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Alpine ice man may have been childless outcast
Reuters ^ | Fri Feb 3, 2006 | Sophie Hardach

Posted on 02/03/2006 6:43:25 PM PST by presidio9

Stone Age man found frozen in the Alps some 5,300 years after he was murdered under mysterious circumstances may have been a childless social outcast, a new study showed.

Italian anthropologist Franco Rollo studied fragments of the DNA belonging to Oetzi, as the mummy has come to be known, and found two typical mutations common among men with reduced sperm mobility, the museum that stores the "iceman" said.

A high percentage of men with such a condition are sterile.

"Insofar as the 'iceman' was found to possess both mutations, the possibility that he was unable to father offspring cannot be eliminated," the South Tyrol Museum of Archaeology in the Alpine town of Bolzano said in a statement.

"This not improbable hypothesis raises new questions concerning his social rank within his society," it added, arguing that the new evidence supported a theory that viewed the man as a social outcast.

Hikers discovered Oetzi in the mountains between Italy and Austria in 1991.

In 2001, scientists found an arrowhead in the iceman's shoulder blade, and tests revealed blood from four different people on his clothes and a cut in his hand, possibly from a fight.

Medicine in the man's pockets and sophisticated weapons seemed to indicate that he was a shaman or a chieftain, and one theory says Oetzi was the victim of a power struggle in his own tribe. A rival theory proposes the opposite -- that he was a reject.

Rollo, a researcher at the University of Camerino in Italy, was also able to assign the mummy's DNA to one of the basic groups of human DNA historically occurring in Europe.

His basic DNA resembles that of the Ladines, an ethnic group still living in the region today, and that of residents of the Oetztal valley where he was found, the museum said.

Rollo's latest research findings will be published in February's edition of the American Journal of Physical Anthropology.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: ancientautopsies; bushsfault; dna; georgergervin; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; iceman; mtdna; oetzi; otzi; superseded; theiceman; valkilmer
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To: presidio9

"..may have been a childless social outcast.."

Sure, and he may have been the first Maytag repair man. These wacko psychobabble practitioners kill me.


41 posted on 02/03/2006 9:39:44 PM PST by Rembrandt (We would have won Viet Nam w/o Dim interference.)
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To: Rembrandt
he may have been the first Maytag repair man

LOL!

42 posted on 02/03/2006 9:57:42 PM PST by GVnana (Former Alias: GVgirl)
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To: naturalman1975

This man was my great x 200 grandfather. His inability to produce offspring has created terrible problems for me.



You shouldn't be complaining. You shouldn't exist!


DUH! None of us should exist.


43 posted on 02/04/2006 6:17:54 PM PST by Louis Foxwell (Here come I, gravitas in tow.)
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To: presidio9; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs

Note: this topic is from February 3, 2006. Thanks presidio9. That one just seemed like it was related somehow, and thanks fanfan for posting it back on 11/21/2007.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

·Dogpile · Archaeologica · LiveScience · Archaeology · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
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· The Archaeology Channel · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


44 posted on 01/18/2010 11:00:32 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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To: Ditto
As a kid, I was absolutely fascinated with looking a Egyptian mummies in the museum. But after a while, I realized they were real people.

The American Museum of Natural History in New York used to have an exhibit with a mummified Peruvian, apparently a copper miner, in a block of copper ore, encased in Plexiglas. They didn't give you any warning, you just turned a corner in an obscure section of the Central American section and came face to face with the poor guy. His hair was in perfect condition and his skin only slightly yellowed. I remember running into him when I was about 14 and feeling slight pangs of guilt and very little morbid curiosity. I hate to sound politically correct, but I was somewhat relieved about twenty years later when the wave of third world sensibility forced them to take him off display.

In those days, before the Government of Egypt made a major dump on the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Brooklyn Museum was the go to place for Egyptology. They did not, however, exhibit mummies, only wonderful artifacts and sarcophagi and coffins.

45 posted on 01/18/2010 12:06:33 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Don't blame me, I'm from Massachusetts)
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To: TNdandelion
I just can't believe that I sat there and watched the whole thing. I have no life.

No, you were reinforcing your understanding that much scientific speculation concerning the distant past is just that, speculation. It is usually speculation built upon very flimsy evidence. Given a little time and slogging around in the system the flimsy speculation will most likely be reported as near fact or even fact.

46 posted on 01/18/2010 1:52:12 PM PST by Bellflower (If you are left DO NOT take the mark of the beast and be damned forever.)
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To: SunkenCiv

You’re welcome from 2 years ago, Civ.


47 posted on 01/18/2010 3:25:14 PM PST by fanfan (Why did they bury Barry's past?)
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To: Hound of the Baskervilles; SunkenCiv

My theory is that because of his widely known sterility, he was a renowned sportf-——r of the Alps.

He was chased into the Alpine pass by an irate husband and his kin who’d found him in his wife’s boudoir.

He woulda made it, despite the wounds, except for the sudden blizzard.

This is a valid archeological theory based on evidence.


48 posted on 01/18/2010 4:19:37 PM PST by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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To: fanfan

:’)


49 posted on 01/18/2010 4:38:30 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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To: GVnana; SunkenCiv
Medicine in the man's pockets and sophisticated weapons seemed to indicate that he was a shaman or a chieftain, and one theory says Oetzi was the victim of a power struggle in his own tribe. A rival theory proposes the opposite -- that he was a reject.

Anything for an academic fight. About on the same level as pinheads and dancing angels.

Just as likely he was a battle casualty, shot in the back, either from ambush, or while fleeing in retreat/covering a retreat. No where near enough data to even begin to make real assertions.

"Murder" is a cultural/judicial construct*; "violent death", and "homicide" are neutral terms that don't depend upon motivational deductions 5,300 years removed. We know nothing of the actual circumstances of his death, as to who was the aggressor; nor why; nor who his opponents even were.

Even the "sterility" claim is, though highly likely, speculative, as not ALL with the mutations who suffer low sperm motility are 100% sterile. DNA tests, in some cases have proved paternity by the affected male.

In addition, most ancient societies typically put the onus of no offspring upon the female...unless (but not even always then) she had reproduced previously.



*God's explicit prohibition wasn't formally handed down until approx 1,700 B.C., when The Law was handed down at Mount Sinai. Also, Biblically speaking, murder referred to premeditated, unlawful homicide, i.e. "lying in wait". Note that it exempted the "Avenger of Blood" (hence the Sanctuary Cities) for seeking righteous retribution, among other sanctioned deaths we would now refer to as murder.

50 posted on 01/18/2010 6:19:03 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (I think not, therefore I don't exist!)
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To: wildbill

Ha! I like your theory best.


51 posted on 01/18/2010 7:46:27 PM PST by To Hell With Poverty (The War on Poverty is over. Poverty won. - Howie Carr)
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To: presidio9

It is a hate crime.


52 posted on 01/18/2010 8:31:33 PM PST by Ladycalif (Justice for Agent Rosas - Secure the Border.)
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To: presidio9

Ladines?????

Ladin is a Rhaeto-Romance language (not to be confused with Ladino - the language of Sephardic Jews). Rhaeto-Romance Languages are an outgrowth of Latin and Rhaetic Languages and relatively recent in origin.

Rhaetic languages, however, are extremely ancient and this guy may have spoken one of them. They are possibly related to Etruscan and are probably pre-IndoEuropean.


53 posted on 01/18/2010 9:31:07 PM PST by ZULU (God guts and guns made America great. Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I wonder how exclusive “marriage” was at that time. Did they mate for life or a season or with any sense of love and family, or were they tribal and “open”? How would any man know a child was his or not? How did any woman know for sure who was the father of her children?


54 posted on 01/18/2010 10:01:31 PM PST by ValerieTexas
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To: Casloy; shibumi; Slings and Arrows; Markos33

What?

You don’t take sterile members of your extended family out into the wilderness and murder them?

You weirdo.

;]


55 posted on 01/19/2010 1:09:35 AM PST by Salamander (No witty "tagline" for now....All I ask is for God to show mercy to my husband and let him live.)
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To: Salamander
And in a bizarre nexus of ideas, I searched images of "pagan fertility rites" for a witty riposte. This is what showed up as the first image:


56 posted on 01/19/2010 1:30:23 AM PST by shibumi (Health and well being for S. and L. - in Jesus name we pray!)
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To: shibumi

Oooooo-kay.


57 posted on 01/19/2010 1:36:42 AM PST by Salamander (No witty "tagline" for now....All I ask is for God to show mercy to my husband andscis let him live.)
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To: muir_redwoods

“The four different blood types”

Sounds like he took a few with him, to me, and ran off.


58 posted on 01/19/2010 8:05:44 AM PST by TheThirdRuffian (Nothing to see here. Move along.)
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To: presidio9
Stone Age man found frozen in the Alps some 5,300 years after he was murdered under mysterious circumstances may have been a childless social outcast, a new study showed.

Liberal reporters just can't help themselves can they? Murdered? How do they know, maybe the guy was an outlaw being chased down and killed because of the foul deeds he committed. Who knows. He did have an arrow in him but whether it was murder or not will forever remain a mystery to us.

59 posted on 01/19/2010 11:09:37 AM PST by calex59
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To: ValerieTexas

Love child, never meant to be...


60 posted on 01/19/2010 5:11:22 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
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