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Church mulls 'phrasing' change for Holy Trinity
The Washington Times ^ | June 20, 2006 | Richard Ostling

Posted on 06/20/2006 4:35:44 AM PDT by pageonetoo

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- At some Presbyterian churches the Holy Trinity -- "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- will be out. "Mother, Child and Womb" is in.

Delegates to the national assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted yesterday to "receive" a policy paper on sex-inclusive language for the Trinity, a step short of approving it. Church officials are enabled to propose "experimental liturgies" with "alternative phrasings" for the Trinity, but congregations won't be required to use them.

Besides "Mother, Child and Womb" and "Rock, Redeemer, Friend," options include:
• "Lover, Beloved, Love"
• "Creator, Savior, Sanctifier"
• "King of Glory, Prince of Peace, Spirit of Love"

"This does not alter the church's theological position, but provides an educational resource to enhance the spiritual life of our membership," legislative committee chairman Nancy Olthoff, an Iowa laywoman, said during yesterday's debate on the changes.

The assembly narrowly defeated a conservative bid to send the paper back for further study, which would have killed it.

A panel that worked on the issue since 2000 said the classical language for the Trinity still should be used, but Presbyterians should seek "fresh ways to speak of the mystery of the triune God" to "expand the church's vocabulary of praise and wonder."..

(Excerpt) Read more at insider.washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: babble; babel; blahblahblah; christian; church; gobbledegook; orwelianlanguage; towerofbabel; trinity
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Comment #1 Removed by Moderator

To: pageonetoo

"Mother, Child and Womb"

What is it with those people?

Up is down, left is right, day is night, wrong is right... I think you're right about priestesses and homo-sodomites.


2 posted on 06/20/2006 4:39:07 AM PDT by butternut_squash_bisque (The recipe's at my FR HomePage. Try it!)
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To: pageonetoo

Paper, rock, scissors!


3 posted on 06/20/2006 4:39:31 AM PDT by corkoman
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To: pageonetoo

Churches are leaving God in droves (again).


4 posted on 06/20/2006 4:40:29 AM PDT by RoadTest (“Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil” –Thomas Mann)
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To: pageonetoo

"My dad is a retired Episcopal Priest, and I was raised accordingly. I ended up in the AG"

Big improvement!"


5 posted on 06/20/2006 4:41:34 AM PDT by RoadTest (“Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil” –Thomas Mann)
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To: pageonetoo

*eyes, doing 360s in my head*


6 posted on 06/20/2006 4:42:06 AM PDT by rabidralph
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To: butternut_squash_bisque
They're like kudzu - they're taking over everything - our laws, the media, public schools & now our churches.
7 posted on 06/20/2006 4:42:10 AM PDT by alicewonders
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To: butternut_squash_bisque

It's amazing; I'm a Presbyterian, but PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) which is still conservative and faithful to God and His Word.

It just amazes me that there is any wonder as to why there are close to 50,000 members leaving the PCUSA every year!

PCUSA=Presbyterian Church, United States Apostate!


8 posted on 06/20/2006 4:44:13 AM PDT by HossB86
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To: pageonetoo

It is difficult enough to understand the Holy Trinity. What educational value does re-naming it have?

Our Christian Churches in every sect needs some stronger leadership. The week-kneed leaders of our faith are patsies that seek diversity and inclusion via relaxing the teachings of the church, the teachings of Christ.


9 posted on 06/20/2006 4:45:10 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (Not today.)
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To: All

see also AP article of the same

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1652271/posts?page=83


10 posted on 06/20/2006 4:45:24 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: alicewonders

Frog in the boiling water theory. Sociaty has been slowly penetrated and corrupted by them for the past 15-20 years. I've seen it coming when the liberal courts rule in their favor as a 'protected class' against normal society.


11 posted on 06/20/2006 4:46:16 AM PDT by butternut_squash_bisque (The recipe's at my FR HomePage. Try it!)
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To: butternut_squash_bisque
Something's going through my mind that's funny as all get out, but would be sacrilidgous to enter here. And it would be hurtful to my religous friends to boot.

I can't understand why it is that SOME people think that they have to change things like this... Unless it's because they don't fit in, and rather than joining a different "sect" or even coming up with their own, they need to "reshape" the beliefs of millions of people to fit their own wishes.

Mark

12 posted on 06/20/2006 4:46:33 AM PDT by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: butternut_squash_bisque

mother=single unwed mother who does not need any man to raise a child

Child= fatherless child who is better off without the father

Womb= not a penis, because men are eeeeeevil.


13 posted on 06/20/2006 4:47:04 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: RoadTest

Well, I left church, but not God.


14 posted on 06/20/2006 4:48:32 AM PDT by GulfWar1Vet (Hey Murtha, Kerry, Kennedy, Schumer, Hillary, and Pelosi...STFU!)
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To: Tenacious 1
Our Christian Churches in every sect needs some stronger leadership.

Amen! It's only Christians who are to blame when this kind of thing is happening to so many Christian denominations. We get the government, schools & churches we deserve.

15 posted on 06/20/2006 4:49:24 AM PDT by alicewonders
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To: MarkL

feminist lesbians who failed to make wica mainstrean have decided to make christianity atheist.


16 posted on 06/20/2006 4:49:25 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: corkoman
Paper, rock, scissors!

I wish I could laugh, because that's funny.

17 posted on 06/20/2006 4:50:34 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: longtermmemmory

I think the fact that they are trying to change OUR religious institutions, rather than creating their very own religion - shows that they have evil intent. Their purpose is to DESTROY - not to amend. Satan is laughing right now.


18 posted on 06/20/2006 4:53:02 AM PDT by alicewonders
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To: corkoman

Peanut, Butter, & Jelly?

Crosby, Stills, & Nash?

Larry, Darrell, & Darrell?

Up, Chuck, & Die?

Basically any group (or non-group) of any three (more-or-less) objects, people, or ideas, that you can feel comfortable with, and that bring you inner peace. Because that's what it's all about, after all - inner peace.


19 posted on 06/20/2006 4:53:21 AM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (Rugged individualists of the world, unite!)
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To: HossB86
PCUSA=Presbyterian Church, United States Apostate!

OH!!! That's what it is! All this time I have been reading it dyslexically as CPUSA. I thought it was the Commies pretending like they got Religion.

20 posted on 06/20/2006 4:55:09 AM PDT by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: HossB86

With 50k leaving each year, it won't be long before very few are left.


21 posted on 06/20/2006 4:59:19 AM PDT by butternut_squash_bisque (The recipe's at my FR HomePage. Try it!)
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To: MarkL

This has been going on for the past 15-20 years, as liberal courts have legislated a *new society* for the 'protected' group of whiners.


22 posted on 06/20/2006 5:00:49 AM PDT by butternut_squash_bisque (The recipe's at my FR HomePage. Try it!)
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To: pageonetoo

I have been studying this phenomenon in the church for over a decade. It is being driven by a feminization of the churches in the USA that has encouraged female priestesses to create a Mother God in place of Father God as if it were simply a political process like ERA. In this they only have one major obstacle - The Holy Bible - and they are intent on rewriting it to suit their needs.

Clearly, as the feminist social revisionists advance, its effect is a full blown male orthodox retreat. It is time for real men and women in the church to understand that the love of God as Father is a tough love involving sin and repentance as a means to Grace. That is why "Father" is used. This new counterfeit is a tepid version of moral relativism and deserves to be spewed out of our mouths. It is time to stand up against this desecration.


23 posted on 06/20/2006 5:00:53 AM PDT by MountainMenace (E Pluribus Unum! An oxymoron for liberals.)
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To: Hegemony Cricket

Dewey, Cheatham, & Howe?


24 posted on 06/20/2006 5:01:30 AM PDT by thulldud ("Muslim Community Leaders Warn of Backlash from Tomorrow's Terrorist Attack")
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To: butternut_squash_bisque
WHY!!

Early Christians fought for centuries over different versions of the trinity. The Arian Christians believed that Christ was created after God, not at the time of God's creation, therefore was not equal to God. The Nicean Creed resolved that in favor of the current view, not the Arian Christian view. Why start this again in another form?
25 posted on 06/20/2006 5:01:40 AM PDT by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: thulldud

LOL - I done fergot about them fellers completely!


26 posted on 06/20/2006 5:10:31 AM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (Rugged individualists of the world, unite!)
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To: TexasGreg

Ping


27 posted on 06/20/2006 5:11:20 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Jesus on Immigration, John 10:1)
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To: butternut_squash_bisque

Nominalism in action?


28 posted on 06/20/2006 5:11:39 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: alicewonders
[Amen! It's only Christians who are to blame when this kind of thing is happening to so many Christian denominations. We get the government, schools & churches we deserve.]

The leaders of our Christian Faith (Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopal, baptist, etc) paint Christ in the image of a peacenik, all inclusive, warm and fuzzy, quiet, discreet, shy, humble, passive man. In their attempt to emulate our Lord, they are misguided and erode (in my opinion) the true word and teachings of Christ. Christ was tolerant and accepting. But he was a man's man. He was a pretty tough guy. He gave no one a free pass and didn't accept excuses. He didn't pull punches and said it like it was. He was not discreet. He sent his apostles into towns to announce his coming and make preparations for his arrival. He preached against what the high priests were teaching from their mighty pulpits. He rebelled against the church of his time. He had physical altercations in defense of what was right. He condemned people and deeds. He feared nothing publicly and he was anything but politically correct.

He was, whether you believe in him as the Lord or not, the Human Race's strongest leader. Religiously or otherwise, his existence on this planet has affected the way billions have lived their lives for 2,000 years. This man did not change to appease or attract followers. He lead with truth, honesty and action.
29 posted on 06/20/2006 5:12:47 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (Not today.)
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To: butternut_squash_bisque

How about "One potato, Two potato, Three"?


30 posted on 06/20/2006 5:14:42 AM PDT by Doohickey (Democrats are nothing without a constituency of victims.)
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To: butternut_squash_bisque

bttt


31 posted on 06/20/2006 5:15:57 AM PDT by aberaussie
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To: butternut_squash_bisque; Admin Moderator
My #1 been deleted, with my reference to the perverted ones in the pulpit. I guess we have PC among us, and the AM feels obligated to honor their sensibilities...

Sorry, AM, but I will not give credibility to the vileness, which is overtaking our Church! I will try to use a better choice of words, to describe these perverts, rather than refer to a hot coal!

What term is acceptable?

32 posted on 06/20/2006 5:17:17 AM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: alicewonders
I think the fact that they are trying to change OUR religious institutions, rather than creating their very own religion - shows that they have evil intent.

It's easier to hijack an existing organization, with its buildings and pension plans intact, than it is to start your own. Gary North's excelent history book With Crossed Fingers demonstrated how the largest, soundest, and most conservative Christian body in the USA -- the PCUSA -- was surrendered because the orthodox were too "nice" to have heresy trials.

33 posted on 06/20/2006 5:17:44 AM PDT by TomSmedley (Calvinist, optimist, home schooling dad, exuberant husband, technical writer)
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To: corkoman
Paper, rock, scissors!

LOL!

34 posted on 06/20/2006 5:20:55 AM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: Hegemony Cricket

How 'bout:
Big Daddy, Little Daddy, and the spook.


35 posted on 06/20/2006 5:21:32 AM PDT by true_blue_texican
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To: corkoman

Good attempt.

I was thinking Larry, Moe and Curly.

Sarcasm doesn't always carry well in the written word, but I think yours did.


36 posted on 06/20/2006 5:26:21 AM PDT by Paloma_55 (I may be a hateful bigot, but I still love you)
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To: Hegemony Cricket

Manny, Moe, & Jack?

Larry, Moe, & Curly?

Huey, Dewey, & Louie?

Marshal, Will, & Holly?

Abraham, Martin, & John?

One Bourbon, One Scotch, & One Beer?



37 posted on 06/20/2006 5:26:23 AM PDT by Triggerhippie (Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.)
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To: Doohickey

Nah, ya gotta think 'diversity' - it's One Little, Two Little, Three Little Indians...


38 posted on 06/20/2006 5:27:46 AM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (Rugged individualists of the world, unite!)
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To: alicewonders; longtermmemmory
I think the fact that they are trying to change OUR religious institutions, rather than creating their very own religion - shows that they have evil intent. Their purpose is to DESTROY - not to amend. Satan is laughing right now.

I think you've nailed it - that is the plan. I think we are witnessing the end-game culmination of a long-term Gramscian strategy of infiltration, subversion, co-option and deconstruction.

39 posted on 06/20/2006 5:28:39 AM PDT by tarheelswamprat
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To: HossB86

It seems that determined leftists like Nancy Olthoff are determined to kill the Church and rebuild it in their pagan image. Perhaps the greatest threat to the early Church was the activity of the female-dominated orgiastic sects. Given the chance, women like Olthoff will have history repeat itself.


40 posted on 06/20/2006 5:29:37 AM PDT by gaspar
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To: butternut_squash_bisque

This is actually a rather interesting development. One of the writers of the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" (which is claimed to be a primary source for Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code") suggested that the Holy Grail that was claimed to have been used to catch Jesus' blood, is actually a reference to Mary Magdalene's womb and the baby she and Jesus supposedly created is the "blood".

Given the current level of hyperbole, hysteria and controversy surrounding "The Da Vinci Code", the Presbyterian Church make back away from this idea.


41 posted on 06/20/2006 5:30:07 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: pageonetoo
"This does not alter the church's theological position, but provides an educational resource to enhance the spiritual life of our membership,"

Sounds like something from the barn wall in Animal Farm.
42 posted on 06/20/2006 5:33:20 AM PDT by smug (Tanstaafl)
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To: butternut_squash_bisque
At some Presbyterian churches the Holy Trinity -- "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- will be out. "Mother, Child and Womb" is in.

If they're not interested in how Jesus portrayed God, and the Paraclete, in the Scriptures, then they are just the newest branch of "The Church of What's Happening Now", and have declared themselves irrelevant to Christianity.

43 posted on 06/20/2006 5:38:50 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: butternut_squash_bisque

Sign up required; couldn't find my BUGMENOT notes.


44 posted on 06/20/2006 5:38:50 AM PDT by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help m)
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To: Hegemony Cricket

"Because that's what it's all about, after all - inner peace."

________________________________________________________


LOL, I do believe that line of thinking could earn some fans (followers) over at DU!



45 posted on 06/20/2006 5:39:52 AM PDT by VRWCer (All things work together for good to them that love God. - Romans 8:28)
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To: RoadTest
I ended up in the AG"

AG- Assemblies of God?

46 posted on 06/20/2006 5:40:36 AM PDT by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?" (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help m)
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To: butternut_squash_bisque

"This does not alter the church's theological position".

Uhh, if you won't call it what the bible calls it, then you are altering the teaching of the scriptures.

It appears the Presbyterian Church is running off the cliff on the liberal end of the spectrum.


47 posted on 06/20/2006 5:41:43 AM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right....)
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To: ThanhPhero
OH!!! That's what it is! All this time I have been reading it dyslexically as CPUSA. I thought it was the Commies pretending like they got Religion.

Actually, you had it right. They are Commies pretending to be religious.

48 posted on 06/20/2006 5:44:55 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: SuziQ
"Mother, Child, and WOmb."

The Holy Spirit is not a uterus. Not only is that a ridiculous description of the Trinity, but it comes pretty close to blasphemy, if you ask me.

49 posted on 06/20/2006 5:45:58 AM PDT by Miss Marple (Lord, please look after Mozart Lover's and Jemian's sons and keep them strong.)
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To: butternut_squash_bisque

How anti-christian of them. Fits nicely with their women bishops.


50 posted on 06/20/2006 5:46:47 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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