The Good Friday-Easter Sunday Question

When did I ever say that the Abrahamic covenant and the Mosaic covenant were the same??
You didn't say it in so many words, but you brought up Abraham, saying that the sabbath existed AND was kept BEFORE the old covenant existed...before the ten commandments were given. To admit that the two covenants were different destroys your position because the Sabbath was the sign of the Old Covenant, not the Covenant with Abraham, and its sign was different. Abraham was NOT given the sign of the Mosaic Covenant. The Mosaic Covenant, the Ten Commandments on Tablets of Stone were the legal document on Tablets of Stone which came 430 years after Abraham.

That's certainly an interesting theory you had to concoct to prove something that I never said. :-)

Elevating the shadow of the old daily, weekly, monthly and yearly types over the substance of Christ is just as wrongheaded as those people bowing down in front of a statue, and so is clinging to a long dead spouse as if the spouse were still alive.

Folks.....this admonishment against idolatry did not end at the resurrection.

We have the same moral principle enjoined in the New Testament command under the law of Christ:

1 Cor. 10:14 - "...flee from idolatry."
1 John 5:21 - "Keep yourself from idols"

After 1787 it didn't matter how many American laws were new or similar to British laws, the laws of Britain could never be appealed to as the final authority on any matter whatsoever (unless maybe you're Arlen Specter or Justice Breyer). America came under the authority of a new document or covenant. In a similar manner The Tablets of Stone given to Israel can be compared to the New Covenant given to the Church. Everything that established and governed Israel as a theocracy is no longer in effect over the Church. To continue to insist otherwise demonstrates about the same level of sanity as that of a Tory insisting in an American courtroom after 1787 that the laws of England still supersede the Constitution, and are still binding on Americans.

Nor did the Sabbath and Feast Day observances.

There are probably around a thousand commands in the New Testament, and yet you will not once find the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly observances ever commanded in the New Covenant under the law of Christ, which would be very odd if what you were insisting is true were actually true. You will never find the Sabbath commanded for Christian observance in the New Testament for the simple reason that the Sabbath was THE sign of the Old Covenant, incorporated into the Covenant document, the Ten Commandments, and we are no longer under the jurisdiction of that Covenant document. It was abolished and superseded by the New Covenant. You cannot undo the New Covenant that Christ ratified by his blood.

You need to Shepardize your theology. It is about 2000 years behind the peerless precedent of the cross of Christ, where he ratified His New Covenant by his blood.

Cordially,

That's certainly an interesting theory you had to concoct to prove something that I never said. :-)

It's called Reductio ad absurdum.

as applied to your statements about Abraham and your statements about the Ten Commandments. Here:

But of Abraham:
Gen 26:4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed;
Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."
God's law, commandments and statutes existed BEFORE, long before, the old covenant was instituted. It's not unreasonable to believe that his sabbath was known and taught to his servants.

And here:

See Did the Ten Commandments Exist Before Moses? (#1083)

Correct me if I am wrong; have you not really been saying all along that Abraham kept the Ten Commandments?

Cordially,

You will never find the Sabbath commanded for Christian observance in the New Testament for the simple reason that the Sabbath was THE sign of the Old Covenant, incorporated into the Covenant document, the Ten Commandments, and we are no longer under the jurisdiction of that Covenant document. It was abolished and superseded by the New Covenant. You cannot undo the New Covenant that Christ ratified by his blood.

Then.....please explain this: [1 John 2:3-7] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

Is John not including the fourth commandment here?

Here is the bible definition of Sin. [1 John 3:4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

But you say....this law was done away with. How do you square that? Are we all now sinless because there is no longer a law?

[1 John 5:2-3] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Again.....does John differentiate....does he exclude the fourth commandment? Or.....is John speaking of something else? If that is the case.....would you explain to me what it is that John refers to?

John, Peter, Paul and all the Apostles continued celebrating God's Sabbaths and Feast days. You cannot show one instance in the New Testament where the Sabbath or the Annual Feast Days were done away. On the other hand, I have just given you scriptural references showing John's support and encouragement for us to continue obeying the commandments. I can also give you scriptures showing observances of the Feast Days.

Who are you kidding?

You will never find the Sabbath commanded for Christian observance in the New Testament.......

How about........?: [Luke 23:56] And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

These women and the Apostles had all spent over three years listening everyday to Our Lord expounding on all matters of this world....and the next. Do you not think He might have mentioned to them....something as important as the abolition of the Ten Commandments....after His sacrifice. He told them continually what was going to happen. Don't you think He might have just thought they ought to know the commandments and the law would then be abolished.

Of course not. This new theology was left to Satan and the devices of man made councils, synods and creeds.

Is John not including the fourth commandment here?

Did you not read my answer to this in 1,116?

But you say....this law was done away with. How do you square that? Are we all now sinless because there is no longer a law?

Paul said it was done away with, not just me. It's hard for me to believe after all these posts that you still do not understand what is being stated. We are under the law of Christ now, not the law of Moses. The Tablets of Stone as a Covenant document have been done away with.

Again.....does John differentiate....does he exclude the fourth commandment? Or.....is John speaking of something else? If that is the case.....would you explain to me what it is that John refers to?

I have explained this numerous times already. Read #1,116. I asked you critical questions concerning the historical beginning and ending of the law of the Old Covenant that you have not answered. I also asked you, does God have any other commandments besides the Ten? You did not answer it. I asked you, where is the word, 'ten' in these passages from John? You did not answer the question. In the post to which you are replying here I told you that there are probably around a thousand commands in the New Testament. What about that do you not understand that you ask me here what it is that John refers to?

John, Peter, Paul and all the Apostles continued celebrating God's Sabbaths and Feast days.

Prove it. I have read this entire thread, and you have been refuted on every New Testament passage that you have put forward to support that assertion.

You cannot show one instance in the New Testament where the Sabbath or the Annual Feast Days were done away.

I gave you a list of Scriptures in 1,116 that incontrovertibly prove that fact. I add to that list the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly observances of Colossians 2:14-17, and the Scriptural statement about the termination of the Old Covenant law in Romans 1:1-7.

On the other hand, I have just given you scriptural references showing John's support and encouragement for us to continue obeying the commandments.

The commandments of the New Covenant, certainly, and just as certainly, NOT those as under the Old Covenant.

I can also give you scriptures showing observances of the Feast Days.

Who are you kidding?

No one. And no you can't. They aren't there.

How about........?: [Luke 23:56] And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

These women and the Apostles had all spent over three years listening everyday to Our Lord expounding on all matters of this world....and the next. Do you not think He might have mentioned to them....something as important as the abolition of the Ten Commandments....after His sacrifice. He told them continually what was going to happen. Don't you think He might have just thought they ought to know the commandments and the law would then be abolished.

That is pathetic. The woman were Jews, as was Jesus, who lived UNDER THE LAW of the Old Covenant prior to the inauguration of the Church at Pentecost. And the Apostolic writings I have referred to state the very thing you deny. I also answered this type of objection in #1,116:

Jesus was born under and lived under the law so that he could fulfill it. Otherwise he could not have been the Messiah. If we must follow the example of Jesus in all things like keeping the Sabbath, then do you follow the example of Jesus in keeping circumcision?

Why don't you answer that, for starters?

And why do you try to build up the wall of partition between Jew and Gentile that Christ tore down?

Cordially,

The real question is, why do you want to continue live under the Sign of the Old Covenant written on the Tablets of Stone, like a woman who continues to wear the wedding ring of her deceased husband at the same time she wears the wedding ring of her new husband? It's creepy.

The Law that God instituted forever, among His people.....to you is creepy? [1 John 3:4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Is this Law abolished? What Law is this? Why is John still speaking of observing God's Law if it's so creepy?

Don't you understand that the Law which was abolished was the sacrificial Law [Hebrews 7:11-14] .....and not the Ten Commandments? Paul is telling us about that while John is telling us to obey the commandments [1 John 5:1-3]. Don't you really see the difference?

[Galatians 3:19-25] 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The above was your first claim that the law was done away with. Please allow me to show you your error:

You must recall Paul's position on the Law. It did not cause us to be righteous but was set up as a guidepost..... to show us the way. It allowed God to let us know what He expected of us. Paul addresses this very point in verse 21. Moses was the mediator spoken of in verse 19 who stood between the people of Israel and God.

The covenant between God and Abraham had no mediator ...they spoke face to face and Paul reemphasizes the status of Abraham's covenant over that of the Children of Israel made at Mount Sinai.

Paul, at this point realizes some may take his words to mean the law is not required any more (verse 21)....and immediately corrects that assumption. He makes the point that God's Law is in no way contrary to God's promises to Abraham. He equates life with righteousness....and death with unrighteousness. And he also states that if it were possible for any law to give life, then the Law of Moses would have been that Law....but it could not be..... as that was not the function of the law.

Why do you suppose the Law could not provide life?

Because human beings were flawed....not because the Law was flawed. [Romans 8:3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.

Paul understood that the Law was provided as a guidepost for rules of conduct. It also provided penalties for disobedience! Mankind's nature was sinful and the Law was not a means to obtain righteousness. Paul, therefore tells us that we all have broken the law and have all incurred the death penalty. We were captive to the Law. The Law was our guardian until Christ came so we could be justified by faith. We are no longer under a guardianship and verse 26 tells us that we are now all considered Sons of God through faith.

Many, here....have misunderstood what Paul has said about guardianship. The Greek word, PAIDAGOGOS does not mean "teacher....or schoolmaster" as some translations show it to be. Here is the Greek definition of "PAIDAGOGOS" Orig[inally] 'boy-leader', the man, usu[ally] a slave (Plut., Mor. 4ab), whose duty it was to conduct a boy or youth (Plut., Mor. 439f) to and from school and to superintend his conduct gener[ally]; he was not a 'teacher' . . . When the young man became of age, the [paidagogos] was no longer needed.

Paul is not referring to the Law as a teacher. He refers to the judgment function of the Law and the context shows that the Law functioned as a guardian for those convicted of sin and all have sinned......so this included all of humanity. When Our Savior died and provided the sacrifice of himself, eliminating once and for all the need for a Levitical Priesthood....we were then no longer subject to the guardianship of the Law and no longer under its penalty for disobedience. This did not mean that God's Law and its standard code of conduct for the human race had been eliminated. This is why John keeps insisting that we heed and observe God's commandments. The fourth one was to remember the Sabbath.

I'll try to get to your other scriptures later on. I had an extremely busy week end..... and week so far with multiple grandchildren tugging at me from all directions and quite honestly did not discover your unanswered post until you pointed it out.

Matthew 5:18 3. 2 Cor. 3:7-11 Hebrews 8:13; Jer 31:31, 32 Galatians 4:21-31 Romans 5: 13, 20 John 1:17 Ephesians 2:15

These are the rest of your scriptures provided to show me the abolishing of the Sabbath and the Feast Days. We'll take them one by one...as time permits.

[Matthew 5:18] KJV For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled (come to pass).

The Hebrew "Jot" is the smallest letter in the language and is recorded in the Hebrew texts over 66,000 times. It's called a "Yod" and in the Greek it is "IOTA", The "Tittle" is like the "Yod" in that it is not pronounced....it only signifies the usage of the word it accompanies. Our Lord told us that everything will stay in place until all has been fulfilled (come to pass). All what?

Prophecy! Many prophecies have been indeed fulfilled (come to pass), many by Our Lord Himself. Many have yet not....but will be fulfilled (come to pass) before the end.

An example of part of the Law that is still in force is the dietary restrictions. God has set in place restrictions on what we should....and should not consume. This is not so much mankind committing a horrible, eternally punishable sin but by consuming certain foods we are not enjoying a long healthful life that perhaps we could.....if God's food laws were obeyed. While in the flesh we must eat, and what we eat has a bearing on how we feel, how we age and what disease we may or may not avoid in the process. When all has been fulfilled (come to pass).....I'm not sure we'll be eating anything, but......until then......

Now....let's look at the entire passage: [Mathew 5:17-20] 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The KJV is a little clumsy here as the word fulfilled in verse 18 (#1096 GENHTAI) is not the same word as fulfill (in verse 17 (# 4137 PLHRWSAI). The word in verse 18 means "come to pass"....."happen". The word in verse 17 would be more in line with what we would call "Fill it up".

So.....does Our Lord perhaps think folks may misinterpret what He might be saying here? Is this why He goes on to emphasizes the adherence to the commandments and the teaching thereof in verse 19? What do you believe that people might think that He did not want them to think?

The KJV says that Our Lord says "I am not come to destroy but fulfill" then.....does an about face and says "not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Well....if He fulfilled it....then it could pass away....all or part of it! We actually have two conditions here for the law to pass away.....don't we.

Till Heaven and Earth pass away not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law. Our Lord has just said here that the law is as permanent as the Heaven and the Earth. He also says "Do not think that I have come to destroy that law". Does this mean that we must keep all the Old Testament laws? Or is this speaking of a particular law in itself?

[Matthew 12:1-9] 1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. 9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:

It was lawful for the disciples to pick this grain in a stranger's field [Deuteronomy 23:24-25] but the Pharisees were upset because they were doing this on the Sabbath. Our Lord disagreed! The difference was....the disciples were not harvesting....they were picking and there was no law that said you could not eat on the Sabbath. He used the example in [I Samuel 21:1-6]. They had reasoned this out to be an exception and David and his men were allowed to eat.

The Pharisees were very careful not to break any law and in so doing complicated things so much that the law became a burden. Our Lord chastised them in [Mark 7:1-13] for being hypocrites but the law He specifically is dealing with in [Matthew 5:17-20] is the Ten Commandments.

Now....what was the part of the Law that was done away with? It was the part that had nothing to do with the Ten Commandments........the Law of the Levitical Priesthood [Hebrews 7:11-13] with its sacrifices and rituals.

The Ten Commandments were given at Sinai. The Levitical Priesthood was introduced a year later [Exodus 40:17-19]. [Hebrews 9:1-10] 1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; 4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly. 6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. 7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. This First Covenant had nothing to do with the Ten Commandments.

[Jeremiah 31:31-33] 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. This law is the Ten Commandments which are eternal throughout this age.

The Ten Commandments preceded Sinai. They have been in effect since creation. I've seen many times folks prove this by listing these commands from the Book of Genesis alone! I'll show you these commandments from the Book of Job alone!

Job, the most pious "Gentile" (He was a Semite and a Hebrew, but he was not an Israelite) that ever lived, one of the few to bear the title of honor "the servant of God," was of double kin to Jacob. He was a grandson of Jacob's brother Esau, and at the same time the son-in-law of Jacob himself, for he had married Dinah as his second wife. He was entirely worthy of being a member of the Patriarch's family, for he was perfectly upright, one that feared God, and eschewed evil. Had he not wavered in his resignation to the Divine will during the great trial to which he was subjected, and murmured against God, the distinction would have been conferred upon him of having his name joined to the Name of God in prayer, and men would have called upon the God of Job as they now call upon the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But he was not found steadfast like the three Fathers, and he forfeited the honor God had intended for him [History of the Jews; Ginsberg].

Commandment #1 "Blessed be the name of the LORD" [Job 1:21]. "And to man He said, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, and to depart from evil is understanding' " [Job 28:28]. "This also would be an iniquity deserving of judgment, For I would have denied God who is above" [Job 31:28]. "The Job answered the LORD and said: 'I know that You can do everything, and that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You' " [Job 42:1-2].

Commandment 2 "If I have observed the sun when it shines, or the moon moving in its brightness, so that my heart has been secretly enticed, and my mouth has kissed my hand; This also would be an iniquity deserving of judgment, For I would have denied God who is above" [Job 31:27-28].

Commandment 3 "It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts" [Job 1:5]. "Blessed be the name of the LORD" [Job 1:21]. "Curse God and die!" [Job 2:9]. "In all this, Job did not sin with his lips" [Job 2:10].

Commandment 4 "So they sat down with him on the ground seven days and seven nights, and no one spoke a word to him, for they saw that his grief was very great" [Job 2:13]. "Is there not a time of hard service for man on the earth" [Job 7:1]. "That the triumphing of the wicked is short...Because he knows no quietness in his heart" [Job 20:5,20]. "Now acquaint yourself with Him, and be at peace" [Job 22:21]. "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?" [Job 38:4].

Commandment 5 "His sons come to honor" [Job 14:21]. "He who speaks flattery to his friends, even the eyes of his children will fail" [Job 17:5]. "But the mighty man possessed the land, and the honorable man dwelt in it" [Job 22:8].

Commandment 6 "The murderer rises with the light; He kills the poor and needy; And in the night he's like a thief" [Job 24:14]. "If I have eaten its fruit without money, or caused its owners to lose their lives; Then let thistles grow instead of wheat, and weeds instead of barley" [Job 31:39-40].

Commandment 7 "The eye of the adulterer waits for the twilight, saying, 'No eye will see me'; and he disguises his face" [Job 24:15]. "I have made a covenant with my eyes; Why then should I look upon a young woman?" [Job 31:1]. "If my heart has been enticed by a woman, or if I have lurked at my neighbor's door, then let my wife grind for another, and let others bow down over her. For that would be wickedness; Yes, it would be iniquity deserving of judgment. For that would be a fire that consumes to destruction, and would root out all my increase" [Job 31:9-12].

Commandment 8 "Is not your wickedness great, and your iniquity without end? For you have taken pledges from your brother for no reason, and stripped the naked of their clothing" [Job 22:5-6]. "And in the night he's like a thief" [Job 24:14]. "If I have eaten its fruit without money, or caused its owners to lose their lives; Then let thistles grow instead of wheat, and weeds instead of barley" [Job 31:39-40].

Commandment 9 "I would never lie to your face" [Job 6:28]. "They conceive trouble and bring forth futility; Their womb prepares deceit" [Job 15:35]. "Now if it is not so, who will prove me a liar and make my speech worth nothing?" [Job 24:25]. "My lips will not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit" [Job 27:4]. "Should I lie concerning my right?" [Job 34:6]. "For truly my words are not false" [Job 36:4].

Commandment 10 "And envy slays a simple one" [Job 5:2]. "Why does your heart carry you away, and what do your eyes wink at, that you turn your spirit against God, and let such words go out of your mouth?" [Job 15:12-13]. "They conceive trouble and bring forth futility" [Job 15:35]. "I have made a covenant with my eyes; Why then should I look upon a young woman?" [Job 31:1]. "If my heart has been enticed by a woman, or if I have lurked at my neighbor's door, then let my wife grind for another, and let others bow down over her. For that would be wickedness; Yes, it would be iniquity deserving of judgment. For that would be a fire that consumes to destruction, and would root out all my increase" [Job 31:9-12].

Now....tell me that Job was not aware of God's eternal Ten Commandments.....prior to Sinai!

The Sabbath, of course being the fourth commandment, was never done away with. The Feast Days, given at Pentecost, also preceded the Levitical Priesthood Law of animal sacrifice by nine and 1/2 months.....and have never been done away with either. The reason all jots and tittles of the law (Ten Commandments) will stay in place until all things "come to pass" is that there will be no sin when we step into eternity with Our Lord and consequently......no need for any law [1 John 3:4].

The Law that God instituted forever, among His people.....to you is creepy? [1 John 3:4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Is this Law abolished? What Law is this? Why is John still speaking of observing God's Law if it's so creepy?

It is not the law of God that is creepy, it is the acting as if a superceded, obsolete covenant is still in force that is creepy. It is like a person coming into court brandishing a copy of the Articles of Confederation and just assuming that everyone in the court is going to be bound by that law. Once again you reflexively assume that John is referring to the Ten Commandments here, when we already know that we are not under the Old Covenant law anymore, but under the law of Christ.

Don't you understand that the Law which was abolished was the sacrificial Law [Hebrews 7:11-14] .....and not the Ten Commandments? Paul is telling us about that while John is telling us to obey the commandments [1 John 5:1-3]. Don't you really see the difference?

The only place a distinction between the laws on sacrifice and the Ten Commandments exists is in your mind. It does not exist in Scripture. The Scriptural interchangeabilty of the terms that appears in so many places proves beyond cavil that the Old Covenant was a single unit of laws. Some were moral and others were ceremonial, etc., but the "Statutes, Ordinances and Decrees" did not exist as separate codes of law.

[Galatians 3:19-25] 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator [...]

The above was your first claim that the law was done away with. Please allow me to show you your error:

Besides the fact that it's not my claim - it is Paul's infallible claim, in the nine following paragraphs in which you discuss it you never once address the fact that Paul says that the law was added (430 years after Abraham, he says) which makes no sense if the law was already there as you contend. You still have not addressed this point.

Cordially,

Interesting, it is put forth that the dietary “law” are still in effect. Where are the dietary laws written in the 10 commandments? Interesting how the ‘law’ can be so loosely defined in one aspect and rigorously in another.

Interesting how the ‘law’ can be so loosely defined in one aspect and rigorously in another.

I guess sometimes it's the smallest jot or tittle of the law and the prophets, and then again, sometimes it's not.

Who knew?

Cordially,

I've noticed your query and have decided to sidetrack here for an explanation of why the dietary laws are still in effect. You evidently have been erroneously taught that they were done away with. This is a common error with many Protestants as they retain so much of their apostate heritage from the Church of Rome.

Normally one looks to their owner's manual when deciding what type of oil or gasoline to put in their new vehicle. That's why we have an owner's manual to instruct on how to keep our car running at peak efficiency without having to constantly take it to the dealer for service.

When The Lord made mankind He also designed us with certain dietary requirements. David wrote in [Psalms 90:10] that the length of our days would be 70/80 years depending on our strength. In [Genesis 6:3] God said He would restrict our days to 120 years and this was done to prevent some of the types of problems mankind was having prior to the flood.

Some of our lives are very short and it's usually caused by disease and not simply by accident. Our own owner's manual has given us certain types of recommended fuel also which does increase the lifespan our bodies may experience. Eating unclean food does a couple of things: It disregards The Lord's dietary instructions and it defiles our body.

[Leviticus 11] tells us tells us which animal foods are clean and which are not. Basically, any animal that has split hooves and chews the cud is O.K. to eat. The cud and their digestive system regurgitates their food to the point where all toxins and impurities are removed before they fully digest it so their bodies are more pure for human consumption than one that does not chew the cud. Before they fully process their food they methodically chew it and grind it over and over again. Unclean animals simply devour their food and never give it another thought.

Clean sea life are ones with scales and fins. Scales protect the fish's muscles from being polluted by unclean water. Fish without scales have been shown to more easily absorb pollutants from the water.

[Deuteronomy 12:23] tells us to be sure and not eat the blood with the flesh as the life is in the blood. An animal like the Giraffe has split hooves and chews the cud....but it would be very difficult to drain the blood completely because of the long neck.....so each animal would have to be considered individually.

And, of course the flying creatures and insects have their own requirements. There were reasons why The Lord instructed mankind to not partake of certain types of animal flesh. These reasons are still in force today. As far as vegetable matter..... every "Seed" bearing plant we may consume [Genesis 1:29]. In the case of nuts....we are eating the seeds themselves.

The fact that The Lord created "Clean and Unclean" is not debatable. The resurrection did not cause a change in our bodily nutritional requirements and there was not a change in God's dietary law. This false notion was part and parcel of Rome's attempt to distance themselves from anything that could be construed as Jewish after Nicaea. It is not scriptural!

[Hebrews 7:11-13] If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

This was one of the things the Levitical priesthood had nothing to do with......the dietary requirements of [Leviticus 11] & [Deuteronomy 14]. Under the New Covenant the Levitical Priesthood was eliminated......but they still were not involved with "Clean and Unclean" foods to begin with. This was a pronouncement from The Lord Himself. A careful reading of both Chapters will show you that the priesthood had no function here....whatsoever!

The Levitical Requirements for animal sacrifice and offerings were eliminated by the sacrifice of Our Lord but no where will you find any mention in the New Testament of God's dietary requirements (law) being changed or eliminated. [Revelation 16:13] John tells us that he still considers frogs to be "Unclean". This is more than 30 years after the resurrection. Peter says.....at least 6 years after the resurrection, [Acts 10:14] that nothing "Unclean" had ever entered his body! If [Revelation 18:2] were just figurative there would be no reason to link the words "bird" and "Unclean" together.....if all birds were now "Clean".

No, my FRiends.....the dietary Laws given to us by Our Lord are still in effect, much the same as the Ten Commandments, the Sabbaths and the Festivals as expressed in our owner's manual. These....also had nothing to do with "The Levitical Priesthood" which was added much later.

[Corinthians 3:7-11] 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly "behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance"; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious (Moses' Countenance), much more that which remaineth is glorious.

What.....exactly was done away with? "The glory of the countenance of Moses!"

How......exactly was it done away with? "Moses put a veil over his face!"

Let's go further: [12-14] KJV Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. "That which is abolished" is not a good translation. 2673. katargeo (kat-arg-eh'-o) (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively Useless is a better translation and read it as follows:

Young's Literal Translation: [7-14] and if the ministration of the death, in letters, engraved in stones, came in glory, so that the sons of Israel were not able to look stedfastly to the face of Moses, because of the glory of his face -- which was being made useless, 8 how shall the ministration of the Spirit not be more in glory? 9 for if the ministration of the condemnation is glory, much more doth the ministration of the righteousness abound in glory; 10 for also even that which hath been glorious, hath not been glorious -- in this respect, because of the superior glory; 11 for if that which is being made useless is through glory, much more that which is remaining is in glory. 12 Having, then, such hope, we use much freedom of speech, 13 and are not as Moses, who was putting a vail upon his own face, for the sons of Israel not stedfastly to look to the end of that which is being made useless, 14 but their minds were hardened, for unto this day the same vail at the reading of the Old Covenant doth remain unwithdrawn -- which in Christ is being made useless.

What is being made useless? The same veil covering the glory of the face of Moses!" Why was it useless to begin with? Because the Israelites had hardened (blinded) minds!"

These passages do not say that the Ten Commandments were Abolished, done away with, made useless or any other such "Tom Foolery" that one could construe from poor translations.

[I Corinthians 7:19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

[I Corinthians 14:37] If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

We just gotta start using our heads here folks. Why would the Apostle stipulate in the first letter that we must heed the commandments...... and then tell us in the second letter that they were done away with?

Here's the answer: [II Peter 3:15-16] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The Hebrew "Jot" is the smallest letter in the language and is recorded in the Hebrew texts over 66,000 times. It's called a "Yod" and in the Greek it is "IOTA", The "Tittle" is like the "Yod" in that it is not pronounced....it only signifies the usage of the word it accompanies. Our Lord told us that everything will stay in place until all has been fulfilled (come to pass). All what?

Prophecy! Many prophecies have been indeed fulfilled (come to pass), many by Our Lord Himself. Many have yet not....but will be fulfilled (come to pass) before the end.

An example of part of the Law that is still in force is the dietary restrictions. God has set in place restrictions on what we should....and should not consume. This is not so much mankind committing a horrible, eternally punishable sin but by consuming certain foods we are not enjoying a long healthful life that perhaps we could.....if God's food laws were obeyed. While in the flesh we must eat, and what we eat has a bearing on how we feel, how we age and what disease we may or may not avoid in the process. When all has been fulfilled (come to pass).....I'm not sure we'll be eating anything, but......until then......

"Law and prophets" indicates the whole law, including the Ten Commandments and sacrificial laws. You can't just limit "jot and tittle" to the Ten Commandments when you feel like it, so that you can have the Sabbath still in force. The expression, as Jesus used it, included the whole Law of Moses, including animal sacrifices, which you acknowledge have been abolished.

The KJV says that Our Lord says "I am not come to destroy but fulfill" then.....does an about face and says "not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Well....if He fulfilled it....then it could pass away....all or part of it! We actually have two conditions here for the law to pass away.....don't we.

Till Heaven and Earth pass away not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law. Our Lord has just said here that the law is as permanent as the Heaven and the Earth.

No, he is not saying that the law is as permanent as the Heaven and the Earth. You have misrepresented the double conditional in saying that "not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law." You ended your quotation with a period, leaving off the last clause, UNTIL ALL BE FULFILLED, which completely changes the meaning of the passage. The passage is simply saying that Jesus came to fulfill the whole law and that none of the law would be abolished until it was fulfilled. Or do you think that Jesus did not fulfill the law? Why did Jesus come? He came to fulfil the law and the prophets. Did he succeed in his mission to fulfil the law? Yes. What happens when Jesus fulfils the law and the prophets? Only then will the law be abolished.

Luke 24:44
"These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

That he is not just talking about prophecy is clearly indicated in the passage because he goes on to list on to list 6 laws that not the smallest jot or tittle will pass until it be fulfilled, two of which are in the Ten Commandments and the other four are not:

1. You shall not commit murder
2. You shall not commit adultery
3. Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce: Deut 24.
4. You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord. Lev 19:12
5. An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. Ex 21:24
6. You shall love your neighbor: Deut 23:3–6

Christ clearly did change the law and the prophets: Galations 3:23-24, and Hebrew 7:12 that you yourself have quoted, "For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also".

The Ten Commandments were given at Sinai. The Levitical Priesthood was introduced a year later [Exodus 40:17-19]. [Hebrews 9:1-10] [...]This First Covenant had nothing to do with the Ten Commandments.

Your distinction between the First Covenant and the Ten Commandments is entirely a product of your own imagination. It is not a distinction made from Scriptural language itself. In Scriptural parlance the terms are synonymous. They are interchangeable. As has been shown earlier on the thread, there are seven different terms that are used in Scripture as synonyms for the Ten Commandments. I let the Scriptural words themselves summarize exactly what Scripture itself says about the Ten Commandments, not the framework that you want to impose on them. The terms of the covenant that was made by God only with the nation of Israel at Mt Sinai are called the "Ten Commandments". "The Ten Commandments" are also called "The First Covenant". The actual "words of the Covenant" are the "Ten Commandments" as they are "written on Tables of Stone" with the finger of God. This covenant document is also called the "Old Covenant". It is also called the "Tables of Testimony", or just the "Testimony". The terms "Ten Commandments," "Tables of Stone," "Tables of Testimony," "Testimony," "Old Covenant," "First Covenant," "words of the covenant,"and "stone Tablets of the Covenant" are one and the same in the Scriptures. All eight terms mean exactly the same thing and they are all interchangeable with each other.

In the Scriptures, "the Law of God", "God's law", "the law" vs. "the Law of Moses", "Moses Law" are used interchangeably without distinction.

The Ten Commandments are called the Law of Moses.

Leviticus 27:34 These are the commandments which the Lord commanded Moses for the sons of Israel at Mount Sinai.
Numbers 36:13 These are the commandments and the ordinances which the Lord commanded
Deuteronomy 30:10 obey the Lord your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law.
Jesus defined the Commandments to include the Law of Moses:
Deuteronomy 5:1 The Ten commandments are called "My statures and all My ordinances"
Ezekiel 20:19-21 The weekly Sabbath is called "My statutes and all My ordinances"
Nehemiah 9:13-14 the weekly Sabbath is included without distinction: "right judgments, true laws, good statutes, commandments"
Leviticus 19:1-37 The Ten commandments and the ceremonial law are mixed together without distinction and called "My statures and all My ordinances"
Dueteronomy 5:1-6:25: Two whole chapters that deal exclusively with the Ten Commandments and the following 5 terms are used interchangeably without distinction: "statutes", "ordinances", "commandments", "judgments", "testimonies".
Ezekekiel 20 calls the first and fourth commandment, My statutes and My ordinances.

Scripture will not bend itself to your framework.

Deuteronomy 4:13
So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
Deuteronomy 9:9-11
When I went up into the mountains to receive the tablets of stone, even the tablets of the covenant which the Lord had made with you...and the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone written with the finger of God...the Lord gave me the two tablets of stone, even the tablets of the covenant.
Exodus 34:27,28
Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant- -the Ten Commandments.

How can you read the above verses and be honest with the words used and then deny that the Ten Commandments were the very "words" of a distinct and specific covenant?

The Ten Commandments preceded Sinai. They have been in effect since creation. I've seen many times folks prove this by listing these commands from the Book of Genesis alone! I'll show you these commandments from the Book of Job alone!

No one denies that nine of of the moral duties contained in the Ten Commandments were known by men and punished by God long before and after God gave them to Israel as a covenant at Sinai. Every specific duty commanded in the Ten Commandments except the fourth, or Sabbath, was punished before Mt Sinai, and likewise, every commandment except the fourth, is repeated in the NT Scriptures.

Commandment 4 "So they sat down with him on the ground seven days and seven nights, and no one spoke a word to him, for they saw that his grief was very great" [Job 2:13]. "Is there not a time of hard service for man on the earth" [Job 7:1]. "That the triumphing of the wicked is short...Because he knows no quietness in his heart" [Job 20:5,20]. "Now acquaint yourself with Him, and be at peace" [Job 22:21]. "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?" [Job 38:4].

To read a Sabbath into those verses from Job, much less a COMMAND to observe one is nothing but a severe case of imagination run riot. A hermeneutic like that, unconstrained by any principle or anything in the text itself is no hermeneutic at all.

Cordially,

[Hebrews 8:13]

[Hebrews 8] 1 And the sum concerning the things spoken of is: we have such a chief priest, who did sit down at the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens, 2 of the holy places a servant, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord did set up, and not man, 3 for every chief priest to offer both gifts and sacrifices is appointed, whence it is necessary for this one to have also something that he may offer; 4 for if, indeed, he were upon earth, he would not be a priest -- (there being the priests who are offering according to the law, the gifts, 5 who unto an example and shadow do serve of the heavenly things, as Moses hath been divinely warned, being about to construct the tabernacle, for 'See (saith He) thou mayest make all things according to the pattern that was shewn to thee in the mount;') -- 6 and now he hath obtained a more excellent service, how much also of a better covenant is he mediator, which on better promises hath been sanctioned, 7 for if that first were faultless, a place would not have been sought for a second. 8 For finding fault, He saith to them, 'Lo, days come, saith the Lord, and I will complete with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, a new covenant, 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day of My taking them by their hand, to bring them out of the land of Egypt -- because they did not remain in My covenant, and I did not regard them, saith the Lord, -- 10 because this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, after those days, saith the Lord, giving My laws into their mind, and upon their hearts I will write them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me for a people; 11 and they shall not teach each his neighbour, and each his brother, saying, Know thou the Lord, because they shall all know Me from the small one of them unto the great one of them, 12 because I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawlessnesses I will remember no more;' -- 13 in the saying 'new,' He hath made the first old, and what doth become obsolete and is old is nigh disappearing.

I've underlined your scripture but decided to include the entire chapter so we could see exactly what is was that Paul was referring to....... as the Old Covenant. Especially, since he goes on to define the first Covenant in the next Chapter:

[Hebrews 9:1-10] 1 It had, indeed, then (even the first tabernacle) ordinances of service, also a worldly sanctuary, 2 for a tabernacle was prepared, the first, in which was both the lamp-stand, and the table, and the bread of the presence -- which is called 'Holy;' 3 and after the second vail a tabernacle that is called 'Holy of holies,' 4 having a golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid all round about with gold, in which is the golden pot having the manna, and the rod of Aaron that budded, and the tables of the covenant, 5 and over it cherubim of the glory, overshadowing the mercy-seat, concerning which we are not now to speak particularly. 6 And these things having been thus prepared, into the first tabernacle, indeed, at all times the priests do go in, performing the services, 7 and into the second, once in the year, only the chief priest, not apart from blood, which he doth offer for himself and the errors of the people, 8 the Holy Spirit this evidencing that not yet hath been manifested the way of the holy places, the first tabernacle having yet a standing; 9 which is a simile in regard to the present time, in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered, which are not able, in regard to conscience, to make perfect him who is serving, 10 only in victuals, and drinks, and different baptisms, and fleshly ordinances -- till the time of reformation imposed upon them.

Some teach that the Old Covenant was the Ten Commandments but as we can see here by the words of Paul the Old Covenant had a Tabernacle, ordinances of service and a sanctuary. They would also teach that the Ten Commandments have been done away with, but according to Paul.....the things that were done away with were the ordinances of the Levitical Priesthood, the special washings and the animal sacrifices.

Paul says here: [Hebrews 10:16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, giving My laws on their hearts, and upon their minds I will write them.

Now.....what would be the law that would be written on our Hearts and minds?

That law, of course is the same law that was given at Sinai....the Ten Commandments. The law remained the same but the covenant changed.....because: [Hebrews 10:4] for it is impossible for blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

I've underlined your scripture but decided to include the entire chapter so we could see exactly what is was that Paul was referring to....... as the Old Covenant. Especially, since he goes on to define the first Covenant in the next Chapter:

[Hebrews 9:1-10] [...]

Apparently you have not observed, even from the passage that you quoted, that both the Old and the New Testament use the word "covenant" when referring to the Ten Commandments:

Hebrews 9:4
⁴having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant.

To treat the statement that "the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary." (Hebrew 9:1) as if it were a comprehensive, exclusive definition of the old covenant does not even make sense, besides being contrary to Scriptural terminology and usage.

Some teach that the Old Covenant was the Ten Commandments but as we can see here by the words of Paul the Old Covenant had a Tabernacle, ordinances of service and a sanctuary. They would also teach that the Ten Commandments have been done away with, but according to Paul.....the things that were done away with were the ordinances of the Levitical Priesthood, the special washings and the animal sacrifices.

Paul nowhere limits what was done away with to he ordinances of the Levitical Priesthood, the special washings and the animal sacrifices. This distinction is entirely a figment of your imagination. In fact, he explicitly says otherwise here in Hebrew 9:4 with, "the tablets of the covenant"; and he says in Corinthians that whatever was written on the table of stone was what was done away with. You claim is contradicted by Paul. If the the things that were done away with were the ordinances of the Levitical Priesthood, the special washings and the animal sacrifices then so were the tablets of the covenant.

Moreover, in the same chapter you quote, Hebrews 9, Paul compares the Covenants to a last will and testament:

¹⁶In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, ¹⁷because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. ¹⁸This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. ¹⁹When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. ²⁰He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep." ²¹In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. ²²In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Your claims are like that of a person who comes into Probate Court with will that has been subsequently revoked by another codicil, but still insisting that the Court administer the estate under the old codicil. It isn't going to happen, my FRiend. The old will is not in force. It will not be admitted to Probate, and it will not be administered.

You cannot escape or overcome the fact that both the Old and New Testament use the word "covenant" when referring to the Ten Commandments:

Cordially,

[Corinthians 3:7-11] 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly "behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance"; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious (Moses' Countenance), much more that which remaineth is glorious.

What.....exactly was done away with? "The glory of the countenance of Moses!"

How......exactly was it done away with? "Moses put a veil over his face!"

I highlight in blue what you ignore; namely, that the Ten Commandments are called a "ministration of death", and, that it was glorious, not just the face of Moses. The ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious. You should notice that it is not just the glory that was done away, but that which was glorious, being surpassed by the greater glory of the New Covenant. "For if that which is done away (2673) was glorious..." This is the Old Covenant, the Ten Commandments, written and engraved on stones, the "tablets of the covenant". Verse 11: "And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!"

It is absurd to suppose that Paul's intention in this whole passage was not to contrast the the Ten Commandments, the "ministration of death", that which was written and engraved on stones with the Gospel, but merely to contrast Moses' literal face with the gospel, as if the type were the significant thing rather than the thing typified. What was it, Diego1618, that was written and engraved on those stones? Will you answer that? It seems rather obvious that the fading glory of Moses' countenance typified the fading glory of the Old Covenant (Tables of the Covenant, remember?) which, despite all its excellence, had no glory that could be compared with that of the Gospel which is permanent.

Let's go further: [12-14] KJV Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. "That which is abolished" is not a good translation. 2673. katargeo (kat-arg-eh'-o) (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively Useless is a better translation and read it as follows:

Young's Literal Translation: [7-14] and if the ministration of the death, in letters, engraved in stones, came in glory, so that the sons of Israel were not able to look stedfastly to the face of Moses, because of the glory of his face -- which was being made useless, 8 how shall the ministration of the Spirit not be more in glory? 9 for if the ministration of the condemnation is glory, much more doth the ministration of the righteousness abound in glory; 10 for also even that which hath been glorious, hath not been glorious -- in this respect, because of the superior glory; 11 for if that which is being made useless is through glory, much more that which is remaining is in glory. 12 Having, then, such hope, we use much freedom of speech, 13 and are not as Moses, who was putting a vail upon his own face, for the sons of Israel not stedfastly to look to the end of that which is being made useless, 14 but their minds were hardened, for unto this day the same vail at the reading of the Old Covenant doth remain unwithdrawn -- which in Christ is being made useless.

What is being made useless? The same veil covering the glory of the face of Moses!" Why was it useless to begin with? Because the Israelites had hardened (blinded) minds!"

The New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 2673 katargeÑw

Original Word Word Origin

katargeÑw from (2596) and (691)

Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling

Katargeo kat-arg-eh'-o

Parts of Speech TDNT

Verb 1:452,76

Definition

to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative

to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
to deprive of force, influence, power

to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish

to cease, to pass away, be done away
to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
to terminate all intercourse with one

Translated Words

KJV (27) - abolish, 3; cease, 1; cumber, 1; deliver, 1; destroy, 5; do away, 3; fall, 1; loose, 1; misc, 11;
NAS (27) - abolished, 4; abolishing, 1; bring to an end, 1; did away, 1; do away, 1; done away, 4; fades away, 1; fading, 1; fading away, 1; nullified, 1; nullify, 4; passing away, 1; released, 2; removed, 1; render powerless, 1; severed, 1; use, 1;

The same word that you agree applies to what you call the ordinances of the Levitical Priesthood, the special washings and the animal sacrifices, is applied four times here in 2 Cor 3:7,11,13,14, as you have underlined, but the same word is also used twice in Romans 7:2,6 and specifically applied there to the Ten Commandment law, "you shall not covet" It is the same word that is used in Ephesians 2:15; "...by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances."

Which is exactly what Paul is talking about in II Corinthians 3:7-14 with his reference to the Ten Commandments, the "ministration of death", that which was written and engraved on stones, and not merely the "uselessness" of the veil covering the glory of the face of Moses as you would have us suppose.

Cordially,

Apparently you have not observed, even from the passage that you quoted, that both the Old and the New Testament use the word "covenant" when referring to the Ten Commandments:

Covenant

Every time The Lord made a contract with His children (If they would do this.....He would do that) The Holy Spirit inspired the writers of scripture to call it a "Covenant".

To treat the statement that "the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary." (Hebrew 9:1) as if it were a comprehensive, exclusive definition of the old covenant does not even make sense, besides being contrary to Scriptural terminology and usage.

It was a comprehensive, exclusive definition of the Old Covenant that was done away with....i.e. replaced by Our Lord's sacrifice. I think the Apostle's exact words were: [Hebrews 10:4] "For it is impossible for blood of bulls and goats to take away sins."

There is but one scripture that uses the expression, "Nailed it to the cross" [Colossians 2:13-14] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

What does this not say? It does not say The Ten Commandments have been nailed to the cross. It says....the handwriting of ordinances have been nailed to the cross. What are these ordinances?

But first, let's look at [Revelation 22:14] 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Since the only folks that are allowed to enter His city are those that do His commandments, obviously the Commandments could not be contrary to us.....could they? They also could not possibly be the handwriting of ordinances Paul speaks of.....that were against us.....could they?

So....if it wasn't the Ten Commandments that was nailed to the cross.....what was it? Let's look again at what is actually said in Colossians: "Blotting out (wiping out) the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." The "handwriting of ordinances, also called "handwriting of requirements" is a legal Greek term that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker was required to pay. It did not signify the law to be obeyed....only the penalty to be paid. When Our Lord was sacrificed that penalty was paid in full....wiped out.

Here is what "Matthew Henry's Commentary" has to say on the subject: Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14), which may be understood. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin. This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.)

The Greek word used for "Blotted out" or in some translations "Wiped out" is EXALEIPHO and it means....to smear out; obiterate; (erase tears, figuratively, pardon sin). In other words....it has to do with wiping away sins as in [Acts 3:19] Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

It is the sin that is to be blotted out and its related penalties....not the Law of God. Sin is lawlessness [John 3:4-5] and Paul says in [Romans 6:1-2] 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

The New Testament makes it very clear that the Law of God would continue.....thus it was not nailed to the cross. But on the other hand, the Levitical priesthood was "Blotted Out" with all its requirements which were the penalty for sin [Hebrews 9:1-10].....because the blood of bulls and goats do not take away sin..............

Our Lord's sacrifice was and is sufficient........ and animal sacrifice is no longer required.

I'm sorry my FRiend for taking so long to get back. I got involved in another thread for a few days.....you know how that goes. I saw someone write in a thread somewhere a while back that communicating on FRee Republic is almost like two people sitting in different boxcars on two approaching trains and attempting to pass each other a note as the trains converge......LOL.

Covenant

Every time The Lord made a contract with His children (If they would do this.....He would do that) The Holy Spirit inspired the writers of scripture to call it a "Covenant". [emphasis mine]

Thank you for the concordance link.

Your characterization of the Old Covenant is lacking. There are many significant differences between a contract and a covenant, particularly in this case where the covenant is not between men and men, but is one made by God with men. One of the major differences is that the latter is not a mutual agreement between independent contracting parties of equal position:

COVENANT, IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
1. Essential Idea:
As already noted, the idea of covenants between God and men doubtless arose from the idea of covenants between men. Hence, the general thought is similar. It cannot in this case, however, be an agreement between contracting parties who stand on an equality, but God, the superior, always takes the initiative. To some extent, however, varying in different cases, is regarded as a mutual agreement; God with His commands makes certain promises, and men agree to keep the commands, or, at any rate, the promises are conditioned on human obedience. In general, the covenant of God with men is a Divine ordinance, with signs and pledges on God's part, and with promises for human obedience and penalties for disobedience, which ordinance is accepted by men. In one passage (Psalms 25:14), it is used in a more general way of an alliance of friendship between God and man.

And Fausset's Bible Dictionary (Covenant) has this:

[...]"Covenant" in the strict sense, as requiring two independent contracting parties, cannot apply to a covenant between God and man. His covenant must be essentially one of gratuitous promise, an act of pure grace on His part (Galatians 3:15, etc.). So in Psalm 89:28 "covenant" is explained by the parallel word "mercy." So God's covenant not to destroy the earth again by water (Genesis 9; Jeremiah 33:20). But the covenant, on God's part gratuitous, requires man's acceptance of and obedience to it, as the consequence of His grace experienced, and the end which He designs to His glory, not that it is the meritorious condition of it. The Septuagint renders berit by diatheekee (not suntheekee, "a mutual compact"), i.e. a gracious disposal by His own sovereign will. So Luke 22:29, "I appoint (diatithemai, cognate to diatheekee, by testamentary or gratuitous disposition) unto you a kingdom." [...]

It was a comprehensive, exclusive definition of the Old Covenant that was done away with....i.e. replaced by Our Lord's sacrifice. I think the Apostle's exact words were: [Hebrews 10:4] "For it is impossible for blood of bulls and goats to take away sins."

You put the sacrifices as a part for the whole, but Scripture does not. Scripture never does that, but REPEATEDLY puts the Ten Commandments as the part for the whole, for the simple reason that the Ten Commandments were the Covenant document. I have repeatedly proved here that the Ten Commandments constituted the Old Covenant; the Old Covenant is actually in Scripture a synonym for the Ten Commandments, the Covenant document that represents the entire law of Moses as a singular undivided unit. Paul as well treats "covenant" and "law" as synonymous, showing that the law was the covenant.

Both the Old and the New Testament use the word "covenant" when referring to the Ten Commandments, so any attempt to separate the laws of sacrifice and the Levitical priesthood from the rest of the one law that God gave to Moses, mischaracterizizing those as constituting the entire Old Covenant that was done away with is completely unjustified, unscripural and false. Scripture never instructs you to separate the Ten Commandments from the rest of the Old Covenant. Scripture itself NEVER does such a thing. The entire Law of the Old Covenant is ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE in Scripture treated as a single unit. The Jews did not treat the law of Moses the way you do. The Lord Jesus Christ did not treat the law of Moses the way you do, and neither does the rest of Scripture. The "Ten Commandments", (NOT "the animal sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood") are called "the covenant," that was given at Sinai or Horeb.

The Old Covenant was a package deal. It was the whole ball of wax for Israel, in the same way that a last will and testament is. "The law" includes the whole Mosaic law. Look at the term "law," in any Bible concordance, or in any Bible lexicon or encyclopedia. Here's a sample from Smith's Bible Dictionary:
Law

The word is properly used, in Scripture as elsewhere, to express a definite commandment laid down by any recognized authority; but when the word is used with the article, and without any words of limitation, it refers to the expressed will to God, and in nine cases out of ten to the Mosaic law, or to the Pentateuch of which it forms the chief portion. The Hebrew word torah (law) lays more stress on its moral authority, as teaching the truth and guiding in the right way; the Greek nomos (law), on its constraining power as imposed and enforced by a recognized authority. The sense of the word, however, extends its scope and assumes a more abstracts character in the writings of St. Paul. Nomos , when used by him with the article, still refers in general to the law of Moses; but when used without the article, so as to embrace any manifestation of "law," it includes all powers which act on the will of man by compulsion, or by the pressure of external motives, whether their commands be or be not expressed in definite forms. The occasional use of the word "law" (as in (Romans 3:27) "law of faith") to denote an internal principle of action does not really mitigate against the general rule. It should also be noticed that the title "the Law" is occasionally used loosely to refer to the whole of the Old Testament, as in (John 10:34) referring to (Psalms 82:6) in (John 15:25) referring to (Psalms 35:19) and in (1 Corinthians 14:21) referring to (Isaiah 28:11,12)

So, as has been previously proved on this thread, "the law of God" was not simply the Ten Commandments, but the whole law of Moses. Not only that, but "the Law" was given by Moses and the "Law of Moses" included the Ten Commandments, so if you want to keep a part of that law, then as as Paul says in Galatians, you bring yourself under obligation to "keep the whole law."

There is but one scripture that uses the expression, "Nailed it to the cross" [Colossians 2:13-14] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us., and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
[color emphasis mine]

1. Who is the "us" referred to there (in blue), and what is the tense of the verb (in red)?

What does this not say? It does not say The Ten Commandments have been nailed to the cross. It says....the handwriting of ordinances have been nailed to the cross. What are these ordinances?

What are these ordinances? Glad you asked. The Ten Commandments themselves are referred to in the Old Testament so many times as "statutes", "ordinances" and "decrees", interchangeably, and without any distinction to or from any other of God's statutes, ordinances and decrees, that it's useless to try to deny it. Your severing of the law of Moses into pieces is nothing but a product of your imagination. Sorry to put it so bluntly, but your dissection is actually antithetical to the way Scripture uses the words.

But first, let's look at [Revelation 22:14] 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Since the only folks that are allowed to enter His city are those that do His commandments, obviously the Commandments could not be contrary to us.....could they? They also could not possibly be the handwriting of ordinances Paul speaks of.....that were against us.....could they?

So....if it wasn't the Ten Commandments that was nailed to the cross.....what was it?

Once again you are engaged in circular reasoning, assuming the very thing you need to prove; namely, that the commandments referred to by John in Revelation are the Ten Commandments. I cannot find in all John's writings, that he ever in a single case uses the word "commandments," to refer to the Ten Commandments; but I do find that nearly in every case, if not all, he uses the word to refer to the commandments of Jesus. For example, John 14:15,21; 15:10; 1 John 2:1-5; 3:22-24; 4:21; 5:1-3. There is nothing in Revelation 22:14. that indicates otherwise.

Cordially,

[Hebrews 7:11-12] 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Where does this say that the Ten Commandments are eliminated?

Once again you are engaged in circular reasoning, assuming the very thing you need to prove; namely, that the commandments referred to by John in Revelation are the Ten Commandments. I cannot find in all John's writings, that he ever in a single case uses the word "commandments," to refer to the Ten Commandments.

[I John 3:4] 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. What law is the Apostle referring to here? It's obviously a part of God's law that is still in force during the first century.

[I John 3:21-22] 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

[I John 5:2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

[I John 5:3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

[Revelation 12:17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

[Revelation 14:12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Now.....I've just stayed in John's writings because that was your stipulation. Don't you think the above verses qualify as the Ten Commandments? There, of course are many more examples throughout the New Testament.

I have repeatedly proved here that the Ten Commandments constituted the Old Covenant; the Old Covenant is actually in Scripture a synonym for the Ten Commandments, the Covenant document that represents the entire law of Moses as a singular undivided unit.

I'm sorry....you have not done this except in your own mind's eye.

The Levites decided to go with God and that why The Lord made them His priests [Exodus 32:25-29]. Understand that the Levitical sacrifices were not part of the original law that God wanted obeyed [Jeremiah 7:22-26].....they were added later because of the sins of the people [Galatians 3:19]. Paul says that the first Covenant was made obsolete by the new covenant [Hebrews 8:13] and then goes on to explain in the very next 10 verses what that first covenant was. Then in the very next 18 verses specifically pinpoints the Levitical sacrifices as the first covenant......that was changed.

Although Our Lord knew He would put an end to animal sacrifice it would be very strange for Him to spend any time teaching the Ten Commandments if His purpose was to have them done away with also.......don't you think?

Commandment 1 "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10). "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and the great commandment" (Matthew 22:37). "And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment" (Mark 12:30). "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Luke 4:8).

Commandment 2 "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10). "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Luke 4:8). "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:24). "But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam...to eat things sacrificed to idols" (Revelation 2:14). "Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, because you allow...My servants to...eat things sacrificed to idols" (Revelation 2:20).

Commandment 3 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men" (Matthew 12:31). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts,...blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man" (Matthew 15:19-20).

Commandment 4 "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath" (Matthew 12:11-12). "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath" (Matthew 24:20); there would be no reason to pray this if the Sabbath was not going to be in existence. "And He said to them, 'The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath'" (Mark 2:27); this verse tells all who will see which day is the Lord's Day. "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue" (Mark 6:2). "And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read" (Luke 4:16). "Then He went down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and was teaching them on the Sabbaths" (Luke 4:31). "The Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath...Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy?" (Luke 6:5,9). "But the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath...The Lord then answered him and said, 'Hypocrite...So ought not this woman...be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?'" (Luke (13:14-16). "'Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?'...And they could not answer Him regarding these things" (Luke 14:3,6). "are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?" (John 7:23).

Commandment 5 "For God commanded saying, 'Honor your father and your mother' and 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death'" (Matthew 15:4). "Honor your father and your mother" (Matthew 19:19). "Honor your father and your mother" (Mark 7:10). "Honor your father and your mother" (Mark 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Honor your father and your mother" (Luke 18:20).

Commandment 6 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder', and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment" (Matthew 5:21-22). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders...These are the things which defile a man" (Matthew 15:19-20). "You shall not murder" (Matthew 19:18). "...murders...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mark 7:21,23). "Do not murder" (Mark 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Do not murder" (Luke 18:20).

Commandment 7 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery'. But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:27-28). "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...adulteries, fornications...These are the things which defile a man" (Matthew 15:19-20). "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery, and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9). "You shall not commit adultery" (Matthew 19:18). "...adulteries, fornications...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mark 7:21,23). "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery" (Mark 10:11-12). "Do not commit adultery" (Mark 10:19). "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery" (Luke 16:18). "You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery" (Luke 18:20). "'Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery'...And Jesus said to her...'sin no more'" (John 8:4,11). "Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation" (Revelation 2:22).

Commandment 8 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...thefts...These are the things which defile a man" (Matthew 15:19-20). "You shall not steal" (Matthew 19:18). "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer', but you have made it a den of thieves" (Matthew 21:13). "...thefts...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mark 7:22-23). "Do not steal" (Mark 10:19). "You know the commandments:... Do not steal" (Luke 18:20).

Commandment 9 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord. But I say to you, do not swear at all" (Matthew 5:33-34). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...false witness...These are the things which defile a man" (Matthew 15:19-20). "You shall not bear false witness" (Matthew 19:18). "Do not bear false witness" (Mark 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Do not bear false witness" (Luke 18:20). "And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars" (Revelation 2:2).

Commandment 10 "Do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on" (Matthew 6:25). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...These are the things which defile a man" (Matthew 15:19-20). "...covetousness...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mark 7:22-23).

Here are the Ten Commandments in effect long before Mount Sinai:

Commandment 1: "I am the LORD, who brought you out of Ur" (Gen 15:7); "I am Almighty God, walk before me and be blameless" (Gen 17:1); "I am the God of your father--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" (Ex 3:6). "Put away the foreign gods that are among you, purify yourselves" (Gen 35:2). "and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD" (Ex 12:12). "Now I know that the LORD is greater than all the gods; for in the very thing in which they behaved proudly, He was above them" (Ex 18:11). "This also would be an iniquity deserving of judgement, for I would have denied God who is above" (Job 31:28). "Then Job answered the LORD and said, 'I know that you can do everything, And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from you'" (Job 42:1-2).

Commandment 2: "'Put away the foreign gods that are among you, purify yourselves'...So they gave Jacob all the foreign gods which were in their hands, and the earrings which were in their ears and Jacob hid them" (Gen 35:2,4). "If I have observed the sun when it shines, or the moon moving in its brightness, so that my heart has been secretly enticed, and my mouth has kissed my hand; This also would be an iniquity deserving of judgement, For I would have denied God who is above" (Job 31:27-28) (note this is believed to be part of idol worship).

Commandment 3: "It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts" (Job 1:5). "Curse God and die!" (Job 2:9). Interestingly, those called of God are not to be cursed either, "And I will curse him who curses you" (Gen 12:3).

Commandment 4: "And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made" (Gen 2:2-3). "Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD...So the people rested on the seventh day" (Ex 16:23,30). "The Sabbath was made for man" (Mar 2:27).

Commandment 5: "Adam, the son of God" (Luk 3:38), "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat it of it": Cursed is the ground for your sake" (Gen 3:17). Notice that later a blessing of land is promised for those who obey this commandment (Ex 20:12; Deut 5:16).

Commandment 6: "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning" (Joh 8:44) (since the devil was a murderer from the beginning it seems clear that murder was not allowed before Mount Sinai). "Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him...And He said, 'The voice of your brother's blood cries out to Me from the ground. So now you are cursed from the earth" (Gen 4:8,10). "Then the king of Egypt spoke...'When you do the duties of a midwife for the Hebrew women, and see them on the birthstools, if it is a son, then you shall kill him'...But the midwives feared God, and did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them" (Ex 1:15-17). "The murderer rises with the light; He kills the poor and needy" (Job 24:14).

Commandment 7: "his master's wife cast longing eyes on Joseph, and she said, 'Lie with me.' But he refused...'How then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?'" (Gen 39:7-9). "The eye of the adulterer waits for the twilight, saying, 'No one will see me'; and he disguises his face" (Job 24:15). Job, a married man, said, "I have made a covenant with my eyes; Why then should I look upon a young woman?" (Job 31:1).

Commandment 8: "So my righteousness will answer for me...everyone that is not speckled and spotted among the goats, and brown among the lambs, will be considered stolen, if it is with me" (Gen 30:33). "'With whomever you find your gods, do not let him live. In the presence of our brethren identify what I have of yours and take it with you.' For Jacob did not know that Rachel had stolen them" (Gen 31:32). "How then could we steal silver or gold from your lord's house. With whomever of your servants it is found, let him die" (Gen 44:8-9). "He kills the poor and needy; And in the night he is like a thief" (Job 24:14).

Commandment 9: "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it " (Joh 8:44). "Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die"...The woman said, 'The serpent deceived me, and I ate'. So the LORD God said to the serpent: 'Because you have done this, You are cursed'"(Gen 3:4,13-14). "But you forgers of lies, You are all worthless physicians" (Job 13:4). "Now if it is not so, who will prove me a liar, And make my speech worth nothing?" (Job 24:25). "My lips will not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit" (Job 27:4). "Should I lie concerning my right?" (Job 34:6). "For truly my words are not false" (Job 36:4).

Commandment 10: "So when the woman saw...a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate" (Gen 3:6). "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Gen 6:5); because this law in effect God decided to destroy humankind with the flood (Gen 6:7). "The enemy has said, "My desire (AV "lust") shall be satisfied on them" (Ex 15:9). "Moreover you shall select from all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness" (Ex 18:21). "I have made a covenant with my eyes; Why then should I look upon a young woman?" (Job 31:1). "If my heart has been enticed by a woman, or if I have lurked at my neighbors door, then let my wife grind for another, and let others bow down over her. For that would be wickedness; yes it would be deserving of judgement" (Job 31:9-11)

The Ten Commandments were in effect prior to Moses and Sinai and are still in effect today. They are eternal.

Remarkable, seems that even after Christ, His commandments are to be placed subordinate to the 10 commandments, even though scripture is clear that His teachings and death altered our relationship with them - as well as their structure. Seems the Law of Moses is very flexable - stop sacrifices, yet when it comes to Jesus being our sabbath rest, we are told He isn’t.