Posted on 04/21/2007 6:42:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
We've got some real challenges facing us. FR was established to fight against government corruption, overstepping, and abuse and to fight for a return to the limited constitutional government as envisioned and set forth by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other founding documents.
One of the biggest cases of government corruption, overstepping and abuse that I know of is its disgraceful headlong slide into a socialist hell. Our founders never intended for abortion to be the law of the land. And they never intended the Supreme Court to be a legislative body. They never intended God or religion to be written out of public life. They never intended government to be used to deny God's existence or for government to be used to force sexual perversions onto our society or into our children's education curriculum. They never intend for government to disarm the people. They never intended for government to set up sanctuary cities for illegals. They never intended government to “rule” over the people and or to take their earnings or private property or to deprive them of their constitutional rights to free speech, free religion, private property, due process, etc. They never intended government to seize the private property of private citizens through draconian asset forfeiture laws or laws allowing government to take private property from lawful owners to give to developers. Or to seize wealth and redistribute it to others. Or to provide government forced health insurance or government forced retirement systems.
All of the above are examples of ever expanding socialism and tyranny brought to us by liberals/liberalism.
FR fights against the liberals/Democrats in all of these areas and always will. Now if liberalism infiltrates into the Republican party and Republicans start promoting all this socialist garbage, do you think that I or FR will suddenly stop fighting against it? Do you think I'm going to bow down and accept abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, global warming, illegal alien lawbreakers, gun control, asset forfeiture, socialism, tyranny, totalitarianism, etc, etc, etc, just so some fancy New York liberal lawyer can become president from the Republican party?
Do you really expect me to do that?
Reduced to citing the self-serving slithering snake in the grass known as Mojo? The guy is a legend in his own mind.
Looks like the kittens were just playing with the mouse before dispatching it.
No one is much disputing that Giuliani cleaned up New York. We are disputing some of the details and some are pointing out that the end was not justified by the means in which he did it. Some are of the opinion that while he cleaned up NYC, some of his methods and governance were socialistic in nature. Stopping crime and cleaning up the streets is easy if you are a dictatorial authoritarian who denies citizens some of their basic freedoms.
By all means, try to get your candidate popular to the majority. But you’ll also have to convince people that your priorities trump that of terror, crime, and other issues where Giuliani has a proven record.
Why, that's a great idea! So, the owner of this forum realized that his forum was being hijacked by those who want to keep their liberal candidate, whose views and positions are in opposition to the conservative values of this forum, and the owner decided to clear the decks so that the candidates who better represent the stated values of this forum could be promoted by the users of this forum without disruption or discouragement. Get it? And to better balance the playing field to give the conservative candidates the help they need, we have to knock Giuliani down a few notches by educating as many people as possible about his liberal views and his liberal record as Mayor of NYC.
It always amazes me how someone can be here as long as you have and still act like this is a republican forum, it’s not. We are conservatives first, and republicans second (for the most part). Conservatives have principles—and they stick to them—even if that means they vote third party—or don’t vote at all. If you have a problem with that then maybe it’s time for you to consider joining a republican forum. I think you’ll have a lot more in common with your fellow republicans.
What I observed from this forum on this thread, was a few self anointed ones, obviously with your support, continually baiting and pushing and ultimately winning their coveted zap. If folks from another forum wanted a fight, you, sir and you alone, made the decision to engage. I hope you are happy with the results.
I had read and posted to several of the Rudy threads and it seemed to me that they were running out of steam. Conservatives were gradually winning by simply posting the facts about Giuliani. I recall a few former Rudy supporters who "saw the light" simply by becoming informed. (Which is what this forum does best.)
OK, the squeegee boys make another appearance. Great for mayors, a little different for CiC's. Don;t get me started on the role of the federal government in law enforcement -- you'll find my libertarian streak usually makes an appearance around then.
and tough on terror,
There have been at least 100 requests for the basis of that statement on this thread alone, plus untold others on previous threads and I have yet to see an adequate answer. I am really trying to not be smarmy, but from I have seen, the JulieAnnie supporters have put on their emerald slippers, tapped the heels three times while chanting "he's tough on terror" and {poof} its true.
He is not a socialist.
No, but he is a social liberal. As much a social liberal as any 'rat running. And since I have to shave, I need to retain my ability to look in the mirror. I can't vote for a candidate that gives a thumbs up to murdering babies.
I need more than ghost stories about the Chthullo boogeyman and what will happen to the CIA; and I'll go you one better -- the 'rats took over congress last time by running to the right of the GOP candidate and if the GOP drinks the Rudy kool-aid, Hillary will demolish him in the general by doing the same thing.
Just a question -- RG's positions on 2nd Amendment/RTKBA, abortion, gay marriage, etc. -- are those OK with you?
“Also, Mr. Barset has left the building “
It’s my pleasure, and I hope he/she finds some peace of mind.
I like to hear you speak like this. I couldn't agree more.
Amen.
Wow. In a word, NO.
Unless you are a fire-breathing domestic terrorist who fights with bloodthirsty zeal every opposing view he sees, I'd say you have a bit of 'diversity' in you too.
For example "Abortion?" A social conservative looks at abortion as a sin against God and humanity. A republican conservative (small r's/c's) sees abortion restrictions as purview of the State lege's and the State communities, and accepts that other states (like California) might be the Devil's own lair and to hell with them, nothing one can do about other people's lives. And conversely, the Federalist might believe that Supreme Court dicta federalizing the issue and imposing uniformity across the country is good, as long as the court decides the right way.
As a law-and-order conservative, and as a true Christian, you might accept that murderous abortions go on every day just as other crimes do, with your tacit consent, though you wish it were otherwise.
Just because you're not bombing abortion clinics and taking pot shots at doctors, your philosophy can still diverge from someone's ideal of "true" conservatism.
"Diversity" is a word with meaning. It has meaning in philosophy, electrical engineering, science, etc. Diverstity does not ONLY mean 'racial/sexual diversity' like the libs have taught you.
PLEASE do not gift this word to the leftists unliaterally the way we gave them the color BLUE for the maps!
bttt
Thank you. It's my new tag-line.
Excellent!
You’re more than welcome. :)
I'm sorry, that's not clear at all to me.
First you say, Rudy is not as good a candidate as you thought; but you'll vote for him despite his faults. OK, sometimes we hold our nose when we vote.
But then you promise "heaps of derision and abuse on anyone who breaks ranks..." That's not just holding your nose any more, that's going to war FOR a bad candidate and AGAINST others who stick to principle, and indeed, AGAINST the very principles that make the Republican Party worth voting for.
Two things will follow. 1) You're selling out Republicanism to expediency and lust for power. 2) You'll lose anyway.
I have witnessed some of the most vile sociopathic behavior in my life the past week from people who are claiming to be pro-God, pro-life, pro-Liberty, anti-liberal Bug Zappers. The hypocrisy and insanity of their behavior is astounding. Invoking God in a mission to humiliate and taunt people who have contributed significant time and effort to this forum and the conservative cause is sick, and a poor reflection of what I understand to be FR's mission.
Jim, this isn't a debate, or swaying views by persuasive argument. It is gangbanger behavior. Instead of healing, the gangbangers are patting themselves on the backs for beating up everyone not in their clique, including solid conservatives who never even heard of WideAwakes and the like until the past week.
I wonder many pro-God, pro-life, pro-Liberty, anti-liberal conservatives are collateral damage from this decision.
Haven't we been down this road before? By all means, if I'm so liberal, please, for clarity's sake enumerate my liberal positions. In the absence of that, quite making a fool of yourself and just shut up for a change.
That's a fair question, and I'm happy to answer it. What I fear more than anything (political) is the death of the two party system. IMHO, it would be nothing but disaster.
I've seen multi-party systems, and they're always horrid. Italy comes readily to mind. Hell, Slick comes to mind. He was the product of a multi-party system. 43% of the vote is less than a majority, but when you have 3 candidates grabbing for votes, it's easy to wind up with a winner that more people voted against than voted for.
So, it's not that I don't respect your RIGHT to direct your vote as you see fit. It's that I absolutely fear the demise of the two party system. No good can come of it, no good at all.
Wow, it's gotten way worse than I thought. Republicans are being shown the door now, and it's suggested that we (Republicans) would be happier with our own kind? Who turned the world upside down?
There are still some Giuliani supporters around - the main Rudy thread poster areafiftyone is still here.
However, the folks who sought to trash Fred in order to try and make Rudy look better largely have been shown the door.
We didn't need flocks of Clinton supporters here on FR to post the pro-Clinton dreck in the media back in 1999. Likewise, we don't need two-faced Rudy supporters to have the pro-Rudy pap posted here as well.
After all, the Rudy supporters were down to about ten or so talking points, and it was getting really old knocking them down time and time and time again.
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