Wake up Conservative Base!

[PugetSoundSoldier]

OK, how about the Boren-Goldwater bill to limit campaign financing a la McCain-Feingold? Never made it to President Reagan's desk (died in the House), but he supported it.

McCain-Leiberman? How about President Reagan supporting and endorsing the Venice Economic Summit (1987) including its calls to "encourage efforts to tackle effectively environmental problems of worldwide impact such as stratospheric ozone depletion, climate change, acid rains, endangered species, hazardous substances, air and water pollution and destruction of tropical forests."

Gang of 14? Reagan compromised plenty, and worked with the Democrat-controlled Congress to get his agenda through. See the quote earlier in this thread.

Amnesty - yes, he SIGNED IT. Made it law. At least the current Administration is actually BUILDING fences...

So please, go on... It appears that you forget some of the actions of Reagan and simply want to whine and pout that you didn't get your chosen candidate, so rather than support someone you agree with on a multitude of issues (pro-life, strong military, low taxes, reduced government spending - need we go on?) you'll gladly support an Obama or Hillary presidency.

You don't have another choice - you choose not to support McCain you are de-facto supporting Obama or Hillary. And you're ignoring the vast number of issues you agree with McCain on.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

I don’t recall Reagan-Feingold. Nor Reagan-Lieberman. Nor Reagan being part of a Gang of 14. And nope, no Reagan-Kennedy, although he signed an amnesty expecting the Dems to follow through on their promise to secure the border. According to Ed Meese, that was one of the biggest regrets Reagan had about his tenure as President. McCain, in contrast, is still pushing for amnesty, although he is loathe to call it that.

Let’s see.. .there’s also no Reagan bill calling for the Interior Dept. to scout locations for a national monument to Cesar Chavez, either. Shall I go on?

Ouch! Now, THAT one's gonna leave a welt! ;)

[Grunthor]

It’s an odd time to be sure. I wonder if these Mcainiacs have ever considered the idea that just maybe, WE haven’t changed, the party has and WE have no obligation to whore out our beliefs and principles just because THEY have none.

[stockpirate]

It’s time for all conservatives to trust God and stand on our values.

We do do need McCain, he needs us.

We are not McCains base, he treats us like his door mat.

For years we have wondered how blacks vote for democrats year after year when in fact we alllow the RINO leaders of the Republican National Socialist Party to wipe their feet on us.

We need to stand firm and not waver, if McCain wants our votes he knows damn well where and how to find us.

This great nation of ours can and will survive, even the likes of Obama.

We must not give in to one of the two socialist party’s in America.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

McCain, in contrast, is still pushing for amnesty, although he is loathe to call it that.

Of course, you know that is a lie:

McCain would NOT support his bill from 2006

But I suppose you'll just label him a "flip-flopper" like you've never changed your mind ever. Just like President Reagan - who actually SIGNED INTO LAW AMNESTY - changed his mind. I guess he was a gutless flip-flopper, too?

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

WE have no obligation to whore out our beliefs and principles just because THEY have none.

Yup. Reminds me of a story Groucho Marx used to tell, about a dinner party conversation he'd once had:

****************

Groucho Marx (to pretty lady at dinner): Would you sleep with tonight me for $52 million?

Pretty Lady (laughing): Of course!

Groucho (leering wildly): How about for $10?

Lady: Mr. Marx! What sort of girl do you think I am, anyway?!?

Groucho: We've already established what sort of girl you are. Now we're just haggling over the price.

*****************

In precisely the same fashion: Team Juan's shills have just as plainly established what they are, as well. ;)

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

McCain would NOT support his bill from 2006

Why on earth would you expect me to believe anything stated by a demonstrable liar?

[PugetSoundSoldier]

Define amnesty.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

Define amnesty.

Asked whether he would do anything about illegal alien sanctuary cities, he [McCain] shrugged off the question by muttering that “of course” he didn’t approve of them (but was silent on taking any proactive measures to cut off their funding). Having dispensed with that, McCain then quickly gave his new slippery, flip-flop formulation about how we need to “secure the borders” AND have “comprehensive immigration enforcement/” “temporary guest work plan” (translation: amnesty) and “deal with the 12 million people already here” (translation: give them amnesty, DREAM Act, sanctuary, driver’s licenses, bank accounts, home loans, etc., etc., etc.)

But you already knew all of this, of course.

Answer the question, please: "Why on earth would you expect me to believe anything stated by a demonstrable liar?"

[humblegunner]

with the Senate likely being a couple of RHINOs away from the magic 60.

So tell me.. what does RHINO stand for?

I know RINO stands for "Republican In Name Only."

I'm curious about this new term you use.

Or are you just ignorant and repeating things you've heard but cannot define?

[PugetSoundSoldier]

OK, so your own quote does NOT show him using the word amnesty, nor even providing the true amnesty offered by and signed into law by President Reagan. And it does not meet the definition of amnesty found in the dictionary. But you go right ahead and define it as you like...

So about your question - he's a demonstrable liar if:

1. We make up a new definition for amnesty
2. We decide what McCain originally supported was equal to what President Reagan (presumed not to be a demonstrable liar, since you hold him up as the paragon of Presidential ability) actually supported and signed into law
3. We ignore that McCain has chosen to change his mind, and that by changing one's mind you become a liar

So I guess you're a demonstrable liar too, since your own post here and the link you used falsely states the man's own statements and positions?

So I guess in a roundabout way is that I can't answer the question because the premise of the question itself is false - the questioner is the liar, in this case.

[FocusNexus]

This November the choice is NOT between Reagan and McCain, it’s between McCain or Obama/(poss. Hillary.

So what is your point?

Do you prefer Obama or Hillary as president, with a Dem Congress, than McCain?

Wishes don’t change reality.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

OK, so your own quote does NOT show him using the word amnesty

OMFG!!! That's your definition of "amnesty" (and your defense), then? "He didn't actually use the word amnesty" -- ?!?

Sorry, but I just couldn't continue any further, after that. "He didn't actually use the word amnesty..." That wouldn't even pass muster as genuine rebuttal by junior high school debate team standards! And you actually have the sack to accuse others of "redefining terms" -- ?!?

Oh, I am so going to be pressing this one into my scrapbook, tonight! ROTFLMAO!!!

[PugetSoundSoldier]

So, anyone who comes to the US, follows the laws to become a legal resident is thereby offered amnesty? Is that your stance?

Because as I read the original legislation - and the commentary on both sides about it - it seems that it only provides residency for those who register, who pay their fines, and file their taxes. You don’t do that, you’re out.

So is that amnesty? As opposed to that actually granted by President Reagan? In your opinion President Reagan must have been a lousy President because he blatantly and fully supported even worse - blanket “you’re here, it’s OK nothing is required” amnesty for millions.

But that’s OK, you want to obfuscate and ridicule and not debate on actual facts. Usually the retreat of those finding themselve bereft of logical support.

[calcowgirl]

"Crossing the border today is like a parking ticket . they are not criminals"

--Juan Hernandez, advisor to presidential candidate John McCain

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

No, no... do keep right on going, by all means. By your own bizarrely illogical standards, then: a President Hillary Clinton, say, could raise taxes by another 70, maybe even 80%... but, just so long as she didn't actually use the words "tax increase," it wouldn't really BE a tax increase, after all. What marvelous schoolyard sophistry!

You know... typically, it's only in the most backwards of the remotest, most isolated jungle tribes that words are magically considered to be genuinely one and the same with concrete reality. Sometimes, "ridicule" is not only richly merited: it's both inevitable and mandatory.

*snort*

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

--Juan Hernandez, advisor to presidential candidate John McCain

Oh, you! He never actually said the word "amnesty" anywhere in there, did he? Well, did he? HUH? DID HE? HUH -- ?!? ;)

[stockpirate]

Problem for McCain is he doesn’t want us awake, because we already are, he wants us to follow him like sheep and be quite and do as we are told.

[Huck]

No, voting for your candidate would be tossing my vote in the trash.

Not at all. There are only two possible votes of any consequence. Sensible people understand that. Voting for your favorite one per center is completely meaningless and pointless. I guess it makes you feel better. That's all it does. If that.

[calcowgirl]

Who needs to use the word "Amnesty" when anyone who knows the definition can tell exactly what the "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" plan includes?

As if McCain having this Hernandez guy as an advisor ain't bad enough. Did you know he was a fan of Pastor's, too? LOL.

Quotes from Juan Hernandez, The New American Pioneers:

"The undocumented in the U.S. are not the problem. Our small thinking is the problem" (page 182).

"Writers Gonzales and Rodriguez point out that any Mexican or Central American person now living in the United States is already home, considering the ancient homeland of the indigenous people called Aztlan was somewhere in the American Southwest, according to ancient accounts" (page 46).

"Another crucial element of real immigration reform would allow undocumented workers already in the country to become legal. ...No matter how small the window of opportunity, there should be -- there must be -- some light at the end of the tunnel for those seeking citizenship" (page 61).

"One major study, headed by Robert A. Pastor of the Center for North American Studies at American University, was called 'Closing the Development Gap: A Proposal for a North American Investment Fund.' ...The investment fund would require contributions from the U.S. of $9 billion annually, another $1 billion from Canada, and Mexico would supply the remaining $7 billion. The goal of all this investment would be to shrink the wealth gap between Mexico and the U.S." (pages 178-179).