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Now, is it time to take the birth certificateissue seriously?

Posted on 03/22/2010 5:05:06 AM PDT by paythefiddler

this would be a direct way to kill the bill


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: afterbirthers; birfer; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; chat; naturalborn; naturalborncitizen; obamaisabirther; orly; orlytaitz; taitz; vanity
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To: El Gato

Is it wrong?


61 posted on 03/22/2010 1:13:25 PM PDT by G Larry (DNC is comprised of REGRESSIVES!)
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To: msg-84
Bullshit. My wife gave birth to my son while stationed with me in Europe. www.uscis.gov/naturalization Just like John McCain, who was born in Panama, my son did not have to go through the naturalization process - he is a citizen by birth.

So then just like McCain, if he decides to run for the Presidency he will have to petition the Congress for an SR511, right???

62 posted on 03/22/2010 1:24:00 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Frantzie

That would be incorrect.


63 posted on 03/22/2010 1:57:28 PM PDT by MrRobertPlant2009
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To: MrRobertPlant2009

Go croon “Stairwell to Heaven.”


64 posted on 03/22/2010 2:02:23 PM PDT by Frantzie (TV - sending Americans towards Islamic serfdom - Cancel TV service NOW)
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To: Frantzie
No, I'm simply someone who doesn't reimagine the law in my head every time I have a snit.
65 posted on 03/22/2010 2:09:55 PM PDT by tired_old_conservative
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To: Uncle Chip
So then just like McCain, if he decides to run for the Presidency he will have to petition the Congress for an SR511, right???

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-sr511/text

No, there is nothing in the Constitution which requires a non-binding Senate Resolution as a qualification for the office of President. And if you read the text of that non-binding Senate resolution, it does not bode well for the birther argument. I'm sure it's author, an avowed socialist from VT, would have written one for Obama if asked.


66 posted on 03/22/2010 2:24:18 PM PDT by msg-84 (Semper Fidelis)
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To: Condor51

been at least lurking since 2004
ain’t nothing kooky about our constitution


67 posted on 03/22/2010 2:39:13 PM PDT by paythefiddler (redefeat communism)
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To: Sloth

yeah,
your right
requiring him to show his birth certificate is what
caused obama care


68 posted on 03/22/2010 2:41:57 PM PDT by paythefiddler (redefeat communism)
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To: msg-84
No, there is nothing in the Constitution which requires a non-binding Senate Resolution as a qualification for the office of President.

So then why did McCain request it??? Is it possible that he wasn't sure that his birth outside the U.S., even though to two U.S. citizens, qualified him as a "natural born citizen"???

69 posted on 03/22/2010 3:02:26 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: G Larry
Is it wrong?

Remains to be seen. But if no one tries, they certainly it won't happen.

70 posted on 03/22/2010 3:08:07 PM PDT by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: msg-84
And if you read the text of that non-binding Senate resolution, it does not bode well for the birther argument.

I don't about so-called 'birthers,' but the resolution utilizes criteria (two citizen parents) that Obama can't meet.

71 posted on 03/22/2010 3:19:34 PM PDT by edge919
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To: msg-84
And if you read the text of that non-binding Senate resolution, it does not bode well for the birther argument. I'm sure it's author, an avowed socialist from VT,

It's author, or sponser at least, was Claire McCaskill, from Missouri. The co-sponsers were Clinton(NY), Leahey (VT), Coburn (OK), Webb(VA) and Obama(IL).

It read in part:

Whereas there is no evidence of the intention of the Framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to Americans serving in the military nor to prevent those children from serving as their country's President;
...
Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone
...
That John Sidney McCain, III, is a `natural born Citizen' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States

That fits right in with Vattel's "Law of Nations" definition.

The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.
...
children born out of the country, in the armies of the state, or in the house of its minister at a foreign court, are reputed born in the country; for a citizen who is absent with his family, on the service of the state, but still dependent on it, and subject to its jurisdiction, cannot be considered as having quitted its territory.

So, the other FReepers son fits in exactly the same category as McCain, "born in the armies of the state" and "of parents who are citizens".

Now Obama, OTOH, was not born of parents who are citizens, and if born out of the country, it sure as heck was not in the "armies of the state". So regardless of where born, Obama fails, and also regardless of where born, given that it was while their parent(s) was serving in the military, McCain and the other FReeper's son pass on both counts.

Not that I care much for McCain, I certainly did not vote for him in the primary, and was not going to vote for him in the general election, until he picked Sarah Palin. (and until the 'Rats picked Obama, who I had to vote against)

However that "reputed born in the country" does not extend to those made citizens at birth through statute law. Thus even if both parents are citizens, a child born outside the country is not, in general, "natural born", but rather is considered "naturalized". This is because Congress only has power over naturalization, and that analysis has been confirmed by the Supreme Court.

72 posted on 03/22/2010 3:30:49 PM PDT by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: msg-84
Just like John McCain, who was born in Panama, my son did not have to go through the naturalization process - he is a citizen by birth.

Yes he is, but that alone doe not make him a natural born citizen.

However, since he was born while you were stationed outside the country in the military at the time, he is "reputed born in the country" and is thus a Natural Born Citizen, at least according to Vattel's law of nations.

(Assuming your wife was a citizen as well. Doesn't matter how either of you became a citizen, just that you were. Natural born, 14th amendment, which includes birth or naturalization in the country, or naturalization at birth outside of it).

Going through the naturalization process is not required for "citizen at birth", and under the statutes such are not considered "naturalized". But, and it's a big "but", under the Constitution, or more properly for Constitutional purposes, they must be so considered, since Congress has no other power to make persons citizens than through naturalization. There are other cases where Congress naturalizes people by qualification or group, rather than individually. Such as when they made Puerto Ricans, Hawaians, Guamians and Alaskans, citizens sometime after the US acquired each of those places. Or Texans for that matter, when that fomerly independent Republic became a US state. (Of course many of them were already citizens, having moved to Texas not so very long before statehood, but there were plenty of children, and some adults, who had been born in what became Texas. They would not have been eligible to the office of President, because they were not natural born citizens.

73 posted on 03/22/2010 3:46:22 PM PDT by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: msg-84
That's Article II Section 1, dumbass.

I'll thank you to keep a civil tongue in your head, when addressing me.

I may be an ass at times, but I'm not a DUMB ass. I'm kinda senstitive about that.

Captain, USAFR(ret)
BSEE, MSEE

74 posted on 03/22/2010 3:59:49 PM PDT by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: truthfree
“If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law”

Also from the Constitution, right before the passage above:

"Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States".

If he's not President, then that was not satisfied for anything passed since Jan 20, 2009.

No presentment, no law. (The second "shall" makes it mandatory. Now, they could present the bill again, to Biden, if he was acting as President before a President could be qualified, and sadly he likely would sign it.

75 posted on 03/22/2010 4:09:40 PM PDT by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: paythefiddler; cripplecreek; stockpirate; pissant; traditional1; real_patriotic_american; ...

LucyT is away... so “Birher” ping!

STE=Q


76 posted on 03/22/2010 4:28:20 PM PDT by STE=Q ("It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government" ... Thomas Paine)
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To: Man50D
Just agree with the CommiecRATs that the released COLB forgery, is his true bc, and stop questioning it.

It shows Dad to be Barack Hussein Obama, therefor Junior is NOT a Natural Born Citizen and is the Resident, not the President.

77 posted on 03/22/2010 4:55:54 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Iran should have ceased to exist Nov 5, 1979, but we had no president then either.)
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To: msg-84
just a few facts. In 1961 a minor child (his mother was still considered a minor in 1961)could NOT convey citizenship outside of U.S. soil. If obama was born in Hawaii(big if!) with partial aligience at birth then he is a Native born naturlized citizen. Natural Born citizenship is required to be President.(both parents U.S. citizens).
78 posted on 03/22/2010 4:56:33 PM PDT by omegadawn
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To: paythefiddler

We need Barry’s original long form birth certificate, proof that he registered for Selective Service and his college records from Occidental.


79 posted on 03/22/2010 4:57:21 PM PDT by real_patriotic_american
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To: Frantzie

I think the taxes start this year.


80 posted on 03/22/2010 4:58:32 PM PDT by Josephat
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