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Court Rules Against Special Ed. Parents
AP ^ | 11/14/5 | GINA HOLLAND

Posted on 11/14/2005 10:10:08 AM PST by SmithL

WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court ruled Monday that parents who demand better special education programs for their children have the burden of proof in the challenges.

Retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, writing for the 6-2 court, said that when parents challenge a program they have the burden in an administrative hearing of showing that the program is insufficient. If schools bring a complaint, the burden rests with them, O'Connor wrote.

The ruling is a loss for a Maryland family that contested the special education program designed for their son with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

The case required the court to interpret the Individuals With Disabilities Education Act, which does not specifically say whether parents or schools have the burden of proof in disputes. The law covers more than 6 million students.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: add; adhd; isntthatspecial; robertscourt; ruling; scotus; specialed
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Isn't THAT special, in a short-bus kind of way.
1 posted on 11/14/2005 10:10:09 AM PST by SmithL
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To: SmithL

ADHD is a disability now?


2 posted on 11/14/2005 10:13:36 AM PST by cgk (Card-Carrying, Dues-Paying Member of the VCBC {Vast Conservative Base Conspiracy})
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To: SmithL
Thank you Lord!!! Some common sense finally spews forth from a court room. Lemme guess who the two dissenters are. I won't even go into the validity of most add/hd claims. Most are just lazy parents and teachers who do no know how to deal with boys. If a say any more I will just P.O. some folks.
3 posted on 11/14/2005 10:14:05 AM PST by aliquando (A Scout is T, L, H, F, C, K, O, C, T, B, C, and R.)
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To: SmithL

They needed the Supreme Court to settle that obvious point?


4 posted on 11/14/2005 10:15:13 AM PST by Brilliant
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To: SmithL

I tend to agree as public school education should not always be life skills education as is what normally is the case with parents of severely disabled children. Parents are responsible for life skills and how being taught to eat sleep etc. falls in the public school education domain is beyond me.

So basically should public education include life skills? And if not, should public school funds support say 100 K a year education for parents to send their disabled child away?

Its a fine line I am sure.


5 posted on 11/14/2005 10:16:52 AM PST by alisasny (Jerry Lewis on France rioting...."CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!")
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To: aliquando

As the parent of a *clinically diagnosed* AD/HD child (two, actually), I agree wholeheartedly that at least 50% of all *behaviorally diagnosed* cases of AD/HD (those promulgated by teachers, etc.) are wrong.

Oh - and the correct therapy (read: learning how to apply one's own ability to filter out distraction) has eliminated the need for even minimal pharmaceutical intervention at all in my kids.


6 posted on 11/14/2005 10:17:58 AM PST by MortMan (Eschew Obfuscation)
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To: SmithL
I'd be interested in reading the whole thing. On the surface I'm not sure I disagree. It's tough to deal with a behavioral problem, even if it is diagnosed as a medical issue. And schools can offer education, but they can't force a child to learn. It's not like installing software into a computer. So even if the parents prove, my child did not learn, they haven't proven that it was the school's fault -- that the school didn't offer the education. Maybe the little hyperactive, inatentive tyke just refused to learn. Where do you draw the line between can't and won't? Either way, how is that the school's fault?
7 posted on 11/14/2005 10:18:43 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (The nastiness of evolutionists proves one theological point: human depravity..)
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To: aliquando

But,but,but.. This was the 'hyperactivity' version!!!!!

/sarc


8 posted on 11/14/2005 10:19:14 AM PST by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
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To: aliquando

Yeah, who were the dissenters?


9 posted on 11/14/2005 10:19:32 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (The nastiness of evolutionists proves one theological point: human depravity..)
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To: aliquando

DING! We have a winner


Justices Ruth Vader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer wrote separate dissents.


10 posted on 11/14/2005 10:19:32 AM PST by paradoxical
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To: cgk
"ADHD is a disability now?"

It always was a fake disease.

Male initiative is the Left's biggest target. (Ever see Clockwork Orange?)

11 posted on 11/14/2005 10:21:08 AM PST by SteveMcKing ("I was born a Democrat. I expect I'll be a Democrat the day I leave this earth." -Zell Miller '04)
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To: SmithL

Wow! Maybe Justice Roberts is knocking heads with Kennedy and Souter - they voted the right way this time!


12 posted on 11/14/2005 10:23:51 AM PST by Cowboy Bob (Liberalism cannot survive in a free and open society.)
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To: aliquando

It is definitely a victory for common sense! There is an incredible amount of abuse when it comes to classifying students as learning disabled and getting them into special ed programs.

One of my friends teaches public school in a town where this is a real problem. The school has a large population of students who are lower-income blacks and Hispanics. Many of these students struggle in school and are put into remedial/special ed classrooms.

The district also has a good number of wealthy white students who also struggle in school. From her perspective as a teacher, my friend has observed that few of these "disabled" white students have any disability beyond a poor work ethic and being spoiled rotten. But the parents of these students are able to get their children classified as learning disabled. The students then get personal aides and are able to remain in regular and sometimes even honors classrooms!

Although many of these white parents are big time liberals who squawk about how racist Bush is because of the Katrina debacle, they'll do anything they can to keep their own spoiled kids from sitting in a classroom with a bunch of minorities. It is not uncommon for these people to threaten to sue the district if it tries to crack down on their children's poor behavior and performance. The situation is just out of control and hopefully this ruling will give the district a little more ammo in the fight against this nonsense.


13 posted on 11/14/2005 10:24:54 AM PST by sassbox (GO IRISH!!!)
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To: SmithL
My wife works for the school district with special needs kids (far beyond ADD), this is a welcome decision.
14 posted on 11/14/2005 10:26:52 AM PST by Michael.SF. ('That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together,' Cindy Sheehan")
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To: cgk
ADHD is a disability now?

Has been for years.

Many many ADHD kids receive SSI benefits of $579.00 per month (you tax dollars) for having ADHD or some other "learning disability."

15 posted on 11/14/2005 10:26:56 AM PST by Skooz (If you believe Adolf Hitler was a Christian, you are a blithering idiot.)
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To: sassbox

Every ADD or ADHD diagnosis is more money for the school. So when the school has input, they are motivated to get a positive diagnosis. Now this case sounds like a real behavioral problem, but I think many times it's just a bunch of bunk.


16 posted on 11/14/2005 10:31:50 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (The nastiness of evolutionists proves one theological point: human depravity..)
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To: Skooz

They get social security money? I know a kid with spina bifida who gets the money, but I had no idea an ADHD kid could get it too. Wow!


17 posted on 11/14/2005 10:33:08 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (The nastiness of evolutionists proves one theological point: human depravity..)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

Yep.

A lot of it, too.


18 posted on 11/14/2005 10:37:33 AM PST by Skooz (If you believe Adolf Hitler was a Christian, you are a blithering idiot.)
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To: SmithL
"School districts are charged with responsibility to offer to each disabled child an individualized education program (IEP) suitable to the child's special needs. The proponent of the IEP, it seems to me, is properly called upon to demonstrate its adequacy," Ginsburg wrote.

Based on the above statement, Ginsburg seems to be missing the point of this case. Specifically:

An IEP is written for a student, after an evaluation of that child's needs. The assessment and the IEP are written by the same person and approved by the administration (at least in Contra Costa County, and likely in other districts). The IEP is written by a professionally trained and licensed therapists, the goals and program is designed to attain certain results, based on that child's capabilities.

If the IEP is not adequate, then the results will not be achieved (yes there are many variables at work here). But the people in position to best evaluate the overall results, are the parents. That is what this case seems to be saying.

19 posted on 11/14/2005 10:40:02 AM PST by Michael.SF. ('That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together,' Cindy Sheehan")
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

I think in my friend's case, the school district would prefer there were fewer ADD diagnosis. Allowing these kids all kinds of special privliges causes a lot of harm in the long run. It does no one any favors to put a child who will not behave and will not attempt to do work in a regular or even honors classroom. The worst aspect of it all is the truancy issue. Some of these "disabled" students just can't stay in school the whole day, they must either come in late or leave early - without permission. If the school tires to discipline a student for all these unexcused absences, the parents threaten to sue - after all, the poor child is disabled, so he can't be expected to show up at eight each morning like everyone else. It puts the school in a horrible bind because when a student is truant, the school is still liable for his or her safety. If a student cuts out early and then gets, say, hit by a car, the parents can - and will - sue the school district to kingdom come. So the school is damned if they do and damned if they don't.


20 posted on 11/14/2005 10:41:59 AM PST by sassbox (GO IRISH!!!)
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To: SmithL

How do you type the sound of money washing down the drain? Special Ed should've been called Special Fund.


21 posted on 11/14/2005 10:43:35 AM PST by AmericanChef
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To: SmithL
Retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, writing for the 6-2 court, said that when parents challenge a program they have the burden in an administrative hearing of showing that the program is insufficient. If schools bring a complaint, the burden rests with them, O'Connor wrote.

Sounds reasonable to me.

22 posted on 11/14/2005 10:48:02 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: cgk
It is, if one of you kids has it.

It's a nightmare to deal with at times for both parent, child and teacher.

If you embarrass easily in public, don't have ADHD children.

I have a lot of empathy for anyone who has a child with ADHD.

Here is a web site that might give you a better understanding of what ADHD parents have to deal with everyday: http://www.understandingadhd.com/webcast_transcript.asp?b=understandingadhd&f=adhd_comprehend&c=helpadhd&pg=2

or

http://www.understandingadhd.com/focus_index.asp?f=adhd_comprehend&b=understandingadhd

We have real problems with mental health.

The Democrats prove everyday that mental problems not dealt with can be detrimental to the population and our country.
23 posted on 11/14/2005 10:51:42 AM PST by OKIEDOC (There's nothing like hearing someone say thank you for your help.)
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To: SmithL

24 posted on 11/14/2005 10:57:56 AM PST by RightWingAtheist (Free the Crevo Three!)
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To: OKIEDOC
Do you ever watch The Nanny on television? IMO that's the sort of transformation most ADHD kids need. I'm not saying it is never legit; I'm just saying that I doubt it is most of the time. In one week the nanny can transform an ADHD household into an orderly one with nothing more than proper discipline. Maybe Dare to Discipline should be given to every parent in the U.S. Spend my tax dollars on it. Give out Spanish editions. Books on tape. Whatever it takes.
25 posted on 11/14/2005 11:07:42 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (The nastiness of evolutionists proves one theological point: human depravity..)
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To: Skooz
Many many ADHD kids receive SSI benefits of $579.00 per month (you tax dollars) for having ADHD or some other "learning disability."

Are you joking? Where did you hear about this?

26 posted on 11/14/2005 11:07:44 AM PST by randog (What the....?!)
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To: sassbox

I no longer teach chemistry in High School. It is impossible and dangerous to teach this subject with seven special education students and no assistant-every lesson plan and lab must be altered in order to compensate for eight different types of learning. Lab is just plain scary. At my last school, some of these kids broke into the lab and killed some of the animals.


27 posted on 11/14/2005 11:11:23 AM PST by nyconse (a)
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To: MortMan

Pat your self on the back for doing a good job.


28 posted on 11/14/2005 11:14:51 AM PST by OKIEDOC (There's nothing like hearing someone say thank you for your help.)
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To: OKIEDOC

Thank you for those links.


29 posted on 11/14/2005 11:17:14 AM PST by half-cajun
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To: aliquando

My son has the misfortune of being in a (3rd grade) class with a student whose parents are just too lazy to discipline him, so they've gotten him diagnosed as "ADD."

They tolerate his disruptive behavior, with a "Now Bradley, we don't act like that," when what the boy really needs is a swift kick in the pants!


30 posted on 11/14/2005 11:18:48 AM PST by Redbob
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To: SmithL
Isn't THAT special, in a short-bus kind of way.

Disgusting comment.

31 posted on 11/14/2005 11:19:06 AM PST by New Perspective (Proud father of an 22 month old son with Down Syndrome)
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To: AmericanChef
How do you type the sound of money washing down the drain? Special Ed should've been called Special Fund.

Are you talking about all Special Ed or just the ADD?

32 posted on 11/14/2005 11:20:43 AM PST by New Perspective (Proud father of an 22 month old son with Down Syndrome)
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To: OKIEDOC

For a change, let's have a little "empathy" for the other 98 or 99% of the kids who are normal but who have to put up wtih the undisciplined monsters in their classes - and who, often enough, are part of a "group punishment" arising from the actions of the "ADD" kid.

How do you explain to an 8-year-old who thinks it's unfair that the whole class has to do without recess for a week because little Bradley was acting up?


33 posted on 11/14/2005 11:26:39 AM PST by Redbob
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To: Redbob

Not every child who has ADHD is an "undisciplined little monster".


34 posted on 11/14/2005 11:28:21 AM PST by half-cajun
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To: OKIEDOC; The Ghost of FReepers Past; Skooz; SteveMcKing
I am the parent of a rambunctious, hyper, 3 year old. She does her own thing 90% of the time, and it takes 100 times to tell her something for her to do it. Extremely advanced in many things: less-so in social skills. She IS 3. The family hints she may have ADHD... which I asked the pediatrician about. She calls her "spirited", which many of the S.D. FReepers who met her would probably agree with.

I watch "SuperNanny"... every week! The same-age children in some of the shows are not unlike my own at times, and her techniques are helping us, when applicable.

But, if I had a doctor diagnose her as ADHD, I'd probably seek more information as well as a 2nd opinion. I've never heard ADHD considered a disability, and it's "in" our family: unfortunately IMHO used as a crutch. And I have what IS considered a disability, that most people would never question: MS. I'm one of the lucky ones, who has it but you can't tell by looking at me most of the time, so even I grow uncomfortable with being called "disabled" when there are so many who are worse off than I.

On another note: It seems to me that the parents of this child in the article could have better spent their money on specialized education, than on an attorney all the way to the Supreme Court? It isn't stated that I recall, but I doubt this case was free.

35 posted on 11/14/2005 11:37:26 AM PST by cgk (Card-Carrying, Dues-Paying Member of the VCBC {Vast Conservative Base Conspiracy})
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To: MortMan
Oh - and the correct therapy (read: learning how to apply one's own ability to filter out distraction) has eliminated the need for even minimal pharmaceutical intervention at all in my kids.

Exactly what we are striving for :). I admire you.

36 posted on 11/14/2005 11:41:40 AM PST by cgk (Card-Carrying, Dues-Paying Member of the VCBC {Vast Conservative Base Conspiracy})
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To: randog
Many many ADHD kids receive SSI benefits of $579.00 per month (you tax dollars) for having ADHD or some other "learning disability."

Are you joking? Where did you hear about this?

Too true, known in the welfare community as 'crazy money', Mothers encourage their children to act out. No obligation on the parent to even use the money for their child.

37 posted on 11/14/2005 11:42:48 AM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: cgk

Nah - Admire my kids. They're the ones that worked their butts off to achieve that milestone!

Good luck.


38 posted on 11/14/2005 11:47:49 AM PST by MortMan (Eschew Obfuscation)
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To: aliquando

I am with you!! Hallelujah, a teeny glimmer of common sense from SCOTUS. Amazing.

I would love to see statistics on the amount of money spent on Special Ed. My 'friend' demanded that her son be sent to a Really Special school across town (Los Angeles). You'd think there would be something an hour closer, but NO. A taxi picked this young man up, delivered him across town (one hour, one way) and returned him home at the end of the day. On OUR TAX DOLLAR.

Our school district is totally impoverished due to many reasons and some incredibly stupid decisions. But this took the cake, to me.


39 posted on 11/14/2005 11:51:05 AM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: SmithL

Your kid and my kid are just as "special" as these kids, yet we can't get custom-tailored programs to help our kids reach their potential. Why not?

Another question: If you had an extra $100,000 to spend on educating a kid, who would you choose to spend it on, a bright kid who might cure cancer someday, or a kid who will be lucky if he ever learns to tie his shoes? (Before you flame me, I am NOT saying that slow kids should not be educated or should be warehoused or ignored, just that we need to have a little common sense in the distribution of our assets.)

We need to examine our priorities in this country. The public education system would be a good place to start.


40 posted on 11/14/2005 11:52:57 AM PST by IndyInVa (There needs to be less corruption. Or more opportunity for me to participate in it.)
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To: sassbox

Go Irish, indeed! (Aren't they looking FINE this year?) Interesting your report re schools/ learning disabilities. The kids I know -- who grew up alongside my son -- the ADHD ones came from incredibly chaotic families. That the school district should have to provide a one-on-one 'attendant' for these kids sickens me. Should be the same across the board. Besides which the kids are being propagandized. yuck!


41 posted on 11/14/2005 11:57:45 AM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: Skooz

WHAT?? They receive SSI payments for being wiggley? WHAT????


42 posted on 11/14/2005 11:58:18 AM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: bboop; SmithL
FYI, although your personal experience may show that the ADHD kids came from chaotic households, I can affirm to you that that is certainly not universal. Sometimes these so-called "short bus" kids, as a previous poster so quaintly put it, are from regular hard working families who deal with an incredibly difficult situation. Most of the posters on this site who have no one-on-one experience with these kids may want to stop with the generalizations.
43 posted on 11/14/2005 12:05:16 PM PST by half-cajun
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
The Ghost of FReepers Past wrote: Do you ever watch The Nanny on television? IMO that's the sort of transformation most ADHD kids need. I'm not saying it is never legit; I'm just saying that I doubt it is most of the time. In one week the nanny can transform an ADHD household into an orderly one with nothing more than proper discipline. Maybe Dare to Discipline should be given to every parent in the U.S. Spend my tax dollars on it. Give out Spanish editions. Books on tape. Whatever it takes.

REPLY:

Discipline in America went the way of good manners and civilized social interaction when we did away with the draft. We are one of the few civilized countries where a child has no real obligation to his or her country. This shows up on just about every cable news broadcast where children are involved. The little protester running up and down the street demeaning their own country or the animals who inhabit San Francisco, NAMBLA, ACLU and Most of the Democrat party.

I wished it was as easy as bringing in a Nanny and making everything all OK. However, most of the people I know do not have the funds or resources to adequately deal with a true ADHD diagnosed child. Mental disorders are not always the easiest to diagnose.

I am somewhat disappointed with many of the comments from FReepers who are spouting off about things they obviously do not have a clue about. Some of them even sound like they need to switch over to the party of Dean, Reid, Pelosie, Turbin and Kennedy.

When I went to school back in the 50's and 60's there was no ADHD diagnosis or special education. The teachers dealt with my ADHD by whipping my ass everyday. I probably spent half the school year sitting out in the hall enjoying the benefits of being ridiculed for being the class joker.
So I know from whence these children are coming and it ain't all fun for the child. LifeSavers just don't seem to do the trick for kids with ADHD or Autism.

However, with that said I am a firm believer in discipline. Raising happy well adjusted and well-behaved children is a job in it's self. I marvel when I see children in public who are extremely behaved. There is a difference between children who have no real direction at home and those with ADHD.
44 posted on 11/14/2005 12:06:02 PM PST by OKIEDOC (There's nothing like hearing someone say thank you for your help.)
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To: paradoxical
Preaching to the choir brother, preaching to the choir.
45 posted on 11/14/2005 12:09:33 PM PST by aliquando (A Scout is T, L, H, F, C, K, O, C, T, B, C, and R.)
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To: cgk

I think everything you said is very reasonable and intelligent. Your beautiful little child is probably just normal in the range of her specific personality type. I think you are wise to look for discipline adivce first. Some kids are more challenging, and sometimes it is just a matter of trying out different techniques and being firm but loving. Do not yield to her control no matter what, but stay calm and sweet. That whole eye contact thing is big, plus talking slowly and being very specific and very consistent. Three is very young. You have lots of time.


46 posted on 11/14/2005 12:09:43 PM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (The nastiness of evolutionists proves one theological point: human depravity..)
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To: OKIEDOC

I'm with you. As the parent of a child with severe ADHD, I cannot even describe the difficulties we have, DESPITE the discipline we impose in our home, (regardless of what many of the posters here today think). Some days I don't know how we're going to make it through school. Frankly, I knew I shouldn't have even clicked on this thread. I knew what I was going to read. I used to be one of those people who thought it didn't even exist and that it was basically a discipline problem or a way for teachers to maintain control of little boys. But when you have a 3 year old who can't even concentrate long enough to learn his colors no matter how many times you go over it, you realize that there's a problem.


47 posted on 11/14/2005 12:12:02 PM PST by half-cajun
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To: TC Rider

I know one of these moms. She's actually my sister in law. She taught her daughter (who has no disability other than being a lazy, overweight couch potato) how to work the system to get her deadbeat pay. So sad when your only goal in life is to sit around and watch tv on someone elses dime. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I did this. I would feel so ashamed!


48 posted on 11/14/2005 12:16:54 PM PST by derllak
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To: TC Rider; randog
Too true, known in the welfare community as 'crazy money', Mothers encourage their children to act out. No obligation on the parent to even use the money for their child.

"Crazy checks" have been all the vogue since 1992. Since that time, billions have been given to "slow learners," etc., as well as those kids suffering from maladies like "oppositional defiant disorder."

49 posted on 11/14/2005 12:23:15 PM PST by Skooz (If you believe Adolf Hitler was a Christian, you are a blithering idiot.)
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To: derllak
Ditto here with my ex-wife's sister. A classic welfare queen. Drug addled, drawn to men who beat her and two worthless boys, now grown, who have now both been in the gray-bar hotel. What a way to go through life.

Believe it or not, her first hubby, now dead, was the 'man with no face' featured on Rippleys, Larry King, Maury and South Park. (and yes, he beat her too!)

More here

50 posted on 11/14/2005 12:27:36 PM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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