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Massachusetts' Obama-like reforms increase health costs, wait times [RomneyCare]
CATO / The Detroit News ^ | 2009-08-27 | Michael F. Cannon

Posted on 08/29/2009 12:03:50 AM PDT by rabscuttle385

If you are curious about how President Barack Obama's health plan would affect your health care, look no farther than Massachusetts. In 2006, the Bay State enacted a slate of reforms that almost perfectly mirror the plan of Obama and congressional Democrats.

Those reforms reveal that the Obama plan would mean higher health insurance premiums for millions, would reduce choice by eliminating both low-cost and comprehensive health plans, would encourage insurers to avoid the sick and would reduce the quality of care.

Massachusetts reduced its uninsured population by two-thirds — yet the cost would be considered staggering, had state officials not done such a good job of hiding it. Finally, Massachusetts shows where "ObamaCare" would ultimately lead: Officials are already laying the groundwork for government rationing.

The most sweeping provision in the Massachusetts reforms — and the legislation before Congress — is an "individual mandate" that makes health insurance compulsory. Massachusetts shows that such a mandate would oust millions from their low-cost health plans and force them to pay higher premiums.

The necessity of specifying what satisfies the mandate gives politicians enormous power to dictate the content of every American's health plan — a power that health care providers inevitably capture and use to increase the required level of insurance.

In the three years since Massachusetts enacted its individual mandate, providers successfully lobbied to require 16 specific types of coverage under the mandate: prescription drugs, preventive care, diabetes self-management, drug-abuse treatment, early intervention for autism, hospice care, hormone replacement therapy, non-in-vitro fertility services, orthotics, prosthetics, telemedicine, testicular cancer, lay midwives, nurses, nurse practitioners and pediatric specialists.

The Massachusetts Legislature is considering more than 70 additional requirements.

Those requirements can increase premiums by 14 percent or more. Officials further increased premiums by imposing new limits on cost-sharing.

"The effect," writes the Boston Globe, "has been to provide more comprehensive insurance than in most other states but also to raise costs." Premiums are growing 21 to 46 percent faster than the national average, in part because Massachusetts' individual mandate has effectively outlawed affordable health plans.

Massachusetts long ago adopted another feature of the Obama plan: price controls that prohibit insurers from varying premiums based on a purchaser's health status. Those price controls further increase premiums for the young and healthy.

They also eliminate comprehensive health plans. Obama adviser David Cutler found that in Harvard University's price-controlled health insurance exchange, "adverse selection" or the attraction of the sickest patients caused premiums for the most comprehensive plan to rise until insurers eventually canceled it. Those price controls also encourage insurers to avoid the sick. And who can blame them, considering that the government is forcing them to sell a $50,000 policy for just $10,000?

One way insurers can avoid the $50,000 patients is to drop benefits those customers find attractive. Shelby Rogers is a 12-year-old girl with spinal muscular atrophy, whose parents chose an Aetna plan through the price-controlled health insurance exchange for federal workers. Last year, Aetna announced it would drop coverage for Shelby's 12-hour-a-day nurse, who, among other things, helps Shelby avoid bedsores by turning her over at night. An Aetna spokesman explained the reason was to avoid offering a benefit that causes the sickest patients to flock to the plan.

Over time, as mandates eliminate low-cost options and price controls eliminate comprehensive options, both the Massachusetts and Obama reforms will march consumers into a narrow range of health plans.

As goes choice, so goes quality. Statistics on waiting times for specialist care in Massachusetts read like a dispatch from Canada. In 2004, Boston already had the longest waits among metropolitan areas. By 2009, waits had generally shortened in other metro areas (average wait: less than three weeks) but lengthened in Boston (average wait: seven weeks), according to the Merritt Hawkins survey.

Voters who believe the Massachusetts law reduced the quality of care outnumber those who believe it helped by nearly 3-to-1 (29 percent to 10 percent).

Massachusetts has reduced the share of its population that lacks coverage from an estimated 8.3 percent in 2006 to an estimated 2.6 percent by June 2008. Former Gov. Mitt Romney, a Republican who signed the Massachusetts reforms into law, boasts that "no other state has made as much progress in covering their uninsured."

Yet that achievement carries an exorbitant price tag: at least $2.1 billion this year, according to the Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation, a figure that doesn't even include the cost of the additional coverage discussed above. Since Massachusetts has covered just 432,000 previously uninsured residents, the cost of covering a previously uninsured family of four — at least $20,000 — is well above the average cost of an employer-sponsored family policy (about $13,000).

Had state officials not done their level best to hide those costs — the individual mandate pushed 60 percent of the cost off-budget, while expanding eligibility for Medicaid pushed another 20 percent onto the federal budget — no one would be hailing Massachusetts as a model.

As it is, Massachusetts has fooled some prominent watchdogs. The Boston Globe editorializes that the cost to the state taxpayer is "about $88 million a year," when the actual cost to state taxpayers is 19 times that amount, and the total cost is 24 times that amount.

The New York Times editorial page's account of the law's cost was only off by a factor of three.

Nevertheless, those costs are appearing in higher taxes and health insurance premiums. State officials have raised taxes on tobacco, hospitals, insurers and employers, as well as eliminated coverage for many legal immigrants just to scrape up their 20 percent share of the cost. They are also showing the nation where ObamaCare would ultimately lead: government-imposed rationing.

To cope with the cost of its reforms, Massachusetts created a legislative commission that has recommended moving the entire market to a single, Canadian-style payment system that would encourage doctors and hospitals to ration care.

The Legislature also plans to leverage its power under the individual mandate to require "evidence-based purchasing strategies," which is another way of saying government bureaucrats may soon be deciding who gets medical care and who does not.

When former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin whipped people into a frenzy over "death panels," she was warning not only against a proposal for end-of-life counseling but plans that would make it easier for Medicare to use its existing power to try to ration care to the elderly and disabled.

Massachusetts shows that Obama's individual mandate would expand federal power by enabling it to ration care to patients under age 65.

Though initially popular, enthusiasm for the Massachusetts reforms may be on the wane. A recent poll found that more Massachusetts voters say the law has made health insurance less affordable (27 percent) than believe it has made coverage more affordable (21 percent). Voters who believe the reforms have been a failure outnumber those who believe the reforms have been a success by 37 percent to 26 percent.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Government; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: bho2009; bho44; dnc4romney; fail; healthcare; liberalfascism; msm4romney; mythromney; obamacare; pimpromney; pimpromneyhere; rino; rinocare; rinos4obama; rinos4socialism; romney; romney4obama; romney4socialism; romneycare; romneytruthfile

1 posted on 08/29/2009 12:03:50 AM PDT by rabscuttle385
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To: reaganaut; BufordP; ejonesie22; AmericanSphinx71; 383rr; jenk; big'ol_freeper; mountainbunny; ...

Romney is a liberal fascist, and his Mass. health care shenanigans have fueled the Democrats’ continued march towards Communism here in the US.


2 posted on 08/29/2009 12:06:24 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 (May God save the American Republic.)
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To: bamahead
"...another way of saying government bureaucrats may soon be deciding who gets medical care and who does not."

Big Government sucks.

3 posted on 08/29/2009 12:08:08 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 (May God save the American Republic.)
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To: Allegra; American Constitutionalist; CanadianMusherinMI; Clemenza; Diogenesis; ejonesie22; ...

Well, I’m shocked, shocked.


4 posted on 08/29/2009 12:11:00 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: rabscuttle385

I live in Massachusetts, and my health insurance seems no different now than it was in 2005. So much for improving life for the average American!


5 posted on 08/29/2009 12:18:58 AM PDT by pleasenoobama (Liberals lied, small government died)
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To: rabscuttle385
Isn't in just lovey that we have governments that mandate..er..dictate, at will, people and their liberties like so much sheep. And, in Mitt's case, it's as if he came out of zombie like obedience cult. Or hung around Harvard for years. Or went and got what Harvard Law School professor, Arthur Miller said was a form of brain damage, ie, a law degree. Throw in blind political ambition and well we have Mitt.
6 posted on 08/29/2009 1:03:53 AM PDT by Leisler
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To: rabscuttle385
Romney is a liberal fascist, and his Mass. health care shenanigans have fueled the Democrats’ continued march towards Communism here in the US.


I don't see it that way. What it means to me is that even if a universal health care system is implemented by a person who believes in free market capitalism, what you end up with is what we have in Massachusetts. If we look at the details of what happened there, we have one more data point on what we want or do not want for America. We now have UK, Canada, and Mass. to warn us what will happen. If we didn't have those data points, people may have fallen for the “impossible dream” of what the left promises. I think we can't have anything like that in America, or every time the Democrats get into power they will evolve it in that direction. I am sorry for Massachusetts, but if they want the system, I am glad for them to be there as a warning to the rest of the country.
So I think the Massachusetts experiment makes it less likely we will have the same for America, not more likely.
7 posted on 08/29/2009 1:07:05 AM PDT by broncobilly
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To: broncobilly

Maine already created a single payer monster. Tennessee has failed. Oregon is failing.

There’s plenty of examples out there. All bad. With Mittless, it’s a variation of the, “It’s not Socialism when I do it” mentality.


8 posted on 08/29/2009 1:16:19 AM PDT by Leisler
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To: rabscuttle385
State officials have raised taxes on tobacco, hospitals, insurers and employers

Plus raised the sales tax from 5% to 6.25% and applied it (for the first time) to alcoholic beverages, which were already subject to a heavy excise tax.

9 posted on 08/29/2009 2:01:52 AM PDT by maryz
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To: broncobilly

Yes, Romney is a liberal (duty cycle ~ 99.8% pure liberal)
fascist (and a proven fascist, at that).


10 posted on 08/29/2009 4:24:50 AM PDT by Diogenesis ("Those who go below the surface do so at their peril" - Oscar Wilde)
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To: rabscuttle385

Carpetbagger shapeshifter Romney:
"My Death Panel is now the first. Now, you Democrats will all love me. Right?
Death to the handicapped and the infirmed and old whom we choose to kill.
Now, you Democrats will all love me for long time, right?"


"Mass. Pushes Rationing to Control Universal Healthcare Costs (RomneyCare)
A 10-member Massachusetts state healthcare advisory board unanimously recommended
that the state begin rationing healthcare to keep the state’s marquee universal health care program afloat financially.

The July 16 recommendations, the Boston Globe explained, would result in a situation where “patients could find it harder to get procedures they want but are of questionable benefit if doctors are operating within a budget.
And they might find it more difficult to get care wherever they want, if primary doctors push to keep patients within their accountable care organization.”
The Globe stressed that the recommendations would “dramatically change how doctors and hospitals are paid, essentially putting providers on a budget as a way to control exploding healthcare costs and improve the quality of care.”
"Budget" is a more politically acceptable word for rationing.
The Globe also noted that “consumer advocates said patients are going to have to be educated about the new system.” Yes, apparently they will have to get used to having their healthcare rationed.


"1,000 cancer patients 'refused treatment'
Charities warned that patients with less common forms of cancer were being discriminated against, while others condemned the system as a “scandal”.
Patients and their doctors can appeal for the NHS to pay for drugs not currently licensed for that type of the disease.
But one in three applications were turned down in the last three years, leaving patients having to pay up £20,000 for the medication themselves."


"Mass. Pushes Rationing to Control Universal Healthcare Costs (RomneyCare)
A 10-member Massachusetts state healthcare advisory board unanimously recommended
that the state begin rationing healthcare to keep the state’s marquee universal health care program afloat financially.

The July 16 recommendations, the Boston Globe explained, would result in a situation where “patients could find it harder to get procedures they want but are of questionable benefit if doctors are operating within a budget.
And they might find it more difficult to get care wherever they want, if primary doctors push to keep patients within their accountable care organization.”
The Globe stressed that the recommendations would “dramatically change how doctors and hospitals are paid, essentially putting providers on a budget as a way to control exploding healthcare costs and improve the quality of care.”
"Budget" is a more politically acceptable word for rationing.
The Globe also noted that “consumer advocates said patients are going to have to be educated about the new system.” Yes, apparently they will have to get used to having their healthcare rationed.


"Massachusetts Universal Healthcare System Breaking Down Already
When Governor Mitt Romney instituted a universal healthcare plan for Massachusetts in 2006 he proclaimed it a conservative idea.
But has it worked? Has it been successful?
For a time, many thought it might but cracks in the system are already being seen.
These cracks are instructive as a lesson on how Obamacare will crash and burn just like Romneycare is now in the process of doing.

One of the early claims that helped push Romneycare through to law was the insistence by its supporters that Emergency Room visits would fall as more and more citizens became covered under healthcare insurance.
Since ER care is far more expensive than a doctor's care, it was thought that more people with insurance would ease the overcrowding of ERs as well as lower the overall costs of healthcare.
However, a flaw in this logic has been seen throughout the state. As more people became insured, more people demanded the care of doctors. These doctors became overloaded with patients and waiting lists for doctors got longer and longer.
As a result, ERs in Massachusetts have not seen a downturn in visits. On the contrary, it seems that ER visits are actually on the upswing in the Bay State. In fact, in 2007 they were higher than the national average by 20 percent...


"Hospital patients 'left in agony'"
"Patients were allegedly left screaming in pain and drinking from flower vases on a nightmare hospital ward.
Between 400 and 1,200 more people died than would have been expected at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust over three years, a damning Healthcare Commission report said.
The watchdog's investigation found inadequately trained staff who were too few in number, junior doctors left alone in charge at night and patients left without food, drink or medication as their operations were repeatedly cancelled.
Patients were left in pain or forced to sit in soiled bedding for hours at a time and were not given their regular medication, the Commission heard.
Receptionists with no medical training were expected to assess patients coming in to A&E, some of whom needed urgent care.
Sir Bruce Keogh, medical director of the NHS, said there had been a "gross and terrible breach" of patients' trust and a "complete failure of leadership".
The Healthcare Commission's chairman Sir Ian Kennedy said the investigation followed concerns about a higher than normal death rate at the Trust, which senior managers could not explain.
He said: "The resulting report is a shocking story. Our report tells a story of appalling standards of care and chaotic systems for looking after patients. These are words I have not previously used in any report.
"There were inadequacies in almost every stage of caring for patients. There was no doubt that patients will have suffered and some of them will have died as a result."
Julie Bailey, 47, was so concerned about the care being given to her 86-year-old mother Bella at Stafford Hospital that she and her relatives slept in a chair at her bedside for eight weeks.
She said: "We saw patients drinking out of..."


"Paramedics told: 'Let accident victims die if they want to' in new row over patient rights (UK)"
Health Service paramedics have been told not to resuscitate terminally-ill patients who register on a controversial new database to say they want to die.
It has been set up by the ambulance service in London for hundreds of people who have only a few months to live so that they may register their 'death wishes' in advance.
It is believed to be the first in the country, but other trusts around the country are expected to follow suit to comply with Government guidelines which state that patients' wishes should be taken into account, even at the point of death.
Patients' groups and doctors have welcomed the scheme, but it has met opposition from pro-life groups who say it violates the sanctity of life.
The system would come into play if a cancer patient, for example, was in serious pain and rang 999 for help to alleviate the suffering.
But if the paramedics arrived and the patient was close to death, he or she would not be resuscitated if such a request was registered on the database.
This would also be the case if a patient on the database was being transferred between hospitals, and had a heart attack.
Dominica Roberts from the Pro-Life Alliance said: 'This is very sad and very dangerous. It's another step along the slippery slope, at the bottom of which is euthanasia as we see in Holland. 'Paramedics should be there to save lives. They should not be there to let patients die. The medical profession should not agree with someone's belief that their life is worthless.'"


"National Health Preview - The Massachusetts debacle, coming soon to your neighborhood."
"Three years ago, the former Massachusetts Governor had the inadvertent good sense to create the "universal" health-care program that the White House and Congress now want to inflict on the entire country.
It is proving to be instructive, as Mr. Romney's foresight previews what President Obama, Max Baucus, Ted Kennedy and Pete Stark are cooking up for everyone else.
In Massachusetts's latest crisis, Governor Deval Patrick and his Democratic colleagues are starting to move down the path that government health plans always follow when spending collides with reality -- i.e., price controls.
As costs continue to rise, the inevitable results are coverage restrictions and waiting periods. It was only a matter of time.

They're trying to manage the huge costs of the subsidized middle-class insurance program that is gradually swallowing the state budget.
The program provides low- or no-cost coverage to about 165,000 residents, or three-fifths of the newly insured, and is budgeted at $880 million for 2010, a 7.3% single-year increase that is likely to be optimistic.
The state's overall costs on health programs have increased by 42% (!) since 2006.

What really whipped along RomneyCare were claims that health care would be less expensive if everyone were covered.
But reducing costs while increasing access are irreconcilable issues.
Mr. Romney should have known better before signing on to this not-so-grand experiment, especially since the state's "free market" reforms that he boasts about have proven to be irrelevant when not fictional.
Only 21,000 people have used the "connector" that was supposed to link individuals to private insurers."


A Very Sick Health Plan; Bay State’s ‘Grand Experiment’ Fails [RomneyCare]
"The Daily News Record, Harrisonburg, Va. - 2009-03-31 "
"For folks increasingly leery of President Obama’s plan to radically overhaul America’s health-care system,
or 17 percent of the nation’s economy, all this could hardly have come at a better time —
that is, fiscal troubles aplenty within Repubican Mitt Romney’s brainchild, Massachusetts’ “grand experiment” in “universal” health care."

"Initiated on Mr. Romney’s gubernatorial watch in 2006, this “experiment” has fallen on hard times, and predictably so.
Even though the Bay State commenced its program with a far smaller percentage of uninsured residents than exists nationwide,
“RomneyCare” is threatening to bankrupt the state. Budgeted for Fiscal Year 2010 at $880 million,
or 7.3 percent more than a year ago, this plan, aimed at providing low- or no-cost health coverage to roughly 165,000 residents,
has caused Massachusetts’ overall expenditures on all health-related programs to jump an astounding 42 percent since 2006.

So what does Mr. Romney’s successor, Democratic Gov. Deval Patrick, propose as a remedy for these skyrocketing costs?
Well, whaddya think? The standard litany of prescriptions (no pun intended) — price controls and spending caps, for a start, and then, again predictably, waiting periods and limitations on coverage.
As in Europe and Canada, so too in Massachusetts. And, we feel certain, everyone from Mr. Romney to Mr. Patrick said, “It would never happen here.”
But then, such things are inevitable when best-laid plans, with all their monstrous costs, run smack-dab into fiscal reality.


"Dem Congresswoman Admits Obama Health Care Plan Will Destroy Private Health Insurance Industry"


"Romney’s mistreatments a sick man, as Gov. Mitt Romney meets a medical marijuana patient"


Thousands of patients with terminal cancer were dealt a blow last night after a decision was made to deny them life prolonging drugs.
The Government's rationing body said two drugs for advanced breast cancer and a rare form of stomach cancer were too expensive for the NHS.
The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence is expected to confirm guidance in the next few weeks that will effectively ban their use.
The move comes despite a pledge by Nice to be more flexible in giving life-extending drugs
to terminally-ill cancer patients after a public outcry last year over 'death sentence' decisions."


"Patients Forced To Wait Hours In Ambulances Parked Outside A&E Departments
"An investigation by The Sunday Telegraph has found that thousands of 999 patients are being left to wait in ambulances in car parks and holding bays, or in hospital corridors – in some cases for more than five hours – before they can even join the queue for urgent treatment.

Experts warn that hospitals are deliberately delaying when they accept patients – or are diverting them to different sites –
in order to meet Government targets to treat people within fours hours of admitting them."


"Cancer survivor confronts the health secretary on 62-day wait (UK Socialized Medicine)
WAITING times for cancer treatment need to be cut, the Scottish Government was told yesterday.
..Cancer experts later said that patients elsewhere in Europe would be "outraged" by having to wait two months to start treatment, with most being seen within two weeks.

The current target of 62 days from urgent referral by a doctor to starting treatment has still not been met in Scotland, despite that originally being the target figure for 2005."


"Hospital patient so shocked at dirty ward she climbed out of bed to clean it herself
After 12 years cleaning care homes and private houses, no one is better qualified than Tereza Tosbell to say whether a room is spotless.
So hospital bosses should take heed of her opinion after she spent four days on a 'filthy' ward.
The mother-of-one said during her stay there was a single, brief visit from a cleaner who left dusty curtains, dirty bedframes and a messy floor.
Disgusted at the conditions, she grabbed the antibacterial fluid dispenser at the end of her bed and some hand towels from the bathroom.
She then set about cleaning her four-bed ward, at one point dropping to her hands and knees to sanitise the floor as she dragged her drip trolley behind her.
'It was shameful to see how sloppy the cleaners were while I was there. I was not prepared to put up with such conditions,'
said Miss Tosbell, a 48-year-old divorcee who was admitted to Colchester General Hospital in Essex with an abscess in her neck.."


"Kidney cancer patients denied life-saving drugs by NHS rationing body NICE (UK Socialized Medicine)
Thousands of kidney cancer patients are likely to lose out on life-prolonging drugs.
The NHS rationing body, NICE, has confirmed a ban on three out of four new treatments.
.. 'Families will be denied time together and doctors will be unable to give patients the best treatment.'."


"Girl, 3, has heart operation cancelled three times because of bed shortage (UK Socialized Medicine)
A three-year-old girl awaiting heart surgery has had her operation cancelled three times this month because of a shortage of beds.

... A hospital spokesman said that procedures would be reviewed, but the case highlights a growing problem of cancelled operations in the NHS.
More than 57,000 surgeries were postponed for non-clinical reasons, including a lack of beds, last year – 10 per cent more than the previous year."

11 posted on 08/29/2009 4:25:03 AM PDT by Diogenesis ("Those who go below the surface do so at their peril" - Oscar Wilde)
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To: broncobilly

You remind me of the Black Knight from Monty Python...


12 posted on 08/29/2009 5:09:15 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: ejonesie22
no comparison

broncobilly (RomneyBOT): "I am sorry for Massachusetts,
but if they want the system, I am glad for them to be there as a warning to the rest of the country.
"

Unbelievable. The victims of Romney are a 'warning'.

The tragic murder of the Maucks -because of Mitt Romney putting a murderer-releasing judge on the bench- are also a 'warning'.

13 posted on 08/29/2009 5:15:14 AM PDT by Diogenesis ("Those who go below the surface do so at their peril" - Oscar Wilde)
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To: Diogenesis
I was thinking more along the lines of:

You are beaten!

No I'm not, tis but a flesh wound.

The evidence is overwhelming and the Romneybots still keep coming as if their arms and legs will just grow back.

It's over in as much as anyone seriously considering him a conservative.

The fact they would throw a whole state under a bus in support of their beloved precious is no real surprise to me.

14 posted on 08/29/2009 5:59:34 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (There's something socialist in the neighborhood, who ya gonna call? MITTBUSTERS!)
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To: rabscuttle385

According to the Mittens, you hate Mormons.

Romney supporters will attempt to use the bigot card to silence critics of Romney.


15 posted on 08/29/2009 6:10:34 AM PDT by DanZanRyu
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To: ejonesie22; broncobilly; Diogenesis
You remind me of the Black Knight from Monty Python...


16 posted on 08/29/2009 8:38:54 AM PDT by rabscuttle385 (May God save the American Republic.)
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To: broncobilly

What it means to me is that even if a universal health care system is implemented by a person who believes in free market capitalism”

No one who believes in free market capitalism would ever implement any “universal health care system”.

Romney is a typical liberal- he believes in less freedom for the little people.


17 posted on 08/29/2009 9:53:13 AM PDT by Favor Center (Targets up! Hold hard and favor center!)
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To: Leisler

amazing how these liberals haven’t a clue how to fix things. Romney really blew his chances for anything further for him in politics.


18 posted on 08/29/2009 9:55:45 AM PDT by fabian
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To: socialismisinsidious


Socialized Medicine aka Universal Health Care daily digest PING LIST

FReepmail me if you want to be added to or removed from this daily digest ping list.




19 posted on 08/29/2009 4:08:49 PM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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To: ejonesie22; Diogenesis; fieldmarshaldj; rabscuttle385

I have to admire the never say die attitude of MYTHology majors.

No amount of facts or evidence will sway them. Now that’s having the courage of your convictions. ;p


20 posted on 08/29/2009 4:40:11 PM PDT by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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To: Impy; ejonesie22; fieldmarshaldj; Diogenesis
No amount of facts or evidence will sway them. Now that’s having the courage of your convictions. ;p

Convictions? No...more like delusions.

21 posted on 08/29/2009 5:05:59 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (May God save the American Republic.)
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To: broncobilly
I don't see it that way. What it means to me is that even if a universal health care system is implemented by a person who believes in free market capitalism, what you end up with is what we have in Massachusetts. If we look at the details of what happened there, we have one more data point on what we want or do not want for America. We now have UK, Canada, and Mass. to warn us what will happen. If we didn't have those data points, people may have fallen for the “impossible dream” of what the left promises. I think we can't have anything like that in America, or every time the Democrats get into power they will evolve it in that direction. I am sorry for Massachusetts, but if they want the system, I am glad for them to be there as a warning to the rest of the country. So I think the Massachusetts experiment makes it less likely we will have the same for America, not more likely.

The problem is, the donks are already using the failure in Massachusetts to argue that the GOP is wrong about health care, and what we really need is "single payer." Because Romney signed it and now champions it, its failure gets hung around the necks of the GOP as a whole.

22 posted on 08/31/2009 4:31:15 PM PDT by ellery (It's a free country.)
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