Posted on 08/28/2006 8:44:01 PM PDT by Quix
This book is excellent. It speaks to thoughts, feelings, facts I've long had strong similar to identical convictions about.
Excerpts from Dr Laura's Foreword:
" . . . sold more than one million copies of [I] The Proper Care And Feeding of Husbands [/I]"
. . .
"I expected a huge, ugly backlash. . . . the general public--especially the men--was incredibly receptive. What touched me the most was the sad, pained, resigned letters I received from so many nice men who were suffering deeply. These men explained that while they were deeply in love with their wives, those wives were literally on a countdown: When the kids were all grown and gone, the men were going to leave as well. Why? Because they were abused and neglected. The abuse did not take the form of physical violence; it was much more subtle nagging, criticism, berating, demeaning, dismissing, and rejecting that has become commonplace in American marriages where men are looked upon as side dishes, not the main course."
" . . . When Gloria Steinem enthusiastically proclaimed that 'Women need men like fish need a bicycle,' more than one generation of women was sent in the wrong direction in their search for love, security, bonding, and the joy of a quality marriage. Instead, women's organizations support behaviors that leave women alone and men designated as unimportant: unmarried sex as entertainment, shacking up without a commitment (marriage), single-mothering as a choice, abortions as birth control, no-fault divorce at will, men as oppressors or predators, and so forth. I often ask these women what they intend to say to their male children about their importance in this brave new female-oriented world. They don't have an answer."
"Because we hardly raise men to be anything masculine anymore, we have at least two generations of men who have no clue what it means to be a 'man.' Hence too many guys are, as I have lamented many times on my radio program, [I] males [/I] instead of [I] men. [/I]"
". . . Today's males have had their innate urge to provide and protect removed from their spines, guts, heads, hearts and souls."
". . . .The whole blame, in their minds, is on the men! Unbelievable! When I bring to their attention that for every step of the way (unmarried sex, all birth control has risk, living together without marriage, no spiritual center to their relationships) they were complicit, they get angry with me. It seems that women have been trained to have 'no rules' but still blame men when things don't go as their fantasies would lead them."
. . . .
"The bottom line is that men are blamed for their own and women's misbehaviors. Somehow that doesn't seem to be thmentality you'd expect from groups that espouse 'empowering' women."
" . . . It's clear to me that there isn't a consensus on what 'being a man' means. Women give mixed, confused signals and messages because women are basically confused between what they're being indoctrinated to want and what they really want. Clint Easwood, Keanu Reeves, Kevin Costner, Russell Crowe, Denzel Washington, and others are examples of strong, primal animal men. Women are drawn to such strength (epitomized by the high-school bad boys) because biologically, women are drawn to men who can provide and protect so that they can be safe raising their babies. . . . "
". . . . I can't tell you how many times I've had to remind men that they are [I] men [/I], and that this designation is not about biology; it is about strength, will, honor, courage, leadership, sacrifice, compassion, and love."
- - - -
Quote at the beginning of chapter 1:
"The ordinary man is passive . . . . Against major events he is as helpless as against the elements. So far from endeavoring to influence the future, he simply lies down and lets things happen to him.
--George Orwell
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Chap 1:
"WHat do you think would happen if Jesus were to appear at your church next Sunday and say to people what he says in the Bible?
'Hypocrites!'
'White-washed tombs.'
'Fools!'
'Dull.'
And 'a brood of vipers fit for hell!'
Given how [I] nice [/I] the church expects Christian men to be, I think we'd rush the pulpit and wrest the microphone from his hand. 'Tsk, tsk, tsk,' we'd mutter scornfully. We'd wag our fingers, reminding him of the supreme importance placed on manners and appearances in this holy place. Some women, reaching for soap bars to wash out his mouth, would recite our unofficial church motto: 'If you don't have anything nice to say, Jesus, don't say it at all.' [I] He really should be ashamed of himself.'"
"Shame is big in the church. Helps keep guys in line. Keeps their heads down. Keeps them humble. Supposedly."
"Actually, without shame, guys might be able to live the vital life God intended. This world would be a lot better.
"Instead, we have [I] passive, naive Christian Nice Guys.] [/I] We sit next to them in church all the time, not realizing their identity is being squashed, their will being broken, the lives of those who love and depend upon them being diminished as well. Everyone loses when we follow a false ideal."
". . . . Many sermons we hear are designed to make Jesus appear [I] always [/I] approachable, [I] always [/I] calm, and [I] endlessly [/I] patient. That's fiction . . . this mild Jesus has more to do with EAstern mysticism than with the gospel record. He did [I] not [/I] remain 'above it all,' emotionally hovering above us silly little humans. He got down in the muck and mire of life with us. He really lived; he really felt ey-watering joy and soul-crushing pain. He didn't assume the Lotus, drinking tea and finding us mildly amusing while trying to clear his head of conflict and division. Jesus, the dissident, brought the world both--the kind of conflict and division needed to shake things up for our own good."
"I created my own sanitized, unauthorized translation, [I] The Nice Guy Bible (NGB), [/I] which I continue to see a lot of other guys carrying around. I rewrote some parts and took others out of context to hide from God and from what he really wanted of me. I kept this distortion of Jesus neatly in my mind, the way a Nice Guy feels he should, until it was destroyed by an unusual and unexpected epiphany: Christ's humor. His blessed sarcasm helped me begin to see how he [I] actually [/I] lived and talked, as opposed to how I'd thought. A mental fog lifted. At last my life received a long-needed clarity. I neared the red-hot bonfire of truth, which warmed and saved me. A greater taste for life awakened."
. . . .
"Bill Hybels says that passive christians repel non-Christians from the faith:
[Hybels quote]:
I've learned through the years that seekers are not impressed with spinelessness . . . . Most of the time, seekers . . . . respect and admire christians who aren't afraid to take a stand . . .
Let me say it once more: Seekers have little respect for weak Christians. Deep down they're looking for somebody--anybody--to step up and proclaim the truth and then to live it boldly. (Becoming a Contagious Christian, 63-64)
- - - - -
"The convincing, repetitive message of my inherent worthlessness helped lay waste to my life in disasterous ways, stealing my passion, energy, and resources, and churning my gut, which is where resentment and anxiety live. . . . "
. . .
“The church told me to worry more about sin tan purpose, more about keeping up with appearances than searching for and embracing meaning. More about what I shouldn’t do than what should do. More about being nice than being good. Fear of failure, of falling short, of trying, but not being perfect, has us paralyzed, immobile, and,eventually indifferent. “
“Fear-based religiosity creates dangerous tension that ruins marriages, careers, children—sometimes even our souls. We [I] should [/I] avoid sin, for many reasons—that it separates us from God and from life are atop my list. [I] But so does the immobile life. It’s just harder to diagnose.” [/I]
. . . .
“Another who has noted the perplexing prevalence of Christian male passivity is theologian R. C. Sproul, who says,
‘When I became a Christian, I understood tha Jesus took my sin away. What I never heard from Him was that He intended to take my backbone away.’”
“ ‘Nice’ can’t confront this world’s sources of pain. Niceness makes people agreeable, not good. Somehow we have mistaken niceness for righteousness.”
. . . .
“The meaning of the word [I] nice [/I] is as unreliable as the people it describes. Today it is synonymous with ‘pleasant’ and ‘agreeable,’ but it has also meant ‘effeminate,’ ‘unmanly,’ ‘unable to endure much,’ ‘dainty,’ ‘reluctant,’ ‘ignorant,’ and ‘difficult to please.’ Nevertheless, remarkably, Christian men can be shunned in church and home if they are not unfailingly pleasant, agreeable, and in possession of impeccable manners. These attributes of niceness are taken to be expressions of a Spirit-filled life, yet none of these words or concepts are biblically mentioned as part of the Spirit’s fruit.”
“Besides, the mind of a Christian Nice Guy is anything but pleasant or agreeable. For reasons explained later, these men are often secretive and manipulative. They harbor hissing resentments, and, given all the games they feel they need to play just to survive, their wives ([I] If [/I] they can hold on to a wife) may come to question their own sanity. Though they inwardly exhaust themselves in their determination to hide it, they are easily irritated and frustrated. When nasty behavior surfaces, they may mistakenly or dismissively explain it away as the result of testosterone fluctuation or work place preoccupation. They may label it a kind of male menopause, which is the trend today, or give it a name like Irritable Male Syndrome, which largely ignores a profound spiritual component.”
“Appearances are deceiving, as this wife of a CNG laments:”
“Before we were married, he did all types of things to prove he handled issues. Two weeks after the wedding, off came the gloves. And he told me under no circumstances am I to open my mouth. I barely made it through the first year. I have struggled to stay married to him. . . . “
“His attitudes, mood swings, explosive screaming fits, all the things he has held in, all come out . . . .My husband tells me all the time he is just a Nice Guy. He isn’t, and he isn’t nice to be married to, either.”
There’s a 25 item quiz one can consider to measure their degree of likelihood of being a CNG. It’s worth prayerfully pondering. It’s on pages 21-22.
Coughlin covers Christ’s humorous and biting sarcasm very illuminatingly, refreshingly.
And, he adds on pp44-45:
“Nice, tame, spiritually arrogant people often don’t get or appreciate sarcasm because it disrupts the status quo. [I] Sarcasm bothers them because it stimulates the necessary work of self-criticism, a cornerstone of moral credibility.” [/I]
“But blessed sarcasm does help the weak and needy. Said one subscriber to Hartman’s site [Christian humor site]: ‘I struggle with severe chronic depression. Sometimes the only way I can get going in the morning is by reading your jokes. I just wanted you to know someone appreciates what you do. Christ loves him, you and me enough to wield the mighty and poignant sword of sarcasm.”
He has good chapters on masculinity; working with, in and ministering in and out of one’s passion; and how to have a healthy humor, sarcasm, fierceness after the pattern of Christ.
I think this is a very timely and crucial book. I think it’s one that most every Christian man would profit from reading. Thankfully, those who love them would profit from the men applying their new knowledge and insights in their relationships and lives.
He cautions about jumping off the deep-end with this end of the spectrum, too. I think he has written a very balanced and Biblical book that goes a long way toward correcting a lot of misconstrued constructions on Christianity and about Christ.
I strongly recommend it to any and every thoughtful Christian man. Women could also gain fruitful insights into their men.
So, because Christ was hostile, you should be? No matter the context?
Isn't he God? Does that mean Christians get to do whatever God does?
Aren't some things to be left to God?
Can God commit the sin of pride? No. But people can. You see the difference?
Yes, the feminist movement has been sooo helpful to men, especially the children who are now being brought up in our government schools and liberal colleges. Another reason to send kids to Christian schools or homeschool them. Young men have been deceived into thinking that they don't have to be the heads of their households and they abandon such to their wives and 'girlfriends.'
Another reason to send kids to Christian schools or homeschool them. Young men have been deceived into thinking that they don't have to be the heads of their households and they abandon such to their wives and 'girlfriends.'
= = = = =
INDEED!
And then when the women still rail at them, they walk away bewildered with an utter sense of abject failure and no clue as to what they could/should have done differently, more successfully. Very sad.
Having been a secretary to a women's studies program at a liberal and well known and respected university, I agree with Quix. Women are being deceived today by the feminists into thinking they don't need a man, don't need to stay home and care for children because it's better to go out and work and make a living, don't need to submit to anyone, etc., etc. I'm sure you know the routine. There are also men in this movement who have become so whimpy that I don't know how a woman CAN respect them. But in my own experience, it's mostly women who run the show in that movement.
Perhaps you will agree with me that men should not be looking to women for their messages at all, but to God in His Spirit and His Word. I believe that is what the author of the book with which you started the thread is saying.
Perhaps you will agree with me that men should not be looking to women for their messages at all, but to God in His Spirit and His Word. I believe that is what the author of the book with which you started the thread is saying.
= = = =
I would certainly agree with that.
But that's true for all of us in all our relationships on all issues--work, home, church . . .
The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit.
Proverbs 18:21
True, dear Mary.
But I think we are all right--as starting as that may be! LOL.
Yes, the women are complicit; a major factor in the dumbing down and wimping down of men. But they couldn't have achieved it without men's pied-piper allowing them to.
AND
We are all to look to Christ as our leader, model, standard, measure in all things and certainly in all our relationships.
I don't know if you can appreciate from a woman's perspective . . .
how DIFFICULT it is for most men--especially those growing up under the feminist cloud, heresy etc. . . .
how DIFFICULT it is for most men to keep their eyes fixed on Christ as their model WHEN THEIR VIRTUALLY ONLY emotionally significant relationship is with THEIR WOMAN--to whom they are affixed to varying degrees like a starved, sick, puppy dog desperate for any and all crumbs of affirmation and clue that he's doing at least a decent if not wonderful job. While the feminist polluted woman feel compelled to slap her man down and DISconfirm him at every turn in almost every way.
WHAT A SET-UP for shredding the home and family!
From the pit of hell.
And, dear sister, God Himself has decreed that the hubby SHOULD LISTEN to the wife else his prayers will not be heard.
So, it's easy to say and RIGHT to say--all of us should have our eyes fixed on Christ as our standard and model. Yet it's also fitting ot understand that BY DESIGN, men are overwhelmingly compelled, driven, set-up to care most intensely for how well or not they please, satisfy their woman.
(DieHard sees RED) This particular writer in this quote needs to get out more. Our Moms did a fine job raising our generation to be masculine. And we are well clued up on what it is to be manly, thanks. Wonder if that writer understands what it is to be feminine? (doubt it)
That writer missed out on my little brother by about a year, and me by about 15 years. And she's too early for my son by about 10 years. Same holds true for all our friends. There's still plenty few of us yet around, she's merely hanging around with no-hopers, losers and scroats.
Social Darwinianism is alive and well. Nothing unusual happening here, folks. Nothing to see. Move along.
Advice to that particular writer: stop hanging around the singles bars and supermarkets: you'll never find real men there, only scroats and no-hopers. Stop watching "Sex and the City": real life ain't like that, and you'll grow old lonely and miserable if you try living like they do. Stop playing bingo because you'll never get really lucky playing a mug's game.
Shed a few pounds if you can, or at least quit smoking. And lose the militant feminist attitude: we know women are equal yet different, and respect that: always have. Get some religion instead: it's much more attractive. *DieHard*
> Thanks for the post, .30Carbine.
Apologies, mis-attributed my response. Intended for Quix. Just goes to show...!
*DieHard*
Amen. You are one of the "manliest" manly men I know! (: I'm so glad you posted your response to the thread.
Dear Quix, perhaps you are making reference to this passage...?
The husbands, in like manner, dwelling with [them], according to knowledge, as to a weaker vessel -- to the wife -- imparting honour, as also being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers be not hindered.
1 Peter 3:7 (Young's Literal Translation)
I think that's the one. I don't recall what translation I got my meaning from.
Thanks.
That writer is Dr Laura Schlessinger sp? and she gets a lot of her understanding of current social and psychological realities from the callers in to her radio show.
That is a very accurate reflection of at least a certain sizeable percentage of our nation sociologically, psychologically.
I'm glad you have several to cite on the other side. But please avoid underestimating the problem.
> That writer is Dr Laura Schlessinger sp? and she gets a lot of her understanding of current social and psychological realities from the callers in to her radio show.
Radio talk-back should also be avoided, just like singles-bars and supermarkets. No real men are going to pick over the scabs on their souls over the airwaves on radio talk-back. It just isn't done. Only pathetic no-hopers and losers will ever contribute to the discussion. That won't work!
> I'm glad you have several to cite on the other side. But please avoid underestimating the problem.
I don't see a problem. Like I said, Social Darwinianism is taking its toll. If Dr Laura needs a date or something, all she need do is stop being a wallflower and -- oh I dunno -- join the volunteer fire brigade or the RSPCA or the local Surf Lifesaving club. Help out at a soup kitchen or join the army. Or something. But nattering on talk-back radio about the (perceived) inadequacies of (some) modern males? Crikey! Can't think of a more depressing thing to do.
Counter-productive, in fact. Life's too short.
Hey, am I on that list? If not, please add me. Thx!
It's a side point, but I always found it fascinating that the woman's exchange with the serpent took place in Adam's presence, and she actually ate the fruit as he stood by. (Gen. 3:6)
He knew exactly what was going on, but the woman was deceived. He remained silent, and allowed it to play out. It was Adam's treason against God, and she was caught in the middle.
This subject of acting like a man instead of a wuss is rich ore for the church to mine. Our culture has left a big gaping wound out there, due to this "gentle, meek and mild" expectation of men. What a magnet to draw these hurting relationships into the Kingdom.
Dr Laura is on our side. She does a great job and helps millions of people. She is very happily married with a son in Iraq--I think a Marine.
I have nothing but praise for Dr Laura. She's also, I think, somewhat vulnerable to coming the rest of the way toward accepting Christ as her true Messiah. Prayers for her son and for her ministry are in order.
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