heard the shots and saw Winter lying in the store's doorway, bleeding. A man they described as his friend tried to keep Winter from passing out as they waited for help to arrive.

Within minutes, an ambulance came and took Winter to the hospital.

The uninjured robbers helped their hurt accomplice into a car and left, witnesses said. They sped past two city officers, Travis Sowers and Matthew Leitzel, who followed them to the hospital. The officers arrested the uninjured men while the third was treated in the emergency room, police said.

That man was shot four times — twice in the stomach and twice in the arm — the prosecutor said.

At the store, police blocked off the area out front, spreading yellow police tape from one side of the street to the other. A fire policeman diverted East Market Street's heavy, rush-hour traffic to an alternate way out of the city.

People who live on the street stood along the police tape watching officers work.

"It's a shame that people are out here shooting in broad daylight," one woman said. She shook her head as she walked up the street toward her apartment.

Police filed charges against two men Monday night, but court documents detailing the offenses weren't available. The man in the hospital was to be charged once he was moved from the intensive care unit, authorities said.

Charges include robbery, aggravated assault and attempted homicide. Gray won't be charged, Graff said.

"He didn't commit a crime. He defended himself," Graff said. Gray had a license to carry the gun, which was properly registered, he said.

As late as 9:30 p.m., investigators were still at the small store, sorting through bullet fragments and shell casings and processing other evidence, Graff said.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: armedcitizen; banglist
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1 posted on 09/28/2005 5:14:41 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: NRA2BFree; Grannyx4; wardaddy; Squantos; Eaker; Ladysmith; .38sw; .45MAN; 230FMJ; ...

***Armed Citizen Pinglist***

FRmail me if you want on/off this list

Armed Citizen Thread Archive

2 posted on 09/28/2005 5:15:20 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Mr. Mojo

$19 for 5 years, no required classes or certifications and you do not have to tell them what kind of gun you're going to carry.


3 posted on 09/28/2005 5:19:50 AM PDT by kx9088
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To: Mr. Mojo

HOO-AHHHHHH!


4 posted on 09/28/2005 5:20:34 AM PDT by NRA1995 (When liberals speak I hear the Vonage music playing.....woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo....)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Nice work Mr. Gray.


5 posted on 09/28/2005 5:21:51 AM PDT by Bon mots
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To: Mr. Mojo
"It's a shame that people are out here shooting in broad daylight," one woman said. She shook her head as she walked up the street toward her apartment.

They should do their shooting at night?

"He didn't commit a crime. He defended himself," Graff said. Gray had a license to carry the gun, which was properly registered, he said.

No, he did not commit a crime. But Graff would be singing a different tune had Gray failed to get a license and register his weapon.

6 posted on 09/28/2005 5:24:39 AM PDT by Logophile
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To: Mr. Mojo
Gray had a license to carry the gun, which was properly registered, he said.

Gray deserves an award. That was some pretty good shooting. An ordinary .45 only holds 8 shots, and we don't know how many he actually fired. He gets 4 hits on an armed opponent who has just shot his boss.

Maybe we should create an "Earp Award" so we can give it to him!

As is often the case, the reporter adds nonsense. As I understand it, there is no gun "registration" in PA, so how could the gun be "properly registered"?

This is a literary devise of the anti freedom types to get people used to the idea of registration.

7 posted on 09/28/2005 5:26:41 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: Logophile

Blame the robbers for not having the manners to rob at, say, 2 AM.


8 posted on 09/28/2005 5:27:30 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (No wonder the Southern Baptist Church threw Greer out: Only one god per church! [Ann Coulter])
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To: Mr. Mojo

needs more range time, one shot, one kill


9 posted on 09/28/2005 5:28:17 AM PDT by sure_fine (*not one to over kill the thought process*)
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To: sure_fine

I prefer the double-tap method with a pistol. 2 shots, but a confirmed kill.


10 posted on 09/28/2005 5:30:40 AM PDT by MortMan (Mostly Harmless)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Thanks for the post.


11 posted on 09/28/2005 5:32:27 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (Dems: "It can't be done" Reps. "Move, we'll find a way or make a way. It has to be done!")
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To: Mr. Mojo

After being shot 4 times with a .45, he's lucky to be alive.


12 posted on 09/28/2005 5:32:51 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Logophile

There is no such thing as "registered" in Pa.

Concealed carry we have. Firearm registration, we don't.

Its a misnomer.


13 posted on 09/28/2005 5:39:01 AM PDT by Al Gator (Remember to pillage BEFORE you burn!)
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To: marktwain
"As is often the case, the reporter adds nonsense. As I understand it, there is no gun "registration" in PA, so how could the gun be "properly registered"?"

You are right that the reporter is acting as if registration is required. Probably trying to reinforce the idea that registration is normal.

The gun was properly registered according to the requirements of our Constitition, which means it was NOT registered. Any registration would be improper.

I recently attended a great 2nd Amendment seminar at George Mason University Law School, and learned about the natural law and common law right to self-defense -- so fundamental as to be taken for granted by the drafters of the Constitution. A presenter told about an outrageous case in the UK about a homeowner who is going to rot away in prison for the rest of his life for shooting burglars. You can't even carry a walking stick now in the UK. I wonder if they can carry only light umbrellas now. No heavy umbrella that could be used for self-defense. Crime has skyrocketed.

14 posted on 09/28/2005 5:44:29 AM PDT by Montfort (Check out the 200+ page free preview of The Figurehead by Thomas Larus at lulu.com/larus)
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To: marktwain
As is often the case, the reporter adds nonsense. As I understand it, there is no gun "registration" in PA, so how could the gun be "properly registered"?

Maybe because it is not "imprpoperly" registered. (/sarcasm)

Just checked packing.org and didn't see anything about registration either.

The constant reference to "registration" in states that don't require it shows the ignorance of the reporter. It's also one of the two things that bugs me about CSI. Nevada does not have registration but in almost every show someone asks if a gun was registered.

15 posted on 09/28/2005 5:49:34 AM PDT by CPOSharky (The more I'm around people the better I like my dogs.)
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To: Al Gator
This "must register" mentality really gets in my crawl. Back just after 9/11 when all my liberal-leaning suburbanite friends came asking advice about weapons, this was a big concern of theirs. HOW to get the weapons "registered". As with PA, NC has NO "registration" laws, nor should it according to our State Constitution.

Too many people are ignorant of the law and their rights with respect to keeping and bearing arms, but the public school system and the MSM seems to have done a pretty good job of making sure that gullible idiots believe that gun registration is a requirement.

Historically, firearm registration has only served as a prerequisite to confiscation.

Molon Labe!
16 posted on 09/28/2005 6:01:59 AM PDT by hiredhand (My kitty disappeared. NOT the rifle!)
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To: sure_fine
needs more range time, one shot, one kill

It was good shooting for certain. The outcome is the proof. But IF he had a 1911 "style" weapon, and 8 rounds, his hit rate is at best 50% inside of 25 feet. Also, as harsh as this might sound, the perp(s) should be dead. Not recovering in hospital.

Yes. Good shooting, now get to the range! :-)
17 posted on 09/28/2005 6:05:26 AM PDT by hiredhand (My kitty disappeared. NOT the rifle!)
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To: Mr. Mojo
Words of advice to idiot robbers:

1) Don't try to rob a store when the OWNER is present. He is less likely to just give you the cash.

2) Don't try to rob stores in a city with good gun laws. If said owner is present he will shoot you. Go to a place with no guns like NYC.

3) Stores were the owner is not present are usually stores with drop safes. Therefore you will only get $20-40.

4) Stop being an idiot and get a real job before you get shot or put away for stealing $20(see 3).
18 posted on 09/28/2005 6:10:02 AM PDT by varyouga (Reformed Kerry voter (I know, I'm a frickin' idiot))
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To: MortMan
I prefer the double-tap method with a pistol. 2 shots, but a confirmed kill.

Most people I've seen who do this on a whim, fire TOO quickly, and panic. As a result, they either shoot into the ground, shoot low on the target (between belly button and knees) or miss altogether. Even inside of 25 feet!

Under "introduced" stress hit rates AND accuracy goes way down.

It's a very calm, and practiced individual who can "double tap" effectively.

Besides this, a "confirmed kill" only requires one shot, and of course your "spotter". :-)
19 posted on 09/28/2005 6:12:30 AM PDT by hiredhand (My kitty disappeared. NOT the rifle!)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator


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