Libertarian ping! To be added or removed freepmail me or post a message here.
Posted on 07/04/2008 10:54:38 AM PDT by neverdem
I doubt they try that, but on semi autos especially those in military style, I can see them landing on someone hard. In light of post 14 though he may actually have been in possession of a modified weapon. Also, the quote I posted was from another article and may not be what the government argued.
The absolutists conveniently ignore the unintended consequences of making every kind of weapon readily and cheaply available to the millions and millions of gangstas and druggies as well as themselves, no questions asked, no restrictions or regulations of any kind whatsoever.
I don't want to live in a Mad Max movie myself. Reality forces me to support a thorough background check and the same kind of tax stamp and registration procedure for automatic weapons and destructive devices. I do not support any other gun control laws. I just cannot accept every knuckle dragging gangsta zombie being able to walk into a gun store and carry out armloads of $50 MAC-10's and Uzi's, like everyone else wants to be able to do themselves.
I'm a firm believer in Unintended Consequences, and there is no other human activity that is as totally unregulated as the 2A absolutists want gun ownership to be.
Reality sucks.
The Accidental Felon By Jeff Knox (January 29, 2008) There are several ways for a person to unintentionally commit a felony, but most of them are looked at by prosecutors, judges, and juries as the accidents they are and dealt with accordingly. Such is not always the case however, especially when firearms are involved; for the past 2 years David Olofson has been learning that the hard way. Olofson is a regular guy who happens to be fond of AR15 style sport-utility rifles. He loaned a rifle to a friend. While the friend was shooting it he moved the safety switch to a point beyond the Fire position. The rifle fired a couple of short bursts and jammed. Someone at or near the club called the police to complain about machinegun fire. The police notified the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) and David Olofson was subsequently charged and convicted of illegally transferring a machinegun. Neither Olofson nor his friend was charged with possession of an unregistered machinegun or with illegally manufacturing, modifying, or otherwise making a machinegun. Obviously ATF did not believe they could convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Olofson or his friend had intentionally altered the rifle to fire full-auto so they prosecuted on the easier charge of transferring. Everyone agreed that the gun belonged to Olofson and that he had loaned it to his friend. That meant that the only issue in question in the case was whether the gun was a machinegun. Since ATF is the final arbiter in determining whether a gun is a machinegun, and the law defining machineguns tends to be selectively interpreted by them, the government had a distinct advantage. As a matter of fact, when the ATF Firearms Technical Branch (FTB) examined the rifle they concluded that it was not a machinegun. They did find that if the Safety switch was moved beyond its normal range of motion, the gun would fire once and jam, leaving a loaded round in the chamber. They determined that moving the Safety in such a way interfered with the trigger disconnector causing the hammer to follow the bolt as it returned to battery rather than being stopped by the sear; a fairly common malfunction known as hammer-follow. At the request of the local ATF agent, the FTB tested the gun a second time using a brand of .223 ammunition known for having sensitive primers. Those tests resulted in intermittent, unregulated, automatic fire and jamming due to hammer-follow, but this time the FTB concluded that, under strict interpretation of the law, the gun’s malfunction did make it a machinegun. The cornerstone of this charge is the government’s contention that it doesn’t matter whether a gun fires multiple shots as a result of malfunction or modification because the law defines a machinegun as; “… any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.” While on the witness stand, firearms expert Len Savage asked the Assistant US Attorney prosecuting the case if that would make his grandfather’s old double-gun a machinegun if it malfunctioned and fired both barrels with one pull of the trigger. The AUSA responded by paraphrasing the legal definition of a machinegun with emphasis placed on “any weapon which shoots… more than one shot… by a single function of the trigger.” Anyone experienced with semi-automatic firearms knows that hammer-follow is a relatively common malfunction which usually does not result in a sharp enough blow to the primer to result in ignition. When it is enough to trigger the primer, the resulting fire is very dangerous for the shooter. Semi-auto firearms are not designed to withstand the stresses of full-automatic fire, particularly unregulated automatic fire. A true machinegun has mechanical systems in place to control the gun’s rate of fire, literally pausing momentarily between shots. A gun firing by hammer-follow does not have these controls and will fire as fast as the bolt spring can cycle the action. In the Olofson case, the government entered into evidence a tightly edited video clip of one of their testers firing Olofson’s gun for a relatively long full-auto string. The cyclic rate was estimated to be near 1700 rounds per minute, more than twice that of a properly regulated M16. The shooter clearly understood the danger involved as he was holding the firearm well away from his face and body in obvious fear that the rifle would break apart at any moment. At the government’s insistence, the court refused to allow Olofson’s firearms expert to physically examine the gun; he was only allowed to observe as an ATF employee took the gun through a function check and opened the action to his view. What he saw were standard, unaltered components of the same type and configuration that were included in this particular brand of rifle from the factory over two decades ago; parts that are known by ATF to produce exactly the type of malfunction noted and in response to which ATF had once ordered a safety recall. In another recent case, ATF removed a gun from the machinegun registration rolls because the gun was manufactured as an AR15 and had been intentionally modified to fire in full-auto mode using the hammer-follow method. ATF ruled that such a gun was not a machinegun, but a semi-auto in need of repair. By removing the gun from the NFA rolls ATF devalued the gun from a market value of around $20,000.00 to about $1,500. Olofson’s judge and jury were not allowed to learn about either the ATF ordered recall or the reclassification of a rifle like Olofson’s as not being a machinegun, because ATF and the US Attorney claimed that such information was prohibited from disclosure by tax privacy laws. This contention now appears to be patently false and the judge has egg on his face for not making the government prove their privacy claim. I don’t really know David Olofson and I have no personal knowledge of any of the facts in this case. I have spoken with Olofson, reviewed the case documents and spoken with Len Savage, the firearms expert who was present for most of the trial. From those interviews and documents I can not determine with any certainty the complete facts of this case. What I am certain of is that David Olofson was convicted on flimsy evidence without a proper opportunity to present a reasonable defense. If the government can destroy his life for nothing more than loaning a malfunctioning rifle to a friend, then no gun owner is safe from the threat of government agents. David Olofson is a decorated Army veteran and member of the Active Reserves with over 16 years of service. He has a wife and three kids, including a new daughter born in the midst of this mess. Olofson is a firearms rights activist who has been willing to fight the system and face arrest for exercising his legal rights. He has won those fights and forced the police to obey the law when they were inclined not to. Now he has been convicted of a crime that doesn’t appear to have been a crime at all and is on the verge of losing his Army pension, his right to own firearms, and his very liberty. Olofson is working on an appeal of this travesty and if there is any justice left in our system this conviction will be reversed. That won’t undo the damage that has been done and you can bet that the overzealous government employees who perpetrated this abomination will not be asked to pay restitution or even have negative remarks put in their personnel files. The Firearms Coalition is encouraging concerned citizens to contact their elected representatives in Washington and demand that they take a closer look at this case and launch a full investigation. We are also working with members of Congress to get the definition of a machinegun clarified so this type of harassment won’t be facilitated by the letter of the law in the future. Until that is accomplished, I encourage gunowners to be especially cautious; a little paranoia can be a healthy thing. If you think something like this couldn’t happen to you, consider another recent case where an anonymous tip (read crotchety neighbor, disgruntled ex, or hoplophobic co-worker) called federal authorities and claimed that a young man possessed machineguns. ATF and the local police showed up, went through the man’s collection, and confiscated an “assault weapon” for testing. The fellow knows that the gun was semi-auto when ATF took it, but after learning about David Olofson’s odyssey he is very concerned about what the Firearms Technical Branch’s conclusion will be. Interested persons wishing to delve deeper into the Olofson case can find more information and much of Olofson’s documentation in an extended forum discussion at AR15.com. Olofson is the poster known as Bladerunner2347. To go to the discussion, click here. To browse through the documents without commentary, click here.Here's 88 pages worth of the whole shebang from the people who should know (OP is the person charged in the case) http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=507483&page=1
You’re acting like the Liberals now when they talk about Castle Doctrine and concealed carry laws, that the streets will run red with blood.
Do you really not trust your fellow Americans that much?
Also, the Second Amendment affirmed the God-given right of Americans to be able to bear arms, of any type they pleased, not in connection with militia duty. I think it holds true to today.
If Washington were to come back today, learn about today’s firepower, and comes to visit me, when I don’t own any firearms yet, he’d scold me for not having any, including a few M4A1s for ‘projects’ and parts.
Yes, I really don't trust my fellow Americans that much, at least a sizable portion of them. This is from 50+ years of observation and personal experience. At present there are 8-10 young male neighbors across the street, ranging in age from grade school to nearly 30. After observing their behavior for some time, I wouldn't trust any of them with a single shot .22 rifle. I've also heard plenty of hi-cap pistol mag dumps in the area at night, and a few 30-round mag dumps where someone was trying to mow down some other gangstas. Must be nice to live in a Wonderland where there's no gangstas and brain dead thug zombies running loose.
If Washington were to come back today, learn about today’s firepower, and comes to visit me, when I don’t own any firearms yet, he’d scold me for not having any, including a few M4A1s for ‘projects’ and parts.
If he visited me I would take him on a tour of the Section 8 housing in nearby areas and show him what the reality of present day American life is like. I stress the word REALITY. He would crap his pants in some of the areas I've been in personally, and not feeling safe even while carrying a Brown High Power and a Dirty Harry .44 Magnum and wearing a Second Chance vest.
The Second Amendment recognizes the absolute right of all free persons to keep and bear any and all such artifacts as may be useful as arms for individual and/or collective defense.
Not all persons are free persons, but a person may not be legitimately disarmed without demonstrating that they are, at least temporarily, not free persons.
If the government honored the Second Amendment, those ganstas would refrain from shooting up neighborhoods, either because they wanted to avoid ending up dead, or because they failed to do so.
There are those out there who fail to see what ‘deterrence’ means, no matter what.
Realistically, if the thugs were to be ventilated upon active thuggery, there’d be less thugs.
On the other hand, there are ALOT of idiots out there.
(Think Corzine driving at 100 plus with zero seatbelt and armed to get a mental image of such level of idiocy as I am hinting at.)
This is not the same country our forebears fought to create, not by any means.
I guess that's why there's never been any drive by shootings, house strafings, car-to-car shootouts, or any of the nighttime shooting sprees and murder attempts that I've heard while sitting in my living room. I must have imagined seeing all the bullet holes in doors and walls here and there. The threat of getting shot in return prevents all that from ever happening, I guess .
Lying to the MySpace computer servers is also a federal crime, according to one US Attorney.
That's quite a list, OTOH. I guess Olofson didn't understand that many federal agencies are staffed by a bunch of OCD whackjobs who have got a blank checkbook and a set of federal "laws" that's beginning to rival the federal tax code.
Oddly, some people, like Bill Clinton and William Jefferson, are immune to the voluminous federal legal smorgasbord...
Actually I do believe the 2A is absolute. It is appropriate for its timeThank you Justice Stevens.
You see, the issue is that we are ruled by a crowd of OCD jerkoffs who can prosecute law-abiding taxpayers with a bottomless well of their own money all day, every day, 24/7, 365.
The failure to deal with your gangbangers is part of the method of their control. "We're not going to clean up the mess, but if YOU try it, law-abiding citizen, the "law" will fall upon you like a ton of bricks."
You see, if there's crime and people feel unsafe, the government can keep coming back to the well for more tax dollars to "clean up" crime. Which, of course, never happens.
In my state, law enforcement, including the Department of Corrections, is 20 percent of the annual budget. The number of incarcerated is much higher than many other states.
Yet still we have crime...
It's similar to the education system always crying for more cash, yet the students keep getting less and less and less literate.
These methods are how the rubes are conned out of their tax dollars by the government types and their shills.
For me, after all these years on FR, it's like watching carny barkers at their trade. It don't fool me at all.
bookmark
LE knows where 99 percent of these little gang cockroaches live, where they sleep...They've got their photos, prints, cataloged their tattoos, DNA.. Know their AKAs, MOs, they know their associates, friends, their hangouts, backgrounds everything....And yet they're allowed to run through our streets and commit multiple crimes, control prisons....It's become such a joke, we now have local city leaders, corrupt government types, and attorneys pandering to these violent AHs, cutting them deals etc..
Like our bleeding borders and dying sovereignty...It's utter madness.
Thanks for the ping!
Libertarian ping! To be added or removed freepmail me or post a message here.
Interesting article, link (at #1), and thread. Thanks.
No, the sear replacement is a 10 minute job for an experanced armour.
If the gun was “gummed up” why would he tell the nieghbor not to push the selector level past semi?
I spent 22+ years in the service, 10 years as an Air Force Security Policeman working in the armory with M16s, M4’s SAW and every weapon they had.
Trust me, this was no malfunction.
The feds can find one guy with a malfunctioning firearm, but they can't find 12 million illegal immigrants.
Why is that?
12 million aren’t announcing themselves with automatic fire.
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