Posted on 11/01/2007 9:24:08 PM PDT by Quix
END TIMES PROPHETIC SCRIPTURES OF ISAIAH.—CHARISMATIC, PENTECOSTAL, DISPENSATIONALIST CAUCUS THREAD.
This is posted for hopefully a mutually beneficial iron sharpening iron dialogue, discussion amongst the above interest groups. We must avoid throwing rocks at others to protect the decorum and rights of a caucus thread. We must police ourselves on that score first and foremost. I will ask for any post crossing that line to be removed promptly. Please spare us the hassle.
Lurkers are certainly welcome to ask questions in the thread or VIA FREEPMAIL. Keeping in mind the rules of a caucus thread, please feel free to ask.
The Isaiah Scriptures posted hereon and to follow are gleaned from the late John F Walvoord’s EVERY PROPHECY OF THE BIBLE. Those pages covering Isaiah are 99-120.
I’m choosing to post as well the verses in THE MESSAGE (MSG) version as well as THE AMPLIFIED VERSION (AMP). I choose THE MESSAGE because I believe it captures the original language’s forcefulness, idiom, down-to-earth-ness in plain common man language the best. And, the Amplified because it offers up the most plausible options when there’s more than one in a verse. I realize others would choose other versions for a variety of reasons. They are certainly welcome to do so, on their own thread! LOL . . . or on this one on their own posts!
With that, let the mutual edification begin.
I’ll likely begin my commentary later as I’m fading faster and faster tonight.
The Message (MSG)
Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
1-5 The Message Isaiah got regarding Judah and Jerusalem: There's a day coming when the mountain of God's House
Will be The Mountain—
solid, towering over all mountains.
All nations will river toward it,
people from all over set out for it.
They'll say, "Come,
let's climb God's Mountain,
go to the House of the God of Jacob.
He'll show us the way he works
so we can live the way we're made."
Zion's the source of the revelation.
God's Message comes from Jerusalem.
He'll settle things fairly between nations.
He'll make things right between many peoples.
They'll turn their swords into shovels,
their spears into hoes.
No more will nation fight nation;
they won't play war anymore.
Come, family of Jacob,
let's live in the light of God.
6-9God, you've walked out on your family Jacob
because their world is full of hokey religion,
Philistine witchcraft, and pagan hocus-pocus,
a world rolling in wealth,
Stuffed with things,
no end to its machines and gadgets,
And gods—gods of all sorts and sizes.
These people make their own gods and worship what they make.
A degenerate race, facedown in the gutter.
Don't bother with them! They're not worth forgiving!
10Head for the hills,
hide in the caves
From the terror of God,
from his dazzling presence.
11-17People with a big head are headed for a fall,
pretentious egos brought down a peg.
It's God alone at front-and-center
on the Day we're talking about,
The Day that God-of-the-Angel-Armies
is matched against all big-talking rivals,
against all swaggering big names;
Against all giant sequoias
hugely towering,
and against the expansive chestnut;
Against Kilimanjaro and Annapurna,
against the ranges of Alps and Andes;
Against every soaring skyscraper,
against all proud obelisks and statues;
Against ocean-going luxury liners,
against elegant three-masted schooners.
The swelled big heads will be punctured bladders,
the pretentious egos brought down to earth,
Leaving God alone at front-and-center
on the Day we're talking about.
18And all those sticks and stones
dressed up to look like gods
will be gone for good.
19Clamber into caves in the cliffs,
duck into any hole you can find.
Hide from the terror of God,
from his dazzling presence,
When he assumes his full stature on earth,
towering and terrifying.
20-21On that Day men and women will take
the sticks and stones
They've decked out in gold and silver
to look like gods and then worshiped,
And they will dump them
in any ditch or gully,
Then run for rock caves
and cliff hideouts
To hide from the terror of God,
from his dazzling presence,
When he assumes his full stature on earth,
towering and terrifying.
22Quit scraping and fawning over mere humans,
so full of themselves, so full of hot air!
Can't you see there's nothing to them?
AMPLIFIED:
1THE WORD which Isaiah son of Amoz saw [revealed] concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be [firmly] established as the highest of the mountains and shall be exalted above the hills, and all nations shall flow to it.
3And many people shall come and say, Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, that He may teach us His ways and that we may walk in His paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law and instruction, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4And He shall judge between the nations and shall decide [disputes] for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.(A)
5O house of Jacob, come, let us walk in the light of the Lord.
6Surely [Lord] You have rejected and forsaken your people, the house of Jacob, because they are filled [with customs] from the east and with soothsayers [who foretell] like the Philistines; also they strike hands and make pledges and agreements with the children of aliens.(B)
7Their land also is full of silver and gold; neither is there any end to their treasures. Their land is also full of horses; neither is there any end to their chariots.(C)
8Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, what their own fingers have made.
9And the common man is bowed down [before idols], also the great man is brought low and humbles himself--therefore forgive them not [O Lord].
10Enter into the rock and hide yourself in the dust from before the terror of the Lord and from the glory of His majesty.
11The proud looks of man shall be brought low, and the haughtiness of men shall be humbled; and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.
12For there shall be a day of the Lord of hosts against all who are proud and haughty and against all who are lifted up--and they shall be brought low--(D)
13[The wrath of God will begin by coming down] against all the cedars of Lebanon [west of the Jordan] that are high and lifted up, and against all the oaks of Bashan [east of the Jordan],
14And [after that] against all the high mountains and all the hills that are lifted up,
15And against every high tower and every fenced wall,
16And against all the ships of Tarshish and all the picturesque and desirable imagery [designed for mere ornament and luxury].
17Then the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be brought low; and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.
18And the idols shall utterly pass away (be abolished).
19Then shall [the stricken, deprived of all in which they had trusted] go into the caves of the rocks and into the holes of the earth from before the terror and dread of the Lord and from before the glory of His majesty, when He arises to shake mightily and terribly the earth.(E)
20In that day men shall cast away to the moles and to the bats their idols of silver and their idols of gold, which they made for themselves to worship,
21To go into the caverns of the rocks and into the clefts of the ragged rocks from before the terror and dread of the Lord and from before the glory of His majesty, when He rises to shake mightily and terribly the earth.
22Cease to trust in [weak, frail, and dying] man, whose breath is in his nostrils [for so short a time]; in what sense can he be counted as having intrinsic worth?
MSG: There's a day coming when the mountain of God's House
Will be The Mountain—solid, towering over all mountains.
Clearly this is to be AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION. I assume it is to be during the Millenium. I suppose it is conceivable that it might be after satan is bound up for good at the end of the Millenium.
In any case, it is a clear Scriptural assertion that Jerusalem, God’s Dwelling Place (in some sense) and The Mountain of God shall be the highest mountain on the planet. No other mountain will dare begin to rival it.
Sounds like some awesome geographic rearrangements at a minimum!
MSG: All nations will river toward it,
people from all over set out for it.
This, too, is a familiar Scriptural assertion of that future era. Tribute is to be brought to Jerusalem. Countries without worshipful tribute bearing delegations to Jerusalem will suffer lack of rain etc. These issues are all very tangible, daily life aspects with somewhat familiar priorities, themes, practices.
MSG: They'll say, "Come,
let's climb God's Mountain,
go to the House of the God of Jacob.
He'll show us the way he works
so we can live the way we're made."
This is a precious hope; a precious dream . . . to live as we were made to live.
Praise God for that day those IN CHRIST shall see.
| THE MESSAGE VERSION | AMPLIFIED | NEW LIVING TRANSLATION |
| 1-5 The Message Isaiah got regarding Judah and Jerusalem: There's a day coming when the mountain of God's House Will be The Mountain— solid, towering over all mountains. All nations will river toward it, people from all over set out for it. They'll say, "Come, let's climb God's Mountain, go to the House of the God of Jacob. He'll show us the way he works so we can live the way we're made." Zion's the source of the revelation. God's Message comes from Jerusalem. He'll settle things fairly Come, family of Jacob, |
3And many people shall come and say, Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, that He may teach us His ways and that we may walk in His paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law and instruction, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. 4And He shall judge 5O house of Jacob, |
3 People from many nations 4 The Lord will mediate between nations A Warning of Judgment |
Feel free to delete posts 20-27 if and when convenient.
| THE MESSAGE VERSION | AMPLIFIED | NEW LIVING TRANSLATION |
| 1-5 The Message Isaiah got regarding Judah and Jerusalem: There's a day coming when the mountain of God's House Will be The Mountain— solid, towering over all mountains. All nations will river toward it, people from all over set out for it. They'll say, "Come, let's climb God's Mountain, go to the House of the God of Jacob. He'll show us the way he works so we can live the way we're made." Zion's the source of the revelation. God's Message comes from Jerusalem. He'll settle things fairly Come, family of Jacob, |
3And many people shall come and say, Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, that He may teach us His ways and that we may walk in His paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law and instruction, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. 4And He shall judge 5O house of Jacob, |
Quix Commentary 1. People from MANY nations. 2. Let us go UP TO ALL other mountains have been Clearly, Almighty God is making a THE MOUNTAIN OF THE LORD; 3. To the house of --the global community’s? THE HOUSE OF JACOB’S GOD! Why such an emphasis? Evidently God still has a fondness for JACOB’S GOD. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob’s GOD! 4. AND THERE BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD! His laws will be inscribed on our hearts! YEA! 5. And we WILL WALK IN HIS PATHS! 6. For The Lord’s teaching will go out from where? --not from New York! 7. HIS WORD WILL GO OUT FROM JERUSALEM! David’s city! Somehow, of all creation . . . the crucial address will be JERUSALEM! JERUSALEM! JERUSALEM! 8. THE LORD will MEDIATE BETWEEN NATIONS. --NOT the globalists, socialists, communists who’ve been wiped BUT THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY! YEA GOD! 9. AND WILL SETTLE INTERNATIONAL DISPUTES. Interesting. YET THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS WILL No quibbling. No argument. No end runs around agreements. 10. HAMMER SWORDS INTO PLOWSHARES! WHAT A LONGED FOR DAY THAT WILL BE! PEACE, PEACE, TRUE PEACE, AT LAST No fighting between nations at all. 11. COME DESCENDANTS OF JACOB Knock off the rebellion and waywardness. LET US WALK IN THE LIGHT OF THE LORD!
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Thank you oh so very much for that inspiring sermon and especially for those Scriptures!
| THE MESSAGE VERSION | AMPLIFIED | QUIX’s COMMENTARY | |
| The abuse of oppressors and cruelty of tyrants— all their whips and cudgels and curses— Is gone, done away with, a deliverance as surprising and sudden as Gideon's old victory over Midian. | 4For the yoke of [Israel's] burden, and the staff or rod for [goading] their shoulders, the rod of their oppressor, You have broken as in the day of [Gideon with] Midian.(B) | The abuse of the oppressors. The yoke of ISRAEL’S BURDEN. This is a pretty clear focus. Israel has sinned and been disciplined. But now the discipline is to be lifted. At that future point, the discipline Will have been lifted—as surprisingly And suddenly as Gideon’s victory of old. Sounds clearly like yet another emphatic He persistently seems to love |
|
| The boots of all those invading troops, along with their shirts soaked with innocent blood, Will be piled in a heap and burned, a fire that will burn for days! |
5For every [tramping] warrior's war boots and all his armor in the battle tumult and every garment rolled in blood shall be burned as fuel for the fire. |
The boots of invading troops . . . Shirts soaked in innocent blood . . . Quite a picture of the aftermath Not per se those who oppressed |
|
| For a child has been born—for us! the gift of a son—for us! |
6For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; |
Ahhhh, THE CHILD is born. The Messiah. A child FOR US. Sure, fine, for the whole world. But this is THE LONG PROMISED ONE. OUR VERY JEWISH MESSIAH. OUR ANOINTED ONE. BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD. |
|
| He'll take over the running of the world. |
and the government shall be upon His shoulder |
HE WILL take over the running Of the world. Not as an idle Board member or Not just the Jewish World. |
|
| His names will be: Amazing Counselor, Strong God, Eternal Father, Prince of Wholeness. |
and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father [of Eternity], Prince of Peace.(C) |
No equivocating bureaucrat here. Counselor. Strong God. Father. Ahhhhhhh, Daddy, sooooo many Need YOUR WHOLENESS. Bind up the brokenhearted, For Good, Daddy. Forever, Daddy. |
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| His ruling authority will grow, and there'll be no limits to the wholeness he brings. |
7Of the increase of His government and of peace there shall be no end, |
His AUTHORITY will grow and Encompass all. There will be NO Limit, boundary, lack, insufficiency To the PEACE AND WHOLENESS HE BRINGS to all creation, Plagued since the fall. RESTORATION AND ADVANCEMENT --HIS WHOLENESS— THE ORDER OF THE DAY, EVERY DAY. |
|
| He'll rule from the historic David throne over that promised kingdom. He'll put that kingdom on a firm footing and keep it going With fair dealing and right living, beginning now and lasting always. |
upon the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from the [latter] time forth, even forevermore. |
GOD OF THE ANGEL ARMIES seems to Love to tie up loose ends and To finish WHAT HE STARTED. He’s not interested in a I don’t think it’s put the way In any case, HE WILL RULE It is also true that such rule But this verse alone makes very And not just any even average |
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| The zeal of God-of-the-Angel-Armies will do all this. |
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.(D) |
The ZEAL of the GOD OF THE ANGEL ARMIES WILL PERFORM IT. It’s not an idle hobby. It’s not an optional When He gets around to it. HIS ZEAL WILL PERFORM IT AND THAT PERFECTLY. |
Maranatha, Jesus!!!
Why do you quote from the Message and the Amplified???
I believe that Peterson captures the idiom; the vernacular; the tone; the character; the spirit of the original in modern language better than any other I know of. It has brought me closer to God a number of times. It has made Scripture be more alive and God-breathed to me many times.
I like the Amplified for giving the plausible additional, robustness of meanings verse by verse.
Still trying to figure out the column width things better though! obviously.
I like your new posting style — it is more readable
Here for example is how he translates Luke 4:4:
"4Jesus answered by quoting Deuteronomy: "It takes more than bread to really live."
The most important part of that verse he left out.
Thanks, thanks.
But I have the KJV internalized and mostly greatly memorized.
And, have read the NIV a lot as well as others. I still find THE MESSAGE an abiding blessing.
What versions do you prefer and why?
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