The Oath Against Modernism and the Spirit of Vatican II

Catholic Family News ^ | January, 2000 | Raymond B. Marcin

[Unam Sanctam]

Yes, the "spirit" of Vatican II was in many ways a destructive force. However, that does not mean that the Pope and the Council itself are heretical. In fact, you may not believe it, but Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger are actually the good guys and are helping to preserve the deposit of faith from modernists and false teaching that has crept into the Church.

[nickcarraway]

Do you believe the eucharist becomes the Body and Blood of christ?

[sinkspur]

Do you believe the eucharist becomes the Body and Blood of christ?

The Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ.

Bread and wine BECOME the Eucharist.

[nickcarraway]

Correct. You do believe that?

[sinkspur]

Correct.

I was correct; you were not correct. The Eucharist does not "become" the Body and Blood of Christ.

You do believe that?

Yes.

[Unam Sanctam]

Thanks for the interesting extract from the Catena Aurea. However, just because Jerome seems to think that all Jews are still guilty of the death of Jesus, as such, and Gentiles absolved, I have not seen that this is a teaching that has always and everywhere been taught by the Church's magisterium, and whether there is unanimous consent of the fathers, and not simply one father, Jerome. I note that the Catena also cites Origen, although not everything taught by Origen was held to be orthodox.

[nickcarraway]

Actaully, if you check your dictionary, we were both correct, since there are different usages of ``become.''

[sinkspur]

What is the Eucharist? It is the Body and Blood of Christ.

To say that the Eucharist "becomes" the Body and Blood of Christ means that it transforms into something it is not. The Eucharist, by definition, is already the Body and Blood of Christ.

So, it would be incorrect to say that the Eucharist "becomes" the Body and Blood of Christ.

[nickcarraway]

It could also mean that the Eucharist ``becomes'' the Body and Blood of Christ from something else- namely bread and wine. Acceptable usage.

[kstewskis]

Wow! This is wonderful! I could spend hours on that site! How I wished I had seen it before I was baptized and confirmed in April of '99. Extremely informational, for a relative "newbie" like myself.

I will be passing this link along to some of the candidates/catechumens coming through our parish through our OCIA.

In addition, I will forward this site to my Mom, who will be confirmed this coming Holy Saturday.

Thank you so much for passing along this terrific find, CoD and Max!

Hey Jay! Check this out and let me/us know what you think.

Apologia

[sinkspur]

It could also mean that the Eucharist ``becomes'' the Body and Blood of Christ from something else- namely bread and wine.

The Eucharist is already the Body and Blood of Christ.

How can it become something it already is?

I'm done arguing about it.

[nickcarraway]

Check a dictionary. It's a matter of usage. The Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ. It becomes the Body and Blood of Christ from bread.

[RaginCajunTrad]

"I see no inconsistency. The Muslims may worship the same God, but their understanding of Him is false and full of error."

I'm sorry, but I think that is the type of nuancing that has been the confusing legacy of the spirit of VII. From all I read about Islam, their god is not the same as our God. No way. It's nuancing the language.

[RaginCajunTrad]

"Yes, the "spirit" of Vatican II was in many ways a destructive force."

Correction, not was, but is.

[sinkspur]

From all I read about Islam, their god is not the same as our God. No way.

Then read more. And meet more Muslims.

[sinkspur]

You gonna let your mother link to a website that says John Paul II is an illegitimate Pope?

Tell your OCIA class that there is some nasty stuff linked to that website (Jewish Tribal Review

[RaginCajunTrad]

"And meet more Muslims."

I have met plenty. No problem with them, but not a great deal of respect for Islam. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to deduce the vast difference between Islam and Christianity. A dreamer maybe, but a sane person, no.

All one has to do is read about the life of Mohammed. Anyone who thinks different about Islam is in denial.

[Land of the Irish]

It's a great website. Thanks for the link.

[Land of the Irish]

Next we will hear that the Hindus worship the same God as us but they don't understand him as fully as the Muslims do.

"M.K Gandhi [Mahatma Ghandhi] in his book Hindu Dharma says, "Cow-protection is an article of faith in Hinduism. Apart from its religious sanctity, it is an ennobling creed." (p.108). He also says, "If someone were to ask me what the most important outward manifestation of Hinduism was, I would suggest that it was the idea of cow-protection." (p. 110). He further says, "No one who does not believe in cow-protection can possibly be a Hindu." (p. 118)."

"It is because of the cows divine position that Hindus regard its urine, and dung as purifier [4]. Considering the divine status of the cow, some special provision has been made in the constitution of India for its protection. Moreover, slaughtering of the cow has been banned in several provinces of India."

Fridays and Ember Days abstinence have always been tough for me. Will I soon have to abstain 24/7 for 365/365?