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A Message to All the Cut and Run Freepers Currently Polluting Free Republic
Friday, November 24, 2006 | Kristinn

Posted on 11/24/2006 6:46:08 PM PST by kristinn

I'm reading an astonishing number of comments on Free Republic these days by posters who have joined the ranks of the anti-American left in calling for an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. Some claim to have military experience, some claim to be patriotic Americans and some claim to be smarter than the rest.

These posters are joining the Murtha-Rangel-McDermott treason caucus. Oh, they say they love the troops, but their decision to abandon them in the field speaks otherwise.

Three years ago, the United States led an international coalition to rid the world of one of the worst regimes on the planet. Saddam Hussein was an international terrorist: He financed terrorism, he trained terrorists and he harbored terrorists. He waged war on Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Israel. He waged war on the people of Iraq, including genocidal campaigns against the Kurds in the north and the marsh Arabs in the south.

Saddam successfully subverted the Oil-for-Food program and was wearing down support for continuing the sanctions keeping him in check.

He had numerous contacts with al Qaeda over the years. He tried to assassinate a former U.S. president. He maintained research capabilities to implement nuclear, chemical and biological weapons as soon as the sanctions were lifted. There is evidence that some of these programs would have been operational within a year even with the sanctions in place.

The decision to remove Saddam and his regime as part of the Global War on Terror was correct.

Three-and-a-half years after Iraq and the world were liberated from Saddam and his terrorist regime, there are those on Free Republic who are clamoring to give up, surrender, cut and run, stab the troops in the back, betray the Iraqis, betray our allies in the GWOT, spit on the graves of our fallen heroes and join Cindy Sheehan, Medea Benjamin and Ramsey Clark in bringing about America's defeat in the GWOT.

It's only been three-and-a-half years--only six months since the freely elected government in Iraq was formed. In that time, what has been called a mini-Marshall Plan of construction and reconstruction has come to fruition. The Iraqis have held three national elections, they have held numerous local elections, fourteen out of eighteen Iraq provinces are relatively peaceful and stable.

Six months ago, when the Iraqi government was formed, the experts said the war would be taken to Baghdad because our enemies in the region could not abide the example of a free, democratic society in the Middle East. For once, the experts were right. The battle of Baghdad has been a prolonged Tet Offensive style operation of headline-grabbing attacks intended to sap the morale of Americans and Iraqis alike.

From what I've been reading on Free Republic lately, a lot of Freepers have fallen for the enemy's ploy and are howling like barking moonbats for our immediate withdrawal from Iraq. Some of that talk is couched in talk of 'we're fighting a PC war like Vietnam!' The soldiers I met in Iraq recently told Debra Argel Bastian to pass on a message to the Vietnam vets criticizing the war: With all due respect to your service, this is not Vietnam. It is not being fought like Vietnam. Please let us finish our mission.

But our enemy is playing the Vietnam ploy to great benefit. They know they can count on the American and world media to broadcast their propaganda. They work with leftist Americans to sabotage the war effort at home. They know these leftist Americans have allies in the Democratic party. They know they do not need a military victory--only political and psychological victories are needed to defeat America.

You guys are playing right in to their hands. Congratulations.

There are those who argue that murder and dictatorship is the mindset of the Middle East and that will not be changed by our actions. Funny how those who smugly denigrate the Arab peoples' capacity for freedom forget the wholesale slaughter of millions of Westerners by Westerners at the hands of Western dictatorships just a few generations past.

I hear complaints that the Iraqis aren't standing up. Yet, to use one common example, when police recruits are slaughtered in bombings, Iraqis line up the next day at the same recruiting center. The insurgency is small in number, but they are able to do enough damage on a daily basis to stretch out the time it will take to secure the whole of Iraq.

At this time of our testing, the American people are starting to go wobbly. Sadly, many Freepers are too. Our troops and their Commander-in-Chief are not, thank God. It's only been three-and-a-half years. The progress made has been phenomonal. Throw in the towel now, and you'll just have the terrorists follow us home. Everyone knows that, including you. I'm not willing to pay that price, not now, not ever, but you are.

Let me close by offering similar sentiments recently offered by two men 'in the know' on the situation in Iraq who are not giving up. First, Kurdish Regional Government Prime Minister Barzani: "When I was in the United States recently and read the negative news in the Washington Post, New York Times and in the network TV broadcasts, I even wondered if things had gotten so bad since I had left that I shouldn't return."

Next, Gen. Abizaid: "When I come to Washington, I feel despair. When I'm in Iraq with my commanders, when I talk to our soldiers, when I talk to the Iraqi leadership, they are not despairing."


TOPICS: News/Current Events; War on Terror; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: baghdadbobsaysiraqok; bushcultists; bushhaterswin; conservativesdontrun; cutandrun; cutandrunfleepers; fr; freeper; freepers; freerepublic; gloc; iraq; iraqbackstabbers; lbackstabbers; lexicon
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To: MaineVoter2002
Here's what we're dealing with: No pursuit into mosques without Iraqi troops. Loudspeakers in mosques permitted to broadcast prayers for the defeat of America.

I don't see that in this copy of a Jan 03 ROE for U.S. Military Forces in Iraq.

Do you have a source to support your statement?

1,981 posted on 11/26/2006 8:57:59 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: The Old Hoosier
Things were not wonderful under Saddam. They aren't wonderful now, either. But back then, they were stable. Now they are not. Before, you were less likely to be blown up on the street.

Probably because the people living under Saddam's thumb weren't allowed such "freedoms" to blow themselves and everyone else around them up, because even having something simple as a pistol in your possession meant a death sentence.

Under a dictatorship, you either tow the line or die.

1,982 posted on 11/26/2006 8:58:32 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (There is no alternative to the GOP except varying degrees of insanity)
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To: Jibaholic

Premise #1: Muslims are not capable of making Democracy work
I tend to agree with you on that point my friend.
I believe that if you're gong to fight everyone has to die , everything has to be destroyed ( as in dresden ) otherwise it drags on forever . Americans never stood by long wars.


1,983 posted on 11/26/2006 8:59:43 PM PST by sonic109
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To: ohioWfan; jan in Colorado
Cock-a-doodle-doo... I surrender!


1,984 posted on 11/26/2006 9:00:04 PM PST by Fred Nerks (MEDIA + ENEMY = ENEMEDIA!)
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To: Fred Nerks

You owe me a new keyboard!


1,985 posted on 11/26/2006 9:04:26 PM PST by jan in Colorado (God Bless our troops and their families)
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To: FreeReign

One of the major complaints out soldiers have is the confusion of the ROE because they're changing almost daily. If your copy is jan. 2003, you may as well toss it. It's obsolete


1,986 posted on 11/26/2006 9:05:08 PM PST by MaineVoter2002
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To: FreeReign

Jan 2003 predates the invasion of Iraq. The ROE would completely worthless now, since we're now dealing with insurgents.


1,987 posted on 11/26/2006 9:08:20 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (There is no alternative to the GOP except varying degrees of insanity)
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To: MaineVoter2002; FreeReign
One of the major complaints out soldiers have is the confusion of the ROE because they're changing almost daily. If your copy is jan. 2003, you may as well toss it. It's obsolete

Engaging the enemy doesn't change overall. Our troops are told not to destroy property, even if that means a gold domed mosque, or schools, or hospitals, which are used by our enemy to store large weapons caches, because they know our troops have a set of rules to abide by.

1,988 posted on 11/26/2006 9:11:21 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (There is no alternative to the GOP except varying degrees of insanity)
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To: Steve Van Doorn
How are you going to get the American people to back you on this? It would seem at present the terrorist are not terrorizing the American people enough to hold our ground that we have.

We can thank God and Bush for that.

The orders for bombing Iran should be divulged to the big four in a closed meeting with the Prez and VP one day before the bombing. The purpose of the meeting is FYI only not to take their permission. Klintoon didn't and never went to the UN before the Balkan war. We can't afford the liberal leaks and the Sy Hersch crowd warning the Iranians. This is not a poll taking exercise and it is essential that Bush does this before leaving office because he shouldn't trust a RAT or McPain_in_the_poopa to do it.

I am saying the American people need a bloody face before we are willing do what must be done in that part of the world.

I repeat, thank God and Bush we didn't get a bloody face. However, I wouldn't sell the American people short, they will understand when all of a sudden things calm down in Gaza, Lebanon, Syria capitulates, al Sadr is marginalized or killed, and no more threat from Iran. Guess what else: the 6-party talks will become a real party! LOL

In addition, it's a huge message to Russia and China: we're the ONLY superpower and it will remain that way. Let them sell their hardware to somebody else and they should be careful about what they sell.

I pray somebody is listening.

1,989 posted on 11/26/2006 9:15:08 PM PST by melancholy
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To: MaineVoter2002
If you state that you support open borders, they'll stop calling you a troll

Ain't that the truth. I'm a border bot myself and if they don't like it, they can lump it. My country means more to me than their opinion of me.

1,990 posted on 11/26/2006 9:32:01 PM PST by processing please hold
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To: livius
"prove that a purely civil, non-partisan government could work. This would provide an example of stability for the region, in theory.

Personally, I'm not sure it can,"

I agree with you. I think that was an overly ambitious and optimistic aspiration, given the history and culture of this area.

"But whatever we do, we have to be perceived as winning, or this is going to lead to even worse things in the future for all concerned."

No question about it. The Islamists are watching and waiting to take any propaganda benefit they can from this situation if we are perceived as having failed.
1,991 posted on 11/26/2006 9:33:58 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: livius

"that may mean no more Mr. Nice Guy."

You don't win wars by being Mr. Nice Guy. SOmething the Democraps can't seem to realize.


1,992 posted on 11/26/2006 9:35:33 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: Sir Gawain

It starts in the schools.

American children are taught that patriotism is passe, that cultures are relative, that western civilization is evil, etc.

This is reinfornced by the major media and mainstream churches and the result is generations of Americans who have lost their moral and social compasses.


1,993 posted on 11/26/2006 9:37:26 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: kkmo9

bookmark


1,994 posted on 11/26/2006 9:55:09 PM PST by kkmo9 ("My grandmother wanted me to have an education, so she kept me out of school." Margaret Mead)
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To: ZULU
What too many Americans fail to realize is that the war in IRaq is really a battle ina greater war against Islam.

Until many American's wake up and realize what Iraq is part of, every conflaguration up to that point will be an uphill slog. Many American's don't have the courage, faith and conviction to look terrorism in the face and erradicate the scourage that is terrorism, off the face of the earth. We're not engaged in a Global War On Islam, we're engaged in a Global War On Terror. That's where the "Axis Of Evil" is significant.

1,995 posted on 11/26/2006 10:04:58 PM PST by BigSkyFreeper (There is no alternative to the GOP except varying degrees of insanity)
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To: Fishrrman
"But I've come to the conclusion that there is nothing more we can do to achieve "victory" in Iraq, for what it's worth."

What you are saying is true, had we pulled out right after accomplishing th goals you enumerated. However, if even if did leave Iraq under such circumstances, we still have the problem of Iran and Syria.

One of the many reasons for taking out Saddam and invading Iraq, should have been using it and Afghanistan to eliminate the Ayatollahs in Iran, and using Israel to help us clean out the Baathists in Syria. Where we failed was in turning a punitive expedition in force into a social service experiment, using American money and lives.

"So what was one of the first things they did?

They wrote into their constitution that Islam would be the state religion.

When I saw that, I realized that our efforts were doomed to go down the drain.

The closest analogy I could make is permitting the Germans to freely re-elect the Nazis to power after their defeat in World War II."

VERY WELL SAID. Which is one of the reasons we should never have gotten into a quagmire there, of trying to treat these savages like civilized people. They are savages, regardless of how politely they may speak or how educated they may appear. They are savages because they are driven by a primitive cult, masquerading as a religion, which drives their entire world view on every subject.

In our dealings with them, our own, immediate best interests should not be paramount, they should be exclusive. As long as these people follow Islam, and as long as they do not modernize their faith, they will never change their behavior patterns.

We have even witnessed the weasel who officiates Iraq running off to make nice with the Ayatollahs and Baathists.

"But if the war in Iraq is but a battle in a greater war with Islam, why in tarnation did we permit it to remain an intolerant Islamic state? This is "victory"? What might BE "victory"?"

Good question. Short of forcibly converting these savages, the best we can hope to do is isolate them in their own countries, remove them from those countires they have already invaded, and draw a line in the sand beyond which they cannot cross without immediate military consequences the results of which would be far too painful for even these fanatics to bear.

I have long been an advocate of getting Muslims out of the United States, stopping their immigration here, and shutting down their madrasshes and mosques. The same thing must be done in western Europe, in subsaharan Africa and in those areas of Asia not already domianted by Islam.

The time for tolerance and negotiating with these people has come and gone.

They are committed to dominating the world and forcibly converting all non-Muslims or reducing them to second class citizenship. Unless the entire non-Sialmic world - Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, etc, wake up and face this, their children will grow up in a country which looks very much like what Afghanistan did under the Taliban, or Saudi Arabia looks like today.
1,996 posted on 11/26/2006 10:14:28 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: hinckley buzzard

"Even if it was a good idea, which it is not, Iraq is not ours to divide. They elected a sovereign government, you will recall, and the Iraqis themselves don't consider this option."

The pros and cons of dividing Iraq have been disputed for some time. AS you can see from my posting I believe they have some merit, but I also understand the dangers involved as expressed by those who opposed it.

However, Iraq BECAME ours by right of conquest. The mistake we made there was treating the situation in a manner any different than NAZI Germany after WW2.

We won, they lost. We should make the rules and they should abide by them or face dire consequences.

When we get away from that line of thinking, we get embroiled in liberal philophical nonesense - the kind of tripe that created Viet Nam.


1,997 posted on 11/26/2006 10:23:30 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: Steve Van Doorn

Correction: we know that someone wrote a classified memo about recruiting suicide bombers, including bombers who could hit American interests. We don't know whether they tried to recruit, and if they did, how many recruits they got. If they ever got any, what happened to them? How come none of them ever came to bomb our interests?

We certainly didn't know any of this before the war.

On the other hand, will we invade any country that secretly recruits suicide bombers this way? I'd be willing to guess that there are several.


1,998 posted on 11/26/2006 10:38:40 PM PST by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might)
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To: BigSkyFreeper

Okay, but we've just foisted "freedom" upon a people that isn't culturally attuned to Western freedoms. The people there seem uninterested, unable and unwilling to exercise it responsibly.

Given that, can we say they're better off now that they're less safe and live in great instability, than they were when they lived under an authoritarian regime but they weren't getting blown up every day?

I really don't know the answer to that question, but I do know that the instability sucks for us, since it means we have to stay there without an end in sight.


1,999 posted on 11/26/2006 10:42:59 PM PST by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might)
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To: I see my hands

Nice non-argument. You're sure a smart fella.

I assume you think it's a good thing the Iraqi Christians are being forced to move to other countries. Our policymakers do bear some responsibility for the consequences of the invasion -- both good and bad -- don't they?


2,000 posted on 11/26/2006 10:46:36 PM PST by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might)
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