Skip to comments.Japan Developed Atom Bomb; Russians Grabbed Scientists
Posted on 04/05/2011 7:20:55 PM PDT by SteveH
Actual Test Was Success
Japan developed and successfully tested an atomic bomb three days prior to the end of the war.
She destroyed unfinished atomic bombs, secret papers and her atomic bomb plans only hours before the advance units of the Russian Army moved into Konan, Korea, site of the project.
Japanese scientists who developed the bomb are now in Moscow, prisoners of the Russians. They were tortured by their captors seeking atomic "know-how."
The Konan area is under rigid Russian control. They permit no American to visit the area. Once, even after the war, an American B-29 Superfortress en route to Konan was shot down by four Russian Yak fighters from nearby Hammung Airfield.
I learned this information from a Japanese officer, who said he was in charge of counter intelligence at the Konan project before the fall of Japan. He gave names, dates, facts and figures on the Japanese atomic project, which I submitted to United States Army Intelligence in Seoul. The War Department is withholding much of the information. To protect the man that told me this story, and at the request of the Army, he is here given a pseudonym, Capt. Tsetusuo Wakabayashi.
The story may throw light on Stalin's recent statement that America will not long have a monopoly on atomic weapons.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformation.org ...
IIRC, the Germans sent all their research before being overrun.
Don’t believe this nonsense.
I thought Russia was only able to go nuclear with stolen information from our program at Los Alamos - the spy ring is infamous. Also, why then was Japan so stunned by Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and in disbelief of the threat prior, ignoring our warning?
You may want to read this before making a judgement call...
The Japanese had access to the exact same science as everyone else on the planet. They were front-runners in the Atomic bomb race, as well.
It’s all a question of timing. If Hitler had delayed the invasion of Poland by two years....science, technology development, industrial growth....would have tipped to Japan and Germany by the early 1940s.
If the Japanese had beaten us to the atomic bomb, we would have had to surrender. Is there no wonder that Obama and the communist loving left want to disarm us of our nuclear weapons? They want us to surrender to the communist.
We - as a fair, Christian centered, capitalistic democracy - are the only people on the planet who would not have conquered the world with a nuclear monopoly.
Think how much better the world would be, if we had.
I think it would explain why the Japanese were so well dug in at Iwo Jima...
Intrigued by the website’s URL, “reformation.org,” I checked out the main page. The most prominent article was one crowing about how the Franco-Prussian war led to the “glorious liberation” of Rome.
The Franco-Prussian war and the “liberation of Rome” were bad news for the Catholic Church. But also very bad news for Christianity, in general. This was the war which first unleashed the horrors of Socialism on the world. The first communist state (the Commune of Paris) was a far cry from the bloodthirsty monsters who followed, like Hitler and Stalin. But Hitler and Stalin were “fixing” the failed experiment by their horrors. The radicals of Paris and Rome looked to the same answers that Hitler and Stalin did, only not having yet been turned quite as cyncial.
But from them sprung the anarchists, then the Communists, then the National Socialists, then the Maoists. And with them 200 million dead, the largest number Christian.
Interesting. I’d heard of the sabotage of the Norwegian heavy water, and had vague knowledge of the German atomic program. This is the first I’ve heard of a Japanese one though.
I’d also heard, and I don’t think there’s as much emphasis on this as there should be when moralizing follows mention of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that our atomic bombs were being rushed forward to use on the Germans, but they surrendered before the bombs were ready. So... Japan.
... in fact, I dare say, the Protestant Religious Right in America would nod their heads in agreement with “Rerum Novarum’s” economic assertions. Rerun Novarum is the papal encyclical issued as Europe was cratering to the Socialist mobs. (The name means, “Of New Things,” referring to modernism; it’s subtitle was “The Rights and Duties of Capital and Labor.”)
Possibly. But 1940 is when Penicillin was purified in the US. Which renders the soldiers of the US immune to most infections that stop all other armies dead in their tracks. And until Penicillin, illness is THE destroyer of all armies.
So, here we are. :)
Actually, not that close:
The remains of the German effort can be viewed in Haigerloch:
I don’t know that Japan having the bomb before us would be enough for Americans to surrender. You have to keep in mind the differences between America then, and America now, unfortunately. Plus, our own atomic program would have been right behind theirs, even if that were the case - and we had so much more territory unreachable to them than the reverse.
We could have avoided much of the trouble of the Cold War, true, if not for that spy ring at Los Alamos. I don’t think the scientists Russia captured were as well-supplied as the ones we did, even if they approached the same caliber.
The Japanese army was able to create a VERY small amount of nuclear material using thermal diffusion. The Japanese navy attempt never got beyond the drawing board.
Had the Germans built Carriers and long range bombers, and the Japanese had Panzer divisions with tanks (even one or two) and then both would have went after Russia instead of the UK and the US initially (after the fall of France, of course) WWII would have turned out differently.
If there is any credence to these stories (I saw the History Channel documentary about this a while back) then it takes away the “Japan is a victim” mantra.
Yeah. I think this article would have been better posted last Friday.
And yet the Rerum Novarum also states that “Among the many and grave duties of rulers who would do their best for the people, the first and chief is to act with strict justice - with that justice which is called distributive - toward each and every class alike.”
...but perhaps discussion of Papal Encyclicals in this thread is a bit OT though... :-)
The sole research building was fire bombed on April 13, 1945 by B-29s over Tokyo. Totally destroyed their little enrichment project. Basically, it was nothing at all. No chance of creating a bomb. They didn’t have the capabiities like they do now.
Interesting history story but very hard to believe at this point. USSR stole the bomb plans from the USA.
Well, one can easily argue that the Nazis lost because of their hatred of the Jews. From Einstein to Oppenheimer. The Manhattan Project was distinctly, almost uniquely, a Jewish endeavor.
Thanks. That might be why I hadn’t heard of it before.
You could make that argument, but they were all trained in German institutions, and Hitler supposedly didn’t give attention to atomic weapons development because he considered it inhumane, even with all the other things he did.
I has been proven, time after time, that a new invention is not something that one human figures out. People all over the globe conceive of these new inventions at the same time, and it is only a very, very few who pursue that dream and make it a reality.
It is my silly *ss opinion that enlargement of knowledge/new inventions/new ideas are due to gamma ray radiation from space.
Of course the gamma rays could be having just the opposite effect, for all I know.
“The Invasion of Okinawa is what made the atomic bombing of Japan inevitable.”
Yes, that’s the argument I’m familiar with the longest, that it in reality saved many more lives than if an invasion of the main islands of Japan had to be made.
See.... somebody always has to go and spoil the party with actual facts.
Y’all are no fun. :-)
It was the Okinawa that made American war-planners take notice. The fanaticism of Imperial Japanese troops was well-known. And taking Saipan was brutal. But Okinawa was something that blew their minds.
Seems they all wanted the same thing.
Just to be left alone. To have an end to war.
Haigerloch is a very picturesque little town, in the valleys just east of the Black Forest. A part of it is high on a hill, the rest down in the valley on the river.
At the base of the hill, there’s an old wine cellar that was fashioned out of a cave some time in the Middle Ages.
Late in the European war, when the German nuclear scientists had to vacate Berlin, they sought refuge in the western part of the country; part of their thinking was that they’d rather be captured by the Americans, English, and French, than the Russians.
So that cave in Haigerloch was the locus of their final reactor experiments. When the Alsos project scientists came through, they found the experimenters’ stash of Uranium buried not far away. The scientists too. (Not buried, mind you!)
The reactor had not yet reached criticality, by the way, and they were quite far from making a bomb.
I looked high and low for the roll of film I took there. It also held some shots of the headwaters of the Danube (actually, the Breg river). I think it was the only roll lost out of the 50 or so my ladyfriend and I took in Germany that year.
We can thank the heroes of Tel mark for risking their lives to stop the Germans from transporting the heavy water. I always wondered how factual that movie was.
Definitely some interesting stuff to read for later !
*chuckle* Distributive justice isn’t state-distributed income. It means that the justice itself is distributive, rather than reserved for the powerful. Rerum Novarum is unequivocable that one’s property is his own, and the state would be condemned were it to seize that property, even for the welfare of its citizens. Further, the owner of that property is entitled to the further wealth which prudent use of the property should bring.
The notion of “social justice” is found only in the fact that it is immoral (and nowhere does Rerum Novarum advocate the use of governmental force to coerce economic morality, nor to define what constitutes a “living wage”) to deprive a worker of a just pay.
How regimented is Rerum Novarum towards a free market? The only specific means that it enumerates for denying someone a just pay are illegal withholding and “the importation of labor” which it sees as depressing the labor market and which it calls “a crime which cries out to the Heavens for vengeance.” (Compare to the child-rapist protector, former slave ranch operator and paganism promoter Cardinal Mahony.)
Do you get the economic presumption to be inferred, that market-distorting excessive Immigration is necessary for an employer to contract for unfair wages. And this is not accessible only through inference: a fair wage is defined by what the market can support!
IOW, yes, the Church holds that people who work hard should get paid enough to provide for their basic necessities. Who could argue against that? But the Church explicitly denies the state the authority to forcibly redistribute wealth, rather only calls for reasonable immigration limitations so as to permit the market to force just distribution of wealth. This HAS to be regarded as all the more amazing, since, well, there weren’t to many people complaining about excessive PROTESTANT immigration very much.
Japan did have a nuclear program, but after Hiroshima were convinced that U235 was so hard to separate, their physicists reported it was a bad miracle, that it would take another year to make another bomb like that. The Nagasaki bomb showed reaction products from Plutonium which they knew was made from Plentiful U238, and any number could be made quickly. MAGIC decrypts gave insight into that level of strategic thinking, and also told us that they would claim their surrender was largely due to USSR entry, to try to deny US benefit of the bomb.
At that time, the US had 30 cyclotrons, Germany had 2, Japan and UK each had 1. That is how dominant the US was in nuclear physics at the time.
Fascinating. I’m thinking I must be the last person to know this.
Also, Okinawa provided some documentation of defense plans for the home islands, to include use of ‘dirty bombs’ on the landing areas, coupled with use of poison gas. Japan planed to accept 30 million casualties to force a million US deaths.
The US still issues purple heart medals minted in preparation for the invasion of Japan. Here is an irony: The dropping of the Nagasaki bomb was probably the single most humanitarian action in the history of the world.
Typical treatment of Korea by the japaneese.
Construct a nuke then test it in Korea rather than somewhere in Japan.
Throughout history Japan has crapped on Korea.
The Japanese nuclear bomb was more along the lines of a subcritical dirty bomb. They had a significant shortage of fissile material.
There was a plant that focused on making biological agents in Japan. It was located with an Army group headquarters at Hiroshima. One way to decontaminate a biological agent is to pass it once through a nuclear fire.
The German research program suffered from Hitler’s perception of it as “Jewish Physics” and so was funded for research, not for production. Heavy water was to be used as a moderator for a nuclear pile-a reactor. Of course we use regular water for many research reactors, the heavy water would have permitted higher activity for less fissile material.
The great barrier was a lack of fissile material. The US reactors that made fissile material initially used carbon as moderator, including the first reactor located in Chicago!!!. Imagine what would have happened if they had a problem like unto Chernobyl, which might have occurred since it was in fact the very first. Dr. Fermi ran a tight ship, comparing predictions to results with a low level of power, acutely aware of the risk.
...but the vast array of equipment and materiel he already had would have been rendered obsolete. When you go to war you have to use what you have.
A book on the subject is currently in the works...
I've read that before, way before the internet, but I can't find a source. Do you have one?
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