"Dr. Armageddon" and the Future of Israel

American Vision ^ | 7/31/2007 | Gary DeMar

[topcat54]

John Hagee’s “Christians United for Israel” held its annual meeting in Washington, D.C., last month (July 2007). Supporters of CUFI are looking forward to Armageddon. Of course, they believe they won’t be around to experience it. God will finally fulfill his covenant promises to Israel, but not until He wipes out millions of Jews and billions of others around the world in one final judgment. No wonder an increasing number of people fear “Dr. Armageddon” and his millions of followers. Could their political clout push us toward an all-out Mideast war? There are Jews who support Hagee and CUFI, but I bet they don’t know the whole story.
           
John Walvoord writes that these supposed future judgments will be “without parallel in the history of the world. According to Revelation 6:7 the judgments attending the opening of the fourth seal involve the death with sword, famine, and wild beasts of one fourth of the world’s population. If this were applied to the present world population now approaching three billion, it would mean that 750,000,000 people would perish, more than the total population of North America, Central America, and South America combined.”¹
           
Hal Lindsey supports Walvoord’s position, affirming that during the “great tribulation” there will be “death on a massive scale. It staggers the imagination to realize that one-fourth of the world’s population will be destroyed within a matter of days. According to projected census figures this will amount to nearly one billion people!”² Of course, with the latest census figures (6.6 billion), with the dispensational view in mind, about 1.65 billion people will die. Not only does the world come in for a beating under the dispensational hermeneutic, but Israel is specifically hit hard. Walvoord, with his view of a future post-rapture “great tribulation,” must claim that a large number of Jews living in Israel will be slaughtered. He writes:

The purge of Israel in their time of trouble is described by Zechariah in these words: “And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith Jehovah, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried” (Zechariah 13:8, 9). According to Zechariah’s prophecy, two thirds of the children of Israel in the land will perish, but the one third that are left will be refined and be awaiting the deliverance of God at the second coming of Christ which is described in the next chapter of Zechariah.³

Israel’s present population is around 7 million. If two-thirds of the Jews living in Israel at the time of the “great tribulation” are to die, this will mean the death of more than 4.5 million! In addition, there is continued immigration from the former Soviet Union supported by Christian organizations like “On Wings of Eagles.” Financial support is raised by Christians to fund Jewish settlements in the occupied territories. “‘This is a biblical issue,’ says Theodore T. Beckett, a Colorado developer who founded the Christian-sponsored, adopt-a-settlement program. ‘The Bible says in the last days the Jews will be restored to the nation of Israel.’“⁴ For every three people who enter, two of them will be killed during the dispensational version of the “great tribulation.” Why aren’t today’s dispensationalists warning Jews about this coming holocaust by encouraging them to leave Israel until the conflagration is over? Instead, we find dispensationalists supporting and encouraging the relocation of Jews to the land of Israel. For what? A future holocaust?
           
Israel was warned by Jesus to “flee to the mountains” (Matt. 24:16). The New Testament is filled with warnings about the coming A.D. 70 holocaust with no encouragement to take up residence in Jerusalem. In fact, there was a mass exodus from the city by those who understood the world-wide implications of the gospel message and the approaching destruction of what was the center of Jewish worship at the time (John 4:21–24).
           
Preterists believe that the events described in Matthew 24:1–34 were fulfilled in the events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. “The guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom [they] murdered between the temple and the altar” (Matt. 23:35) fell upon the generation of Jews who “did not recognize the time of [their] visitation” (Luke 19:44) and crucified “the Lord of glory” (1 Cor. 2:8). How do we know this? Because Jesus told us: “Truly I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation” (Matt. 23:36 and 24:34). No future generation of Jews is meant here. Hagee and his supporters are wrong and dangerous.

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1. John F. Walvoord, Israel in Prophecy (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan/Academie, [1962] 1988) 108.

2. Hal Lindsey, There’s a New World Coming (New York: Bantam Books, [1973] 1984), 90. Emphasis in original.

3. Walvoord, Israel in Prophecy, 108. Emphasis added.

4. Ann LoLordo, “Evangelical Christians Come to Jews’ Aid,” Atlanta Constitution (August 8, 1997), A8.

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Permission to reprint granted by American Vision P.O. Box 220, Powder Springs, GA 30127, 800-628-9460.

[Uncle Chip]

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

That's an interesting verse. The damned will apparently be resurrected to face the GWT Judgment in their own bodies and then cast soul and body into hell.

[Ping-Pong]

That's an interesting verse. The damned will apparently be resurrected to face the GWT Judgment in their own bodies and then cast soul and body into hell.

In their own "flesh" bodies or spiritual bodies? That is the part I go back and forth on. I believe "all" are changed into a spiritual body but someone I very much admire because of his Biblical knowledge believes it is a flesh body.

One day, probably soon, we will know........Ping

[hosepipe]

No doubt about Muslims openly and brazenly threatening the entire world with a Nuclear holocaust.. Its happening right on the TV news daily.. Currently Iran.. and Irans minions Hezbollah and Hamas.. the Saudi finaced groups which are many.. and probably groups "we" don't even know about..

This would cause chaos on a wide scale in many areas of human events.. By the way its no secret this is PLANNED.. and being planned.. Whats NOT usually talked about is the return of the so-called MUSLIM MESSIAH the Madi..

Worldly events are streaming toward some kind of chaos.. no doubt about that.. Something may happen soon too. To shine this on as superstition is silly.. Them muzzies are serious.. Muslims are in your face superstition.. That superstition can blow up in your FACE.. After all WE are only infidels..

Just a thought re-reading the bible might not be a bad idea..

[Ping-Pong]

Whats NOT usually talked about is the return of the so-called MUSLIM MESSIAH the Madi..

Is this the Imam that is supposed to come out of a well? Can you tell us more about it?

[hosepipe]

[.. Is this the Imam that is supposed to come out of a well? Can you tell us more about it? ..]

Anti-Christ maybe?..
Considering the depths of the Muslim mind could result in Moonbattery..

[topcat54]

What about the resurrection of damnation in John 5:29

Same idea, just that they receive their "dishonorable" bodies in which they experience eternal torment.

[topcat54]

The rapture resurrection probably takes place somewhere between Rev 10:7 ...

But you are admitting that Reveation is silent on this so-called rapture resurrction separate from the resurrection of chapter 20.

And there is no rapture resurrection separate from the final resurrection in 1 Cor 15. That is plain from the reading:

"23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power." (1 Cor. 15)

There are folks who wish to insert something like 1007 years between "those who are Christ's at His coming" and "then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father", but such an insertion of time is clearly unwarranted from the text and context. At the resurrection of the saint is th end, followed immediately by judgment and glorification/damnation.

There is only one future coming of Jesus Christ, that which the Church commonly calls the "second coming". All Christ's saints are resurrected at the same time at the second coming.

[topcat54]

Just a thought re-reading the bible might not be a bad idea..

I do not find any reference to muslims or nuclear weapons in the Bible. Neither do I find any reference to the United States, England, modern Israel, Iraq, or Egypt, the former Soviet Union, the Common Market, Muammar al-Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein, and a whole host of other people and places that seem to occupy the speech of modern pop prophecy preachers.

They are mostly the invention of folks who do not know how to properly read, study, and interpret the Bible with any real authority.

[invoman]

Ping, this is a good website that kinda goes into some depth into Islamic eschatology:

Answering Islam

It is almost "eerie"...their "good guys" are the Biblical "bad guys" and vice-versa.

[hosepipe]

[.. They are mostly the invention of folks who do not know how to properly read, study, and interpret the Bible with any real authority. ..]

Are you an authority?..

[invoman]

...modern Israel..

From Number of a man by Philip Mauro. He wrote this in 1909

(Bold emphasis mine)

And it should be noted in this connection that Zionism, while intensely national in character, does not propose to revive the ancient religion of the Jewish people. This is, to my mind, the strangest feature of Zionism. Every national revival among the Jews in their past history has been a religious revival. That there should ever be a national revival of Judaism which should be absolutely destitute of the religious element, and which should make absolutely no appeal to the religious feelings of the people, would be deemed an a priori impossibility. And yet it is necessary, in order for prophecy to be fulfilled, that a large number of Jews should return to, and should occupy, Palestine in a condition of religious apostasy. This event seems to be now close at hand; and, in spite of all opposition, hatred, spoliation, and persecution, the hated and despised Jews have possessed themselves of such financial resources, and of such commercial influence, in every part of the world, as to prepare all that is needed for the rapid fulfilment of the other steps of the prophetic programme. [282]

It a great book and can be read online. What Ifound fascinating is that this man seemed to be perplexed (remember, he wrote it in 1909), but saw no other way in order for prophecy to be fulfilled.

[Uncle Chip]

But you are admitting that Reveation is silent on this so-called rapture resurrction separate from the resurrection of chapter 20.

It isn't clearly stated because Jesus already said "no man knows the time and the hour --- only His Heavenly Father". So how would John know.

However he did know that those who died as martyrs during the Tribulation would be resurrected after it was all over but before the 1000 years begins.

And there is no rapture resurrection separate from the final resurrection in 1 Cor 15. That is plain from the reading:

As long as you fit Thessalonians in there as well, right???

"23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power." (1 Cor. 15)

There are folks who wish to insert something like 1007 years between "those who are Christ's at His coming" and "then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father"

The 1000 years comes after he delivers the kingdom. It won't take Him 1000 years to put down the rebellion and make the delivery.

At the resurrection of the saint is th end, followed immediately by judgment and glorification/damnation.

You forgot the 1000 years --- it's clearly stated 6 different times so it can't be ignored.

There is only one future coming of Jesus Christ, that which the Church commonly calls the "second coming". All Christ's saints are resurrected at the same time at the second coming.

Remember these words above: "But each one in his own order" ---- therefore not all at exactly the same time, but in their own order between His coming and the start of the millenium.

[Ping-Pong]

It is almost "eerie"...their "good guys" are the Biblical "bad guys" and vice-versa

Thank you Invoman, I'll spend some time with it.

It really isn't so eerie when we know who their god is.

[invoman]

More on horses?

Over the past week or so I've been delving into Joel.

I find these verses in Joel to be interesting:

Joel 2:3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. 4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. 5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

This particular passage (called the day of the Lord)? It sounds a lot like a "description" of weapons that the prophet Joel didn't quite understand, yet he described them with words such as "as" and "like". I'm not sure if this is helpful for the previous discussion or not helpful.

[Alamo-Girl]

Just a thought re-reading the bible might not be a bad idea..

Always a great idea, no matter what!

Christ tells us in Matthew 24 and 25 to watch. And I do.

Maranatha, Jesus!

[Alamo-Girl]

You do realize that most Freepers are not preterists or partial preterists, don't you?

Survey of Freeper opinions on How it all Ends

[hosepipe]

[.. Survey of Freeper opinions on How it all Ends ..]

That survey shows how it all ends is on the minds of many freepers even those not "into" God.. Major changes seem to be on the way.. many "sense it".. I think.. My spirit is electric with the sensation..

[Alamo-Girl]

Ditto, dear brother in Christ!

Maranatha, Jesus!

[Ping-Pong]

This particular passage (called the day of the Lord)? It sounds a lot like a "description" of weapons that the prophet Joel didn't quite understand, yet he described them with words such as "as" and "like". I'm not sure if this is helpful for the previous discussion or not helpful.

Hopefully, the more we read on it the more understanding it will bring. Thank you for that passage.

I came across another one and wanted to relay it to the three of you:

Isaiah 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to My holy mountain Jerusalem, "saith the Lord, "as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord.

A side note in my Bible says: "Swift beasts is Heb. kirkdroth, from kdrar to move in a circle; hence may mean (like English car)any vehicle on wheels. It is never used of animals."

It is interesting that these verses we have discussed all have to do with the end of days.

[Uncle Chip]

Isaiah 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to My holy mountain Jerusalem, "saith the Lord,

Horses ---- horses ---- and more horses on their way to Jerusalem.

So now we have Joel, and Isaiah, along with John and Zechariah telling us that there will be a lot of horses around Jerusalem in the end of days.