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A Classic Polystrate Fossil (defies evo-assumption that the "present is key to the past")
ACTS&FACTS ^ | October 2009 | John D. Morris, Ph.D.

Posted on 10/22/2009 7:38:11 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts

Years ago, National Geographic published a remarkable photograph of a polystrate fossil, a fossilized tree that
extended stratigraphically upward through several layers of rock in Tennessee. Its roots were in a coal seam, and the
overlying deposits included bedded shale and thin carbon-rich layers. An advocate of any form of uniformitarianism
would believe that it took many, many years to deposit this sequence of layers (much longer than it takes for a tree
to grow and eventually die and decay), yet one vertical fossil extends through them all. This one fossilized tree offered
a direct contradiction to the evolutionary mantra that "the present is the key to the past"...

(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Tennessee; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: antiscienceevos; baloney; belongsinreligion; bible; catholic; christian; creation; darwindrones; darwiniacs; evangelical; evolution; evoreligionexposed; flood; genesis; geology; intelligentdesign; judaism; noah; noahsflood; notasciencetopic; paleontology; propellerbeanie; protestan; science; scientism; templeofdarwin
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1 posted on 10/22/2009 7:38:11 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

As usual, your “Astrology Today” source conflates an individual event with the milieu.

But thanks for the laugh — always fun to see people pretend to know things when they make fools of themselves.


2 posted on 10/22/2009 7:40:47 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Communism comes to America: 1/20/2009. Keep your powder dry, folks. Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: GodGunsGuts

RE “present is key to the past”

Can I use that ‘key’ to take my money out of the stock market July 2007 and put it all back in July 2009???


3 posted on 10/22/2009 7:41:12 PM PDT by sickoflibs ( "It's not the taxes, the redistribution is the government spending you demand stupid")
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To: GodGunsGuts

Nonsense. We have contemporary evidence of deposits like this laid down in minutes during floods, tsunamis, landslides, etc. The scablands of Eastern Washington are a classic example of repeated massive flooding that laid down very thick deposits every time the ice dam of Lake Missoula was breached.

Its a wonderful world out there, and I’m glad that my belief in God is not challenged by advances in human knowledge and science.


4 posted on 10/22/2009 7:44:07 PM PDT by centurion316
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I can guarantee you need to see ICR come out with some sort of retraction like those moron evolutionist darwin worshippers with that most recent lame ‘missing link’

mark another Religion of Evolutionism moment:

FAIL


5 posted on 10/22/2009 7:45:35 PM PDT by raygunfan
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This one fossilized tree offered a direct contradiction to the evolutionary mantra that "the present is the key to the past"...
It merely takes a great big dump on gradualism and uniformitarianism -- showing that no process went on in the past that doesn't go on in the present, in this case, catastrophe.
6 posted on 10/22/2009 7:46:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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To: centurion316

exactly, rapid deposition, that is how fossils are generally formed....

sort of like a world wide flood, hmmmmmm......


7 posted on 10/22/2009 7:46:49 PM PDT by raygunfan
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To: metmom; DaveLoneRanger; editor-surveyor; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; MrB; GourmetDan; Fichori; ...

Ping!


8 posted on 10/22/2009 7:48:25 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: centurion316
So much for gradualism, which, btw, was a fundamental presupposition of Darwin's evo-atheist creation myth.
9 posted on 10/22/2009 7:50:37 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Looks like a cylinder rock formation. The one in the background seems to stop at the rock layer above it. How do they know it is a tree, it looks like stone to me.(Molten rock forced up through a hole??) The cliff looks like it lost pieces over the ages, and like it broke off had it been risen in a land shift.


10 posted on 10/22/2009 7:58:07 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (DON'T BLAME ME I VOTED FOR "PALIN"!)
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To: Bringbackthedraft

How exactly does “molton rock” grow tree roots?


11 posted on 10/22/2009 8:20:13 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Let's see, per Creation Safari's own website, we have several cases of baloney here. Let's take a look:

An advocate of any form of uniformitarianism would believe ...
What baloney do we have here boys and girls? Why none other than..
Straw Man
Definition:  Caricature, making your opponent’s argument seem ridiculous so that it is easily knocked down.
& Half Truth
Definition:  Part truth and part lie; sugar-coated poison.  Often more effective than the Big Lie.

Why a straw man and half truth. You see, they are deceiving you to believe that uniformitarianism only accepts slow and gradual, they are only giving you half the picture (actually less) because it also accepts that catastrophe happens, such as volcanoes, floods, etc, all that can achieve similar results as the gradual covering concept. Heck, we can see this process even today in the lakes around Mt. St. Helen's where we have trees buried, just like you see here, being preserved. They lie about the full picture of uniformitarianism then use a straw man argument to tie the belief to that lie.. Clever.. What other Baloney can we find here?
How about some:
Glittering Generalities
Definition:  Broad-brush oversimplifications that gloss over exceptions or problems.

Or maybe we'll throw in a little: Reductionism (this is the big one for this article.)
Definition:  Reducing a complex concept to just a subset of its components as if it represented the whole.

GGG's own Creation Safari's website provides a great guide for how they write these articles. I suggest you check it out. Play the game too.. Can you spot the Baloney?

12 posted on 10/22/2009 8:28:15 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: GodGunsGuts

Is there any observable phenomenon that you haven’t yet asserted disproves evolution? Polystrate fossils have been understood for over 100 years.


13 posted on 10/22/2009 8:47:34 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: GodGunsGuts
God does what He wants in the way He wants.

Get over it.

14 posted on 10/22/2009 8:51:12 PM PDT by stboz
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To: mnehring
Wow, I see you are powerless to resist posting the Baloney Detector on virtually every thread, no matter what the topic. Compared to you, the CEH website, which is the creator of the Baloney Detector, uses this symbol quite sparingly. You know, they say that repetitive motion disorders, such as your incessant need to post the same baloney detector over and over, is often the result of longstanding infant brain disorders, or traumatic brain injury. You should really check into that. Who knows, by now they may have a medication or a procedure that will help solve your heretofore irresistible repetitive behaviors.

Wishing your full recovery--GGG

15 posted on 10/22/2009 8:52:16 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Preserving nearly whole trees is not so uncommon. Volcanic eruptions can not only preserve trees in an upright position but have preserved people in sitting positions as anyone who has strolled around Pompeii and Hereculenium knows. A heavy ashfall buries everything in place. Maybe you recall the pictures from the Philippines where whole towns with vegetation, animals, cars, houses, etc where totally buried by the ash. Volcanic ash is very chemically reactive and readily fossilizes all that it buries.

Both beach deposits and volcanic ash deposits are frequently layered. In the case of a volcanic eruption, successive ash falls can create numerous layers in a matter of hours or days. Similarly, thick beds of sediment can be laid down during floods and though there may be tens or even hundreds of layers, the event that creates this may only take a few days or hours.

I am not familiar with the logic of using these somewhat unremarkable fossil orientations to support or refute evolution. I would say that this is focusing on some inconsequential detail while missing the grand sweep of nature's continual flux and the changes that all life forms have undergone to survive. This arguement focuses on the trees while ignoring the forest. http://en.allexperts.com/q/Geology-1359/Stratigraphy-Upright-Fossils.htm

16 posted on 10/22/2009 8:53:44 PM PDT by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: stboz

That is one of the main reasons why I take Genesis so seriously!


17 posted on 10/22/2009 8:54:05 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
Argumentum ad Hominem :

The fallacy of attacking the character or circumstances of an individual who is advancing a statement or an argument instead of trying to disprove the truth of the statement or the soundness of the argument. Often the argument is characterized simply as a personal attack.

1. The personal attack is also often termed an "ad personem argument": the statement or argument at issue is dropped from consideration or is ignored, and the locutor's character or circumstances are used to influence opinion.

2. The fallacy draws its appeal from the technique of "getting personal." The assumption is that what the locutor is saying is entirely or partially dictated by his character or special circumstances and so should be disregarded.

Ad Hominem is not a valid debate tactic. Pictures, Images and Photos

18 posted on 10/22/2009 8:55:38 PM PDT by Ira_Louvin (Go tell them people lost in sin, Theres a higher power ,They need not fear the works of men.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Actually, this is only the second time that I recall (once earlier today) but it is quite fun now that I found your guide for how to write these articles. But now that you've brought it back up, I'm glad you are giving us an example of:
Ad Hominem
Definition:  Against the man, attacking the opponent instead of his argument.
Ridicule
Definition:  Attempting to arouse dislike against a person or idea by name-calling, sarcasm or jokes.

Having your guide for presenting articles is great fun. Have you become what you claim to hate the most?

19 posted on 10/22/2009 8:56:21 PM PDT by mnehring
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To: GodGunsGuts

God has taken down your link.

The Institute for Creation Research

Our website is currently unavailable.

If you would like to contact us, please email web_issue@icr.org.


20 posted on 10/22/2009 10:03:00 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: GodGunsGuts
That is one of the main reasons why I take Genesis so seriously!

I like the part with the talking snake!

Why did God have to create Adam from sand and use Adam's rib to create Eve when he created the whole universe from nothing?

21 posted on 10/22/2009 10:06:52 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: GodGunsGuts

When they dug out the new channel to the gulf in my hometown, they dredged out hundreds of old trees in the upright position for centuries.


22 posted on 10/22/2009 10:11:40 PM PDT by ColdWater
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thanks for the ping!


23 posted on 10/22/2009 10:46:00 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: GodGunsGuts; All
That’s a great picture among a number I’ve found. However... after consulting with an expert on such matters it seems this particular fossil was found in thousands of piecs and mixed with many other broken plant fossils

After years of work by Paleobiodendroligists from the Puttinguon University, it was pieced together using digital reconstruction and a bit of reshaping of the parts.

Some missing parts like the majority of the trunk and roots had to be filled in by sculpters according an artist’s rendering.

Further information can be found at “Fossie, The Paradigm Tosser”.

24 posted on 10/22/2009 10:50:56 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: freedumb2003
So what's the milieu? Layers of sand laid down over millions of years by rising waters somehow?
25 posted on 10/22/2009 11:00:18 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

You are indeed a complete and unmitigated moron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilboa_Fossil_Forest


26 posted on 10/23/2009 3:57:19 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: ColdWater; Ira_Louvin; xcamel

“Why did God have to create Adam from sand and use Adam’s rib to create Eve when he created the whole universe from nothing? “

Where would you get the idea God HAD to do anything?

All of you evos on this thread are totally ignoring the other pre-suppositions with your geologic age-dating ‘science’ - namely that each layer is separated by great time periods. Eons or epics as reported by some evolutionists yet you come on here and incredibly defend your position by saying it was all formed during a great flood or other catastrophe.

Anyone with half a brain knows that all of this is open to interpretation. You wouldn’t be so offensive with your posts if your theory was not like swiss cheese.


27 posted on 10/23/2009 4:18:19 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels

Apparently you have somewhat less than half a brain.


28 posted on 10/23/2009 4:34:09 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: xcamel

Apparently you are so close-minded and sure of evolution that you’ve never even considered the scientific arguments from the creation side.


29 posted on 10/23/2009 4:54:56 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels

You seem to base your arguments entirely on facts not entered into evidence. Care to try again?


30 posted on 10/23/2009 4:57:10 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: BrandtMichaels; xcamel
All of you evos on this thread are totally ignoring the other pre-suppositions with your geologic age-dating ‘science’ - namely that each layer is separated by great time periods. Eons or epics as reported by some evolutionists yet you come on here and incredibly defend your position by saying it was all formed during a great flood or other catastrophe.

"Epic" (Epoch?) Fail.
31 posted on 10/23/2009 4:59:06 AM PDT by whattajoke (Let's keep Conservatism real.)
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To: whattajoke
"scientific arguments from the creation side."

I wonder if that's like "The conservative side of Barry O"

32 posted on 10/23/2009 5:01:24 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: BrandtMichaels
You wouldn’t be so offensive with your posts if your theory was not like swiss cheese.

Mmmm, Swiss Cheese. Tell me, are the distinctive holes in swiss cheese created through prayer or via gaseous emissions from Propionibacter shermani bacteria which has been cultured over the years? Does the bacteria strain remain consistent through prayer or through geneticists understanding resistant cultures and strain integrity? Just wondering.
33 posted on 10/23/2009 5:07:27 AM PDT by whattajoke (Let's keep Conservatism real.)
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To: whattajoke

Whoop dee doo. A slight on my part.

Your evolution stories are truly epic - aren’t they!?


34 posted on 10/23/2009 5:19:55 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: whattajoke

Typical of wanting to credit everything to evolution and science found below.

“Does the bacteria strain remain consistent through prayer or through geneticists understanding resistant cultures and strain integrity?”

I think the consistency of the bacteria strain owes nothing to either - most especially the geneticists understanding.


35 posted on 10/23/2009 5:23:04 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels
Typical of wanting to credit everything to evolution and science... I think the consistency of the bacteria strain owes nothing to either - most especially the geneticists understanding.

Really? So back in the day when those holes "magically" appeared and the monks (or whomever) had no idea how or why, that was good enough for you? Or do you prefer a more educated world which not only understands how those holes occur (and better yet, how to produce artificial rennet), but how to speed its production and increase consistency through genetics and general science?

We both know I'm just being silly here, but my point remains - science progresses and learns and we know how these fossil trees formed - and it wasn't during the Noachian Flood.
36 posted on 10/23/2009 5:36:20 AM PDT by whattajoke (Let's keep Conservatism real.)
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To: GodGunsGuts

You are mistaken. Gradualism no longer holds forth by itself. It was joined some time ago by catastrophism, largely as a result of the investigations into the scablands. Demonstrating that gradualism was not the singular mechanism for change on our planet did not did not destroy the entire body of geologic knowledge.


37 posted on 10/23/2009 5:41:48 AM PDT by centurion316
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To: GodGunsGuts
Polystrate fossils of a single organism (such as a tree trunk) extend through more than one geological stratum. Entire "fossil forests" have been discovered.[1] They are found worldwide and are common[2] in the Eastern United States, Eastern Canada, England, France, Germany, and Australia, especially in areas where coal seams are present. Within Carboniferous coal-bearing strata, it is also very common to find what are called Stigmaria (root stocks) within the same stratum. Stigmaria are completely absent in post-Carboniferous strata, which contain either coal, polystrate trees, or both.

Upright fossils are typically found in layers associated with an actively subsiding coastal plain or rift basin, or with the accumulation of volcanic material around a periodically erupting stratovolcano. Typically, this period of rapid sedimentation was followed by a period of time, decades to thousands of years long, characterized by very slow or no accumulation of sediments. In river deltas and other coastal plain settings, rapid sedimentation is often the end result of a brief period of accelerated subsidence of an area of coastal plain relative to sea level caused by salt tectonics, global sea level rise, growth faulting, continental margin collapse, or some combination of these factors.[4]

In case of the polystrate trees of the Yellowstone petrified forest, which occur buried within the lahars and other volcanic deposits comprising the Lamar River Formation, the periods of rapid sedimentation are regarded by them to be the result of explosive volcanism. This type of volcanism generates and deposits large quantities of loose volcanic material as a blanket over the slope of a volcano as happened during the 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo. Both during and for years after a period of volcanism occurs, lahars and normal stream activity wash this loose volcanic material downslope. These processes result in the rapid burial of large areas of the surrounding countryside beneath several meters of sediment as directly observed during the 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo.[8] As is the case of modern lahar deposits, the sedimentary layers containing polystrate trees of the Yellowstone petrified forest and the individual forests, which these polystrate trees comprise, are discontinuous and very limited in their areal extent. Individual layers containing polystrate trees and individual buried forests, which these polystrate trees compose, occupy only a very, very small fraction of the total area of Yellowstone National Park.[9]

Photobucket
38 posted on 10/23/2009 5:59:12 AM PDT by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Reqiescat in Pace)
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To: GodGunsGuts
This guys is worse than Lyin' Brian Thomas MS*...

SO, first, he starts by laying out a bogus scenario in which a vertical fossilized tree supposedly creates a problem for evolution.......THEN, he gives a rational explanation for how it could occur naturally......THEN he finishes it up with the typical false conclusion:

Our understanding of possible events during the great Flood of Noah's day was substantially expanded, including that rapid deposition of sediments and burial of fossils could be expected during such a deluge. The more evidence that science uncovers, the more it supports the biblical account of earth's history.

No..."Dr"...as science has uncovered evidence, it has NEVER supported the biblical account of Earth's history.

39 posted on 10/23/2009 6:04:59 AM PDT by ElectricStrawberry (Didja know that Man walked with vegetarian T. rex within the last 4,351 years?)
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To: BrandtMichaels
“Why did God have to create Adam from sand and use Adam’s rib to create Eve when he created the whole universe from nothing? “

Where would you get the idea God HAD to do anything?

OK. Why did God have to create Adam from sand and use Adam’s rib to create Eve when he created the whole universe from nothing? “

40 posted on 10/23/2009 6:05:45 AM PDT by ColdWater
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To: whattajoke

I prefer an educated populace that is willing to question scientific statements of fact that have little or no basis in factual evidence.

Some overly-proud ‘scientists’ of our day act like discovering a new process is tantamount to being the inventor / designer of same.

You may have an opinion or theory to how something was formed from the past, but without observation your conclusions are still at best a guess.


41 posted on 10/23/2009 6:14:49 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: ColdWater

You expect me to answer for God? If He said that is how He did it why do you feel the need to question it? Maybe if you read the book of Job you can get a proper perspective on these matters. As well as learning to reject the most popular mis-conceptions about God that mankind has always made throughout history.


42 posted on 10/23/2009 6:18:57 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels
You expect me to answer for God?

No. But there must have been some lesson that God wanted to give to us by doing it the way he did. If it was that important, why don't you know the lesson he wanted to transfer to us? Or is the book of Genesis just not really important?

43 posted on 10/23/2009 6:21:12 AM PDT by ColdWater
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To: Natural Law

“Polystrate fossils have been understood for over 100 years.”

By scientists, yes. However, only recently have creation rationalizing pied-piper frauds begun to willfully misinterpret them to secure their own standing as a false prophets among those of weak faith.


44 posted on 10/23/2009 6:24:38 AM PDT by Buck W. (The President of the United States IS named Schickelgruber...)
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To: BrandtMichaels; whattajoke

Were you standing there at the moment of creation?


45 posted on 10/23/2009 6:26:36 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: BrandtMichaels
You expect me to answer for God?

God could have just poofed Adam and Eve out of nothing. He must have had a reason for creating Adam from sand and Eve from Adam's rib. When will we know what he was trying to teach us with this symbolism and why are dismissing this important lesson that God is trying to give us?

46 posted on 10/23/2009 6:29:05 AM PDT by ColdWater
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To: ColdWater

OK, I’ll bite (probably only to regret it later).

What lesson(s) did you learn from this small portion of Genesis?

You evos have you fun and keep trashing these posts with your nonsense if you want. I have better things to do.


47 posted on 10/23/2009 6:31:33 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: mnehring

Leading mankind to religion by deceit, omission, misstatement, exaggeration, and fantasy. What a bizarre view of God these people have.


48 posted on 10/23/2009 6:36:20 AM PDT by tlb
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To: ColdWater

“Why did God create Adam from sand and use Adam’s rib to create Eve when he created the whole universe from nothing? “

Because the chimpanzees were too busy thrashing Samsonite suitcases to be bothered with being participants in some evolutionary scheme.

Why don’t you ask God that question?

A partial answer to the question might be that since man is composed of matter and spirit, it was fitting that his body was formed from pre-existing matter. That Eve was generated from Adam’s rib, aka X-chromosome, was something He told us about, but it took us 6,000 years to understand what was being said.


49 posted on 10/23/2009 6:40:22 AM PDT by blackpacific
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To: tlb

Ya think?
and sadly, read this:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2368427/posts?page=233#233


50 posted on 10/23/2009 6:41:11 AM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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