Posted on 11/01/2007 9:24:08 PM PDT by Quix
END TIMES PROPHETIC SCRIPTURES OF ISAIAH.—CHARISMATIC, PENTECOSTAL, DISPENSATIONALIST CAUCUS THREAD.
This is posted for hopefully a mutually beneficial iron sharpening iron dialogue, discussion amongst the above interest groups. We must avoid throwing rocks at others to protect the decorum and rights of a caucus thread. We must police ourselves on that score first and foremost. I will ask for any post crossing that line to be removed promptly. Please spare us the hassle.
Lurkers are certainly welcome to ask questions in the thread or VIA FREEPMAIL. Keeping in mind the rules of a caucus thread, please feel free to ask.
The Isaiah Scriptures posted hereon and to follow are gleaned from the late John F Walvoord’s EVERY PROPHECY OF THE BIBLE. Those pages covering Isaiah are 99-120.
I’m choosing to post as well the verses in THE MESSAGE (MSG) version as well as THE AMPLIFIED VERSION (AMP). I choose THE MESSAGE because I believe it captures the original language’s forcefulness, idiom, down-to-earth-ness in plain common man language the best. And, the Amplified because it offers up the most plausible options when there’s more than one in a verse. I realize others would choose other versions for a variety of reasons. They are certainly welcome to do so, on their own thread! LOL . . . or on this one on their own posts!
With that, let the mutual edification begin.
I’ll likely begin my commentary later as I’m fading faster and faster tonight.
The Message (MSG)
Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
1-5 The Message Isaiah got regarding Judah and Jerusalem: There's a day coming when the mountain of God's House
Will be The Mountain—
solid, towering over all mountains.
All nations will river toward it,
people from all over set out for it.
They'll say, "Come,
let's climb God's Mountain,
go to the House of the God of Jacob.
He'll show us the way he works
so we can live the way we're made."
Zion's the source of the revelation.
God's Message comes from Jerusalem.
He'll settle things fairly between nations.
He'll make things right between many peoples.
They'll turn their swords into shovels,
their spears into hoes.
No more will nation fight nation;
they won't play war anymore.
Come, family of Jacob,
let's live in the light of God.
6-9God, you've walked out on your family Jacob
because their world is full of hokey religion,
Philistine witchcraft, and pagan hocus-pocus,
a world rolling in wealth,
Stuffed with things,
no end to its machines and gadgets,
And gods—gods of all sorts and sizes.
These people make their own gods and worship what they make.
A degenerate race, facedown in the gutter.
Don't bother with them! They're not worth forgiving!
10Head for the hills,
hide in the caves
From the terror of God,
from his dazzling presence.
11-17People with a big head are headed for a fall,
pretentious egos brought down a peg.
It's God alone at front-and-center
on the Day we're talking about,
The Day that God-of-the-Angel-Armies
is matched against all big-talking rivals,
against all swaggering big names;
Against all giant sequoias
hugely towering,
and against the expansive chestnut;
Against Kilimanjaro and Annapurna,
against the ranges of Alps and Andes;
Against every soaring skyscraper,
against all proud obelisks and statues;
Against ocean-going luxury liners,
against elegant three-masted schooners.
The swelled big heads will be punctured bladders,
the pretentious egos brought down to earth,
Leaving God alone at front-and-center
on the Day we're talking about.
18And all those sticks and stones
dressed up to look like gods
will be gone for good.
19Clamber into caves in the cliffs,
duck into any hole you can find.
Hide from the terror of God,
from his dazzling presence,
When he assumes his full stature on earth,
towering and terrifying.
20-21On that Day men and women will take
the sticks and stones
They've decked out in gold and silver
to look like gods and then worshiped,
And they will dump them
in any ditch or gully,
Then run for rock caves
and cliff hideouts
To hide from the terror of God,
from his dazzling presence,
When he assumes his full stature on earth,
towering and terrifying.
22Quit scraping and fawning over mere humans,
so full of themselves, so full of hot air!
Can't you see there's nothing to them?
AMPLIFIED:
1THE WORD which Isaiah son of Amoz saw [revealed] concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be [firmly] established as the highest of the mountains and shall be exalted above the hills, and all nations shall flow to it.
3And many people shall come and say, Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, that He may teach us His ways and that we may walk in His paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law and instruction, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4And He shall judge between the nations and shall decide [disputes] for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.(A)
5O house of Jacob, come, let us walk in the light of the Lord.
6Surely [Lord] You have rejected and forsaken your people, the house of Jacob, because they are filled [with customs] from the east and with soothsayers [who foretell] like the Philistines; also they strike hands and make pledges and agreements with the children of aliens.(B)
7Their land also is full of silver and gold; neither is there any end to their treasures. Their land is also full of horses; neither is there any end to their chariots.(C)
8Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, what their own fingers have made.
9And the common man is bowed down [before idols], also the great man is brought low and humbles himself--therefore forgive them not [O Lord].
10Enter into the rock and hide yourself in the dust from before the terror of the Lord and from the glory of His majesty.
11The proud looks of man shall be brought low, and the haughtiness of men shall be humbled; and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.
12For there shall be a day of the Lord of hosts against all who are proud and haughty and against all who are lifted up--and they shall be brought low--(D)
13[The wrath of God will begin by coming down] against all the cedars of Lebanon [west of the Jordan] that are high and lifted up, and against all the oaks of Bashan [east of the Jordan],
14And [after that] against all the high mountains and all the hills that are lifted up,
15And against every high tower and every fenced wall,
16And against all the ships of Tarshish and all the picturesque and desirable imagery [designed for mere ornament and luxury].
17Then the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be brought low; and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.
18And the idols shall utterly pass away (be abolished).
19Then shall [the stricken, deprived of all in which they had trusted] go into the caves of the rocks and into the holes of the earth from before the terror and dread of the Lord and from before the glory of His majesty, when He arises to shake mightily and terribly the earth.(E)
20In that day men shall cast away to the moles and to the bats their idols of silver and their idols of gold, which they made for themselves to worship,
21To go into the caverns of the rocks and into the clefts of the ragged rocks from before the terror and dread of the Lord and from before the glory of His majesty, when He rises to shake mightily and terribly the earth.
22Cease to trust in [weak, frail, and dying] man, whose breath is in his nostrils [for so short a time]; in what sense can he be counted as having intrinsic worth?
MSG: There's a day coming when the mountain of God's House
Will be The Mountain—solid, towering over all mountains.
Clearly this is to be AFTER the GREAT TRIBULATION. I assume it is to be during the Millenium. I suppose it is conceivable that it might be after satan is bound up for good at the end of the Millenium.
In any case, it is a clear Scriptural assertion that Jerusalem, God’s Dwelling Place (in some sense) and The Mountain of God shall be the highest mountain on the planet. No other mountain will dare begin to rival it.
Sounds like some awesome geographic rearrangements at a minimum!
MSG: All nations will river toward it,
people from all over set out for it.
This, too, is a familiar Scriptural assertion of that future era. Tribute is to be brought to Jerusalem. Countries without worshipful tribute bearing delegations to Jerusalem will suffer lack of rain etc. These issues are all very tangible, daily life aspects with somewhat familiar priorities, themes, practices.
MSG: They'll say, "Come,
let's climb God's Mountain,
go to the House of the God of Jacob.
He'll show us the way he works
so we can live the way we're made."
This is a precious hope; a precious dream . . . to live as we were made to live.
Praise God for that day those IN CHRIST shall see.
I think the Amplified provides a balance to that aspect of THE MESSAGE.
gentile believers...hence christians...you see there are distinctions...to say all gentiles are grafted in would say that all gentiles are saved....the tree represents Gods chosen people....the graft represents the church....only those saved through grace are going to be grafted in.....hence it is save to say only christians will be grafted in.
im sorry but if your going to study biblical prophecy your going to need a real bible..not someones opinion on the matter....word for word translation would then obviously be the best thing and what other than the NASB or MKJV offers that?
You may be mixing threads up.
This is a caucus thread . . . not for contentious postings etc.
I respect your opinion.
And do not wish to make this caucus thread contentious about translations.
There are at least as many opinions about translations as there are translations.
There are threads about such.
I believe each translation is BOTH translation AND paraphrase. It’s impossible to translate without paraphrasing.
I believe each quality effort offers nuances others have missed here and there.
The best translations are still OPINIONS on the matter. I don’t find COMMITTEES opinions necessarily more accurate, faithful to the original or anointed.
Perhaps you’d like to start a prophecy thread using your preferred translations.
And, I think it would be perfectly fine to offer verses from those translations
in a collaborative, mutually supportive exploring together dialogue hereon.
I always want to know what the original Author meant, not what the translator would like you to think he meant. The translator is supposed to remain faithful to the author's text, but so many translations today add to and take away from the text, like Luke 4:4.
I prefer a version that is as close as possible to the Traditional Greek and Hebrew Texts underlying the KJV and thus prefer the KJV.
Certainly don’t want a KJV only/bashing thread here.
KJV has translation problems, too. We don’t have the originals. All translations are flawed. All bring something to the table.
It’s not translations that lead us into all truth
. . . HOLY SPIRIT does that.
ping
Then why is there scripture at all??? And how would you be able to say that unless you read it in the scripture???
The scripture is a product of the Holy Spirit, and thus through scripture the Holy Spirit leads us to all truth.
Darth Vader said he would start a thread on this when he returns --
Thanks for the ping!
Of course.
and
DarthVader’s thread would be more fitting.
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