Will FR embrace socialism to make way for Rudy Giuliani as a Republican presidential candidate?

We've got some real challenges facing us. FR was established to fight against government corruption, overstepping, and abuse and to fight for a return to the limited constitutional government as envisioned and set forth by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other founding documents.

One of the biggest cases of government corruption, overstepping and abuse that I know of is its disgraceful headlong slide into a socialist hell. Our founders never intended for abortion to be the law of the land. And they never intended the Supreme Court to be a legislative body. They never intended God or religion to be written out of public life. They never intended government to be used to deny God's existence or for government to be used to force sexual perversions onto our society or into our children's education curriculum. They never intend for government to disarm the people. They never intended for government to set up sanctuary cities for illegals. They never intended government to “rule” over the people and or to take their earnings or private property or to deprive them of their constitutional rights to free speech, free religion, private property, due process, etc. They never intended government to seize the private property of private citizens through draconian asset forfeiture laws or laws allowing government to take private property from lawful owners to give to developers. Or to seize wealth and redistribute it to others. Or to provide government forced health insurance or government forced retirement systems.

All of the above are examples of ever expanding socialism and tyranny brought to us by liberals/liberalism.

FR fights against the liberals/Democrats in all of these areas and always will. Now if liberalism infiltrates into the Republican party and Republicans start promoting all this socialist garbage, do you think that I or FR will suddenly stop fighting against it? Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?

Those are great comments Mark, and I agree that the irrational fear of Hillary has caused many (if not all) of the posters I refer to as ‘RudyBots’ to abandon whatever common sense they might have.

And once common sense is abandoned, it is nearly impossible to reason with someone who has allowed themselves to be lured and seduced into believing all of the claptrap that passes for ‘pro-Rudy’ arguments.

Rudy Giuliani could very well be the best definition of the term ‘RINO’ that ever came down the pike. Spiff did as much as anyone to expose the hypocrisy of Giuliani with his comparison chart (which was hooted at and derided by the RudyTooters), and yet even when presented with hard, cold EVIDENCE of Rudy’s leftist tendencies based on his OWN WORDS, the zombies are unable to face reality because they remain under the spell of the media-created ‘America’s Heroic 9/11 Mayor’ image.

OK, Rudy did in fact rise to the occasion on 9/11. Nobody is contesting that. But truth be told, what Rudy did is the VERY same thing that ANY mayor of a major metropolitan city would have been expected to do if perchance al-Qaeda had chosen a target OTHER than New York City to crash airliners into. If (for example) 9/11 had seen the Sears Tower in Chicago coming down in flames instead of the WTC, I think that Mayor Richard Daley would very likely have performed as well as Giuliani, and I don’t care if Daley is a Democrat or not, he is as responsible for his city, as Giuliani was for NYC. On 9/11, it wasn’t about political party affiliation, it was about doing one’s duty when faced with a crisis.

But would a heroic performance by Mayor Daley have made him presidential material?

I doubt it. Once you get back to ‘normal’ business, Daley is still a corrupt political hack who did his damnedest to try and help Al Gore steal the 2000 election, and nothing is ever going to erase that disgraceful behavior from his history. Likewise, if you take away the 9/11 experience from Giuliani, he too, is just one more arrogant and belligerent big city mayor, a big-spending liberal who thinks murdering children in the womb is a ‘constitutional right’, that is all too eager to march alongside homosexuals in their NAMBLA-infested parades, whose own personal behavior would be right at home in Hugh Hefner’s Playboy Mansion.

But to return to the main theme of your post Mark, what causes people to abandon true conservative principles in favor of a fake so-called 'conservative' whose only claim to fame is that he happened to be the Mayor of New York on 9/11?

The answer is FEAR. Fear of Hillary. Fear of the Clintons. Fear of the left. Fear of liberals. And I'm not saying that those things should NOT be feared, they should be viewed as one views a rattlesnake under your house, sooner or later that snake is going to strike and when it does, it doesn't care if it's you, your spouse, your children, friends, etc., it is going to strike. But you don't prevent such a snakebite by going out into the desert to find yourself another rattlesnake with the idea that if you throw a second snake under your house, that it will of course fight, bite and kill the first snake.

No, what you'll end up with if you follow that kind of insane strategy, is at the least, TWO venomous snakes who will be capable of biting TWICE the number of victims than before, and at the worst, they'll copulate and make lots of little baby rattlesnakes, and by that time your house is going to be all but inhabitable.

Hillary is a damn snake. No argument. She is every bit (but not quite) the sociopath that her depraved and amoral spouse is, if anything she is colder because while Bill Clinton was defiling and disgracing everything honorable about the Presidency, he was still throwing around that old 'awww shucks' good ol' boy jive, grinnin' away "cause he just cain't hep himself" and too many people bought into that crap (and ignored the one dead on comment that Bob Dole ever made in the '96 campaign when he said "where is the outrage?"). Hillary has absolutely no warmth, real or feigned.

But make no mistake about it: Rudy Giuliani is every bit the same kind of snake that Hillary OR Bill Clinton is, with the exception that he has no Southern accent (real with Bill, fake in Hillary's case). Giuliani was the Clinton 'go to guy' when it came to opposing a ban on partial birth abortion. Giuliani was the guy the Clintons could rely on when it came to undermining the Second Amendment. Giuliani himself said that his positions were "very much like Clinton's", and after the '96 election, Giuliani wasn't at all disappointed with Bob Dole going down to defeat, in fact he said words to the effect that not only had the Clintons done 'good things' for America, he said that Bill Clinton was a 'good and decent man'.

So it boils down to the question: HOW can any true conservative even CONSIDER voting for someone who views the Clintons as someone they have much in common with, who views them as 'good and decent'?

On another thread from Wednesday, 'Christians for Giuliani', one Freeper who still retained their sense made the observation "Christians for Giuliani? That's like Jews for Hitler!" And the comparison could not be more apt. Every single one of Rudy Giuliani's positions is (or should be) totally incompatible and unacceptable to ANY professing Christian, ESPECIALLY his life long support for infanticide, even up to and including the moment before a baby clears the birth canal to enter this world, Rudy Giuliani thought it more important to preserve some 'right' on the part of the mother to have a doctor jam a pair of scissors into the base of the skull of the almost born child, suck out it's brain, and then discard the dead body like garbage.

That is (in the words of Freeper Dr.Zoidberg) every bit as monstrous as something Charles Manson would dream up, in fact there is very little difference between such a barbaric act, and the genocidal insanity that swept millions of Jews into Auschwitz. Rudy Giuliani has stated that the murder of an unborn child isn't as serious a matter as murdering a child already living.

If there is to be 'fear', it should be on the part of every pregnant woman in America, to think that such a eugenicist-minded, murder-condoning, amoral SOB like Rudy Giuliani is being touted as the GOP's only way to win in 2008, because he thinks their unborn child is less than human until it makes it out of their body and into the world.

Until then, that unborn baby is fair game for the abortion-lobby NARAL and THEIR 'go to guy', Rudy Giuliani.

Rudy Giuliani is the wet dream of America's disgraceful 'culture of death', and he has to be stopped.

“So the American people want abortions federally funded.” The context of that was that IF it was a constitutional right then... Most Americans probably would not support that but I would say that at least 40% would.

“So the American people want radical “Act Up” gays influencing our society and exposing our children to this “accepted behavior”.” That is a exaggerated picture of his beliefs in this area. But again there is a large percentage which would agree with your caricature.

“So Americans want illegal criminals immigrants getting aid and be protected by mayors like Giuliani all over this country?” That was part of the price of Giuliani being able to reduce the crime rate in NY so most big city dwellers would likely say it was worth it and welfare was not expanded under him but REDUCED. Surely you are aware that the policies of NYC at that time are almost identical with those of large cities all across the Country. Their voters apparently could care less since they keep electing mayors who do exactly the same thing.

But I am not defending any of these policies per se and have plenty of disagreements with the Mayor. I have said the same thing all along and that is I just don’t see anyone being able to take the nomination from him given the state of politics in America today. This has apparently become a Thought Crime.

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