Mitsubishi Reports Toyota Replication [of Iwamura's LENR transmutation of elements]

New Energy Times ^ | December 7, 2012 | Steve Krivit

[TXnMA]

Dec. 7, 2012 – By Steven B. Krivit –

Researchers from Toyota Central Research and Development Laboratories performed an independent replication of a Mitsubishi low-energy nuclear reaction transmutation experiment, according to a physicist from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries speaking at the American Nuclear Society LENR session on Nov. 14 in San Diego, Calif.

The physicist, Yasuhiro Iwamura, told the ANS audience that the Toyota researchers confirmed that nuclear changes from one element to another took place without the use of high-energy nuclear physics. Most scientists who have not followed this field closely consider such profound claims inconceivable. Toyota used a LENR deuterium-permeation transmutation method that Iwamura invented.

Iwamura has been working with this LENR method for 14 years. He said that one of his LENR transmutations was closely but not identically replicated by Toyota. Osaka University and Iwate University previously reported similar replications.

[Moonman62]

Iwamura talks about heat generation about five minutes into his talk, and at the very end. In neither case is he very specific. But on the earlier slide, he shows a portable energy source with heat exchanger driving a generator.

Thanks for the response, but showbiz doesn't impress me at all in this field. I'll wait for the specifics.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks TXnMA.

---

· String Theory Ping List ·

---

---

· Join · Bookmark · Topics · Google ·
· View or Post in 'blog · post a topic · subscribe ·

---

[Alamo-Girl]

LOLOL! Yes, indeed, we certainly do have more fun than cats!

[Kevmo]

What is it about “...well enough to explain it in a patent application” that you don’t understand?
***Go ahead and explain what a flame is well enough for a patent application. Very few people can do it, and indeed, no one really needs to. Because there are technologies such as ovens, stoves, internal combustion engines, lighters, etc. that have been patented without ever knowing how a flame works. Understanding flames is not necessary. Similarly, understanding how the plasma from the anomalous heat event generates nuclear events is not necessary. What is it about this whole process that you do not understand?

You display a knee-jerk, paranoid defensive attitude worse than that of a long-tailed cat in a room full of (actively) rocking chairs.
***Such a cat would have lots of injuries from such an activity. If you have problems with someone’s attitude then take up your own attitude and those of others who have been anti-science on these threads.

There seems to be no way to have a pleasant, conversational exchange with you.
***This latest set of exchanges has been far more pleasant than what I have had with skeptopaths in the past. This is the level of heat that LENR advocates have had to endure on FR. If you don’t like it, then take it up with the mods who have had more than a hand in generating the heat, and also take it up with the skeptopaths who not only generate heat but throw gasoline on the fire.

[Moonman62]

You display a knee-jerk, paranoid defensive attitude worse than that of a long-tailed cat in a room full of (actively) rocking chairs.

I think the word "childish" is what you're looking for.

There seems to be no way to have a pleasant, conversational exchange with you.

Watching him have a meltdown as he tried to get FR to declare belief in cold fusion a protected religious belief was kind of pleasant.

[Moonman62]

This latest set of exchanges has been far more pleasant than what I have had with skeptopaths in the past. This is the level of heat that LENR advocates have had to endure on FR. If you don’t like it, then take it up with the mods who have had more than a hand in generating the heat, and also take it up with the skeptopaths who not only generate heat but throw gasoline on the fire.

You can dish it out, but you can't take it. Now, instead of calling your critics seagulls, you are calling them skeptopaths.

[Kevmo]

You can dish it out, but you can’t take it.
***Bowlsheet, bull shiite, bull$#!+. The thing I have been complaining about is that I am not allowed to dish it out on an even playing field the same as what is being dished out to LENR enthusiasts. As far as anything else you have to say, I’m sure if what you have to say is worthwhile then some other legitimate freeper will posit the same point.

[Kevmo]

Moonboy has been among the most egregious of detractors on these LENR threads.

[Wonder Warthog]

“BTW, if you have a link to Storm’s work, I would appreciate it.”

It depends on what you’re looking for. His “hard-core” stuff can be found at LENR/CANR.

A quick intro to him and a link to “A Student’s Guide to Cold Fusion” (a free on-line condensation of his book) is here:

http://coldfusionnow.org/edmund-storms-a-students-guide-to-cold-fusion/

He has been very prolific, so the available possibilities are “large”.

[Wonder Warthog]

"That doesn't look good for energy production or Rossi the Fraud. The amount of heat produced is below their ability to detect it. They also detected no gamma rays, nor were they able to detect the amount of D2 consumed."

The experiment was specifically designed to accomplish transmutation.....not heat. That they didn't detect heat is to be expected.

"It's a curious result, though. The paper is 10 years old."

A lot of old work is suddenly seeing the light of day (or at least being discovered by others than the inhabitants of the "cold fusion ghetto"). Perhaps you can tell me how the fact that the paper is 10 years old affects its validity.

[TXnMA]

Kevmo: "If you have problems with someone’s attitude then take up your own attitude and those of others who have been anti-science on these threads."

TXnMA: "There seems to be no way to have a pleasant, conversational exchange with you."

Kevmo: "***This latest set of exchanges has been far more pleasant than what I have had with skeptopaths in the past."

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wonder Warthog, two questions:

1) Have I shown any sign of being "anti-science" on this thread?

2) After our conversation here, would you classify me as a "skeptopath"?

[TXnMA]

Thanks! I've already visited LENR/CANR, and have looked at photos/video stills of Storms' lab setups. Very nice!

Storms obviously operates with a considerably bigger budget than do most independent researchers -- and what he shows to the public reflects that fact -- plus -- evidence of good experiment design and technique.

[Moonman62]

The experiment was specifically designed to accomplish transmutation.....not heat. That they didn't detect heat is to be expected.

If you read the paper, or my excerpt from it, you'd know that the claimed transmutation is supposed to produce heat of a specified amount.

[Moonman62]

Perhaps you can tell me how the fact that the paper is 10 years old affects its validity.

I'm just stating a fact. It's been ten years since a supposedly major breakthrough, yet nothing has come of it. Sure, he claims more transmutations, but where's the excitement beyond the usual cold fusion fanbois astroturfing of blog posts all over the Internet?

[TXnMA]

Kevmo also wrote: "Similarly, understanding how the plasma from the anomalous heat event generates nuclear events is not necessary. What is it about this whole process that you do not understand?"

Plasma is a HIGH ENERGY state. I have seen no credible evidence or data indicating that a plasma state occurs in a LOW ENERGY Nuclear Reaction. Until you can point me to such (replicated) experimental results and data, you are correct: I do not "understand" that "the plasma from the anomalous heat event generates nuclear events" -- because it ain't been shown (to me) to be so!

And don't think you can snow this old pchem dog by tossing around terms like "plasma".

My very first patent (P/N 3866398) relied on the high energy in a silicon plasma generated by laser ablation to effect dissociation of a normally-inert reagent (Freon vapor) to create free fluorine radicals which then reacted in the gas phase with the vaporized silicon.

As for "your" 'patent claim': no plasma = no prior art = no patent.

[TXnMA]

Not sure what happened. This supposedly posted before my #135 -- and they should be read in that order.

---

(I really don't know why I go to the trouble of explaining the following to you -- except that other thread participants might find the explanation to be of interest. I have ceased to expect any rational explanation to affect your attitude...)

~~~~~~~~

TXnMA: What is it about “...well enough to explain it in a patent application” that you don’t understand?

Kevmo:"***Go ahead and explain what a flame is well enough for a patent application. Very few people can do it, and indeed, no one really needs to. Because there are technologies such as ovens, stoves, internal combustion engines, lighters, etc. that have been patented without ever knowing how a flame works." "Understanding flames is not necessary."

In my #107, I wrote: "Flame physics is well understood, is accepted as 'prior art', and is used all the time in designing engines. LENR physics is not (yet) well understood."

The key term therein is the patent office term, "prior art". The application of flame has a database of prior art going at least back to the first Neanderthal to eat a 'possum killed and cooked by a forest fire. And the patents to which you referred are all additions to that "prior art" base. By referring to that "prior art" in an application patent, indeed, your "Understanding flames is not necessary." is accepted as a given. Appeal to "prior art" is the key to avoiding discussion of first principles in patent applications.

But, I also wrote, "LENR physics is not (yet) well understood."

IOW, LENR has yet to establish a base of "prior art".

Therefore, understanding, discussion, and demonstration of "first principles" is still required for any application patent based on LENR, etc. There is no conspiracy; the "homework" simply has not been done yet.

~~~~~~~~

I reiterate: Can you (are you willing to) comprehend the difference?

~~~~~~~~

[TXnMA]

I note that I filed that patent application thirty-nine (39) years ago — and that it has been cited as “prior art” approximately fifty (50) times since then...

[Wonder Warthog]

"Therefore, understanding, discussion, and demonstration of "first principles" is still required for any application patent based on LENR, etc. There is no conspiracy; the "homework" simply has not been done yet."

Nope. Afraid not. A theoretical basis is not, and never has been, a requirement for getting a patent. A working model is "supposed" to be an equivalent. But the US patent office simply refuses to examine ANY patent involving cold fusion. Some few researchers have managed to patent aspects of the subject by concealing the direct connection to cold fusion.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Storms obviously operates with a considerably bigger budget than do most independent researchers -- and what he shows to the public reflects that fact -- plus -- evidence of good experiment design and technique."

Not really.....he's retired. Pays for it himself plus what some few enthusiasts might donate. He does contract out to do some calorimetric work for other CF researchers, so picks up a few bucks that way.

[Wonder Warthog]

"It's been ten years since a supposedly major breakthrough, yet nothing has come of it. Sure, he claims more transmutations, but where's the excitement beyond the usual cold fusion fanbois astroturfing of blog posts all over the Internet?"

Which attests to the success of the pathological skeptics from the hot fusion physics community and their allies (look in a mirror) in keeping research bottled up.

Fortunately, "loose cannon" Andrea Rossi has blown a large hole in the wall of the ghetto built around LENR by the above actors, and has gotten a lot of older (successful) work re-examined, and a lot of new work started.