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The Demise of Another Evolutionary Link: Archaeopteryx Falls From Its Perch
Evolution News & Views ^ | October 26, 2009 | Casey Luskin

Posted on 10/27/2009 8:11:33 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts

The Demise of Another Evolutionary Link: Archaeopteryx Falls From Its Perch

A few days ago we saw Ida fall from her overhyped status as an ancestor of humans. Now some scientists are claiming that Archaeopteryx should lose its status as an ancestor of modern birds. Calling Archaeopteryx an “icon of evolution,” the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) borrows a term from Jonathan Wells while reporting that “[t]he feathered creature called archaeopteryx, easily the world's most famous fossil remains, had been considered the first bird since Charles Darwin's day. When researchers put its celebrity bones under the microscope recently, though, they discovered that this icon of evolution might not have been a bird at all.”

According to the new research, inferences about growth rates made from studies of Archaeopteryx’s ancient fossilized bones show it developed much more slowly than modern birds. While the WSJ is reporting these doubts about Archaeopteryx’s ancestral status as if they were something new, those who follow the intelligent design movement know that such skepticism has been around for quite some time. In his 2000 book Icons of Evolution, Jonathan Wells discussed differences between Archaeopteryx and modern birds and the implications for Archaeopteryx's place as an alleged link between dinosaurs and birds:

But there are too many structural differences between Archaeopteryx and modern birds for the latter to be descendants of the former. In 1985, University of Kansas paleontologist Larry Martin wrote: “Archaopteryx is not ancestral of any group of modern birds.” Instead it is “the earliest known member of a totally extinct group of birds." And in 1996 paleontologist Mark Norell, of the American Museum of Natural History in New York, called Archaeopteryx “a very important fossil,” but added that most paleontologists now believe it is not a direct ancestor of modern birds.

(Jonathan Wells, Icons of Evolution, p. 116 (Regnery, 2000).)Archaeopteryx isn’t the only evolutionary icon losing its claim as the ancestor of birds. In recent months we’ve seen paleontologists increasingly arguing that the entire clade of dinosaurs should no longer be considered ancestral to birds. As the WSJ article states:

There are lingering doubts that birds today are descendants of dinosaurs. Researchers at Oregon State University recently argued that the distinctive anatomy that gives birds the lung capacity needed for flight means it is unlikely that birds descended from dinosaurs like archaeopteryx and its kin. Their findings were published in June in the Journal of Morphology.
As paleontologist John Ruben of Oregon State was quoted saying when his article was published:
But old theories die hard, Ruben said, especially when it comes to some of the most distinctive and romanticized animal species in world history.

"Frankly, there's a lot of museum politics involved in this, a lot of careers committed to a particular point of view even if new scientific evidence raises questions," Ruben said. In some museum displays, he said, the birds-descended-from-dinosaurs evolutionary theory has been portrayed as a largely accepted fact, with an asterisk pointing out in small type that "some scientists disagree."

"Our work at OSU used to be pretty much the only asterisk they were talking about," Ruben said. "But now there are more asterisks all the time. That's part of the process of science."

("Discovery Raises New Doubts About Dinosaur-bird Links," ScienceDaily, June 9, 2009.)While "museum politics" seem to dominate now more than ever when it comes to evolution, it's nice to at least see some of those asterisks getting a little attention in a major media outlet like Wall Street Journal.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: antiscienceevos; belongsinreligion; catastrophism; catholic; christian; creation; darwindrones; evangelical; evolution; evoreligionexposed; godsgravesglyphs; intelligentdesign; judaism; notasciencetopic; paleontology; propellerbeanie; protestant; science; templeofdarwin
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To: allmendream

Oh no, the DNA itself changes alright, but only the Designer can change it. May your double helix be touched by His Noodly Appendage.


101 posted on 10/27/2009 12:50:51 PM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: xcamel

“The “quote” had nothing to do with your argument. Therefore, strawman. You lose.”

Yeah right. I didn’t lose a thing.

Ad hominem (look it up) attacks on Christians is your motive, and it’s quite apparent.

Immature, bigoted posters like yourself have a tendency to flame out and get banned.

Bonus fortuna.


102 posted on 10/27/2009 12:55:20 PM PDT by scottdeus12 (Jesus is real, whether you believe in Him or not.)
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To: G Larry
"Creationists don’t pretend to know exactly how God did it."

Then why are they so darned quick to say how He DIDN'T do it?

103 posted on 10/27/2009 12:55:49 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Natural Law
Then why are they so darned quick to say how He DIDN'T do it?

Because it is known that He could not have involved natural causes during the procedure. Nature is very dirty.

104 posted on 10/27/2009 12:58:42 PM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: GodGunsGuts

Interesting. Yet every show these days (about my whole lifetime) contiunues to tell us how exciting it is to see the birds outside our windows and know they really are dinosaurs. (They don’t seem to distinguish between birds and dinosaurs at all, which always seems a bit disingenuous to me.)


105 posted on 10/27/2009 1:08:43 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Natural Law

Good enough, thanks.


106 posted on 10/27/2009 1:27:58 PM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: scottdeus12

Were you damaged as a child or something?

I have nothing against Christians. I have a great deal against ignorant Luddites who insist on using junk science to prop up a fairytale.


107 posted on 10/27/2009 1:30:51 PM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: allmendream

Wake UP and check who you’re agruing with!

Cite the post where I used the term “rapidly”.

YOU specifically criticized me for citing the genetic process.
It’s not my fault you are incapable of staying on track.

Aside from that, the minor adaptations you cite, occur WITHIN a species, they do NOT add up to a NEW species!


108 posted on 10/27/2009 1:49:15 PM PDT by G Larry (DNC is comprised of REGRESSIVES!)
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To: xcamel

“Were you damaged as a child or something?”

You continue to bolster my argument that ad hominem attacks are your foundation.

Care to tell the owner of this website about the ‘Fairy Tale’ he believes in?


109 posted on 10/27/2009 1:50:48 PM PDT by scottdeus12 (Jesus is real, whether you believe in Him or not.)
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To: G Larry
So you don't think that all terrestrial species that live upon this Earth descended from those that were taken upon the Ark? Do you suppose an example of EVERY species was taken on the Ark, or just primordial “kinds”? How did we get so many species from these “kinds” if there is no mechanism whereby a new species could form?

How do these “minor” adaptations arise? Are they not changes in DNA? Is not a change in the DNA within a population evolution by definition?

110 posted on 10/27/2009 1:54:11 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: scottdeus12

At least you have the “run to mommy” act down pat.

Can’t think for yourself?


111 posted on 10/27/2009 3:03:34 PM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: allmendream; MGBGUN

And then we have ‘allmendream’ the low level lab technician/bottle washer that posts nothing but strawmen stuffed with faeces.

No wonder he’s such a malcontent!


112 posted on 10/27/2009 3:13:24 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor
I am the section head for a major pharmaceutical company, as such I design experiments, carry them out, and analyze the data.

Your grasp on reality is slipping e-s. No wonder you are a Geocentrist.

113 posted on 10/27/2009 3:32:27 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: Natural Law; G Larry
"Then why are they so darned quick to say how He DIDN'T do it?"

If you had any familiarity with God's word, you would know that he was good enough to tell us in numerous places that specifically no evolution happened.

He said plainly that all his creatures reproduced only after their own kind.

114 posted on 10/27/2009 3:33:10 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: allmendream

Certainly not intelligent enough to even understand what geocentricity even is, and constantly make a fool of yourself here by inventing nonsense that it clearly isn’t.

No wonder they keep you in the ‘head!’ (are you a P.L.O.?)


115 posted on 10/27/2009 3:39:31 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: allmendream

Certainly not intelligent enough to even understand what geocentricity even is, and constantly make a fool of yourself here by inventing nonsense that it clearly isn’t.

No wonder they keep you in the ‘head!’ (are you a P.L.O.?)


116 posted on 10/27/2009 3:49:33 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor
I know what geocentricity is, and I know that you say you are one. I do not need to know any more on the subject than that to know you are delusional.

It is obvious though that you have nothing but asinine and incorrect personal attacks to say about the post you responded to.

In that post I point out that it is Creationists who insist that evolution must take place at thousands of times the rate ever proposed by evolutionary biology such that every terrestrial species could arise from those primordial “kinds” that could fit within the known dimensions of the Ark a few thousand years ago. And yet somehow this explosion of variation stops at the “kind” level by some unexplained mechanism. While claiming all this Creationist all the while INSIST that variation arising within species, or species arising from other species is somehow simultaneously impossible.

That is the same sort of ludicrous position as insisting in a geocentric model.

117 posted on 10/27/2009 4:12:11 PM PDT by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: allmendream

You obviously know absolutely nothing about anything.

You prove that here daily.


118 posted on 10/27/2009 4:24:00 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: editor-surveyor
"If you had any familiarity with God's word, you would know that he was good enough to tell us in numerous places that specifically no evolution happened.

He said plainly that all his creatures reproduced only after their own kind.

I have plenty of familiarity with God's words in several languages. Perhaps you could share with us the actual etymology of the English phrase "their kinds". Maybe it isn't as plain as you claim.

The amazing thing that genetics study have been able to reveal is that in fact the new species which appear do in fact contain the DNA from both parents. The new species are very much “according to their kinds” and yet God has provided the mechanism for variation to occur on earth.

119 posted on 10/27/2009 4:29:37 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: chuckles
I was alive when Apollo 13 landed.

You can't even watch movies correctly! Apollo 11 was the first to land on the moon. Apollo 13 NEVER landed because of the explosion in the service module. Look at the Tom Hanks movie again. It is based on the true story. Were you even born in the 70s?

120 posted on 10/27/2009 4:46:28 PM PDT by Wacka
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