Posted on 06/28/2012 10:07:31 AM PDT by pinochet
The late conservative sociologist and evangelical Christian, James Q. Wilson, made an interesting observation on the manner in which Blacks, Jews, and Evangelicals relate to one another. Here is his fascinating 2008 article: http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_evangelicals.html
Here is a summary of his article. White Evangelical Christians are the strongest supporters of Israel in America, and their support for Israel comes from their religious beliefs that Israel is a fulfillment of scripture. But most American Jews have never been great fans of evangelicals, despite great efforts on the part of evangelicals to reach out to Jews.
Jews are the one white ethnic group, that has the strongest record of supporting civil rights for blacks. Jews have a strong record of supporting affirmative action for blacks, despite the fact that affirmative action harms Jews. Despite this, ADL studies have shown that blacks have the highest levels of anti-semitism of any group, with the exception of Muslims. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have made anti-semitic remarks, but this has not harmed their careers. In fact, the anti-semitism of Sharpton and Jackson has made them national celebrities, and has led to them being celebrated as national figures.
Compare the treatment that Al Sharpton gets, hosting his own show on MSNBC, with the treatment that Pat Buchanan has received. Sharpton is much worse than Buchanan, with regard to anti-semitism. Sharpton helped incite the Crown Heights riots in 1991, which killed a Jewish Student called Yankel Rosenbaum. Then there is a long list of black anti-semites who are loved by blacks, such as Louis Farrakhan, Leonard Jeffries, Amiri Baraka, Andrew Young, Khalid Muhammad, Steve Cokely, Tony Martin, David Dinkins, Malcolm X, Cynthia McKinney, Alton Maddox, etc.
Luther lived some 400 years before Hitler—and until the Nazis dug up & reprinted the obscure pamphlets of Luther’s anti-Jewish rants, his ideas on this were nearly forgotten...
Even in Luther’s own day, his wife, and other close followers were embarrassed by the cranky old-man’s rants against Jews. Luther did VERY similar violent rants against the Roman Catholics...and even of other Protestants (of the radical stripe...).
Lutheran Germany BEFORE the Nazis was quite a tolerant place for Jews...at least compared to the rest of Europe. This is one reason there were so many German Jews by the time of the 1930s, as they felt in educated Germany they had nothing to fear.
The Nazis were fundamentally racist eugenicists...seeking to improve evolution (as they saw it) who didn’t care about religion (except racism as a religion, and the worship of the Fuhrer)...whereas Luther’s case was purely religious—holding to the common-of-the-day (16th Century) view of religious tolerance (that is NONE!).
To blame the acts of fundamentally atheistic/agnostic racist eugenicists—who used the Christian religion (even while not being actually Christian themselves) on Luther...is a lot like blaming modern Democrats’ liberal wackiness, on Thomas Jefferson... There’s simply too much time between them to draw any direct connection.
Was Luther anti-Semetic? YES very much so, like MOST of the leaders (religious or non) of Europe in his day. The popes of that day were equally antagonistic to the Jews (kicked them out of Rome, for example), as was the Spanish monarchy (expulsion of all Jews from Spain in 1492), the English monarchy, the French, etc. etc.
Germany by the way of the 1930s was 50% Roman Catholic, not 2/3 Protestant. Today—while a majority are non-religious—still, it has about a 50/50 cultural divide between Roman Catholic areas and Protestant areas. Austria of course was, and is (culturally), ALL Roman Catholic. Hence Germany and Austria combined in 1938 were definitely majority Roman Catholic...as of course was (publicly) Hitler.
Two three areas of Bismarck’s empire were Catholic: Bavaria, the Rheinland, and Silesia—the latter being Polish. One can guess the proportion of Cathollcs by looking at the strength of the Center (between the liberals and the socialists) Party. Even after the Anschluss, the Cathollc population of the Third Reich is considerably less than 50%. Lots of Jews in the rump state of Austria.
Scopes was forgotten within ten years after the trial. The book he wrote was not a success. His celebrity was that of a flash in the pan.
Good post.
Of course non of that has anything to do with the greatest nation ever formed, the United States.
Some of the America haters try to smear America’s founding and existence with their old European baggage and rivalries it was bound to happen once we started letting in the 1800s immigrants with their divided loyalties.
The average Jew disdains Christians period far more than the average Christian in America disdains Jews
Alas....the tiny minority of Jewish conservatives notwithstanding it is a chasm that ebbs and flows but nonetheless is constant and providential
And given the tensions in this progressive era that perspective could not be more stark
Emancipated slaves?
I mean really?
Jews and blacks the only folks ever enslaved?
Hell....my Gallic ancestors were enslaved in closer history timeline than Jews were
That is preposterous...
You can claim the Holocaust rightfully for victimhood ....it was horrible and made Jews a primary target....and that has granted Jewish progressives and their attacks on traditional America since the 60s a lot of cover with folks fearing criticizing them and get tagged Nazi
Problem as i see it is Jewish exclusiveness and anti pluralism
Which of course Jews view as their strengths...
God will settle this one day....this conflict is not by accident however grateful traditionalists like myself may be for those Jews who reject progressivism
Im SBC....been around Jews from pals to intimate relations with Jewish women all my half century
Never tried to bring a Jew to Jesus..
..i dont know anyone who does
It aint none of that
Progressive Jews simply believe in almost nothing Fundamentalist Christians do
The whole culture war laundry list opposing sides and Jews are the special forces and predominate leadership of this war from their side in the media, Hollywood and academia
Its just how it is.....its gotten more defined starting with the 60s college radicals but even predates that
I wish things were different and we do get some cool defectors from their side but i never see Jews tossing aside the drive to always change wherever they inhabit
Luther largely opposed those who held unto beliefs that were opposed to Scripture as he understood Scripture. He believed that beliefs, whether Jewish, Catholic, or Protestant, that were contrary to the knowledge of salvation held in Sacred Scripture would (and do) damn people's souls to eternal hell, so he hated them immensely.
See my post #36. I’m just as frustrated by this as anyone else. But this is the best I can make of it. Sorry if I weren’t clear.
Again, kids who studied American history in high school or college most likely encountered his name and discussed the evolution issue and the trial with Bryan and Darrow as the chief protagonists. At least that was the case when I was in high school.
I wouldn't doubt that the film "Inherit the Wind" contains some historical inaccuracies. For some reason, they changed the names of Scopes, Bryan, Darrow, and H. L. Mencken in that film, giving them all pseudonyms.
interesting...
that's too much of a generalization.
Rome had ceased to exist by the 5th century while Jews were visible. It was easy to just blame them instead of saying that it was both Jews AND Gentiles who were to blame
Also, note that the early relations for the first 6 centuries was not nice -- Jews persecuted this sect of Judaism (see Saul etc.) right up to the destruction of Jerusalem. Then Christianity spread among gentiles and Jews still disdained this message to the gentiles. Also there were very, very, very stray incidents of Christian persecutions by Jews -- only one comes to my knowledge - the acts of a Jewish king in Yemen against Christians. But I diverge.
I meant to say that this simplification of "the Jews killed Jesus" has been with us from the start, forgetting that Jesus was a Jew and that it was Jews and Gentiles and more philosophically, ALL of us, who killed Him
The Jew-hate crowd on FR has been mostly quiet for awhile. Seems like they’re back lately.
Jews, like Catholics, are reliable Democrat voters. And Jews, like Catholics, are influential thinkers and funders of the broad conservative movement. Without those two groups, traditional WASP conservatives would have become as irrelevant in America as they are in Europe.
Surely “Yiddishe Kopfs” are not known for being illogical?
If the status of the American Negro is traced from the dark evil days of chattel slavery to becoming freedmen, then undergoing various sorts of opprobrium and opposition, to the end of Jim Crow, the picture is one of slow improvement, and more importantly, of family integrity. Then family integrity went completely bust when white liberal welfare schemes promised to help but instead bribed American Negro families to be dysfunctional. Surely “Yiddishe Kopfs” do not reason that this very last step is a good thing, or is inescapable and cannot be remedied?
1)One need not be a Dispensationalist to be well-disposed to Israel. All one needs is a dose of simple Biblical sentimentalism.
2)Apparently "Black" is a religion and "Evangelical" is a color, seeing as how the author separates the two.
3)Why wouldn't Evangelicals, or any other human being, place their ultimate beliefs first, ahead of politics and utilitarianism? One would think that Jews, whose religion regulates their lives down to the minutest detail, would understand this. How in sam hill does anyone check his Ultimate Beliefs at the entrance to the voting booth?
wow, Ansell, your slip is showing....
I wonder if such folks would say Christianity is some old Asian/Middle Eastern stuff
No, wait, non-Apostolics do -- like the ECUSA, ELCA, PCUSA etc. congratulations ansell...
You should have handed her the Hebrew originals! (I know, they were probably from the NT, but hey . . . )
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